Struggling with decisions

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by litbitblack, Jan 27, 2017.

  1. litbitblack

    litbitblack New Member

    my 21 yr old daughter is currently in jail and has been since July 2016 on numerous charges. Deadly conduct, pocs,obstruction, retaliation - 18 total charges all picked up in a year. She got mixed up in drugs, was dealing and roaming the streets and I had to call the police on her as she tried to run with her daughter because she was on the most wanted list for deadly conduct. Well now she has finally reached a deal with the da office- get this - 15 yrs probation. On 5 felonies. I don't even see how that is possible. My struggle is I believe she hasn't been in long enough.she has a 4 yr old that has lived with me the last two yrs and I took her and the dad to court for custody as he has been in and out of jail as well. She has asked in the past to live with me and my other two kids feel she should. I don't. My grand daughter doesn't cry for her anymore when ever mom is mentioned. She has adapted. I don't feel like I should have to put up or be stressed about her stealing my things like she has in the past. Or bringing people that shouldn't be there to my house. Or taking her daughter places she shouldn't be. She blames me for how she is. Blames her childhood and that I worked all the time and wasn't there to take care of her. What she doesn't realize is that when I wasn't working I was there.
    Now the struggling part.
    Giving her probation feels like it is settinfb her up for failure. She was on the news here in town numerous times. She grew up here. The people she needs to stay away from are here. She didn't even succeed with juvenile probation the numerous times she was on it. How can I not try to give her a chance? That is my struggle. Any advice
    Words of wisdom?
    The deal hasn't went in front of the judge yet. The boyfriend she was involved with in relation to the deadly conduct charge received 9 yrs and only had 9 charges of varying degrees. She has 18...
  2. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    Welcome litbitblack,

    I'm so sorry for what you are going though but am so glad you found us here.

    This is very typical mindset of a difficult adult child. Even if you didn't work and were a stay at home mom, she would still blame you. It's easier for these adult kids to blame us the parents, that way they don't have to own the choices they have made.
    Do not buy into this. You are not at fault for the choices she has made.

    It's always easy for those who don't really have a clue to tell us that we should help our adult difficult children, give them money, let them live with us, give them a car, etc.........
    Just because others, even family members think you should let her move in with you doesn't mean you are obligated to.
    My main concern is for your 4 year old granddaughter. You have afforded this child two years of stability and she has adjusted. To have your daughter in her life on a daily basis could prove disastrous.

    One of the biggest challenges when we allow our adult child to live with us is setting and holding clear boundaries. Clear boundaries also have to have consequences.
    Little Johnny or Little Susie move back home and for the first week or two they are on their best behavior. We start to let our guard down, then WHAM they revert back into being a difficult child. Arguing, lying, showing no respect for you, your home, your rules. Now you are left with the choice - continue to put up with it or liberate them from your home.
    Another problem that can arise is getting them out of your home. Sometimes you have to file eviction papers.

    You know your daughter better than anyone. You are the best judge of how it will play out if you do let her live with you.
    If you do not want her to live with you that's okay. There is nothing to feel guilty about if that is your choice. Don't allow what others think you should do to bully you into doing something you don't want to.

    You have done a selfless act in getting custody of your grand daughter. It would be my guess that had you not stepped in your grand daughter would be in foster care. This is the most loving thing you could have done for your daughter and for her to ask for anything else from you is too much, in my humble opinion.

    The times my son has been released from jail, there has always been a half way house he could go to. It's not the greatest but it gives them a place to start.

    Bottom line, your daughter, my son and all the other difficult adult children have to make the choice to turn their own lives around. We cannot do it for them.

    Whatever you decide make sure it's what you want. Do what is best for you and your granddaughter.

    ((HUGS)) to you..................
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  3. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Hi and Welcome to the group. This truly is a soft place to land. Each of us gives advice based on our own point of view and we understand TOTALLY that you will only use the advice that you feel is right for you at the time. No one here will judge you or blame you, not EVER!

    I would not allow her to move in with you. Yes she is young, but she is an adult. You have younger children and you have her child. THEY are the priority, not her. She gave up the right to be the top priority when she gave birth to a child. Her child is the priority and right now, her child needs stability and safety. Letting a drug addict who deals and runs the street back into the house is just not a wise thing to do. If this was a stranger you would NEVER EVER allow them to come into your home to rent a room with your children and grandchildren, much less yourself. Especially not with that record! Just because it is your daughter doesn't mean her record is any less scary or dangerous.

