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Three Ring Circus - Not the Fun Kind
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 10380" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Jamie, a few things jump out at me.</p><p></p><p>You said, "one particular thing that has always bothered me about difficult child's actions while raging are the negative statements he makes. They are hurtful, but more importantly, I have no idea where he comes up with them. No one speaks to him like that - nor do we speak to each other like that in our household - or anywhere we go."</p><p></p><p>We have had similar problems. When I analysed the language difficult child 3 was using, it was stuff he'd had directed at him, at school. I even had a teacher (who knows us well and should have known better) write in difficult child 3's communication book, "he will not keep friends if he calls other kids '<img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/2012/censored2.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":censored2:" title="censored2 :censored2:" data-shortname=":censored2:" /> retard', you must stop him from saying things like this." Of course he wouldn't have heard terms like this at home, but the inclusion of "retard" told me that difficult child 3 had been called this by some other young charmer at school, and now HE was being blamed for apparently dreaming up the label.</p><p></p><p>What happens to out kids when they get upset or frustrated - it can blow their whole day out of the water. At the very least it can make them touchier and easier to set off. He was explaining things to you and you interrupted him to correct him. It's a task-changing thing again. Our kids HATE to be interrupted; to have to change tasks or directions; to have to stop what they're doing. of course tat have to learn to adapt to these changes, but a kid who is already on the brink of meltdown but trying to hold it together can be much more easily set off.</p><p></p><p>You said difficult child doesn't know when to stop - that's what he needs the adults around him to be able to stop. That doesn't mean the adults forcing HIM to stop, just the adults refusing to engage with this negative behaviour.</p><p></p><p>Have you read "The Explosive Child" lately? It does sound to me like in situations like this the 'hateful remarks' should be Basket B stuff. Walk away from this when he's in a rage or if it's likely to provoke one, but deal with it later when he's calmer and you're not going to set him off.</p><p></p><p>Analysing this, he was already upset when he got home, but holding it under control. He was explaining to you about his day, when you corrected him. That set him off at a lower level, t hen you consequenced him before he had calmed down enough to cope - that is what set him off. Then husband stepped in and escalated the consequences as difficult child's behaviour was also escalating.</p><p></p><p>You need to sit and talk with husband. What are the consequences for? Are they punishments? They don't usually work. Are they natural consequences, or are they likely to be interpreted as parental revenge? If the latter (which is how I would have interpreted them if I were an immature, raging difficult child) then all you're teaching him is to react with vengeance when someone wrongs him. Not a good lesson.</p><p></p><p>I do think that at the moment there are some things you need to let go. Instead of saying, "those are words I do not want to hear in this house" (which is setting you up for him to 'take vengeance on you' by deliberately aggravating you) I would ask him, "Where did you pick up those words from? Who has been talking like that to you?" In this way, you are still on his side supporting him and can be rightly indignant when he tells you he was called those names himself (highly likely).</p><p></p><p>It's hard, but do try to NOT react. If he's trying to shock you and upset you, don't let him win. NEVER let him win. But sometimes the best way to not let him win is for you to not engage in any battles that you are uncertain of winning.</p><p></p><p>I can understand husband's frustration. My husband gets like that too, sometimes, and all h*ll breaks loose. I HATE feeling like I have to be the peacemaker. Having to do that too much makes it really hard to parent consistently between the two of you. </p><p></p><p>Can you get him to read this thread with you? I really wish I could get my husband to drop in and visit for a chat with your husband. Sometimes blokes need a shoulder to cry on too, some other fella who understands.</p><p></p><p>The whole aim of this parenting game is to do the best for the child. I find it interesting that your difficult child decided to punish himself further by dragging all that stuff out - he was still raging, but was angry with himself. He had acted impulsively, given way to the anger he was trying to hold in, and had totally blotted his copy book. But as time passed he was probably feeling really bad (while still angry!) and raged at himself. I think you and husband did a good thing to put his room back together, at least with his bedding. It was a very loving thing to do, under the circumstances, and could well have helped difficult child begin to get control of himself again. And difficult child asking to talk about it - VERY good.</p><p></p><p>It sounds to me like he's a very sad, confused and probably bullied child at school. Boys his age can be really mean and it's probably a struggle to cope. Getting in trouble over the Tamagotchis - the task-changing thing again, it's probably a big reason for the school banning them. When he's calm he would understand the reasons, even if he resents them. But it sounds to me like the teachers need to be more supportive over task-changing too. I do know that when difficult child's aide focussed on supporting task-changing, difficult child's stress levels did go down. They would go right back up again if a teacher got 'heavy' on "I said, do it NOW!" which would tip difficult child 3 right over into mammoth rage out of frustration and anxiety. Then when he got home from school I had problems to deal with a great deal like this evening you had.</p><p></p><p>Good luck. It does sound to me like your son has problems he's not able to really explain to you (maybe he doesn't fully understand them himself?) and this is making your job a lot harder. But I also see signs in there of a kid who KNOWS when he's done the wrong thing, AFTER he's done it, and who is frustrated with himself. He is having trouble controlling himself but he IS trying and at times partly succeeding. He wants to be good but it's not at all easy for him and so sometimes he feels that he's just a bad kid at heart (which he isn't - he sounds to me like a very law-abiding citizen,given the chance). But life isn't always fair to our kids and it's a struggle to not only learn what is right, but to do it.