Time to cut off from my FOO?

Discussion in 'Family of Origin' started by Lioness, Aug 26, 2015.

  1. Lioness

    Lioness Lioness

    I have been reading as many posts as possible on Family of Origin. I feel like I have been asleep for my 50 plus years. My sister and I are not close. My mum always played divide and rule. She favoured my sister although she psychologically & physically abused us equally. My sister is older than me and has always patronised me & spoken down to me. She is rude, condescending. Spiteful, opinionated and judgmental. She has no kids and has always criticised my child rearing. I was always popular growing up yet she is & was always sullen and moody. She has always been very competitive with me & jealous. My mum and her always excluded me from their little circle whispering in corners. My mum cut me out of her life 25 years ago as she wanted me to choose between my husband & kids or her! My sister is hyper critical and likes to Lord it over me. When my daughter her God daughter was expecting her first child at the baby shower my sister told everyone that there were too many children in the world & animals are better! Recently my youngest got a first class degree and a great job. My sister was nasty about her achievement trying to put her down! This is the final straw. She has done it to me for years. I refuse to allow her toxic poisonous ways on my children. IAm so angry with her. I have never protected used from this toxicity but I can't stand back & allow it to continue against my kids. My Dad is getting old and I only have contact with her when he visits from Greece once a year. She never calls even when I had a cancer scare last year. Also this year I have been very unwell yet she a never called. Is it bad of me to cut her out of my life? Am I behaving like my own mum who did the same to me? I don't want to repeat this family pattern. But I always feel angry and upset when I see her. I feel sorry for her as she has no kids and I know she resents me for having 3. She told me so. She will never change and I feel that no good ever comes from our meeting. She lives 10 minutes away but she never calls or visits me. I think I have had a lightbulb moment. I always call her she never calls me. It's time to stop contact. Should I be honest with her and tell her why? Or just stop contacting her?
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi there and welcome to our FOO forum, which started out with three of us just talking about our pasts.

    Look, I have taken a long journey with this and I will give you my perspective.

    It does not sound as if much is going on, as far as a relationship, with your father at all. You can talk to him when he calls, if you like, or not talk to him if he is abusive or has been in the past. As for your sister, if you see her as not good for your children, then she shouldn't be around them. Or you if she is not respectful to you. It took me years to wake up and realize that I deserve to be treated with respect, and I'm sorry I didn't see it sooner. I do not have contact with my sister or brother, who are almost the only FOO I have, but I have a warm, loving family with my husband and children. I don't want to mess that up by their toxic attitude toward me in my life. I think they are no contact with ME too...lol. But my sister has a thing about always coming back.

    This time I will not allow it. She recently texted me and my phone blocks her, but I accidentally found out it goes into some spam place in my phone. I saw the message's first two words and thankfully my wallpaper covered up the rest of it and I deleted it before reading it. I have no idea what it said. I have no desire to know. This time she can not come back, bait me if that was what the text was about, beg forgiveness on the oft chance that that was what the post was about (she would never be able to maintain a stable relationship with me, even if she meant to), and if there was news of my only living relative I speak to, my elderly father, I would find out.

    We all have to decide how to handle these things. My mother was ghastly to me and disowned me, but since she passed on her feelings to my siblings and they treat me like she did in their own ways (they are both very different people, but boh heavily influenced by my mother who clearly disliked me), they can't be in my world. I don't need their criticism and bad ideas about me that they think are true, but aren't. I just don't need THEM. Even if I am doing the same thing my mother did, it is because of my mother and I don't want to have people in my life that I have to worry about. My life is pretty serene and cozy. I am careful whom is allowed into my world. I moved fifteen years ago and a huge part of that was the serenity of where I live and getting away from my sister, who was constantly calling the cops on us for ridiculous reasons.

    It is nice to be in our own sanctuary.