    So what if the family thinks she should live with you? Why don't all those people with opinions open up their homes and let her live with them? Oh, yeah, because that would mean that they had to deal with her and not just run their mouths. It is really really easy to tell someone that they should let a drug using, drug dealing violent felon live in their home with their children, but it is a whole different thing when it is YOUR home, isn't it?

    I know you love your daughter with all your heart. I also know you are angry with her on some levels. She blames you for everything because that is easy. She isn't ready to be clean and sober or to take responsiblity for her life and her choices. Until she is, she may blame you. That is HER PROBLEM.

    Did you ever wake up and ask yourself how you could mess your daughter up the most that day? How you could cause her the most problems and make her the most miserable? I am willing to bet my income that you NEVER did that. So you are NOT to blame for her problems. You did the absolute best you could, and that is all you can do. Sure you made mistakes. You are human. She made mistakes too. Who is her daughter going to blame when she grows up? Was she doing the best she could for her daughter when she was out dealing drugs and running the streets? No, she wasn't and she knows it. She blames you because that is the easy way out and she knows you will love her anyway.

    But you can love her and not put up with her garbage, her nonsense, her bull excrement. You can love her and set boundaries and maintain them. There is absolutely zero reason to sacrifice your granddaughter's well being on the altar of what your daughter wants. It absolutely is NOT best for your granddaughter to have her mom back in the house right away, not with charges like that. Your daughter needs to spend a year or maybe two PROVING she can live right before she earns the PRIVILEGE of living with her daughter. She needs to be drug free, earning a good living doing a straight job, and she needs to be going to meetings and doing all that her PO demands of her and getting along with the family. Until then, her time with her daughter needs to be short and supervised.

    I would not give her money or much help. The help she is getting is called supporting ehr daughter. It is what it is, and the more money you give her, the more help you give her, the more she will have to go get into trouble.

    Have you gotten any help or support? Alanon and Narcanon are great for families of addicts/alcoholics. Addiction truly is a family disease and until the family gets help, it is passed from one generation to the next. Alanon is a great way to not only learn to set boundaries with your daughter but also learn to not pass along issues to your granddaughter. Alanon/Narcanon meetings also provide support and people who will help you set and maintain boundaries that you think are sane rather than just what your family thinks you should do because it is easiest for them. Sometimes as a parent you have to be tough and make your kids grow up and face the conseqeunces of their actions, but your other kids especially don't see that or like it. They can be hard on you if you do that or if you put someone else's needs first, like your granddaughter's needs first. Meetings are usually pretty easy to find. If you go to one and don't like it, please don't just quit. Go to meetings in different places and at different times in the same places because each meeting has a different dynamic and you may need to try several to find the one that is right for you.

    It also might help to see a therapist, someone to talk to as you go through all of this. I don't know where you work, but many jobs have what is called an Employee Assistance Program, or EAP. It is usually listed in the HR part of the Employee Manual. Most EAPs give you a few sessions with a therapist for free to work out a problem. Even if you don't have one of these, it is a good idea to have someone you can talk to and get an objective point of view and an unbiased opinion.

    I am sorry that you are going through all of this. I hope that you are able to enjoy your day with your granddaughter and take some time just to have a cup of coffee or tea and relax.
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    There is no way I would allow her to live with me and granddaughter again. Ever. She is an adult drug addict who has not gotten help and has made horrible choices. She's young but most young adults her age are in college, working full time or serving our country, not in jail. She isn't fit to raise that four year old and giving her another chance is the same as throwing your granddaughter to the dogs.

    Who cares what anyone else says? Don't talk to them. THEY can take her in if they feel so generous.

    Pick your granddaughter. Your daughter needs years of sobriety and therapy before she MAY be able to be trusted. She can choose to get help and use government resources in the meantime. in my opinion it is sane not to bring her back and insane to do so. Your grand may never recover if she had to deal with the mother again. What if mom takes her somewhere unsafe and she is raped? She is a baby. She needs protection.

    Your family is being illogical. Perhaps you need to detach from them and their toxic advice.
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    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
  5. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member


    I agree with the rest. To me, your other kids do not get a vote. You are the mother, the parent. They will get to vote when they have their own families and households. Second, the deal she got is between the Court and she. Your role gives you rights to make decisions over your home, yourself, and younger children for whom you are responsible. You are doing that. Particularly with respect to protecting those for whom you are responsible from more tumult, danger, the effects of uncaring and poor choices, and bad conduct.

