Things are tough

toughlovin

Well-Known Member
Hi Copa. I am thinking of you too! I am sorry your son did not come home. It is hard having my son home, but it would be harder if I didn't know where he was or if he was safe.

I had a nice evening tonight. My son did not join us but I did have fun with our friends. We were honest about the situation and so could talk about it a bit (but did not spend lots of time on it). I am pleased with myself that I did not let my son ruin our evening,

I dont think my son was punishing us. I have come to realized that he has a lot of anxiety. I think he has some social anxiety that I didn't recognize when he was young because he acted out then rather than withdrew. I do think he was selfish and self centered but then that is not really a surprise.

I did talk to him some today and I think he in his own way is trying to find his way to move on from the issues he has with this woman.

I do think he is motivated to get his life together I just dont know if he can do it without more help around his substance use.

And yeah I think sometimes the best growth does come when they do it themselves without help from us. It is hard to know.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I dont think my son was punishing us. I have come to realized that he has a lot of anxiety. I think he has some social anxiety that I didn't recognize when he was young because he acted out then rather than withdrew.
What you say makes sense to me, TL.

Not too long ago I told my son that over the years, the hard years, that I thought he did not love me anymore. He was appalled. Really felt bad. Said as much: I cannot believe you thought I didn't love you. It was about me, it was myself I did not love.

Well, how does that make me feel better, that he cannot love himself?

I do tend to take things too personally. Like he does things, on purpose.

Which leads me to the subject I have been thinking about: marijuana and mental illness.

Like your son, my own has long had anxiety. (Except I could never see it. I saw it as ADHD.) And then social anxiety, like your son. Which became body dysmorphic disorder, anxieties about his (very handsome) appearance. His depression centers on this.

We have insisted, of late, that he stop using marijuana around us. Not in the house, not under the influence. He defies us. And he lies. We came to that position because first, he uses so much of his SSI money on it, that he does not have money for food or rent (we do not charge him, but if he had to pay rent, he could not.) And then, he was buying the marijuana illegally, and the use of it, brought bad people to him. When the marijuana wore off, he was depressed and down. He could not see this. We could.

That was when we said no marijuana. And ultimately that and the fact that he was not doing anything that he had committed to, to help himself. M drew a line in the sand: get a drug test. When he did not, M told him to leave.

My son called after a couple of weeks and said he was sorry. He said that he knew he had not fulfilled any of his commitments. He said he had not used marijuana in the past 10 days or so, who knows. He called M first, and then me. Each of us said separately he could come home, that we never wanted him to leave, but that it was about the accountability. That we only wanted FOR HIM. I told him to call M to work out with him, what specifically M needed. He never did.

I can understand he wants to stay where he is for Christmas. They gave him 1 month. He had arrived there cold. They took pity. He is staying with his best friend's step mother, and her 4 adult children, all of them very productive. He admires that.

Where I am going with this is: each of us is coming at this a different way. You letting your son be, hoping that being with family, the unconditional love and support of family, will have an effect.

Me, with conditions. My son will go along with the program. I never do learn. He will pay lip service. And then do what he wants.
And then we have this drama. It kills me, and it cannot help him.

I am wondering if your way might be better. Or not? Marijuana was voted to be legal here, but the mechanisms to sell it have not yet been set up. I think that there is a big distinction between buying and using a product legally and illegally.

But really, what does what I think have to do with anything? I justify my intrusion because he is in my property when he is here.

I am wondering, and this is very painful, if he is doing the best he can. For right now. Just as is your son.

I know that M will go along with what I decide, but I am unsure what to think, what to do. (And as you have always said, this is a deeply personal decision. There are as many right things to do as difficult children, and their parents. Each of us is different.)

Like you do, I think the instability of our son's situations did not help them. While some young adults pull it together, my son did not. He is better than 4 or 5 years ago, I do not deny that, but like your own son, he has mental illness symptoms and he self-medicates.

My son has worked for us, but for nobody else, except helping.
I do think he is motivated to get his life together I just dont know if he can do it without more help around his substance use.
My son went to residential treatment for 2 months. Dual diagnosis programs. I pushed him to go. And as soon as he got out he resumed use.

In conclusion, each of us is dealing with a variation on the same theme, and approaching it differently. With the same result. Except with an important difference: your son is safe and stable with you.

I was listening to a program about homeless mentally ill, substance abusers. The single most important thing to help them, use less and manage their symptoms, and have quality of life, was, you guessed it: stable housing.

M thought, 5 years ago, that putting my son out would motivate him to sink or swim. It did not work. He found other people to depend upon, got SSI and then when he ran out of people to depend on went homeless off and on. At that point his aggression made him intolerable for me to live with.

Whether it was this experience, of needing to temper his behavior or whether it was actually improvement or maturation, I am uncertain. He will say, "I am better, Mom. My moods are better. I feel more optimistic."

But this has not translated yet into tangible results or choices beyond wanting to be comfortable with us.

TL. You were checking in, not asking to read a dissertation from me. But honestly, I am no clearer now, really, than when I began here on CD more than 18 months ago.

My son is better. I am better. But both of us, each of us, is still struggling. In some ways I think I know less, not more.

I am wondering if I need to accept him as he is, to stop pushing, making him try, and just leaving him be. With the only expectation that he work full time with M. That is a lot in itself. A year ago I would have been happy with that.

