The Call

[New Leaf]

Hi all and thanks so much for your thoughts.

But all of us in this group know our kids are incredible manipulators, so try not to to put yourself in a situation where your heart gets broken any further

Oh boy CTM, isn’t this the truth. The problem too is, that my heart and brain goes into overdrive, and I end up having to talk myself down from the ledge. She doesn’t even have to be involved. Huh. I will guard my heart and try to stay away from the catastrophic thought process.

It is ok to take heed that the right time may be the time she comes to YOU sincerely asking for help. Talking to a drug addict, as you well know, is pointless.

It is pointless. Infinity times that. Sincerely asking for help. Wouldn’t that be something?
Coming from her, it would be miraculous.

Very happy Mom is on the mend. That is a blessing

It is truly a blessing, Swot. Thank you!

but maybe Hoku is right -- maybe the universe is saying it's best to keep it simple and with the opportunity to consider and compose your words for now. I'm sure as her head clears out, her emotions are all over the place.

I think so too, Albie. I do recall the many times I have tried to talk calmly with her and the flip switches to a rage. I would be like a deer in the headlights wondering how we got to that place. Don’t want to go there.

How wonderful that your grands can be with you for a visit. I'm so glad they have the constant of your loving presence right now!

It is good to be with them. Hoku is helping as I am back to work. Their aunties took them school shopping and shower them with love. I hope that it stays with them, the love their family has.

Give it time. There is no urgency. All she (really) needs to hear from you, you have said in the letter.

I have not written the letter yet, but will. Confession, of course the phone rang today, before I read your response, and it was Tornado, I was finally successful at entering my card. She did not demand bail. I explained my issues with the phone system, and she said she thought I was hanging up on her. We were at sons race, and she wanted to speak with her kids, so that is where her focus was. Promising to buy them stuff when she gets out. They are so way beyond that. They don’t fall for that. They were flat, just listening to her. They have their shields up, and I don’t blame them.

This is really not about you, New Leaf.

You are right, Copa, it is not. About me.

We. You and I. Are in pretty much the same place right now. Trying very hard to not own something that is not ours to take on. They try to rope us in. To make it about us. What we can do. Don't do. Won't do. Will do.

This is very true and wise.

And the horribleness of this is that our mind goes their too. Even when we know better.

Yes, my mind does go there, as much as I try to stop myself from chewing the cud, wringing my hands, and sweating it out, I do. But, it is not the disaster it used to be, externally, internally, I have some work to do. My routine got disrupted, I was a bit thrown off kilter and just didn’t feel right. I think the timing was hard, with Mom being so ill and work starting up. Looking back, incidents always seem to manifest at the most difficult times, as if these adult kids of mine have a homing device, I must have a Batman type beacon that lights up their skies, signaling when my load is full, for them to add that one last straw. The challenge is, for it to become another Tuesday for me, the same way it is for them.

This is not about you. Or anything you can or should do. That is my mantra, now.

It is true, it is not about me. As much as they try to make it mine, it is their journey.

And as it has been a month, she could probably use a stroke of caring. Just getting a piece of mail in there may bring a calm to her.

Thanks, Kalahou. That was my thought, keep it simple, but as you know in my writing here, I do have a propensity to go overboard.

I kept the first note ( and even subsequent ones) to my son short / simple / unemotional / trying to make my position clear.

Thank you so much for sharing this. I think it is a good idea to keep copies of whatever I send, so if it is twisted, I have a record. Isn’t that awful? To have to measure words, extract emotion, and recall what is sent. To have to be so utterly cautious. This is the reality of it.

Nothing about Difficult Children is easy. We never know what to do or how it will come out. Even though my son has made better strides the last 2 years, every day I still have FOG that I need to work our myself. My thoughts, love and prayers are with you, Tita, as you stay onipa'a in this challenge. You are going to be alright.

