The Saga Continues: wow....just wow. :(
- Thread starter Lil
- Start date
Jabberwockey
Well-Known Member
Did we forget something PatriotsGirl?!?!
PatriotsGirl
Well-Known Member
How odd!! My comment is at the bottom of the quote...lol.
Lil
Well-Known Member
quote="PatriotsGirl,
"Yup - that is exactly why at the rehab my daughter is in, they are off all medications until they have been clean of all substances long enough to find the true issue. They don't even allow cigarettes or caffeine."
LOL!
(I've wondered when I could ever use that emoticon.)
"Yup - that is exactly why at the rehab my daughter is in, they are off all medications until they have been clean of all substances long enough to find the true issue. They don't even allow cigarettes or caffeine."
LOL!(I've wondered when I could ever use that emoticon.)
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Lil, it actually does matter if he has Aspergers. ODD is a kind of non-disorder than underage kids get, not adults.
There are good services out there for disabled kids, if they qualify, and you wouldn't have to be the one remidning him of things. They would. But only if he was diagnosed as disabled by the state.
Lil, I always look at past behavior to predict future behavior. It usually gives me a pretty good idea of what will happen. If there are not big changes in the person's motivation or personality, their behavior tends to just recycle over and over again, frustrating us, but we can't change them.
Have you ever had him drug tested, not that drug testing is that accurate...it's not. I'm sure many of the shelter kids are drug involved.
There are good services out there for disabled kids, if they qualify, and you wouldn't have to be the one remidning him of things. They would. But only if he was diagnosed as disabled by the state.
Lil, I always look at past behavior to predict future behavior. It usually gives me a pretty good idea of what will happen. If there are not big changes in the person's motivation or personality, their behavior tends to just recycle over and over again, frustrating us, but we can't change them.
Have you ever had him drug tested, not that drug testing is that accurate...it's not. I'm sure many of the shelter kids are drug involved.
Lil
Well-Known Member
I know ODD is pretty much kids. Frankly, he ticks most of the boxes of ODD, other than being too old, but I know it's for kids, that wasn't the point. The point is he'll just use whatever as an excuse.
I guess I don't see it as mattering because it won't matter to him, except that it will give him an excuse to be a waste of space. It'll be "poor pitiful me" and nothing will change. He's an adult. He's almost 20. We can't make him DO anything.
And I guess, I just don't think he's disabled. I don't think he "can't help it". I think he just needs to grow up!
Or maybe I don't want to know that he's had real a problem all along, because that does make it our fault he's like this.
Again, he really wasn't a difficult child until he was 17. We had no reason then, and still don't have any reason, to suspect anything besides pot or it's synthetic. Now that he's almost 20, we can't "have him" drug tested. I know it's not an alcohol problem, he's terrified of needles, and he wouldn't take narcotics when they were prescribed and legal because he didn't like how they made him feel. That's all we've got.
Well, for what it's worth, my daughter is 42 and I still don't know what the actual issue is, there is no name, I can't actually say she is bi-polar, or a narcissist or depressed..........there is something going on, but she has never admitted it nor gone for a diagnoses. The end result is the same, whatever they are doing, WE are the ones who need to alter our thinking and WE are the ones who need to detach and accept what is. Whatever what is, is. Trying to understand the why of it is a natural and understandable part of this path, however, the truth is, many of us will never find out why. It just is. And, as their parents, we have to make choices as to how we are going to deal with them and their behavior.
Letting go of trying to understand it is so hard. I went for years and years trying to figure it out, find a name for it, I thought it would then make sense and there would be a legitimate answer, a solution, a path I could follow which would then make it all okay. I couldn't find an answer. There was no solution.
The answer for me was to set boundaries and to let go. The rest, for me, stopped mattering. She is who she is. At 42, she is still who she is. But, I've changed. And that changed everything.
Letting go of trying to understand it is so hard. I went for years and years trying to figure it out, find a name for it, I thought it would then make sense and there would be a legitimate answer, a solution, a path I could follow which would then make it all okay. I couldn't find an answer. There was no solution.
