The devils sporn

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by chrissey, Jan 10, 2014.

  1. chrissey

    chrissey New Member

    please don't misunderstand me, i love my daughter but boy!! where do i start. she is 25 and has two beautiful daughters (my granddaughters). she has had alot of heart ache and tragedy over last few years, and we have helped her through unconditionally, from an extremely prem baby of just 2lb due to pre-eclampsia, to complications with second child but mostly fine now. from a failed marriage and divorce (abusive husband) to sleeping with three of her brothers (my son) best friends.
    i know that life changes people, and she has changed beyond recognition. she has settled with the third best freind of my sons. my granddaughters mean the world to me but they are such intricate creatures. They are clearly not normal little girls not only because one has diabetes and the other is gluten and lactose intolerant, but their manner and nervousness of the world and normal influences.
    now we come to present day. over this last two months she has become angry bitter and selfish. we have bent over backwards to help her and the girls. always there for them all. i know she needs help and we have done that in abundance. just recently my husband and myself have started up a few interests of our own, not connected to our family. i do not feel this is unacceptable. so on the odd occasion we have not been able to be there for our daughter the way she wants us to and this has bought out the devil in her.
    now we are selfish and disinterested in her and the girls welfare. according to her this is. we felt because she has grown stronger with our support and now she has a boyfriend that its time to take a tiny step back. NO, this has back fired on us and now she uses the girls (granddaughters) as weapons. she virtually stopped us from seeing them by stating they were ill. we were being punished for weeks. i am sorry to say this but she has shocked our whole family by her actions. we adore those girls and them us. i had to threaten her to involve a outside third party before she agreed to reinstate our visits. this is not normal behaviour.
    she refused to talk to us, she said she was angry and needed time to get over our lack of commitment. i then thought "hang on a minute" what is this all about. now things are not good between us and her butat least i won the battle of seeing the girls. can anyone shed some light on our failures please or even hers.
  2. helpangel

    helpangel Active Member

    Welcome I'm confused does your daughter have a disability or something? Are you her adult guardian? I'm missing something here, what lack of commitment was she referring to? or mean by you both took step back on support?

    Guess I'm asking if it was money or childcare that she flipped over not getting? not that she is entitled to either from you and your husband at 25yo. If she is accustomed to you & husband watching the girls every weekend and had plans to go the bar, I can see where a spoiled rude entitled person would be angry had to change her plans.

    I also didn't understand battle to see the girls or who the 3rd party you were going to contact to force reinstating visits? Most states grandparents have very little custody rights unless circumstances puts them in a guardian position. I'm assuming your in the US which is assuming a lot we got people from all over the planet posting here.

    Sorry was trying to help you sort this out not bombard you with ?s, she does sound like a brat throwing a tantrum with what info you've given us, but I'm afraid she may have all the power if using visits with girls to extort money out of you. I don't think you could force visits if she decided to cut all contact.

    glad you found us but sorry you needed to, wish I could help more

  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi there. Welcome to our world. Most of us where were you are at one time and most of us have decided to choose a good life for OURSELVES since then. If you have a failure it is that you are seeing your daughter as that cute little baby you held and are not allowing her to grow up. You are always there to pick her up and it is making her act childish and abusive toward you. Her own faults are numerous. She owns her behavior at her age.

    Your daughter has had a hard time, but she is twenty-five years old and you are not parenting a child anymore. Her disrespect of you and namecalling while living in your house, using your food and bed and other luxuries is horrible of her. Yes, she is abusing you. Also, she has to learn how to take care of her children and see to their needs, not you. You did that already. You raised her. At her age, s he should really be on her own. She is making very poor choices and you and her father are unintentionally enabling her to continue acting like she is a lovesick, horny sixteen year old...not the grown woman that she is. Since none of us can live forever, even if we are willing to sacrifice every ounce of breath for our adult kids who can't seem to get on track, do you think it is good for her to be so dependent on you now? What will she do when you're gone?