What a way to spend Christmas Eve. M is at the hospital with his father who needs surgery on his arteries. He is old. M has been with him most days and most nights for the past 4 days. So I am alone.

Watching John Wayne movies, until not even that could keep my attention away from the fact that my son has not called and I miss him.

Thank you, TL. Merry Christmas everybody.

Thank you, all.
 
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toughlovin

Well-Known Member
Copa I have no answers and many of the same questions you do. I don't think there is one right way in this journey. What I have come to realize is it is his journey and I am only a passenger watching the scenery as he drives.

I also have realized that I can only stand by for so long. I am going to see how things go the next couple of weeks. Definitely not saying anything until after New Years. But at some point I am going to have to talk to him about how and what he is doing. I don't think I can stand by and watch self destructive behavior without saying anything forever. But now is not the time.

I have heard the same thing about homelessness. I am convinced that being homeless won't help my son. We have been there and I don't want to be there again unless I have to for my own safety.

I appreciate your sharing. It seems we shave similar dilemmas!
 

Albatross

Well-Known Member
Copa and TL, this conversation resonates with me on many levels. There are no right answers, that is for sure.

Copa, I am glad that you know where your son is, and that he is with people he knows and can trust. I hope M's father's recovery goes well.
 

Maisy

Member
I wish we could all get together and have a group hug because your posts have left me teary because I am in the same situation. My son struggles with anxiety which feeds his depression and he self medicates. We pay for an apartment because I don't know if I could handle him being on the streets but paying for an apartment makes me feel like a bad, enabling parent. I know that my son wants to do better but doesn't seem to be able to sustain anything for long. We have since given up the pot lectures since all it did was cause major strife with no positive ending. He cannot smoke it at our home. He knows that he needs to regulate it and he tries but his medications that he is on only do so much ( his doctor knows he smokes pot but does not seem bothered by it). Anxiety is preventing him from moving forward. He did agree to go to some more intense counseling after the holidays. But like all of you, constantly looking for the light at the end of the tunnel. Wishing that I could stay out of it. Always wishing.....
 

RN0441

100% better than I was but not at 100% yet
Just caught up with this post ladies. Was out of town for Christmas.

My Difficult Child has anxiety too and never was comfortable socializing with anyone we had over. Even those he's known his entire life. He'd make an appearance and retreat back to his room. I felt sad for him.

TL how is your son?
 

Childofmine

one day at a time
It's so hard when our homes have a swinging door for our DCs. Do we let them live here or not? Like RE said early on, it's best when it's temporary and everybody knows it's temporary.

Think about it: We know that all grown "kids", DCs or not, need to get out on their own and learn how to make it in the world. That's no different with DCs. I personally believe that no grown adult kids need to live with their parents. It's just not a good dynamic, too much baggage, expectations and "stuff" swirling around.

But, for a time, as people need to get back on their feet for whatever reason, of course that is reasonable, I believe. (these are just my beliefs).

Right now, my 53 year old brother, who is an active alcoholic, lives with my parents. He has been there for 5 years. He has no life outside his job and drinking and our parents. He is helpful to them in their home, and respectful and there aren't any issues like stealing, etc. But he has no life, no friends, no relationships, and his drinking is getting worse and worse. This is not a good situation for anybody and it's not going to change. My parents can't set boundaries and he isn't going to leave. They are all in a sick dance that isn't good for anybody because none of them can take steps to get healthy. It is sad. It is beyond sad. I believe it is a tragic waste of human life and potential. But my brother is very sick and he doesn't see anything clearly. And my parents are almost 85. My sister and I just stand back and realize we can't do anything about this. It is very frustrating sometimes when I have to rethink it all over again. Then I let it go for a long time.

So I've seen it on both ends. My Difficult Child living here (disaster) and my brother, living there. It's just not good.

But I also realize that it is the hardest thing in the whole world to kick out our own children. I did it multiple times and I finally realized I was doing the right thing for me and for him, even though it nearly killed me.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Child of Mine, I always like your thoughts probably because we think a lot alike. Although I can see adults coming home for emergencies, like sudden unemployment, I think it can become permanent until somebody dies. And then what? And our own life then has been destroyed. And can we ever let our say 30 year old be himself or is it always parent/Child? The rebellious teen in a 30 year old body fighting his 60 to 70 year old parents who are losing their retirement years? I don't know. Does it even matter, if the parents are okay with this?

My daughter has told me her quitting was related to being out. I know it doesnt motivate all or even most difficult kids, but it gives US some peace sometimes and how long do they stay for a leg up? 50? 60? Like your brother who has no life?

Even my autistic son is in his own and has a busy life apart from us. That was important to us and he can now maintain even after we are gone. Some parents don't let go of their disabled adult kids...but they can't live forever either. Then what?

In the end though it is up to us. What can we live with? How do we see our own lives? What can we handle? Can we watch our adult kid flounder year after year in pur house, rejecting our suggestions, and still prefer he at least have our parental support? Some would rather have this dynamic and if so that is okay. We can give our experiences to one another, but we are all different and we have to make decisions we can live with. We do what we do for ourselves. It's hard. Either way it's hard. There are no single answers.

Blessings to all.
 
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