    Now you have to think about what you want and what you can tolerate. I finally had enough and my sister and brother have said good-bye to me forever, whether they know it or not. They will never be allowed back into my life for any reason. If you don't want that sort of finality, you can do low contact, but try to demand respect from everybody you are in contact with. You matter a lot and do not deserve to be treated like when you are unwell it is not important. It is important. You find out who your real friends and loved ones are when you are sick and when you have problems. The fakers run f or the hills. Sometimes, and very hurtfully, they are family who don't accept us as we are. But then we know the truth...they are not really loved ones and although they are our DNA mates, they are sometimes not even really family, in the sense that family is meant to be.

    Any decision you make is right for you. Do not let others make you feel small. No human being deserves that.

    If you discontinue contact with sister and she will start an abusive fight with you if you tell her or beg you that she will be nice from now on, it may just be better to slowly pull away. Don't answer when she calls. Low contact. Or send a letter, but expect drama. You know your sister best.

    Hugs and keep posting. We post a lot here :)
  3. Lioness

    Lioness Lioness

    As always you put things into perspective for me. Thanks. I have always tried and tried with my sister but enough is enough. I have decided to keep low contact. Every time I see her I feel like crap after. Her words swirl around in my head and I get angry with myself for allowing this to go on. I don't want to have a big showdown with her. I refuse to allow her to treat my adult kids the way she treats me. It goes against my natural instinct which is family first but my family is my Husband and my 3 kids and his 2 kids and our grand daughter not forgetting the cat too! I don't want her toxicity to destroy me and mine.
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    That's how I feel.

    Who wants a big showdown?

    Who wants to feel like crapola every time you are with somebody?

    I did, I guess, but I don't anymore.

    Actually, the more I got to know the real Sister (she is good at hiding herself) the less I liked her and the more I saw how weak she is as a person. That actually disappointed me. I wanted somebody strong in our family, but it's not to be.

    I fortunately never got close enough to Sis or her kids nor let her close to MY kids to have her in t heir lives. My grown children have seen her enough not to like her. My oldest son says he'll call the cops on HER if she ever calls him. He is the most vocal about her...yes, she used to call the cops on me all the time to shut me up, which makes her a risk to me. Do I want to risk her anger and the cops at my door, even though the cops won't do anything to me and will think she is crazy? No. I don't want to see the cops again. Haha, the funny thing is my daughter is going into Criminal Justice. One day Sis may call Daughter...haha. J/k. She won't have any reason to because she will not be in touch with me. My second oldest child thinks Sis gives off a weird vibe. She had Thanksgiving with us once and she told me flat out she did not want her over again. And this was my Sister trying to be nice, but s he weirded out my daughter. My youngest two never knew her, but know what she has done to me and are protective of me.

    I am so glad my FOO really never met my kids. My mother was kind to me, making sure THAT never happened!!!

    Your sister has no business messing with your kids. Telling her won't stop her so don't bother, but she doesn't have any business doing it. What a brat!
  5. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    I have found low-contact to be less controversial than no-contact. It doesn't work for all FOO situations, so do whatever works for you... and the rest of your immediate family (kids and spouse and whoever else you want to include)
  6. Lioness

    Lioness Lioness

    What a brat! That she certainly is! I have tried and tried. She will never change. I have been a fool for so long The Waltons do not exist. My kids have put up with her for my sake but Iam drawing the line now. This visit from my Dad will be his last and I don't need to please him or anyone else anymore. I am going to be loyal and loving to those that love me back. For a long time I have felt unlovable and unloved by my FOO and it's time to give up. Only my Grandmother who passed away in 1998 was a loving person who was loved by everybody as she was a happy, pure hearted soul. My own mother (her daughter) despised my grandmother for being "weak" and said that I was too much like my Grandmother. Well that's a compliment. To be loving and kind is "weak" how messed up is that?! Thank you for helping me detach enough is enough.
  7. Lioness