    This is hard to hear...what I'm going to say next. I mean, when I had to admit it to myself about my own son, it made me gag. But it was true and I think it sounds true about your daughter: She is not a nice person. You should probably in my opinion, get on with your own lives. You can not force her to let you see her children, however if you feel they are not being taken care of you can call child protective services. And you can enjoy your golden years with your husband rather than continue to mother a whole new family. It is up to you. Does this daughter even have a job? Has she been tied up with drugs? Do her kids have to keep meeting her new boyfriends over and over again? Are they safe? Could they maybe be sexually abused by some of these boyfriends? You may have a good case for protective services.

    Having said this, by your spelling, I assume you don't live in the US. Rules/laws/ways of dealing with things are different in various countries. Can you tell us where you live? Somebody who lives there may come here and be able to advise you better about what services may be out there for this adult child and her kids. You should learn what they are and show them to your daughter because she is in my opinion way to old to be acting like you owe her 100% of your time and maybe a lot of your money too. Don't do it. You deserve a good life. In my opinion, it's time for her to hear, "We are not taking care of you anymore." If she throws a child's tantrum so be it. Most of us have been on the receiving end of an adult child's tantrum.By the way, did she maybe drink or take drugs while she was pregnant? That would be one big reason why the children may show some damage. Is she aware that they need evaluating and medical treatment? Has she taken them?

    I highly recommend buying the book "Codependent No More" by Melodie Beattie. And also read the article on detachment listed at the top of the page.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
  4. chrissey

    chrissey New Member

    hi nancy, thanks for ur input. i am english.
    sorry for confusion am very upset by events and it all came out at once. ok my daughter has left home. single mum with new relationship with sons friend. she refused to contact us for weeks, she would not talk to us or see us or let us come to hers. it was very frustrating. she used her new boyfriend to text messages to us but if i text her she wud not reply. we kept asking and asking to see them and were not getting a response, because she was angry that we could not have the girls on two separate occasions before xmas. we gave her lots of notice we were not available on these dates but she still tried to get us to have the girls. i said no sorry. as a result she kept saying the girls were ill when we were due to have them on our arranged days. four weeks passed and we felt helpless as she had no real reasons to stop us seeing them. so i was going to see if someone could reason or liaison with her just to get communication back with her. we do have some rights, not many, we are a huge part of those girls lives they have no other contact with other grandparents. we did nothing to deserve her treatment. so unless she can come up with good reason for us not to see them, we can see them. she stopped it because she was put out, and angry. the girls have no one else to look after them as she has fallen out with several other members of our family aswell. she is hard work to be around sometimes. she drained your energy, time and kindness. if she doesnt get what she wants she turns nasty and uses the girls to get back at people. i hope this helps explain x
  5. chrissey

    chrissey New Member

  6. chrissey

    chrissey New Member

    hi midwestmom, thanks for your time. its my fault sorry, i didn't explain properly. we have been there for our daughter because she needed us. she got married then divorced and was struggling. we had problem got to close, but it wasn't a problem at the time. we then realised that she needed her space, now she gained strenght. she was unsupported with two young girls suffering from depression because of circumstances and we did what any parent does for thier children we were there for her when she needed us. it was only over this situ that i realised we were being used to suit her needs but not in a good way. we felt we had no freedom or life of our own. so we pursued couple of our own interest again, as you do at our age i am 45 my hubby 50. she found it hard on her own with two young girls who do have problems but not disabilities. they have been so effected by the disfunctional lifestyle my daughter leads that we try to give them as much stability as possible.
  7. chrissey

    chrissey New Member

    hi sorry reinstate wrong choice of word by me.
  8. helpangel

    helpangel Active Member

    thank you for the info, I have no idea of what type of grandparent laws are outside the US hopefully someone who does will see this and post.