The answer for me was to set boundaries and to let go. The rest, for me, stopped mattering. She is who she is. At 42, she is still who she is. But, I've changed. And that changed everything.
Of course, when they are young, we have to keep looking for answers, but once a certain age is reached and they refuse to get help, we no longer have any control and there comes a point where letting go is the only option left.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Lil, I didn't think my daughter was doing anything other than pot either.
Just a thought: Our adult kids (and younger ones) hang out with kids who do what they do. If he is hanging with drug user, he is at high risk to be using drugs. There are many kinds of medications. My daughter liked stimulants. Most are not injected drugs.
Most adult kids are lazy for a reason and pot makes you lazy. Also synthetic pot could kill him, as Jabber knows.
If it were me, and I know I'm not, if I even suspected there was any pot/synthetic pot use, that would also be a dealbreaker. What difference does it make what it's called if it can cause so much damage? We, not just you, worry about them getting cold or hungry, but often we don't worry about what they put into their bodies...or we just don't want to know (I didn't want to know). I'm glad I didn't know until after she quit, to be honest.
However, we did not fund her living after we knew about the pot, which turned out to be far more than pot.
If he started acting up at seventeen, that could have been the age he first used drugs.
I'm not saying he does for sure. I'm just saying it is likely...most of our failure-to-launch kids do and that's part of the problem. Also, many of us don't find out until they are suddenly busted and we are in shock.
I hope this is not the case with your son. But I know denial isn't just a river in Egypt because I swam down it myself.
If he is dabbling a lot with anything, even pot, it may be a good idea to tell him he needs to go to rehab to get anything from you. If he is using at all, whatever it is is ruining his life. Impromptu triips to the apartment could be good. He should have no problem answering right away. "Oh, hold on, I'll be there in a minute!" is a red flag that he and his buddies are hiding stuff from you. Maybe you should have a key and just check in on him without notice. For sure it' a lack of privacy, but it could also save their lives. I used to check my daughter's bedroom top to bottom. After she broke the law, she had no privacy. Oh, the stuff we found!!
We are fighting for the lives of our children. I thought my daughter was going to end up in prison or die once I realized what was going on, although never in a million years would I ever have agreed that she was using meth. I would have gotten angry and, at the same time, laughed as in, "She's not THAT stupid." I did not believe s he stole her brothers ADHD medications either. Oh, denial, denial, denial. Her friends were all losers...that should have been my clue, but I didn't want to think MY daughter was like they were. Until I had no choice anymore.
Be mindful. Keep your eyes opened. I like you and Jabber and your son. I don't want anything bad to happen, Know what I mean??
Just a thought: Our adult kids (and younger ones) hang out with kids who do what they do. If he is hanging with drug user, he is at high risk to be using drugs. There are many kinds of medications. My daughter liked stimulants. Most are not injected drugs.
Most adult kids are lazy for a reason and pot makes you lazy. Also synthetic pot could kill him, as Jabber knows.
If it were me, and I know I'm not, if I even suspected there was any pot/synthetic pot use, that would also be a dealbreaker. What difference does it make what it's called if it can cause so much damage? We, not just you, worry about them getting cold or hungry, but often we don't worry about what they put into their bodies...or we just don't want to know (I didn't want to know). I'm glad I didn't know until after she quit, to be honest.
However, we did not fund her living after we knew about the pot, which turned out to be far more than pot.
If he started acting up at seventeen, that could have been the age he first used drugs.
I'm not saying he does for sure. I'm just saying it is likely...most of our failure-to-launch kids do and that's part of the problem. Also, many of us don't find out until they are suddenly busted and we are in shock.
I hope this is not the case with your son. But I know denial isn't just a river in Egypt because I swam down it myself.
