M

ML

Guest
(((((((((K)))))))))))) Sweetie I am soo sorry for the terrible experience today. I just don't understand how there is no help out there. This economic situation won't help things for us either. I read an article that Colorado is 50th out of 50 in terms of mental health services and that the ones that exist are closing down. I just feel so bad for you and for difficult child too. :(
 

dreamer

New Member
I just wanted to send a hug....it sounds far too similar to how things were going here when my difficult child was at her peak. I'm so very sorry
 

CrazyinVA

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Sigh. I'm not surprised at the in-home offer vs. Residential Treatment Center (RTC). As I've said, we had to go through multiple steps to get to Residential Treatment Center (RTC).. it took months. I do want to say that in-home doesn't, or shouldn't put any additional demands on you ... but based on what you've been through so far, I completely get why it may end up that way, anyway. It all depends on the therapist they give you. I thinkyou've got nothing to lose by taking it. You're no worse off than you are now.

Try the psychiatrist I suggested, if you can. She's awesome, although I can't guarantee she'll take new patients, either. Worth a phone call, at least, to check.

I wish I knew what more to tell you about all this. How incredibly discouraging.

For now, keep yourself and difficult child safe. If you need to call 911, call 911. If he has to go back in the hospital, so be it. Copays are awful I know.. but you can pay on those in small amounts. Apply for the financial aid they offer.

Our counties are facing huge budget cuts, as I know you know . It's not going to get any easier, even if he goes into foster care. Please call the U of R law clinic before you make any drastic choices, if nothing else, and see if your story will get someone there to help you.
 

timer lady

Queen of Hearts
klmno,

You're between a rock & a hard place. Saying that, take what is offered if you can swing it.

I remember being where you are several years ago with the tweedles; fighting the entire system thinking they didn't have a clue. I had to stop fighting for my own sanity.

I took what was offered when all I really wanted was a "normal" family life. I have in home therapy, PCAs to help with kt's issues, Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) workers plus respite. (I realize that our state has some very generous services however I couldn't dictate those services.)

in my humble opinion, medications can help treat BiPolar (BP) & in fact does help in many cases. However, our little wonders have to learn new coping skills. The only thing they know is the huge drama/reactions in coping with frustration & anger. As parents, we need to provide a different way for our difficult children to deal with all those emotions. In home helped us with that in many ways.

I would ask PO, SW whoever if, for financial reasons, the help of a personal care attendant, mentor, whatever to supervise until you can get home from work. If you are to do this you will need help. I know I'm preaching to the choir here.

If this isn't any help feel free to blow this off. I'm just trying to think of things that may have been missed. I have no experience in fighting a group of professionals at that level. My mental health teams for kt & wm work together & hash out treatment plans along with behavior modification plans. It's my world....wish it were yours.
 

klmno

Active Member
That's the problem, TL. I initially asked for in home help, to include crisis planning/intervention, supervision and mentorship, financial help, possibly repsite, tutoring, and case management. There are places around here that have those services available as part of in-home, if the funding group contracts them to provide them to a family. But, the county mental health does not provide those- their in-home is ONLY a therapist at the home. This is exactly why it is not enough at this point to keep us/me afloat.

Even if it was though, based on my experience with the mst guy, the county therapist will get his "info" (basicly, their preconceived notions) about us before he even meets us and would show up with the same attitudes that this guy exhibited yesterday. I don't see hhow any therapy can be effective when someone shows up discrediting everything you say and not being willing to listen to what you feel the problems are because as mst guy said "we don't have time for that, I already know what the problems are". Then, when things aren't going smoothly, it's obviously because the parent is not coompliant. When I asked about this yesterday, the mouthy guy said "well, whatever my biases were, whether its because someone is black, or white or asian, get them on the table now". That was really odd- the PO is a different race than me, but the mst guy was not. Obviously, that had nothing to do with it. It may be that the PO had them convinced that I was prejudicial against her due to race- but that's BS. I can't stand her- but it has nothing to do with race. It's because she exhibits an attitudee towards us and undermines my parenting efforts. The GAL implied to me that it might be because of the PO's biases against white people.