    Lioness Lioness

    I am going to concentrate my love on those who appreciate and love me in return. My kids and husband, cat and friends who all love me. Thank you for the support. Can't believe it suddenly clicked for me yesterday. Iam relieved.
  8. Lioness

    Lioness Lioness

    Why didn't I ever know about FOO before? I would have saved myself a great deal of anguish. The guilt that overwhelmed me in the past trying and trying only to be rejected by my mum and sister. There's nothing wrong with me. It's their problem not mine anymore. A weight has been lifted. Thankyou all.
  9. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I think most of us think that becsuse they raised us or lived with us that we owe them, even if they are not nice to us. Also who doesnt want the television version of a family? The problem is, it is so uncommon. But its hard to let go of the dream. In my case I was scapegoated since I was little and it took me well until my 30s to figure out that abuse is always the fault of the parent. Kids do not abuse on purpose. Loving parents are supposed to teach us how and how not to behave. If they dont, they are at fault, not the minor child.

    In my case, I was screamed at a lot and called names and told things a good mother would know not to do. But after the labeling of me as baaaaaaaad, she never gave any consequences beyond shaming me. It was confusing, and I was a tempermental, depressed and angry kid as it was. I needed love and understanding and validation that I could do well and structure and to be taight boundaries.

    Instead, our house was chaotic. All three kids turned out to feel unworthy of love, even her gplden child. Her handiwork was unstable adults.

    Im glad I started my recovery path early. I think I figured out what was going on young, but it was a long time before I realized I am a complete and worthwhile person without foo and their love and approval. I wanted to love them and to have them love me back but honestly they dont accept me. And I dont care. Nor do I accept things they do and have done.

    We dont have to love thise who randomly share our dna and they dont have to love us, and rifts are common. Even cut offs. We are better off in my opinion saving our hearts for those who want them.

    I hope you have agreat day. I have to work:)
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I did this with my mom. I called her to try to make amends and figured that if he chose not to, that it was on her, not me. But I really did want to try and, of course, it failed. She never called me once for a period of about ten years. I called her to try to keep a connection that she didn't want and that I was unsatisfied with and I'm not quite sure why I didn't catch on sooner that having her in my life, the way she thought about me, was unhealthy to me and even for her as I let her practice her toxic ways. Now she was not toxic to her "golden people." She worshipped some people and despised others. That is black and white thinking, which is characteristic of personality disorders. These mothers worship one child (my brother) and blame everything bad that happens on another one (me) a nd sometimes ignores another one completely (lost child Sister). They don't seem to understand treating all the children equally with the same amount of kindness and love. Of course, all kids are different, but we all need equal amounts of love.

    Her Golden Child has never had a live-in relationship. Ever. In over 50 years.

    My sister tried very hard to get my mother's approval and sh e did, but I'm not sure if it was good or bad for her. She is unable to pick emotionally available men and has never had a successful love relationship. She tends to pick abusive men or men unavailable in other ways, such as married men. Me? I got lucky on my second husband. The first one was not emotionally available.

    When one has a toxic parent, everyone is affected in some way and everyone tends to tear one another apart with blame and that warm, fuzzy family just doesn't happen. So we can make a warm, fuzzy family with those who do love us. I did adopt one child at age six from another country and he is no longer in my life. My heart hurts for that, but I won't give up my life for him...he did come here at a later age, which, I'm told, made it hard for him to bond. I don't hate on him either. I love him and am glad he is well. But I truly only want those in my life who are going to be nice to me and one another. My husband, my four other kids, and my grandkids are enough for me. As of late, I have gotten involved in groups that are giving me some wonderful friends who I don't quite trust 100% yet, but they are proving to so far not be the type who talks behind your back or talks behind the backs of others, which to me indicates untrustworthy people. Not safe.

