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<blockquote data-quote="BusynMember" data-source="post: 644478" data-attributes="member: 1550"><p>Cedar, my beloved comrade (can't think of a better word for us) first of all I want you know I have not had a chance to read any other responses. I just got in from a few hours of work and then shopping and had to carry in some groceries in weather that froze my hands through my heavy gloves. So maybe my brain is also frozen and perhaps I'm not thinking at my best now. I will tell you my thoughts, my friend, and you decide if what I say is valid or not. As you should carefully think over every response and how it is relevant and possible to your situation...</p><p></p><p>Oh, the gaslighting we put up with!!! Don't we? It makes me us not trust what we hear. Or believe what we hear.</p><p></p><p>Ok, my first thought is to stay out of it. Seriously. Stay out. Don't bring her home. Her husband sounds like he is looking after the kids. Now if you feel the kids are not safe, shut your eyes and call CPS on your daughter. Chances are sh e will not get into trouble because of just words, as chilling as they were. But maybe they will watch her and she will be more inclined to calm down, knowing she may be under watch. If she says it again, call CPS again. You do not have to be directly involved to take care of your grands. And how could you protect your daughter from assault? Is she never going to leave your house? My kids were assaulted under my watch. And any man can break into your house, assault her and you too. We are not so young and strong anymore. Do you have a gun? Do you sleep with one under your pillow? How will you protect them?</p><p></p><p>Remember w hen 37 said if I did something he did not like, he would come up to Wisconsin and shoot us? I had to assess the reality of that. With my logical mind, I thought, "He's unstable, but he has never even laid a finger on a gun and is phobic about traveling. He won't do it. But, God, it is c hilling that he even said it." We've talked about that now. In the heat of the moment, who knows what a difficult child will do?</p><p></p><p>As for mental illness...I talk mostly about personality disorders, which I have read up on for years and years. I'm not a professional, but I do think our adult difficult children seem more personality disordered than classically mentally ill...the type that may greatly improve with medication and therapy. Personality disordered adults do not believe they are different in a bad way, usually have no desire to change, and blame the world for their problems, not themselves. They are hard to treat and almost never get over their problems. Many are absolutely Oscar Level actors and actresses w hen they want us to do something for them. On top of that, they are the best liars on earth. And they will lie to scare us so that they can get their way. Their bottom line is always getting their own way. Since they tend to be empathy-challenged, often they have no problem gaslighting us or lying to us or stealing from us or making up stories to get a means to an end. Even though we are their parents, they do not know how to feel love the way most people do. Some can't feel it at all. Some a little. But their own needs come first. Always.Medication doesn't really help a personality disorder.</p><p></p><p>At your daughter's age, even with the horrible trauma she suffered, I would let her figure it out if it were me. My own daughter, God help her, was violently raped and assaulted at age eight. The man was never found, long story. She is doing well now, as you know, but that is part of her past. I do not and never did want to let that issue define her. It makes me sick to my stomach to think about such a little girl being raped by a grown man, drunk, disconnected. She felt shame. She didn't tell us because the man told her it was her fault, nobody would believe her, and he'd kill her entire family if he found out she'd told anyone. We found out when she was fourteen and finally blurted it out. In her case, she really is not a liar and I believe her. I know it happened. It makes me more protective of both of my daughters, but...in spite of how diligent I becamse after learning this, the child we adopted molested Sonic and Jumper. I feel like a big fat loser when I think about that. I can not baby them because of guilt. That is no gift to them.</p><p></p><p>In your post, it sounded more like your daughter was being the abuser than the ex (again, my brain is frozen. Maybe I read it wrong).</p><p></p><p>Do you want your daughter's world in your world again? Neither of us are young chickens anymore and both of us want to enjoy every single day.</p><p></p><p>You have a hard decision to make. Nobody can make it for you. But I know you'll think it over hard and make the right choice for you. You seem to mull things over, like I do. You know better than to act impulsively.</p><p></p><p>Remember, nothing has to be decided right now. You have lots of time. Do it in your own time frame, whatever that is.</p><p></p><p>And remember to respect your own serenity and peace and that of your husband's.</p><p></p><p>I've learned to make no decision quickly anymore. And I've heard to think with my brain, not my heart. Heart decisions are usually not logical or workable and end poorly.