    An ocean apart but sounds just like a lot of people here, they act all rude and entitled to everything you have and they still want more! With the amount of care those 2 little ones require I'm surprised she was shutting you out, she must be exhausted. I can also see where they would interfere with her social time with new boyfriend; one would expect that she would be grateful for any respite she got.

    Of course you and husband deserve to have your own lives your child is grown, though I can also see your wanting to care for those girls as much as you can. I appreciate everything you are doing for them they really do seem to need your help. Your daughter is overwhelmed but this is her responsibility and hopefully she will get over herself soon and learn to appreciate everything you have done for her.

  9. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Like the others, I dont know what grandparents right you have access to in your country. In most states in the US, we are out of luck. Believe me, I wish I could get custody of 2 of mine.

    Over the years we have had problems with my youngest son being a brat but one thing we made abundantly clear to him and the mother of the child was if either of them even attempted to use the children as blackmail, it would backfire on them in a big way. I love my grandchildren but I wont allow that to go on. If they were to even attempt that, I would shut the door and never let any of them back in my home. That means any of the money train would completely cut off. Thankfully they all know where their bread is buttered.

    I do have a bit of trouble with my son and his youngest daughter because he doesnt want to upset her and pretty much spoils her. She throws fits if anyone tells her no so everyone but me walks on eggshells with her. I refuse to do that. I dont tell her no to just be mean but if she is attempting to do something I dont want to do, I say NO and expect her to comply, temper tantrum or not. What really gets my goat is when she screams back at me and tries to hit me. I hit back. Might not be right but Im not having a two year old smack me. I smack that hand. Since I seem to be the only one to punish her she gets mighty mad with One day her parents will realize their mistakes.
  10. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Chrissey, welcome. Your daughter seems like many of our adult kids here, entitled, manipulative, unable to connect her actions with responsibility and cruel.

    It's prudent for you to do some research and find out what your legal rights with the grandkids are. I also believe that you and your husband may benefit from getting some professional support for yourselves, counseling for you to disengage from your daughters choices. You may find the article on detachment at the bottom of my post helpful. Your daughter has found a way to hold you hostage with her demands and it's a tactic where everyone loses, including and perhaps especially the children. I think your best bet would be to get as much information as you possibly can from authorities giving you the knowledge to know how to proceed.

    You deserve to be having the life you desire and to move forward with that without your daughter's mean spirited choices. When there are grandkids in the mix, it complicates things, but even with that, detachment is the way to find peace for yourselves. Find support for you and your husband, where you can feel nourished, guided and given information and tools to make the best choices you can without jeopardizing your future. Keep posting, it helps. Wishing you peace.
  11. chrissey

    chrissey New Member

  12. chrissey

    chrissey New Member

    hi dammitjanet, thank you for your comment. i am sorry you too are facing problems with your grandchildren, and i hope the laws change soon to give you precious time with them before they are much older. i am sending you my best wishes for that across the globe.
    we are fortunate that the girls (aged 5 next week and 2 and a half) are very good girls. we have time out in our house and we only use it rarely. they know that at nana's house things are different and we are firm but fair. we don't have many problems with them at this stage. no doubt as they approach the 8-9 yrs it may change. we thought about cutting the girls out of our life but i am sorry!!! we just couldn't do it. the thought of it breaks my heart. i would rather cut a limb off.
    we know our daughter needs us, and we have been trying to break away from her for some time. the way it is at present, suits us fine. we now have limited communication with our daughter. the way she has reacted and treated us has extinguished and hope of a relationship with her. we dont want one. its so strange how every one in our family is saying the same thing. they have either broken contact with our daughter or dread seeing her. yes its true what some have said and that we have been too helpful, but those girls need us in thier lives.
  13. chrissey

    chrissey New Member

    hi thank you so much for your input. i found it so reassuring that and helpful. we have done just that and yes we have a right to see the girls because its been proved that we have been there throughout thier young lives, loved and supported them as much as we could. there is no reason why we cant see them. they are safe and loved and well looked after when they come to our house. our daughter has NO one else she can ask as she doesn't trust anyone else (her words) also she has no friends she can call on or family members.
  14. chrissey