If he is dabbling a lot with anything, even pot, it may be a good idea to tell him he needs to go to rehab to get anything from you. If he is using at all, whatever it is is ruining his life. Impromptu triips to the apartment could be good. He should have no problem answering right away. "Oh, hold on, I'll be there in a minute!" is a red flag that he and his buddies are hiding stuff from you. Maybe you should have a key and just check in on him without notice. For sure it' a lack of privacy, but it could also save their lives. I used to check my daughter's bedroom top to bottom. After she broke the law, she had no privacy. Oh, the stuff we found!!
We are fighting for the lives of our children. I thought my daughter was going to end up in prison or die once I realized what was going on, although never in a million years would I ever have agreed that she was using meth. I would have gotten angry and, at the same time, laughed as in, "She's not THAT stupid." I did not believe s he stole her brothers ADHD medications either. Oh, denial, denial, denial. Her friends were all losers...that should have been my clue, but I didn't want to think MY daughter was like they were. Until I had no choice anymore.
Be mindful. Keep your eyes opened. I like you and Jabber and your son. I don't want anything bad to happen, Know what I mean??
Lil
Well-Known Member
Okay again, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?
I can't change him.
I can't make him not do drugs.
I can't do a freaking THING about any of this!
Isn't that the first thing I'm supposed to learn to "detach".
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving another person "the space" to be herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.
* Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place or thing....
Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/community/threads/article-on-detachment.53639/#ixzz3OFuj7RoF
We HAVE to pay for the apartment if he doesn't. I've already SAID I'm not paying for Another. Single. Thing.
Duh.
I'm NOT in denial. I KNOW he is AT LEAST smoking pot or K2 or something. But HE doesn't admit a problem, WE can't force a drug test on him, and even if we could he's an ADULT. We can't force him into rehab and forcing any adult into rehab never did any good anyway.
It doesn't matter if he's smoking crack - I CAN'T STOP IT. Really? What do you think I can do short of calling the police, IF I manage to actually catch him in the act of doing drugs?
Please don't think I'm angry at you. I'm NOT. I'm just starting to get frustrated by "distance yourself, detach, he's an adult, let him go, radically accept" messages on one hand and the "OMG he's doing drugs you must act" messages on the other. I can't do both!
And please, quit acting like I don't know synthetic pot can kill you. I've said it myself, over and over and over on these threads, that it's MUCH worse than the real thing and scary stuff. I don't need to be reminded or told.
Please, if you have an actual suggestion of something I can DO, tell me - Please! Because short of watching him slowly go down the drain, I've got NOTHING here!
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You've done what you can to help him and now you are prepared to tell him no more help. This may take some time to sink into his brain, I know it did for my son. It took a good year before he realized I was serious. I guess he thought since I had helped before that it was just a matter of time before I caved in.
It's just so hard to watch someone that has so much potential do nothing to better themselves or their situation but bottom line, it's their choice and their life.
At least you both know you have given him every chance to turn his life around.
It's just so hard to watch someone that has so much potential do nothing to better themselves or their situation but bottom line, it's their choice and their life.
At least you both know you have given him every chance to turn his life around.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Yes, agree. I'm really sorry.
I couldn't do anything either.
I couldn't do anything either.
Lil
Well-Known Member
(LOL - in a sad kind of way) I'm sorry...you posted while I was re-reading mine and it sounds so harsh...but I just kind of lost it there for a minute.
I WANT to fix him! I want that so bad I can taste it! But I can't. You folks have been telling me I can't for months now.
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Jabberwockey
Well-Known Member
Just so we are all clear on the drug issue. We know for a fact that he smokes pot. He loves his pot in point of fact. We also know for a fact that he has smoked synthetic pot on MANY different occasions. Found too many potpourri packets in his room and in the vehicle he was using to be able to deny it. He started smoking the synthetic as a way to beat drug testing while job hunting. Is he doing other drugs? Quite possibly but we don't know for sure and he sure as hell wont admit it to us so there is no point in pursuing it.
