R
runawaybunny
Guest
Congratulations to Martie and her team from Loyola University for the completion of the Outcomes of Adults with Childhood EBD analysis.
The study results are in: Outcomes of Adults with Childhood EBD
meowbunny
New Member
Wow! Good report. Thank you for doing and sharing this with us, Marty. The one thing that stuck out to me and truly saddened me was the fact what we parents are willing to accept as "successful."
It would be interesting to see what initial goals for our children were for each age group and how they dropped over time and what was ultimately acceptable. I know that has drastically changed for me from college education and white-collar job to AA or trade school to high school graduation to GED to job that will give her enough money to live on her own. None of that has happened, yet, she is somewhat successful in that she's not on drugs or living on the street. She must have a roommate as she couldn't afford even a $600/month apartment on her own. So very sad and, yet, I'm proud of the person she is becoming. I know that none of my friends or even her classmates would consider her successful. I, however, do.
Again, thank you. It is an interesting study with some good suggestions at the end. I do wonder what could have been accomplished for my daughter had the school not fought me tooth and nail to provide even minimal assistance.
It would be interesting to see what initial goals for our children were for each age group and how they dropped over time and what was ultimately acceptable. I know that has drastically changed for me from college education and white-collar job to AA or trade school to high school graduation to GED to job that will give her enough money to live on her own. None of that has happened, yet, she is somewhat successful in that she's not on drugs or living on the street. She must have a roommate as she couldn't afford even a $600/month apartment on her own. So very sad and, yet, I'm proud of the person she is becoming. I know that none of my friends or even her classmates would consider her successful. I, however, do.
Again, thank you. It is an interesting study with some good suggestions at the end. I do wonder what could have been accomplished for my daughter had the school not fought me tooth and nail to provide even minimal assistance.
Big Bad Kitty
lolcat
Yay! I have the secret handshake!
Very interesting report. I only scanned it so far. I will delve further into it later.
Very interesting report. I only scanned it so far. I will delve further into it later.
R
runawaybunny
Guest
The download issues were my fault, I goofed up the permissions. The downloads should work now.
DDD
Well-Known Member
I had no problem accessing the report. Yeah!
The results are interesting and certainly the presentation is excellent.
Somehow I couldn't help but think "preaching to the choir". The older I get the more frustrating it is that "the system" doesn't incorporate the current informed data and alter the services offered.
Thanks so much for caring and sharing. DDD
The results are interesting and certainly the presentation is excellent.
Somehow I couldn't help but think "preaching to the choir". The older I get the more frustrating it is that "the system" doesn't incorporate the current informed data and alter the services offered.
Thanks so much for caring and sharing. DDD
Hi everyone,
Sorry I am so late to respond...
I am glad you found the result interesting...I found them depressing for some of the reasons you stated. No one mentioned the EXPULSION RATE. How do our kids get expelled from GRADE SCHOOL (11%
---High school I know how it happens but the rate (20%) is unacceptably high.
The decision to let each of you decide what "success" means probably caused some "noise" in the data that limited the statistical results. However, I still agree with my own decision in that if I had used "general" success criteria, the only successful adults would have been the 19 who we believe ARE successful in the typical sense based on other answers. THAT would have limited the findings even more ( (a 19 to 82 ratio of success to nonsuccess.) I hope to get this published as an article in a scholarly journal, but I always put things here first, and yes, I am preaching to the choir for sure.
Thanks to all of you who participated.
Martie
Sorry I am so late to respond...
I am glad you found the result interesting...I found them depressing for some of the reasons you stated. No one mentioned the EXPULSION RATE. How do our kids get expelled from GRADE SCHOOL (11%
---High school I know how it happens but the rate (20%) is unacceptably high.The decision to let each of you decide what "success" means probably caused some "noise" in the data that limited the statistical results. However, I still agree with my own decision in that if I had used "general" success criteria, the only successful adults would have been the 19 who we believe ARE successful in the typical sense based on other answers. THAT would have limited the findings even more ( (a 19 to 82 ratio of success to nonsuccess.) I hope to get this published as an article in a scholarly journal, but I always put things here first, and yes, I am preaching to the choir for sure.
Thanks to all of you who participated.
Martie
DDD
Well-Known Member
How I wish educators could "get it"! I am very thankful that there are caring, introspective and intellectual participants like you.
This week I am again outraged by the choices of our School Board. They have blatantly demonstrated their lack of concern about those who need help. How?? They have decided (by a close vote which is better than unanimously) to fund an IB school program in our county. The IB program is "needed" so that "our brightest" are prepared to compete in the top college environments upon graduation.
WHAT?????????
My easy child/difficult child was in the "gifted" program before he left high school. As a "gifted" student he got the following: (1) One high school course that was basically library science and 'available' to gifted students only. (2)
A monthly "lunch in the media center" for gifted students so they could share any issues or problems they had being gifted. He dropped out of school.
My AS, difficult child has had "social skills" in his IEP since fifth grade. He is now in 11th grade and there is NO money for support programs. If he did not have us.......he would be a dropout.
The budget is reduced for next year "due to monetary constraints" and will result in a reduction in staff in the various schools.
WHERE is the IB money coming from?? The budget! WHY do fewer than thirty students need to be prepared for possible admission to Harvard
why the drop out rate soars??????
It makes me sick! DDD
Again, thanks to you and your compatriots!
This week I am again outraged by the choices of our School Board. They have blatantly demonstrated their lack of concern about those who need help. How?? They have decided (by a close vote which is better than unanimously) to fund an IB school program in our county. The IB program is "needed" so that "our brightest" are prepared to compete in the top college environments upon graduation.