</p><p></p><p>I hope you can sort out some strategies with husband and difficult child. It's too exhausting for all of you to have to go through this sort of stuff too often.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 10380, member: 1991"] Jamie, a few things jump out at me. You said, "one particular thing that has always bothered me about difficult child's actions while raging are the negative statements he makes. They are hurtful, but more importantly, I have no idea where he comes up with them. No one speaks to him like that - nor do we speak to each other like that in our household - or anywhere we go." We have had similar problems. When I analysed the language difficult child 3 was using, it was stuff he'd had directed at him, at school. I even had a teacher (who knows us well and should have known better) write in difficult child 3's communication book, "he will not keep friends if he calls other kids ':censored: retard', you must stop him from saying things like this." Of course he wouldn't have heard terms like this at home, but the inclusion of "retard" told me that difficult child 3 had been called this by some other young charmer at school, and now HE was being blamed for apparently dreaming up the label. What happens to out kids when they get upset or frustrated - it can blow their whole day out of the water. At the very least it can make them touchier and easier to set off. He was explaining things to you and you interrupted him to correct him. It's a task-changing thing again. Our kids HATE to be interrupted; to have to change tasks or directions; to have to stop what they're doing. of course tat have to learn to adapt to these changes, but a kid who is already on the brink of meltdown but trying to hold it together can be much more easily set off. You said difficult child doesn't know when to stop - that's what he needs the adults around him to be able to stop. That doesn't mean the adults forcing HIM to stop, just the adults refusing to engage with this negative behaviour. Have you read "The Explosive Child" lately? It does sound to me like in situations like this the 'hateful remarks' should be Basket B stuff. Walk away from this when he's in a rage or if it's likely to provoke one, but deal with it later when he's calmer and you're not going to set him off. Analysing this, he was already upset when he got home, but holding it under control. He was explaining to you about his day, when you corrected him. That set him off at a lower level, t hen you consequenced him before he had calmed down enough to cope - that is what set him off. Then husband stepped in and escalated the consequences as difficult child's behaviour was also escalating. You need to sit and talk with husband. What are the consequences for? Are they punishments? They don't usually work. Are they natural consequences, or are they likely to be interpreted as parental revenge? If the latter (which is how I would have interpreted them if I were an immature, raging difficult child) then all you're teaching him is to react with vengeance when someone wrongs him. Not a good lesson. I do think that at the moment there are some things you need to let go. Instead of saying, "those are words I do not want to hear in this house" (which is setting you up for him to 'take vengeance on you' by deliberately aggravating you) I would ask him, "Where did you pick up those words from? Who has been talking like that to you?" In this way, you are still on his side supporting him and can be rightly indignant when he tells you he was called those names himself (highly likely). It's hard, but do try to NOT react. If he's trying to shock you and upset you, don't let him win. NEVER let him win. But sometimes the best way to not let him win is for you to not engage in any battles that you are uncertain of winning. I can understand husband's frustration. My husband gets like that too, sometimes, and all h*ll breaks loose. I HATE feeling like I have to be the peacemaker. Having to do that too much makes it really hard to parent consistently between the two of you. Can you get him to read this thread with you? I really wish I could get my husband to drop in and visit for a chat with your husband. Sometimes blokes need a shoulder to cry on too, some other fella who understands. The whole aim of this parenting game is to do the best for the child. I find it interesting that your difficult child decided to punish himself further by dragging all that stuff out - he was still raging, but was angry with himself. He had acted impulsively, given way to the anger he was trying to hold in, and had totally blotted his copy book. But as time passed he was probably feeling really bad (while still angry!) and raged at himself. I think you and husband did a good thing to put his room back together, at least with his bedding. It was a very loving thing to do, under the circumstances, and could well have helped difficult child begin to get control of himself again. And difficult child asking to talk about it - VERY good. It sounds to me like he's a very sad, confused and probably bullied child at school. Boys his age can be really mean and it's probably a struggle to cope. Getting in trouble over the Tamagotchis - the task-changing thing again, it's probably a big reason for the school banning them. When he's calm he would understand the reasons, even if he resents them. But it sounds to me like the teachers need to be more supportive over task-changing too. I do know that when difficult child's aide focussed on supporting task-changing, difficult child's stress levels did go down. They would go right back up again if a teacher got 'heavy' on "I said, do it NOW!" which would tip difficult child 3 right over into mammoth rage out of frustration and anxiety. Then when he got home from school I had problems to deal with a great deal like this evening you had. Good luck. It does sound to me like your son has problems he's not able to really explain to you (maybe he doesn't fully understand them himself?) and this is making your job a lot harder. But I also see signs in there of a kid who KNOWS when he's done the wrong thing, AFTER he's done it, and who is frustrated with himself. He is having trouble controlling himself but he IS trying and at times partly succeeding. He wants to be good but it's not at all easy for him and so sometimes he feels that he's just a bad kid at heart (which he isn't - he sounds to me like a very law-abiding citizen,given the chance). But life isn't always fair to our kids and it's a struggle to not only learn what is right, but to do it. I hope you can sort out some strategies with husband and difficult child. It's too exhausting for all of you to have to go through this sort of stuff too often. Marg [/QUOTE]
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