    All of her lifestyle and choices accrue to her, as does her success or failure. The obstacles she faces to her reputation, etc. are par of the fabric of her life. How are you or she different? We have to deal with what has come before. Except for many of us we were not responsible, if we were neglected or traumatized. She was neither. She decided and she suffered. That is what is real life. You cannot take that away from her.

    There are so many options she has that are good--if she chooses them. She can go to Job Corps. She can go to college or learn a trade. She can decide she wants to kick her addiction. She is off to a rocky start but she can right herself. If she chooses.

    Like the others I would dismiss what she says: she is manipulating and self-serving. She is trying to share the culpability and responsibility of her own acts with you. I would not tolerate this happening. I would not welcome or encourage contact if she chooses to continue this form of treatment towards you.

    Have you considered an Al Anon meeting? We are glad you are here. Take care. You are not alone.
  6. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I wanted to say one more thing: As mothers we feel responsible. This is the hook. When I re-read your post it came to me that this is the problem: You feel responsible because YOU MUST FEEL THAT THE COURT DID NOT TAKE ADEQUATE RESONSIBILITY TO HELP HER.

    And you feel the pressure to step in, at the same time YOU KNOW that you should not and can not.

    Implicitly you are still feeling the need to take responsibility for her--that she keeps out of trouble, that she changes, when in reality it is SHE who must do so. And she must of necessity struggle and keep struggling until, and suffer--until she learns. Some people never do.

    How handy to spew at you the words THAT YOU FAILED HER. Give me a break.

    Honestly, I would cut that off NOW. All of that is a siren song that will keep her believing that any agency in her life, WILL COME FROM OTHERS NOT HER. When the exact opposite is true. She will change herself. Only her.

    That is why I would forget about how the Court dropped the ball. There is no external thing that will help them until they decide to help themselves.
  7. litbitblack

    litbitblack New Member

    Thank you so much for the replies, support and suggestions. It has helped so much- validating what I believe. I put up with so much from her before my grand daughter moved in with me just so she wouldn't keep her from me or remove her from me out of spite. I have had my grand daughter constantly since august of 2015. Texas law pretty much requires grand parents to have physical custody at least 6 months before you have grounds to file. And I was scared that if i did file she would temporarily get her :censored2: together then refuse all contact so I waited, Until she was in jail for a major charge. My daughter had a very close gang friend get shot that she pulled up to right afterwards-it happened at her job. This seems to be the thing that made her spiral quicker because I know she was involved in stuff prior to that. This all happened in may of 2015. Prior to that she had an apt ( she had only lived on her own 10 months before that her and grandbaby stayed with me.) I helped her get settled, helped her get a car, babysat before she got daycare assistance and afterwards as well. After the shooting in which somehow her name got pinned to it was safer for my grand baby to live with me so that's the back ground. Over that year and a half she lost 2 apts, her vehicle, numerous jobs, got in an abusive relationship and denies doing meth but lost so much weight she had to have been doing it and was staying with this boyfriend in a crack house because they didn't have any where to go. She was even on the news for sneaking drugs in the jail and had to have a warrant for the cops to search her in which she threatened to kill everyone in the room (obstruction charge). She has nothing. no clothes, no job, no phone nothing. I really don't understand how probation can even be a factor in her charges. She doesn't have a previous record besides theft because none of the charges she racked up have been settled or dismissed. I just hate not knowing what is going to happen. SHe has court on the 16th to present the deal to the judge. She also has misdemeanors that need to be addressed and feels she is going to get time served. It is hard watching your child self destruct and then appear to try to pull it together for the court so she can be free. Thank for listening and responding and I will check out al anon.
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  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Honey, if your family expects you to give her a second chance in your home and maybe a chance to reclaim granddaughter,i think they could all use some serious therapy. Are they serious??? That's an ugly story. I'm sorry.
  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Make double sure that the court knows that she will NOT live with you while she is doing her probation. She will have to give them an address where she will live in order to be released, and if she gives your address then you will have to agree to it. If they call and ask you, just say NO. I think that is likely a big part of how she is getting a deal, having a permanent address, somewhere stable that she can go to in order to live during her probation. She is likely counting on you not being able to say no to her and you are going to have to be able to say no in order to keep your granddaughter safe and yourself safe. I can see how this will be hard for you, but it is one of the less fun parts of parenting. But you have already had to take on parenting her child. She can find someone else to be her permanent address for parole/probation. Especially as this would put her child in danger. Gang ties don't just go away.
  10. tishthedish