    chrissey New Member

    Thank you to everyone that has taken the time to reply. Your comments have been very helpful and its soooo nice to know that we are not alone, even though it has felt that way for a long time. we are taking all you have said on board and we feel empowered to move forward with our lives.
    We have detached ourselves from our daughter as this has been a survival need for us. We can't however be without those girls in our lives.
    They are our world and we adore them. we feel my daughter does need help outside the family but unless she wants help we are hitting head against the wall. She is withdrawn herself from almost everyone outside her own house.
    This xmas was one of the worse we have had. daughter started becoming unreasonable just before xmas. we arranged last year to have the girls for xmas morning, we have never done that and invited them. she said it was a great idea. i mentioned it again just before xmas this year and she said "no not now, we spending it with boyfriends parents" it broke our hearts. then when we tried to arrange a time to give the girls thier presents, every day we mentioned was suddenly not convenient for her. this went on for a while. then the one day she did say yes she changed it at the last minute and spent it with my mother who she hasnt seen for over a year and just turned up. anyway its all over now but this is why we have to back away.
  15. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Chrissey, you may want to reconsider posting pictures of your granddaughters on this forum. This is anonymous and you want to protect the anonymity of your grandkids for many reasons, in particular the way things presently are with your daughter.

    Are there Grandparents rights in England? Legal rights you have with your granddaughter's which goes through the legal system? I would find out exactly what my rights are.

    Your daughter may, like many of our kids, have some kind of a conduct disorder or mental illness, but that does not give her any kind of pass to be able to treat anybody, in particular, her parents, in a disrespectful and mean spirited way. If you have enabled her then this situation is made worse because she feels entitled to have you offer your life up on the altar of her bad choices.........don't do it.

    I am raising my 17 year old granddaughter and I have, at this point in time, virtually no relationship with my daughter who is a difficult person who has issues which keep her from being responsible for herself and having empathy for others. She doesn't see her daughter at all. I am not advocating raising your granddaughters because as much as you love them, that is a very hard choice and believe me, it can be a very difficult path all around, in particular when they hit the early teens.

    Your daughter is behaving in a cruel, selfish and manipulative way towards you and your husband. Perhaps the most logical way to deal with it is to incorporate visitation with your grandkids that you are all comfortable with, meaning you and the kids...........and then begin detaching from your daughter.
  16. chrissey

    chrissey New Member

  17. chrissey

    chrissey New Member

    thanks for advise about pics, noted!! i think she suffers from some sort of illness to behave the way she does. we have now set up seeing the girls with as little input from daughter as possible boyfriend drops them off and picks them up. daughter not there. this is the way forward. i also thought that she may even be jealous of our relationship with the girls because she has often said she felt unloved, but of course she wasnt.
  18. chrissey

    chrissey New Member

    we don't want to raise G/daughters just spend time with them without the emotional blackmail. she doesn't see the thousands time we have been there for her but only saw the two times we weren't. i know that we have a right to see those girls on seeking legal advise. we can see them. daughter has no legal reason to stop us seeing them. they are well looked after, we have been a great support network for her and the girls. they are better off with us in their lives and to stop visits would harm them.
  19. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    All in all Chrissey, you seem to have handled the whole situation in the best possible way. You are detaching from your daughter, you are able to see your granddaughter's without dealing with your daughter and you seem to have a handle on how your daughter has manipulated you using the kids. Sometimes that's as good as it gets. The fact that you are seeing the little girls is a good, positive point and seems like the most important thing. It's also good that you are clear that you don't want to raise them, but you do want to be in their lives. As they get older, they will be able to see the truth and at that point, you can talk to them more truthfully, children are very good at seeing what the truth is. You've done a good job Chrissey.
  20. chrissey

    chrissey New Member

    Thank you for saying that

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