It’s that box of chocolates. We never know what we are going to get. It is a daily effort for me as well, dear sister. I will be alright. I just have to be. My Tornado will have to walk this journey, and I will have to learn over and again, how to keep myself from the roller coaster of it.
The sting of those words “Who the f does that?”
“Me, I do, leave you to taste the consequences of your choices, so you will know for yourself, if this is the path you wish to continue on.”
I am going to try my best to stay away from the drama of it, return to steady state and live my life.
Thank you so much for being here and sharing your love and kindness.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[New Leaf]

Sooooo, I get a call from the public defender, trying to urge me to sponsor my daughter. “You are your daughters first choice.” She says, like it is a Publishers Clearing House prize, or something. It feels more like one of those scam calls. Being new to this whole situation, I apologize for my “jailbird Mom for dummies” questions. When she explains that this is for Tornado’s request for early supervised release, I took a deep breath and said “Can’t do it.” I told her in a nutshell the storms we have gone through and that my daughter is addicted to meth, with two drug houses in the neighborhood, this is not the place for her, neither would she follow rules, or listen to me. There was a pause on the other end, silence. Then she started talking rehab and IOP, family support, yada, yada, yada.
I imagine this young woman must think I am cold and heartless. How could she know the journey we have been on?
Nope.
Can’t do it.
I have my son, senior in high school, I am a widow, I have my daughter and her baby living with us.
It is still hard to say no.
But....
I am not going down that road with a near 30 year old who is stubborn and disrespectful.
She will have to figure this out on her time.
There.
More fuel for her to despise me.
Whatever.
I doubt very much that she is ready to get clean, she wants OUT.
I will not rearrange my home, my life, to dig her out of this mess.
There is still this ache inside of me that I am pushing down with all of my might. That is the ache that drove me to pull out the stops and try to “help” her because “this time will be different”. The tough side of my logical brain retorts back “If it is different, she will make it happen.”
I am trying not to enter the bipolar zone wars, my mothers bleeding heart loses all sense and falls hook line and sinker for the game.
Lord let my realistic, “Helloooo Leafy, we have been at this sort of juncture before”.......stoic voice prevail.
Not getting on the horror go round.
I am repeating your mantra, Copa, this is not about me. It is not up to me, or what I will, or won’t, should or shouldn’t do.
It is up to her.
If the public defender calls me again, I will tell her, “If you really want to help my daughter, get her into rehab, but first, she really has to want to go.”
Yet, still, on this morning as I wake, my heart is sad.
Leafy

 

[Jabberwockey]

Yet, still, on this morning as I wake, my heart is sad.

As it should be. Your sadness doesn't change the fact that you are doing the right thing not only for you, but for your daughter. She will change WHEN SHE WANTS TOO! And not a second before. Keep repeating this over and over when you feel weak. We are all hear for you Leaf!

 

[RN0441]

Leafy

Yes yes yes! You are doing the right thing. Do not let them push this off on you.

This is what your daughter needs. To be locked up. She has to be forced to make better choices.

If you step in it will be a disaster for you and your son and mostly your daughter.

Correct, they are just doing their job and have NO WAY of knowing WHAT you've been through.

Seriously do not give it another thought. You are a million percent right my friend!

Hugs.

 

[Triedntrue]

There is no way she is completely detoxed yet. You are a loving mom just trying to do what is best for your family.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Leafy, you're doing a very, very difficult thing in saying no now. I'm so sorry about the pain of it, I understand the suffering that that no offers to us.

There is still this ache inside of me that I am pushing down with all of my might. That is the ache that drove me to pull out the stops and try to “help” her because “this time will be different”. The tough side of my logical brain retorts back “If it is different, she will make it happen.”

Oh boy, I know that ache so well.

You're doing a very good job of continuing to hold your line......and I know the agony that can bring......but this is in support of your daughter to find her way out, on her own, if she chooses. I went thru that with my daughter for years and the last time she was homeless, I told her that this time she is like Luke Skywalker in Star Wars (she's a huge Star Wars fan, so she could hear this more readily)........ I told her it's time to find her own hero's journey and it's a journey one does alone. It's her quest to find herself, not mine. She heard me.

This seems to be an opportunity for your daughter to shift gears if she so chooses....