    tishthedish Active Member

    Keep your home your sanctuary. You are going to need it and so is your grand daughter. I picture a perimeter around my yard and my difficult child/dren/others on the outside. Keep space for yourself. Read how at one time or another we have lost ourselves. Please listen to your head and let your daughter experience the consequences of her probation. My sons have been on probation and had to do community service, take anger management courses, take 75 hours of substance abuse classes, had to go to a victim impact meeting, meet with his officer every two weeks, has check ups at home. Your daughter's offenses are much more serious. Her probation might be very demanding AND is she has nowhere to go it is up to the state/legal system to find her housing and a permanent address for them to check on her. Let the courts and legal system take their course. And what your other children think? They don't get a vote until they have children of their own. Good luck and create a peaceful environment in your home. It doesn't wash away the worry, but it takes away the everyday conflicts, confrontations and fear. Walking on eggshells in your own home is no way to live. Good luck.
  11. Ironbutterfly

    Ironbutterfly If focused on a single leaf you won't see the tree

    Hello- I would write a letter to the Judge and ask that she not be given probation for obvious reasons, sets her up to fail. Perhaps it would be better if she did a few years jail time first, then of course probation after release. As hard as it is to think of our Difficult Child spending time in jail; sometimes it is the best thing for them to walk out. It gives them time to think about their life choices, get away from bad people they met, they are off the street, no drugs, drinking, perhaps go to school, learn a skill or trade in jail. Many years ago when son first got in trouble, I wrote a letter to the Judge and he listened to what I thought would be best for him. I had a friend who's son did cocaine, drug dealing for years. He finally ended up in jail for 5 years. He lost his wife, kids, job. When he got out- he moved away from the city he lived in to start a new life and didn't want to be tempted with old bad friends and habits. He has done well and even re-established a relationship with his children. He said it was the time in jail that gave him to time to realize how he chose to destroy his life.

    I would not let her come to your house. She has a pattern of not completing probation in her past. I would mention to the Judge you are concerned about welfare of your grand-daughter and possible relapse with her moving on from her mother not being there for her should be granted probation only and no jail time. Your daughter has had many years to turn her life around and she chose another path to walk. YOUR grand-daughter deserves a safe, happy life now.
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  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I am afraid that if she lives with granddaughter she will gain legal grounds and be able to take baby from you once she leaves. Is she establishing an attempt to be a mother by moving in? The courts can stupidly favor biological parents, even horrible mothers, over a child's welfare.i saw this in foster care. It's partly why we quit doing it.

    Did you receive legal custody? If not, I think you should try.

    If you have any inclination to bring dangerous daughter in your house, please please call your family law lawyer first. Your daughter may be sort of young at 21 (I dontj think it's that young or that her crimes were linked to her age,) but your granddaughter is FOUR. She needs protection. Most 21 year olds are graduating college, working full time, in the military, growing up...Your daughter chose crime and she knew it and also knew this would harm her child but she did not care. She is certainly old enough to know about the consequences for herself AND her child, even if she didn't care enough to take care of herself and more importantly...The baby. That is not good...

    Hugs and luck. You may be fighting your in my opinion clueless family...We Are here though. Take a time out from those who are giving u advice that feels wrong in your gut. Trust your gut.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  13. litbitblack

    litbitblack New Member

    Yes I have temp custody with supervised visitation orders. We go to Chuck E. Cheese every other Saturday for dad visitation and he has only showed up and stayed 4 times. I take her to the jail every week to see her mom but it's on a phone and she doesn't talk but a few minutes. The orders say when she gets out she will have supervised on opposite weeks but I'm getting tired of spending money on Chuck E. Cheese for the parent who wanted to fight for visitation not show . We were waiting to see what her sentence was going to be before going back for permanent. The dad has pending orders as well.i also think the judge who is going to decide her case is the same one who heard the custody case so I don't know if that will be a conflict. When you write a judge do they let the attorneys and defendants know they received letters ?
  14. Ironbutterfly

    Ironbutterfly If focused on a single leaf you won't see the tree

    I gave a copy to the attorney of the letter I wrote to Judge just so they know what was said.