Anyway, it was clear that they had already gotten info from school and PO before I went in there yesterday and they had their minds made up. It was also clear that what the mouthy guy really wanted was for mst to be started again. But at least the others didn't back that up. He said "we deal with the behavioral problems first, then if there are any mental health issues left, we'll deal with them". I just said, well, that won't work- that's how I started out 3 years ago and I've had too many tdocs end up telling me that they simply can't make that work until stabilization is gained thru medications. Why would they push for mst instead of treatment that is recommended for my son? because mst is the only "therapy" that is paid for through Department of Juvenile Justice instead of county funding.

I can't believe that the mental health people were really mental health profs- all one of them said was "did I make my son do chores", then "did I think he couldn't learn any differently". If it's all my fault, then let someone else raise him. Let them do a better job. Nothing will work this way if they are convinced that the only problem here is me and bad parenting.

I told them I had difficult child evaluation'd and had written recommended treatment strategies from an authority on mood disorders. The guy never asked me what those were. He asked the lady from mental health what she recommended- A or B. Now, how would she know what treatment would be in my son's best interest? She never met him, just had met me, and only knew what they had discussed about us with other people.

The basic in home therapist was recommended by psychiatric hospital the first time difficult child was in the psychiatric hospital 3 years ago, but I could not get it. Then, it was recommended again 2 years ago by psychiatrist, but GAL screwed up and ASSUMED that psychiatrist meant MST so she recommended that to the judge and it got ordered. When I realized that MST was nothing more than an all-inclusive behavior contract and that other treatment was recommended for difficult child, I took this to court and had order for MST to be removed but asked if any other type of in home service could be provided. I was told NO, but order for MST was removed. That was exactly 1 year ago. Now, I'm in dire straights in other areas because I have been covering it all myself and it will take more than a therapist to help with it- no matter how many hours or where we have access to him/her. Yet, NOW they are offering an in home therapist- but nothing else.

Maybe I should get documentaion of that to include with my response about why I'm not accepting it now. Obviously, they don't want to offer more because they would have to pay to contracat someone outside of the county to provide it.

The comment from DSS that an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) placement would be too traumatic and difficult child would learn worse behavior just kills me. I thought about it all night long. This kid is facing commitment to state juvy prison-long term (suspended senteence), with NO mental health treatment. I'm doing everything in my power to get him stabile and prevent further illegal activity, but they are going to do nothing. Apparently they don't believe that would be traumatic or exposing difficult child to the worst. It's because they don't want the cost coming from the county funding. The cost would be coming out of the state's budget.

My therapist used to work as a screener or something for Residential Treatment Center (RTC) placement in her early years and she said she had to work with people in these systems and that's what it boils down to. None of them want it coming out of their budget. I said "so much for the value of life". They are letting my son's go down the tubes, yet blaming me for it.

When he's stable and I tell people in the system, they argue that and act like they don't believe it. But when I try to tell them that he is not at all stable right now, they roll their eyes and act like I'm just not a good parent. They blame parents for not working with them- I think it's more like THEY have it in their minds that parents are beneath them, are idiots, and they want to cut the parents out of everything, or just order them around. Every person that works for this county, except the judge, the clerk, and the nice lady at intake, has treated me that way. You know how people in the sd can be when you are discussiing an iep and accommodations for your kid? Spread that to all the county people that are supposed to be there to help the kid and the family and that's where we are.

I kick myself in the butt daily for moving here. If I could sell this house quickly and get enough to even pay off most debts, I'd have us out of here in a month.
 
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Wiped Out

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Klmno,
Sorry I'm late to this. I wish I had some experience to help offer advice. I'm sorry there are so few services available and that these people seemed to have had their minds made up no matter what you had to say. Gentle hugs being sent your way.
 

CrazyinVA

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I know the in home therapy is not what you want. But at this point, it's more than you have now, which is nothing. It's possible that whatever therapist that comes in will be able to recommend additional things once he or she is there. I know you're certain that things will be the same as they were with the MST, but maybe they won't be. I hope you'll consider giving this a chance, if only to prove to them that they are wrong. The therapist could come in and say whoa, this is more than I can handle. What other option is there at this point, really? Even if you gave up custody, he wouldn't end up in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) right away. He still wouldn't get the help he needs.