You're doing well with it Leafy.......you're doing what I would do in the same situation......and I know it's rough.
We're all here with you......you're never alone.
((((HUGS))))

 

[Albatross]

Oh Leafy, what a call to receive. That is one of those times when doing the right thing hurts so much. You handled it magnificently, I think.

Counsel represents Tornado’s wishes on these charges, not what’s best for Tornado in the long run. I agree with the others. Tornado can’t possibly have had any kind of change of heart or mind yet. And you have the rest of your family to consider and (sadly) protect from any more fallout. Stay strong, Leafy.

 

[Copabanana]

Bravo!!!! New leaf!!!!

You did good. I get these calls and visits too.
The police. Inpatient hospital.

The gist: it's only mj. It's legal. He has nowhere else to go. He says he paid rent.

Screw all of them. Hostile? Sorry.

Let our kids go to salvation army for 6 mos.

There is no other answer than the one you gave. Not one other answer.

Our kids want us to pay the price. We drive the car. We pay the toll. They take the car. They crash the car. They want us to fix it or buy a new one. Why??

So they can freeload some more. Have an easy way to buy their stuff. And call the shots in our houses. And gossip about us, about what we did wrong.

Forget it.

I am not mad. It is just that at some point the writing is on the wall.

And we see it. Because it is written in poop
And it stinks.

You see it. You smell it. So do we. I don't care how many dumb ass public defenders and cops (no offense jabber) and psychiatrists want to convince us it's a rose, and it's a corsage, it's not.

It's simple. As you say. She can sashay her behind down to salvation army or teen challenge.

 

[toughlovin]

Ah Leafy.... these calls and saying no is so hard even when it is absolutely the right thing. It is much easier for defense attorneys if they have families willing to take in their clients, give them a place to stay etc etc. They are not thinking about the rest of the family they just want to finish this case...,. Especially public defenders because they arent making any money. But you have to think about what is right for you and the rest of your family. It would be terrible for your son who is senior in high school, your daughter who is living with you and your precious granddaughter and of course it would be terrible for you. So dont feel guilty for thinking of yourself and the others in your family. This is your daughters mess. I know when my daughter was still in high school saying no to the courts about my son coming home was more clear cut..... after she went to college it became less so because now it was just us I had to think about. He did end up coming home for a year and I think that was the last time because it is not good for us at all. Hang in there and stay strong!! And yeah feeling sad is normal, none of us want this for our kids.

 

[DoneDad]

The public defender is most likely doing whatever is easiest for her to move the file off her desk. You know the situation. You need to do what’s right for you and any minor children in the home.

 

[Tired out]

Leafy, I feel very bad that you (yet again) were put in the position to feel sad about the 30 year old that refuses to take responsibility for herself.
I agree you are doing the right thing by saying NO. Her mess should not be around your little grandchild or your high-school senior. Let her ruin hi senior year? That would be a mistake. You did a wonderful thing by taking in your daughter with a baby. You have a home to keep intact for the underage kids, don't let the Tornado rip the roof off.

 

[BusynMember]

That little baby will feel tension like all babies do. To me the baby, your daughter who is kind to you and being a good mother to your granddaughter, and your awesome son should come before your daughter who keeps messing up and only calls you for rescues way beyond the sge she should ask for any. She in my opinion takes personally responsibilty for herself by then, as you are telling her to . I am sure its not easy though.

In my mind, for the little my opinion is worth, you are doing exactly the right thing. Exactly. On all levels.

30 is hardly a kid. She has to learn to stand alone. Or not. But you cant be her mommy anymore. None of us can live forever.

Love and light!

 

[CareTooMuch]

Oh Leafy, you did the right thing, you know that in your brain. Your heart is always going to say otherwise because you are a loving mom. All of us seem to be bipolar, that's what our kids are making us. I'm still relatively new to this world, acting bipolar week to week, day to day, sometimes minute to minute. I know that we need to stop enabling this bad behavior, but these are our children. Stay strong and try not to let this derail you.

 

[Kalahou]

Aloha kakou Leaf,

I get a call from the public defender, trying to urge me to sponsor my daughter. “You are your daughters first choice.”