    Can you meet in a park vs. Chuck E Cheese?
  15. litbitblack

    litbitblack New Member

    Visitation was made supervised because the dads family had made kid napping threats in the past. I had mentioned the park at court but the judge said there was slot of supervised visits that occurred at Chuck E. Cheese so it says specifically chuck e cheese
  16. litbitblack

    litbitblack New Member

    Sooooo court is tomorrow morning for my daughter. She was offered 15 yrs probation on 5 felonies and has another 10 misdemeanors that she says will be dealt with tomorrow as well (previously the court date was set for march 7th). She said the probation office gave her two addresses she could stay at then preceeded to say that one was on her license which is mine and I already told her she can't stay with me and the other one was at my moms who has adamently said no ( but not to her because my mom refuses to talk to her) my daughter tells me not to talk to my mom that she will talk to her because if she doesn't have an address she can't get probation. The probation office doesn't appear to be concerned with verifying anything. I am stressing myself out. I feel bad because i don't want her to get out. She needs serious jail time not 7 months in county. I have even went to far to see what other inmates have received on the same charges by the specific judge that she is seeing. Its the same judge that did the custody order back in september. But he is also new to the bench and there has been some controversy on his judgements of some people in the past. So I am praying for a just outcome thats all i know how to do....
  17. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Look. It is her life to live not yours. We can only live our own life, which is what you are doing and what she is doing.
    I believe this is a set up too. The court knows it. The DA knows it. They are not operating in terms of her interest but in the public good. They have assessed that she is not a threat to anybody but herself and the people she hangs with, and they are pretty much living the same rotten lifestyle I would guess.

    This is for her to work out.

    You have already addressed the issue of her living with you but I want to restate this: if she lives with you she will continue to hold you responsible. This will hurt her. Her only chance is to recognize that the consequences of her own choices, attitudes, accrue to her. And what happens to her is due to something she does or does not do. The only way she has a chance of learning this is away from you.
    If you take her in you will hurt her not help her.

    I do not know the terms of probation. If she is on probation is she confined to your County? If she gets the opportunity for college or job training (such as Job Corps, which is wonderful) can she be given the opportunity to leave the County, with the possibility of being supervised in another area?

    It is very hard for us parents to understand and to accept that our role is much diminished with our children are adults. It is hard for them too. They understand very well that our control is diminished. But they do not get easily that our responsibility, too is curtailed.

    Your daughter must learn the causal connection between her deeds and consequences, which has not a thing to do with you. Having her in your home only clouds the issue, and will make it harder not easier to do what she must. Please try to understand this. You will hurt your daughter if you take her in.
  18. litbitblack

    litbitblack New Member

    She received 10 yrs probation and has 17 charges she pled to or received time served on. She is going to have such a difficult time making it with all of that. But I am standing my ground and we will see how long it is before she is cussing me out. My sister is picking her up and bringing her to see her daughter then taking her to her house in the boonies to stay. She will have to work her way from there. Im sticking to the visitation but will allow her to have the dads time since he is in jail.....wish us luck
  19. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member


    lit, can she stay with your sister indefinitely, if she wants to, if she behaves well? If so, this means she has a place to stand. A safe secure place. The rest is up to her.

    How many kids start out in the boonies and make it from there? Millions and millions. How many kids start out in families where they have been abused, and make a life, a good one? Yes, she has one foot tied behind her (which she did to herself) but most people start out like this in one way or another. I did.

    I think it is generous to give her double visitation.

    The ball is in her court. I think you did everything right. Try not to hold yourself responsible for what she does or does not do for herself.

    I do wish you luck. Blessings. I hope you stay with us as things progress. Take care.
  20. litbitblack

    litbitblack New Member

    Well its been a month and a 1/2 since she got out of jail. She is no longer living at my sisters as I knew they were to much alike and it wouldn't work out so my mom gave in and is letting her stay there. Her probation officer got her a job and she has been there a little over a week. My daughter doesn't feel I should finalize the custody case because she wants her daughter back and went so far as to say "I want to let her stay here but maintain custody." My attorney said I need to come in and discuss visitation because right now we have it ordered supervised at a specific place and basically we are not doing that. I do want to lift the supervised and allow her more access. She is not in a place where she can raise her right now and my mom won't allow my grand baby to stay the night so its just visits during the day time. What is everyone elses experience with finalizing custody orders? I know in the future she wants her to live with her but I just don't trust her to be able to manage the stresses of life and not turn back to smoking weed which is then a probation violation. I want to go ahead and ask to maintain conservativeship with the primary right to decide where my grand daughter lives that way I can allow her to return to her mom when her mom has her life right....opinions please.