WHAT?????????
My easy child/difficult child was in the "gifted" program before he left high school. As a "gifted" student he got the following: (1) One high school course that was basically library science and 'available' to gifted students only. (2)
A monthly "lunch in the media center" for gifted students so they could share any issues or problems they had being gifted. He dropped out of school.
My AS, difficult child has had "social skills" in his IEP since fifth grade. He is now in 11th grade and there is NO money for support programs. If he did not have us.......he would be a dropout.
The budget is reduced for next year "due to monetary constraints" and will result in a reduction in staff in the various schools.
WHERE is the IB money coming from?? The budget! WHY do fewer than thirty students need to be prepared for possible admission to Harvard
why the drop out rate soars??????
It makes me sick! DDD
Again, thanks to you and your compatriots!
DDD,
It makes me sick also. It is a violation of Federal law to cut Special Education funds that are "needed" to deliver FAPE. It is difficult to determine how this is being done, however, because "programs" not individuals are funded in gen ed. whereas costs for Special Education depend on what is decided to be FAPE.
in my opinion the drop out rate is going up due to NCLB. One of the clearest findings we got is that STAYING IN SCHOOL MATTERS....as I said, that might seem like a "Well, yeah..." but there is ENCOURAGEMENT of "our" kids and "at-risk" kids to drop out and that leads directly to (according to what we found) drugs, alcohol and criminality...not great predictors of success.
Thanks for your comments.
Martie
It makes me sick also. It is a violation of Federal law to cut Special Education funds that are "needed" to deliver FAPE. It is difficult to determine how this is being done, however, because "programs" not individuals are funded in gen ed. whereas costs for Special Education depend on what is decided to be FAPE.
in my opinion the drop out rate is going up due to NCLB. One of the clearest findings we got is that STAYING IN SCHOOL MATTERS....as I said, that might seem like a "Well, yeah..." but there is ENCOURAGEMENT of "our" kids and "at-risk" kids to drop out and that leads directly to (according to what we found) drugs, alcohol and criminality...not great predictors of success.
Thanks for your comments.
Martie
meowbunny
New Member
Martie, I totally agree. My daughter was one of those who was pretty much set up to drop out with a huge sigh of relief from the school and school district. For her, it was for two reasons -- her behavior was over the top in class disruptions and they had to deal with me and I happened to know the law, so they were hard-pressed to do something.
I would never have thought I would consider my child a success if she dropped out of a high school, but given the alternatives, she is. She's working full-time, just signed her first lease for an apartment. She's not on drugs and, so far, not drinking. She pays her taxes and is law abiding. Obviously, I'm not sure if she'll continue on the straight and narrow on her own. I'll just have to hope and be here for as much as possible. But, for now, she is a success. I think you did the right thing in considering a child successful who is not in jail or probation, not using, basically living a productive life.
As to the expulsion rate, I really do understand it. My daughter was lucky that her elementary school principal worked hard to help her. She was extremely violent up to and including throwing chairs and desks across the room. In many schools she would have been expelled and I would have understood had that happened. In her school, she was never even suspended. The worst was she spent the day in the office outside of the principal's office doing her class work. There was nothing in her record to show how disruptive and dangerous she could be. In grade school she truly didn't need an IEP because her principal went of her way to accommodate and help my daughter as much as was humanly possible. I wish all parents were blessed with a principal like her.
Thank you for all of your work in this. I hope it is published. It might open at least one pair of eyes that our kids do not come from hopeless home situations and that the parents really are doing the very best they can to help their children.
I would never have thought I would consider my child a success if she dropped out of a high school, but given the alternatives, she is. She's working full-time, just signed her first lease for an apartment. She's not on drugs and, so far, not drinking. She pays her taxes and is law abiding. Obviously, I'm not sure if she'll continue on the straight and narrow on her own. I'll just have to hope and be here for as much as possible. But, for now, she is a success. I think you did the right thing in considering a child successful who is not in jail or probation, not using, basically living a productive life.
As to the expulsion rate, I really do understand it. My daughter was lucky that her elementary school principal worked hard to help her. She was extremely violent up to and including throwing chairs and desks across the room. In many schools she would have been expelled and I would have understood had that happened. In her school, she was never even suspended. The worst was she spent the day in the office outside of the principal's office doing her class work. There was nothing in her record to show how disruptive and dangerous she could be. In grade school she truly didn't need an IEP because her principal went of her way to accommodate and help my daughter as much as was humanly possible. I wish all parents were blessed with a principal like her.
Thank you for all of your work in this. I hope it is published. It might open at least one pair of eyes that our kids do not come from hopeless home situations and that the parents really are doing the very best they can to help their children.
I, too, never thought I would consider my dtr a success. She quit going to school in tenth grade, was into drugs, drinking, sex. Had to go to several rtcs and rehabs. But, she did get her GED and I consider her a success now. She is nearly 20 now, has a job, her own apartment, seems happy and confident, and has plans for her future. She has come so far from where she was just a few years ago. Being her parent has certainly been a humbling experience!
Jane
Jane
Amen. I couldn't have said it better myself.
I responded to this survey as soon as it was posted, hoping to help change things for future generations of children, in some small way.
I am happy to read the conclusion and recommendations from the study team.
Some very important points were made about working WITH parents instead of against us and that treating our children fairly is "humane and socially just" WOW - people still care about social justice? I think I just dropped a teeny little bit of bitterness and picked up a little hope.
I hope this study and others like it can be used to implement positive change. THANK YOU!
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