All so familiar. My son repeatedly told me that "supervised release" meant nothing more than giving my name, and my son even told me he would not have to live with me. Also the defender called me on two occasions during son's 6 month stay to ask / almost plead if I would supervise release. The defender also acted like it wasn't a big deal. (Whoa! guess she had never been in our shoes!) Like you, I was firm ~ not available.

I decided to find out more myself just for my own knowledge, and I called anonymously to the intake services (?) to ask what all the "supervised release" entailed - what did it mean? What did I have to do? What was my obligation?

FYI - the notes of the conversation I jotted down included this following info:

Supervised release has a sponsor. You would be the Sponsor. It sounded like babysitting, as you see from the info below. For those of us trying so hard to not enable and to detach, this seemed like tethering a noose to both of us to remain attached without an escape ! Whew!

The following is some of the info I jotted down:

• The sponsor must go to the court hearings, and make sure the defendant gets to court.
• Defendant must live with sponsor in the same residence.
• Sponsor must agree to terms and conditions, such as the following :
• Sponsor must enforce conditions such as curfews, ensure offender makes required contacts to parole officer, and checks in to court dates etc. Also if there is monitoring on the offender such as a GPS, the sponsor must monitor location of GPS to ensure the offender meets conditions and restrictions on locations.
• Sponsor must advise the court if defendant is not following rules. If the sponsor does not advise the court about any breaches of the offender, then the sponsor can be charged with “contempt of court.”
• Sponsor must accompany defendant to court dates and trials. Sponsor must accompany the offender with checking in to places he needs to report to, such as check ins for Urine Analysis, etc, and other court meetings , doctor status checks, etc.

Other notes:
~ If defendant does not do well on supervised release or if defendant gets another charge while on release, it will make it worse and harder for him when sentenced.
~ If interested in being a sponsor for supervise release, you contact and work with Public Defender (PD) , who will interview you and explain the terms and conditions. Then PD will have to submit a motion, and get a hearing date set. You must attend . All this could take some weeks.

I'm just sharing the info so you have a more complete picture and confirmation that you are doing right thing (for yourself and for Tornado) in not supervising release.
Hang in there. Malama pono.

 

[Acacia]

Leafy,

"more fuel for her to despise me" how I get that! Hold strong. You are doing the right thing in protecting yourself and your family.

My son is in jail again, blaming me, and I've been down the road of his blaming me for EVERYTHING bad and not once for anything good. I've felt the same judgmental vibe from pubic defenders, counselors, and judges- how can you not be there to support your chil. If only they knew.

My son has used our family to make it look as though he's changed to get out of jail. We supported him, but nothing had changed.

It's taking all my strength to say no, but say no I must. To give in would ultimately destroy me.

 

[Jabberwockey]

You see it. You smell it. So do we. I don't care how many dumb ass public defenders and cops (no offense jabber) and psychiatrists want to convince us it's a rose, and it's a corsage, it's

None taken whatsoever Copa. For YEARS working in Corrections I continually wondered how parents could LET their child turn out like this. I lived under the delusion that all children had the same respect for and obedience to their parents that I do. I saw nothing in my sheltered life to contradict this. Not even after I started working in Corrections. Oh, I heard little snippets of conversations on the phone with parents but thought little of it. Inmates are prone to "exaggerate" on a regular basis. Then our son went off the rails and forced me to completely reevaluate my opinion on why people end up incarcerated. In speaking with my supervisors about why I was missing work due to stress, lack of sleep, court dates for my son, going home to have his friends arrested because I found out they had active warrants; I learned that a fairly significant portion of Corrections employees have Difficult Children. Which begs to question while at the same time answering why so many Corrections employees have such craptastic attitudes towards the offenders. After working for a few years in Corrections, I developed a pretty good radar for who would or wouldn't return to prison after they left. Turns out that radar is based on being able to gauge by their actions where they are in the Difficult Child journey. Near the beginning, they'll be back. Near the end, good chance of succeeding!