</p><p></p><p>Take care and keep posting. I'll read the other responses after some hot coffee, which has my name on it!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BusynMember, post: 644478, member: 1550"] Cedar, my beloved comrade (can't think of a better word for us) first of all I want you know I have not had a chance to read any other responses. I just got in from a few hours of work and then shopping and had to carry in some groceries in weather that froze my hands through my heavy gloves. So maybe my brain is also frozen and perhaps I'm not thinking at my best now. I will tell you my thoughts, my friend, and you decide if what I say is valid or not. As you should carefully think over every response and how it is relevant and possible to your situation... Oh, the gaslighting we put up with!!! Don't we? It makes me us not trust what we hear. Or believe what we hear. Ok, my first thought is to stay out of it. Seriously. Stay out. Don't bring her home. Her husband sounds like he is looking after the kids. Now if you feel the kids are not safe, shut your eyes and call CPS on your daughter. Chances are sh e will not get into trouble because of just words, as chilling as they were. But maybe they will watch her and she will be more inclined to calm down, knowing she may be under watch. If she says it again, call CPS again. You do not have to be directly involved to take care of your grands. And how could you protect your daughter from assault? Is she never going to leave your house? My kids were assaulted under my watch. And any man can break into your house, assault her and you too. We are not so young and strong anymore. Do you have a gun? Do you sleep with one under your pillow? How will you protect them? Remember w hen 37 said if I did something he did not like, he would come up to Wisconsin and shoot us? I had to assess the reality of that. With my logical mind, I thought, "He's unstable, but he has never even laid a finger on a gun and is phobic about traveling. He won't do it. But, God, it is c hilling that he even said it." We've talked about that now. In the heat of the moment, who knows what a difficult child will do? As for mental illness...I talk mostly about personality disorders, which I have read up on for years and years. I'm not a professional, but I do think our adult difficult children seem more personality disordered than classically mentally ill...the type that may greatly improve with medication and therapy. Personality disordered adults do not believe they are different in a bad way, usually have no desire to change, and blame the world for their problems, not themselves. They are hard to treat and almost never get over their problems. Many are absolutely Oscar Level actors and actresses w hen they want us to do something for them. On top of that, they are the best liars on earth. And they will lie to scare us so that they can get their way. Their bottom line is always getting their own way. Since they tend to be empathy-challenged, often they have no problem gaslighting us or lying to us or stealing from us or making up stories to get a means to an end. Even though we are their parents, they do not know how to feel love the way most people do. Some can't feel it at all. Some a little. But their own needs come first. Always.Medication doesn't really help a personality disorder. At your daughter's age, even with the horrible trauma she suffered, I would let her figure it out if it were me. My own daughter, God help her, was violently raped and assaulted at age eight. The man was never found, long story. She is doing well now, as you know, but that is part of her past. I do not and never did want to let that issue define her. It makes me sick to my stomach to think about such a little girl being raped by a grown man, drunk, disconnected. She felt shame. She didn't tell us because the man told her it was her fault, nobody would believe her, and he'd kill her entire family if he found out she'd told anyone. We found out when she was fourteen and finally blurted it out. In her case, she really is not a liar and I believe her. I know it happened. It makes me more protective of both of my daughters, but...in spite of how diligent I becamse after learning this, the child we adopted molested Sonic and Jumper. I feel like a big fat loser when I think about that. I can not baby them because of guilt. That is no gift to them. In your post, it sounded more like your daughter was being the abuser than the ex (again, my brain is frozen. Maybe I read it wrong). Do you want your daughter's world in your world again? Neither of us are young chickens anymore and both of us want to enjoy every single day. You have a hard decision to make. Nobody can make it for you. But I know you'll think it over hard and make the right choice for you. You seem to mull things over, like I do. You know better than to act impulsively. Remember, nothing has to be decided right now. You have lots of time. Do it in your own time frame, whatever that is. And remember to respect your own serenity and peace and that of your husband's. I've learned to make no decision quickly anymore. And I've heard to think with my brain, not my heart. Heart decisions are usually not logical or workable and end poorly. Take care and keep posting. I'll read the other responses after some hot coffee, which has my name on it! [/QUOTE]
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