I know you are angry, and frustrated, and scared, and have every right to be. I agree with everything you've written here, the situation hoovers, and the people you've dealt with seem incompetent and uncaring. When I got to that point, I had to take a step back, a deep breath, and look hard at my options. Sometimes, I had to play their game, even if I knew what they were offering wouldn't ultimately work. Doing this does not mean you're any less of a mama bear fighting for her cub.... but if you refuse what little services they are offering, I'm concerned they will lump you in with those other parents that don't care and just want to dump their kids on the system. By holding your head high and saying ok, fine, i'll take this little bit and work with it as best I can ... it gives you more leverage.

I know you feel as though you can't take on one more thing. But I really hope you can look at this as "something is better than nothing" option. in my opinion, it's the only option at this point.
 

klmno

Active Member
I just re-read my letter to the judge that was filed with my request last week. It asked for release from probation and for judge to order placement in a psychiatric Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and explains why I feel this is in my son's best interest at this time. Also, I explained in there why extensive in-home servcies would be needed if my son is to remain in my home and that in home therapy alone would not solve all these problems. Since all that they brought up yestrday was already covered in my request to the judge, I'm going to go down there now and see what the status of that is. If it was put on hold, that means the judge had to have read it and be in communication with these other people. When she finds out what was offered, she already has my explanation of why it is not enough. So, I can asked that she make some decision based on that.

It seems like they are either going to end up charging me with neglect because I can't meet difficult child's needs any longer, charge me with contempt for not supervising difficult child because I'm going back to work(or both contempt and neglect), or I give up custody and be treated like **** and get more court orders. Either way, I have to think about what gets most of his needs met and I can no longer meet them.
 
B

bran155

Guest
oh klmno, I am so sorry you are having such a tough time getting what you need for you son. I can only imagine how frustrating this is for you. It just isn't fair. You are doing a great job advocating for your son. I don't know any other parent who has done more for their children than you have done for yours!!! You are a great mom!!

Sending positive thoughts your way, with some big (((HUGS)))

Hang in there. :)
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
K...

I am going to have to write a sermon here and I dont know if I am going to make much sense...lol.

I agree with CinVa. Take what they give you now. I could have predicted that they would have reacted this way...they did it to me too. You have to work your way up through the ranks. Your son hasnt been out of the home in lower level placements and you are asking for the highest level of placement off the bat...they arent going to accept that without some sort of real urgent documented behavior.

They want to try community interventions first, then group homes or foster care, then Residential Treatment Center (RTC). And Residential Treatment Center (RTC) can be locked or unlocked. We went through all those.

Accept community and home interventions for now but ask them if a group home is available for him to access. That is less structured and sucurred than a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) but still has treatment as a goal. In home interventions shouldnt involve you to any great degree...they arent your interventions...they are difficult child's. These people should be working with your son...now they may be in your home or in the community but you dont have to be there. Cory's tech was with him for around 40 hours a week in the school and after school. I certainly wasnt with them at all times. I got along with most of these people but not all of them. He had quite a few of them over the years from ages 8 to 15...lol.

We worked the in home treatment until everyone was on the same page that he needed far more support than he was getting even with two parents, a hi risk tech, a case manager, a psychiatrist and a therapist on board. Not to mention his brothers and grandparents and all the staff that loved him at the centers he attended. We would go to meetings and find new group homes to take Cory. It wasnt easy because Cory adored us at home and would run from the group homes back home. I kept telling them he needed a locked facility but we couldnt get to that level of funding until we failed all level 2, 3, and 4 placements! Ticked me off as badly as you are ticked off now...lol. We finally got to that level about 3.5 years into the placement game. He did wilderness camp, group homes and finally Residential Treatment Center (RTC) at 16. Wilderness camp was from 11 to 12.5. Long time to fight for what we needed.

I started the fight for wilderness camp when he was 10. He went the month he turned 11.
 

klmno

Active Member
If they were offering all that it would be different. But they aren't.

I just got back from courthouse- the judge is going to set a hearing. I should find out in a few days when it is- unless I get a call one morning saying to get down there right then. LOL! The judge did that once before.
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
K--

I almost want to see you take your case to a public venue like "The Dr. Phil Show"...let the press in...make some noise...maybe if your cry for help shows up in the newspapers it will catch the attention of influential people that can actually make the difference for your child.