 

[New Leaf]

I can’t even begin to tell you all what a tall glass of ice tea on a hot day your words of support are.

She will change WHEN SHE WANTS TOO! And not a second before. Keep repeating this over and over when you feel weak. We are all hear for you Leaf!

Thank you Jabber. I will repeat this. When she wants to. Right now, the motivation is a get out of jail free card without thought of what that means for her family.

Yes yes yes! You are doing the right thing. Do not let them push this off on you.

Thank you RN. That is what they want, for me to take responsibility, and the likely fall.

There is no way she is completely detoxed yet. You are a loving mom just trying to do what is best for your family.

My thoughts exactly, it has been a month. Too soon. I am sure if she was honest about her addiction, they could swing rehab or a program her way.

but this is in support of your daughter to find her way out, on her own, if she chooses.

That is the proper way to put it Re. My not giving her what she wants is a support.

. I told her it's time to find her own hero's journey and it's a journey one does alone. It's her quest to find herself, not mine.

This is so true. I can’t captain her ship for her. She has got to learn to do the right thing. I am certain that would not happen if I was her easy way out. It would be more of the same. Easy for her, very, very hard on us.

We're all here with you......you're never alone.

Thank you Re. You guys have been my lifeline.

Counsel represents Tornado’s wishes on these charges, not what’s best for Tornado in the long run.

Ahhh, Albie, that was my thinking. They have to do what she wants. It’s part of this game.

There is no other answer than the one you gave. Not one other answer.

Thank you Copa. I am seeing that, even as my heart aches.

Our kids want us to pay the price. We drive the car. We pay the toll. Thy take the car. They crash the car. They want us to fix it or buy a new one. Why??

So they can freeload some more. Have an easy way to buy their stuff. And call the shots in our houses. And gossip about us, about what we did wrong.

This sums it up so perfectly. It will never be enough. Recalling Tornados soliloquy on her “horrible childhood” it is a much different picture than what I recall. We were there for her, did many things together as family, trips, camping, outings, movies, etc. Supported her schooling and activities. Tried over and again to help her. She sold us down the river and then some. Never apologetic. Just feelings of expectations and entitlement.

I am not mad. It is just that at some point the writing is on the wall.

And we see it. Because it is written in poop
And it stinks.

It is written in a big smelly pile of poop. Thank you Copa. All of it is true.

It is much easier for defense attorneys if they have families willing to take in their clients, give them a place to stay etc etc. They are not thinking about the rest of the family they just want to finish this case...,. Especially public defenders because they arent making any money.

Thank you TL, this is my first time ever dealing with this stuff. The voice of reason and explanation helps me so much to understand the method to the madness.

It would be terrible for your son who is senior in high school, your daughter who is living with you and your precious granddaughter and of course it would be terrible for you. So dont feel guilty for thinking of yourself and the others in your family.

Thank you TL. That is my main motivator, to keep my promise to my son and keep my home peaceful.

The public defender is most likely doing whatever is easiest for her to move the file off her desk. You know the situation. You need to do what’s right for you and any minor children in the home.

Thank you DoneDad.

I agree you are doing the right thing by saying NO. Her mess should not be around your little grandchild or your high-school senior. Let her ruin hi senior year? That would be a mistake. You did a wonderful thing by taking in your daughter with a baby. You have a home to keep intact for the underage kids, don't let the Tornado rip the roof off.

That is the exact thing she would do....rip the roof off.

That little baby will feel tension like all babies do. To me the baby, your daughter who is kind to you and being a good mother to your granddaughter, and your awesome son should come before your daughter who keeps messing up and only calls you for rescues way beyond the age she should ask for any

Swot, you are exactly correct. The tension when she is around is horrible and that is before anything even happens.

In my mind, for the little my opinion is worth, you are doing exactly the right thing. Exactly. On all levels.

Your opinion is worth a lot. Thank you Swot.

30 is hardly a kid. She has to learn to stand alone. Or not. But you cant be her mommy anymore. None of us can live forever.