    You keep learning. It IS a learning curve. Read up on personality disordered parents and what kind of life we live under their rule, and you will probably see your own parents and your own childhood family. I was surprised at how much mine resembled the description. First and foremost is divide and conquer. A good child, a bad child, a forgotten child, more if there are more. Roles for all. Nobody getting too close to the scapegoat. One person who has to die on the cross for the family sins, so to speak. And that scapegoat either gets the hello out of Dodge or is scapegoated forever. And who deserves that?

    Not me. Not you either.
  11. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Oh, good! The reason we post here instead of conducting our healing in some other, less public way, is to encourage others and to offer support for their journeys. I am so glad you joined us. We each are seeing good, positive change.

    Welcome to The FOO Chronicles, Lioness.


    I will go back and read your post, now.

    So happy you are here with all of us.

  12. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry those things are happening to you, Lioness.

    That is the situation in my Family of Origin, too. I just would never believe it.
    Things have changed for the worse since my father's death, almost seven years ago.

    A friend told me: Dysfunctional family, dysfunctional death. I was a little offended at the time. She was right, though.

    A thing that helped me was to discover that I was damaged, not defective.

    Damaged; not defective.

    That means we can heal.

    We are meant to be healthy and whole and really happy. When we decide to take ourselves from damaged to whole, some parts are very painful. It's as though we relive those same feelings of deep shame. It helps me to envision the little girl I was suffering those emotions all alone, for all of my life. I want to witness for her, now. I want to be her safe harbor. I try to envision myself as I was then, and I imagine my visiting, imagine myself adult self standing right beside her as she cries. And I tell her we made it. That I am her, all grown up.

    That we lived.

    And it's the strangest thing Lioness, but that little girl is ashamed to be who she is, in front of me. She doesn't want me to know how that felt.

    She has been carrying those terrible feelings alone for so long.

    I am able now to recognize when I need to do that, for her.

    Each of us will heal in the ways most helpful to us. Doing that, loving that little girl that I was, has been very good for me.


    I am sorry she does that, Lioness. It is good that you can see it, though.

    Good for you.

    That's huge. I am forever trying to justify the other guy's bad behavior. Well, until just lately, when I am being outrageously out of order and not very nice about what they've been up to, at all.

    Do you think she does that because, like every mom does, we want to do the best for our kids and she knows she can make you feel vulnerable through criticizing something you care so very much about?

    I think my sister might be that way, too. I am not as honest as you about what I see, maybe. My sister seems so different, now that my father is gone. I don't even know what to think.

    But for today, I don't like her at all.

    It is Happy Hour here Lioness, and I need to sign off for now.


  13. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    I would say that, now that you are thinking differently, your behaviors will change without your having to make a hard and fast rule. Observe the relationship between you from this new way you are seeing and thinking.

    Over time, you will know how you want your relationship to your sister to look.

    If we can do it, I think it is always best to have our families in our lives. There are families though who seem to act from such toxicity that we need to name that and respond to them from the truth of what it is they do. I had a hard time, not so much seeing things that were toxic as toxic, but believing my family of origin was choosing toxic on purpose. At it sounds like you were too, I was so sure we could create family out of what was left that I excused behaviors I should have addressed.

    I compromised values again and again for the sake of my family of origin, and it all fell apart in the end, anyway.

    Now I wonder: If I'd been right up front about what they were doing then, would we have better relationship, now? Or would I have never had them in my life, at all.

    And would that have been better.

    The only thing I know for sure is that I did do what I could do, and that I wish with all my heart things had been different for all of us.

    It's just such a twisted mess; I can't make sense out of any of it.

    I agree with IC.

  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Cedar is right. I do not think no contact is a good answer.

    The only reason it ever crossed my mind was because it was done to me so I had no choice.

    If possible, I would maintain a medium chill relationship with everyone...as in, I will only talk about the wether, and benign stuff and only for short periods of time. That way, I avoid toxic discussions and can limit contact and the other person is not so badly hurt, which has never been my goal.