I know how stupid this sounds--but if "Mike the Plumber" can get a book deal...and people who weigh 300+ lbs can get "makeovers"...then surely, somebody somewhere can help your son!

--DaisyF
 

klmno

Active Member
I don't know if I'm ready to go quite that far just yet, DF! But, I am ready to contact the U of R and Office of Protection & Advocacy and state dept of mental health again. Our governor is the one making all the budget cuts- the sw at the psychiatric hospital said I probably shouldn't even bother copying him, but that it might be a good idea to copy other politicians. The rep for my area is one who's arguing in Wash Difficult Child against some much needed stuff the new admin is trying to get going. I can't see that we have any politicians for my area that care about this kind of stuff. I can send something to the Bd of Supers but really, I'm thinking if they cared, they wouldn't have county people who don't care in charge.
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
They may not be offering wilderness camp...me and his therapist found that on our own through the NC Baptist Childrens homes here. I cant even say that it did a whole lot of good but it didnt hurt him and he liked it but they took him off all his medications and did only behavior mod. He looks back fondly on that time. He actually looks back fondly on most of his time away...lol.

I really started getting out of home placement like group homes after I got him in a special program for at risk youth through Mental Health. It was called Willie M. back then but the name changed a few times and I have no idea what it is called now. It was a court case about a kid that fell through the cracks. I called the top of Children and Family Services and told them my kid was falling through the cracks and that he had all the criteria for admittance to Willie M. (which really was Conduct Disorder) but I couldnt get him in and that I needed him in so we could access services in this county. What that got me was that this program said they would build services around the client instead of just sticking the client in whatever was available. Nice concept but not really what happened all the time but something I tried to make work. I used the wording as often as I really had to but not too often so I could pull it out when I needed the big guns.

Cory went into that program at 13 and left it at 17. He still sees people that worked with him from time to time and they really are amazed to see him. His daughter is beautiful, he takes good care of her, he is polite...he could be worse.
 

klmno

Active Member
I meant they aren't offering community supports or any help other than a therapist show up a few hours a week to talk to difficult child/me here. My only chance of digging out financially is to work full time. Even if difficult child went back to school every day, it wouldn't allow me to work full time. They aren't offering a tech or supervision or mentor or transportation for difficult child to go to psychiatrist so I can sttay at work, or financial help, etc. If they had offered encompassing in home services, I would try that. I outlined that in my letter to the judge, thank goodness I had already explained it to her before yesterdays meeting.
 

klmno

Active Member
Here's my letter to the judge which was submitted last week. Apparently, she read it.

I am requesting that my son be released from probation so that I may access urgently needed assistance for difficult child myself if the court cannot order FAPT or placement in XXX Residential Treatment Facility. Attached are copies of letters from my son's psychologist, psychiatrist, and the social worker at YYY, the psychiatric portion of ZZZ hospital, where he was just discharged from last evening.

difficult child was hospitalized at YYY, an acute care facility, after being TDO'd on December 18, 2008, for self-harming behavior and again on January 13th, willingly, after I called the police due to difficult child becoming aggressive at home. His difficulties the past few months began with signs of serious depression last October and worsened with medication changes to address the depression and a physical illness that could have lead to asthmatic wheezing. He has experienced increasing mood lability and instability and has missed over 20 days of school this school year. He has not been arrested during this time for any illegal actions and has not posed any behavioral difficulties at school.

As difficult child's sole care-giver and mother, I am increasingly concerned that I cannot continue to keep him safe from himself, ensure that he stay directly supervised at all hours of every day, prepare and attend all appointments and meetings necessary, prevent a crisis or illegal action, and as a result of making these efforts without assistance, I am unable to work enough hours to financially cover household expenses and private insurance costs. Please note that when my son is manic, he might stay awake for two days straight and it requires staff who are awake to provide a highly structured environment and supervise his actions during those periods. At other times, he self-injures and speaks of being overwhelmed and not being able to handle his life.

Apparently there are many types of in-home services, not just MST as was previously ordered and removed due to not being an appropriate type of therapy for difficult child. However, in-home therapy alone will not solve all these problems and can only be minimally helpful until mood lability is stabilized through medications. Once stability is regained, in-home services might not be necessary. For these reasons, I personally believe a temporary placement with full time psychiatric and therapeutic staff is in his best interest at this time.