I have a key so we could go there at any time. I don't want to do this. We represent THE MAN way too much already. It would be entirely too easy for me to switch to cop mode and for him to hate me for it. At this point, what we really need is some distance. If we are there its a chance for him to beg and whine which means its a chance for us to cave to the pressure. We are going to have a talk with him on Saturday and remind him that NOTHING has changed. He still owes rent come February 1st so he needs to get himself another job. We are going to remind him that if he wants food then he needs to go to the shelter at meal time and/or to the food pantry. If he needs money for ANYTHING then refer back to the whole get himself another job. I am financially responsible for the apartment, no way of getting around it. I signed the lease so I either pay if he doesn't or face the consequences. Since I'm big on owning up and facing the consequences, I will be paying, if needed, and facing the consequences of the arrangement we made with our son.
If I have learned nothing else during my time in Corrrections, I've learned that you CAN NOT force someone else to change, admit their mistakes, do something, not do something unless they want to. For whatever reason, our son currently doesn't seem to want to work. Over the next several months he will fact the consequences of this decision which will culminate in him being homeless again as of June 1st unless during that time HE changes his mind about how he should act.
I value your opinion MWM but the simple fact of the matter is that Lil and I are in a position to do one of three things for our son right now. Enable, Jack, or Squat. We're choosing to do two of those three while focusing on getting our lives back. We CAN NOT spend the next several months worrying about what condition our son may or may not have or what drugs he may or may not be using. And I was wrong earlier, there is one other thing we can chose to do for our son. Hope.
I have a key so we could go there at any time. I don't want to do this. We represent THE MAN way too much already. It would be entirely too easy for me to switch to cop mode and for him to hate me for it. At this point, what we really need is some distance. If we are there its a chance for him to beg and whine which means its a chance for us to cave to the pressure. We are going to have a talk with him on Saturday and remind him that NOTHING has changed. He still owes rent come February 1st so he needs to get himself another job. We are going to remind him that if he wants food then he needs to go to the shelter at meal time and/or to the food pantry. If he needs money for ANYTHING then refer back to the whole get himself another job. I am financially responsible for the apartment, no way of getting around it. I signed the lease so I either pay if he doesn't or face the consequences. Since I'm big on owning up and facing the consequences, I will be paying, if needed, and facing the consequences of the arrangement we made with our son.
If I have learned nothing else during my time in Corrrections, I've learned that you CAN NOT force someone else to change, admit their mistakes, do something, not do something unless they want to. For whatever reason, our son currently doesn't seem to want to work. Over the next several months he will fact the consequences of this decision which will culminate in him being homeless again as of June 1st unless during that time HE changes his mind about how he should act.
I value your opinion MWM but the simple fact of the matter is that Lil and I are in a position to do one of three things for our son right now. Enable, Jack, or Squat. We're choosing to do two of those three while focusing on getting our lives back. We CAN NOT spend the next several months worrying about what condition our son may or may not have or what drugs he may or may not be using. And I was wrong earlier, there is one other thing we can chose to do for our son. Hope.
This is probably the hardest part in dealing with our difficult child's. It's all part of the process of letting go. It's mourning the child we used to have and all the hopes and dreams that went along with that.
The emotions are not that much different than when someone you love dies. You want so desperately to have that person back but it will never happen. At least with our difficult child's there is still hope, however small. In my acceptance of my difficult child's life choices I had let go of all dreams I used to have but I do hold onto hope that someday.......... To keep my heart from hurting and my head from exploding I allow myself 1% of hope.
((HUGS)) to you!!!
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Hoping is for us, not for them.
I was actually out of hope when my daughter quit. I did not believe she would recover. Too many stops and starts and the rest.
I'm glad I was wrong.
There is ALWAYS hope.
I was actually out of hope when my daughter quit. I did not believe she would recover. Too many stops and starts and the rest.
I'm glad I was wrong.
There is ALWAYS hope.
Lil
Well-Known Member
Test number 1 was calling last night asking for rolling papers. After I bought him a pack of cigarettes and a pack of (50) papers on the 1st and two packs of cigarettes on the 3rd.