    On the other hand, some toxic peeps don't allow us to just talk about the weather and start arguments and then go onto abuse us. Some are so dangerous that if we do not do what they want, or if we ask too passionately what is going on; why are they angry, since we don't know, they will call the police on us. When our personal welfare is at stake, I then believe some of us who just don't want to have to worry about that happening have chosen no contact. Abusive rants against us can be leathal to our mental health and sense of self-esteem and can make us so obsessed with ther person's words and feeling badly about ourselves that we neglect those who love us in a pure way and our own selves too. Our mothers have already damaged us. Why let others continue in our mother's legacies?

    Only we can decide what to do.

    I never went n/c with my mother, but it would have hurt me less if I had. My brother and sister both have problems with me now and I'm not even sure that they are sure what those problems are, but I believe strongly that both are linked to our personality disordered mother and how she never raised us to be close. In fact, she the opposite so the opposite happened. The three of us have never been close at the same time nor has my any of us had no problems with one another. That's what a bad childhood can do to a person. It is going to cause strife in the family even after the death of the dysfunctional person and most of us touched by those people will also have some symptoms of whatever they had.

    I think of my real family as my husband, my four adult children, my father and my two grandchildren. I don't consider anyone else important to me and this has greatly improved my life as I no longer care what they say or think. If I engage with them, I always feel badly so I decided it is in my best interests to turn the radio silence on for good. Recently my sister texted me. I have no idea why. It went to spam, surprised me because I don't even know where spam is on my phone...lol....but it poppecd up after I hit a bump while driving. I didn't read it. I saw the first two words. "I'm not" I think they were. I'm not even sure. I deleted it before I read it, but am disturbed that she felt safe contacting me at all. I am sure she knows I don't want her to and I have not contacted her.

    If she contacts me again, because s he knows I don't want her to, I may actually get a restraining order against her so that she can not call my phone, write me a letter or an e-mail. She has a history of leaving angrily, then coming back again and this time I have decided her last cut off was terminal.

    What YOU do, is w hat is best for you. Sometimes it is a slow process.

    I know you have some wonderful people in your life and THAT is a big plus because then you can focus your love on those who can love you back. You don't need to put a big focus on those who can't and, if you feel they harm your mental or phsycial well being, you have every right to do a total cut off.

    I am t hinking of starting a blog elsewhere. PM me if you are interested. Some family know I post here and it makes me feel somewhat unsafe. I am not sure I want to give them insight into my thoughts...

    Have a GREAT day!!!
  15. Lioness

    Lioness Lioness

    Oh my! One of my biggest fears is one of my family of Origin or my Adult children finding these posts. I know how you feel. I'm afraid Im guilty of storming off angry from my sister a few times. The anger builds up over years and eventually I explode! This happened five years ago and I have restrained myself ever since. She stopped making nasty and sly comments for a while as I told her I'd had enough of it. It didn't last very long though. You always make sense to me. Mark my words Iam going low contact with my sister but I know she won't contact me it's always me contacting her. But not anymore. I would be very interested in your blog.
  16. Lioness

    Lioness Lioness

    You are so right Cedar! She knows that the most important thing to me are my children and this is my vulnerability and that is why she does it. I empathise with you as I too have s little girl inside me that needs/needed an adult to take my by the hand and protect me. I had my Grandma when very young but at aged 7 I was ripped away from her loving arms and sent to England to parents I hadn't seen for. Four years. I came from the light and love to complete darkness and gloom. Good for you helping that little girl inside you. Thanks for understandinh
  17. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Lioness, you are finally seeing what we saw...that we have no families of origin other than the biological stuff. That does not make us like one another. In fact, I read a hilarious survey in some magazine years ago and it made me laugh. The question was,"How many of you enjoy family holidlays?" It was a really low per centage who did, something like 25%.

    In the comments part people mostly said they'd rather spend the holidays with their friends.

    This was quite a while ago. May have been twenty years ago. But I'll bet the survey would show the same results again, or possibly even fewer people who enjoy family holidays.