30 is hardly a kid for sure. She needs to wake up.
I so appreciate all of your support and experience shared here. It is a big sigh of relief and many bricks to build a fortifying wall around my decision.
(((Hugs)))
Leafy

 

[New Leaf]

I'm just sharing the info so you have a more complete picture and confirmation that you are doing right thing (for yourself and for Tornado) in not supervising release.
Hang in there. Malama pono.

Thank you so much Kalahou, this just strengthened my "No" to oh "HELL NO!" There is no way I am going down that path. Don't have the time or energy to focus on all of it. I have tried too many times to help her, TRO's against boyfriend, taking her in, only to have her go right back to the same ole same ole without a blink of an eye.

"more fuel for her to despise me" how I get that! Hold strong. You are doing the right thing in protecting yourself and your family.

Acacia, their opinion of us......is none of our business. That is what I have to keep repeating. It is a sick twisted way to switch blame for their ill choices over to us. Not right, or acceptable. It is not a normal relationship we have with these adult children of ours. They play the "poor me" card and then walk all over us. It is indecent of them. Not having it.

My son has used our family to make it look as though he's changed to get out of jail. We supported him, but nothing had changed.

This has happened many times with Tornado. Her conscience is buried deep down.

It's taking all my strength to say no, but say no I must. To give in would ultimately destroy me.

That is my take on it as well. I would be sacrificing my peace of mind and heart, as well as the sanctuary of my home. Nope, not doing it.

Inmates are prone to "exaggerate" on a regular basis.

This is Tornado to a "T". Yes, we had our struggles. For the most part, she had a blessed life and doesn't seem to remember any of it.
Thank you again for helping me see through the FOG of this.
(((HUGS)))
Leafy

 

[CareTooMuch]

Om

Aloha kakou Leaf,

All so familiar. My son repeatedly told me that "supervised release" meant nothing more than giving my name, and my son even told me he would not have to live with me. Also the defender called me on two occasions during son's 6 month stay to ask / almost plead if I would supervise release. The defender also acted like it wasn't a big deal. (Whoa! guess she had never been in our shoes!) Like you, I was firm ~ not available.

I decided to find out more myself just for my own knowledge, and I called anonymously to the intake services (?) to ask what all the "supervised release" entailed - what did it mean? What did I have to do? What was my obligation?

FYI - the notes of the conversation I jotted down included this following info:

Supervised release has a sponsor. You would be the Sponsor. It sounded like babysitting, as you see from the info below. For those of us trying so hard to not enable and to detach, this seemed like tethering a noose to both of us to remain attached without an escape ! Whew!

The following is some of the info I jotted down:

• The sponsor must go to the court hearings, and make sure the defendant gets to court.
• Defendant must live with sponsor in the same residence.
• Sponsor must agree to terms and conditions, such as the following :
• Sponsor must enforce conditions such as curfews, ensure offender makes required contacts to parole officer, and checks in to court dates etc. Also if there is monitoring on the offender such as a GPS, the sponsor must monitor location of GPS to ensure the offender meets conditions and restrictions on locations.
• Sponsor must advise the court if defendant is not following rules. If the sponsor does not advise the court about any breaches of the offender, then the sponsor can be charged with “contempt of court.”
• Sponsor must accompany defendant to court dates and trials. Sponsor must accompany the offender with checking in to places he needs to report to, such as check ins for Urine Analysis, etc, and other court meetings , doctor status checks, etc.

Other notes:
~ If defendant does not do well on supervised release or if defendant gets another charge while on release, it will make it worse and harder for him when sentenced.
~ If interested in being a sponsor for supervise release, you contact and work with Public Defender (PD) , who will interview you and explain the terms and conditions. Then PD will have to submit a motion, and get a hearing date set. You must attend . All this could take some weeks.

I'm just sharing the info so you have a more complete picture and confirmation that you are doing right thing (for yourself and for Tornado) in not supervising release.
Hang in there. Malama pono.

Omgosh, that is making one of enable and stress to the 10th degree, sounds much worse thanks what most of us are going to through. Thanks for passing this that on, it is important we all keep that in the back of our our minds