Time for test number 2.
He just called and asked for bread, cheese, lunch meat. Said he's completely out of food and has been all day and is hungry.
Today is the 8th. On the 2nd, 6 days ago, I bought him:
2 packages of mac & cheese (the kind with sauce so he didn't need milk)
5 packages Ramen noodles
2 (4?) cans chicken to put in noodles
4 or 5 breakfast microwave entrée things
1 loaf bread
1 jar peanut butter
1 jar jelly
1 package mandarin oranges (the snack packs)
Hot cocoa mix
On the 3d, 5 days ago, I bought him:
1 package of chicken nuggets
1 package (5-6) frozen chicken breast patties
1 package cheese slices
2 boxes pop tarts
Yes...there's a serious lack of anything healthy. He won't eat anything healthy so there's no real reason to buy it.
I told him no. I told him I'd bought enough food to last him until he got paid and if he gave it to other people that was not my problem. He said he hadn't...I'm so sure he wasn't letting the guy that was staying with him eat...and I said, "Well, I bought you sufficient food, I suggest you go to the food pantry. There's one right down the street."
I told him we'd all be talking on Saturday, but that we weren't buying anything else. I also suggested that when he returns his uniforms and picks up his paycheck tomorrow, he try begging for his job back. Then I went back to work. Luckily, I had people on hold, so I had an excellent excuse to hang up.
I wish I felt better about all this. I was happier yesterday when I was filled with righteous indignation about being duped. Now I'm reading about Asperger's and feeling more tired and sad and kind of ... not mean... unfeeling I guess. And I need to work. I really, really, need to work!
He's not the only one who would use the "It's not my fault". I know that "It's not his fault" would creep into my thinking.
Time for test number 2.
He just called and asked for bread, cheese, lunch meat. Said he's completely out of food and has been all day and is hungry.
Today is the 8th. On the 2nd, 6 days ago, I bought him:
2 packages of mac & cheese (the kind with sauce so he didn't need milk)
5 packages Ramen noodles
2 (4?) cans chicken to put in noodles
4 or 5 breakfast microwave entrée things
1 loaf bread
1 jar peanut butter
1 jar jelly
1 package mandarin oranges (the snack packs)
Hot cocoa mix
On the 3d, 5 days ago, I bought him:
1 package of chicken nuggets
1 package (5-6) frozen chicken breast patties
1 package cheese slices
2 boxes pop tarts
Yes...there's a serious lack of anything healthy. He won't eat anything healthy so there's no real reason to buy it.
I told him no. I told him I'd bought enough food to last him until he got paid and if he gave it to other people that was not my problem. He said he hadn't...I'm so sure he wasn't letting the guy that was staying with him eat...and I said, "Well, I bought you sufficient food, I suggest you go to the food pantry. There's one right down the street."
I told him we'd all be talking on Saturday, but that we weren't buying anything else. I also suggested that when he returns his uniforms and picks up his paycheck tomorrow, he try begging for his job back. Then I went back to work. Luckily, I had people on hold, so I had an excellent excuse to hang up.
I wish I felt better about all this. I was happier yesterday when I was filled with righteous indignation about being duped. Now I'm reading about Asperger's and feeling more tired and sad and kind of ... not mean... unfeeling I guess. And I need to work. I really, really, need to work!
He's not the only one who would use the "It's not my fault". I know that "It's not his fault" would creep into my thinking.
Lil, it sounds to me like you bought plenty of food. When I was in a similar situation with my difficult child I too purchased enough food to last. I know for a fact he did not have anyone else staying with him, he was the only one eating the food and he would run out 4 or 5 days before he should have. I even wrote out for him what he should eat each day to make it last. Come to find out all the pot he was smoking was giving him the "munchies" and he would go to town on the food. Perhaps this is what is going on with your son. Just a thought.
Good for you for standing your ground and telling him no.
Good for you for standing your ground and telling him no.