I filed a request for a hearing due to a Child in Need of Services on Thursday, January 8, 2009. I have since learned from the clerk that this was denied because I needed to speak with CSA and DSS. I had spoken to Ms. ABC, the county's CSA coordinator, in December, 2008, and was told that any services requested and needed must go through FAPT, and that FAPT can be referred by either Children Services Board (CSB), DSS, the school system, or Department of Juvenile Justice. Below are the responses I received from these agencies:



Children Services Board (CSB): According to DEF County Mental Health, Children Services Board (CSB) is not accessible to me without changing difficult child's private mental health care providers to the county's providers and allowing them to start over with evaluation and treatment first. If their treatment is not successful, they would determine if Children Services Board (CSB) and ultimately, FAPT should be recommended. Due to the length of time involved to go through that process and the urgency of difficult child's needs, I have sought other avenues.

DSS: I have spoken to three social workers from DSS. One was regarding obtaining a waiver for difficult child to receive Medicaid, which funds more services and relieves me from paying for his high cost of medical insurance out of pocket, which I can no longer afford because I have not been able to work full time hours in almost two years. Apparently, difficult child cannot get this waiver. The second social worker stated that DSS cannot get involved in referring services thru FAPT because I do not abuse or neglect my child. The third stated that I could pursue a temporary parental placement into a more therapeutic environment and/or family preservations services if difficult child was not on probation, but that I do not have control over his placement as long as he is on probation.

The social worker also indicated that the FAPT team, if accessed, would probably follow any recommendation from difficult child's probation officer and that the probation officer would be difficult child's case manager, instead of getting a mental health case manager. Given the nature of the problems, the fact that the probation officer is not a mental health professional, the difficulty reaching the probation officer by phone, and the fact that she has been aware of difficulties and has not pursued additional services to date, this concerns me greatly, as I am held accountable if difficult child's needs and recommended services are not provided.

School: The principal at difficult child's school attended a school meeting earlier today regarding this matter and it was decided that the school would not recommend FAPT for this matter. However, Ms. ABC was there and relayed through the principal that I needed to access FAPT through the probation officer for any services requested, other than Residential Facility Center placement.

Probation Officer: I am not aware of any action by the Probation Officer regarding this matter. She did previously inform me that she would have ordered FAPT if she had thought it was needed. It is my understanding that the social worker at the hospital also tried to contact the Probation Officer regarding placement and getting funding for recommended services but received no response prior to discharge.

The Probation Officer has been kept informed of difficult child's mental health status, recommendations from his psychiatrist and psychologist, hospitalizations, my requests to obtain help at home, and some of my financial difficulties resulting from meeting difficult child's needs and court requirements. difficult child and I have complied with all rules of probation with the exception of one incident where he left home without permission and I reported that to the Probation Officer, as well as punishing difficult child myself.

Other: I have been trying to look for other options since October of 2008. I pursued an opportunity to get services for difficult child through the National Institute for Mental Health but he was disqualified due to the fact that he is on probation.

As you can see from the attached letters, difficult child's individual therapist recommends placement at home with additional services (financial, therapy, respite, etc) provided through FAPT. The hospital staff recommends pursuing either more extensive services at home or medication stabilization at XXX Residential Treatment Facility where they have full time psychiatric care in addition to educational, therapeutic, and behavioral components.

If an immediate placement into XXX Residential Treatment Facility (RTF) is not an option, I am happy to have my son at home if necessary assistance in areas of crisis prevention and intervention, supervision, financial, and mental health care are provided until stabilization is again established. When I discussed our situation with Ms. ABC last December, she suggested an informal brainstorming session with FAPT to determine which services might be appropriate and available, in addition to maintaining the private services already in place.

I respectfully request that you hear this case at your earliest convenience. It is my sincere hope that you can and will help me obtain more appropriate services for my son.


Thank you for your consideration in this matter,
 
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klmno

Active Member
Thanks! I can't help but notice that 3 times before when I asked for basic in home therapy- nothing more- I couldn't get it. Now, things have deteriorated to the point where I think he needs Residential Treatment Center (RTC) but would accept extensive services at home, they only are offering basic in home therapy. I seriously believe they are making sure that they are not offering enough so that I don't accept it and they don't have to do anything.
 
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