Top psychiatrist but maybe not right one, or is it me?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Crystal72, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. Crystal72

    Crystal72 New Member

    I am fried here too. Went with the clinician and difficult child 1 to the psychiatrist appointment.
    I am starting to feel is might be me?
    Cos I have two difficult child seeing him and constantly, I mean CONSTANTLY he keeps on telling me it's my mental health letting me see all these negative things and nothing positive. I always sit there for hours thinking what is wrong with me.
    Today, psychiatrist spent about 10 mins with difficult child 1, then me and the clinician went in and difficult child 1 went to next room. psychiatrist asks me how things are since the discharge. I say all well, a couple of meltdown but not as severe as before. Then psychiatrist says, this is something weird,cos when I spoke with difficult child 1, he doesn't give me the image like what you are giving me... He says difficult child 1 is always yes,no,I don't know... I say ya the school always say he is a man with few words.....
    then I told him about difficult child 1 confided in me that teacher don't like him cos he keeps on talking to his friends in class.. psychiatrist immediately interrupted and say ' see,this is something I don't get it,you just say he is a man of few words,now you say he can't stop talking?'
    then psychiatrist says my words are full of frustration and anger when I say difficult child 1 is manipulative for example,when he is being sent to his room and not allowed tv, he would bring the remote control with him. psychiatrist say ' are you sure he is trying to provoke? I replied I am not sure if he is trying to provoke or getting attention. Cos every evening he set dvr recording for more than one show and others couldn't watch what they want to watch.
    when I informed psychiatrist bad things,he says my mental health caused me to see only bad things and when I told him things are good.he picks on my much frustration or anger does a word ' manupulative' sound? To me it's just how I feel, nothing personal...

    This psychiatrist is one top psychiatrist for kids with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)... But I feel everytime I go in, I am being judged and doubted...I don't know and no longer know what is wrong with me.
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    After reading your post, I'd personally find the kids a different psychiatrist. I don't know who calls him "top" but if I bring my kids to see a psychiatrist, I want THEM to be the focus, not me. And I expect to be taken seriously. Sounds like he is trying to confuse you and twist your words. Ugh.
  3. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Well....before I make that assumption...I do have some questions.

    Do you have any mental health diagnosis's? I do and I am not ashamed of it. I know that some of my issues have had effects on my kids. Even before I knew that I had a concrete diagnosis, I knew there was something wrong or different with me. There was simply no denying it. As my S/O put it, he thought I had the worst case of PMS on record. There were maybe 3 days a month I was

    It could be that you have difficulty getting your point across to the doctor because you have trouble with some executive functions. From your signature it appears your kids both have some forms of autistic spectrum disorders and those tend to be genetic. It is highly likely that you may have some traits that are called shadow traits and you perform well overall but in the stressful doctors office, you have a harder time. Natural.

    I would think a therapist would be good to interact with you and your kids to see how things are going.

    Please dont think I am dxing you or being mean. I am not. I am just telling you how I learned through my travels with uncovering my own diagnosis's and how they came into play with how I dealt with parenting my kids and with dealing with the professionals in our lives.
  4. Crystal72

    Crystal72 New Member

    I have on and off depression. I guess it's not difficult to be having depression when everything in my life is a mess. We are 4 years in this country, learning everything from the ground zero. It's a lot of stress when you have two special needs and nobody is listening.

    My previous therapist works with the state. I had to stop with her cos our health insurance changed. She was able to understand me. She was the one who suggested to me that my elder difficult child is asperger when she met him during a family session and she was also the one who told me my younger difficult child has psychological issue too. I guess it's cos she handles cases and working with special needs families,therefore she was able to see and understand. She also told me my husband is very highly asperger from the way he reacts and carry himself during sessions. She also pointed out to me that I am too elaborating my emotional feeling. Not that she has a problem, she feels others would start to judge me when I open myself up like a book. I didn't understand her then, I thought if I needed help, I should be honest...

    We have no services from school, no community services till last month. When my 6 years old gtg2 diagnosed with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) not otherwise specified. there is a mandatory law to bring in 12 hours of home based services. The case manager came in for 2 hours and they tried all ways to help us but couldn't break down the barrier, so they are pulling their grant money to help us for short term. They are able to see the crisis going on in my home when they stepped in. They went with me the school and psychiatrist meetings.

    I just got off the phone with her. I told her how the psychiatrist made me feel. She said something that reminded me of my ex therapist.she too thinks I am being too expressive with my emotions and she says pyshciatrist doesn't want to hear that cos I am giving him the opportunity to judge me. And she also told me that psychiatrist see parent coming in with severe cases that they have black and blue and bite marks... My case doesn't have physical evidence to convince the psychiatrist that it is as bad as I am telling him.

    So maybe I do have a disability of communicating. I always thought we need the truthful when we wanted help. Like on this forum,I am truthful from first word until some nice members told me I shouldn't use real name. Never did I know truthful is wrong...
    so, I need to learn how I talk like a politician lol
  5. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member you are not from the US! That makes more sense to me now. Tons of difference. Honestly. I do think you have a much harder time because you probably dont have as an easy time making yourself understood. If english is your second language then I am sure that there is a barrier. The doctor probably doesnt understand you very well when you talk. I dont think you need to come in with obviously abused kids. In fact I think that would hurt your case. They might say you were allowing your kids to be abused. So dont do that. Maybe have someone come with you who could speak english more fluently to help you say what you are trying to say. That is my only suggestion. I think your meanings are getting lost in the translation.
  6. Crystal72

    Crystal72 New Member

    I don't think language is the problem here. English is still my first language but I m educated in British way. It's like southern and northern part of America talk differently too. It's like a lot of people feel new Yorker has their new York style of humor.
    The clinician agrees with me that the word manipulation is just a word of speech and it doesn't contain any anger or frustration.
    I m looking for another psychiatrist .. No point getting myself all depressed and no help for the boys
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I think you made a good decision. Whether or not you have mental health problems or communication issues, he needs to believe you. If your psychiatrist doesn't believe you, it can become very frustrating and it helps nobody. We, the parents, see the kids at their absolute worst. We know them best.

    Good luck and keep us posted :)
  8. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Interesting DJ, I took the black and blue/bite comment to mean that the parents were coming in with black and blue marks (like me, teehee). How egocentric of me, but it might be what she was saying, meaning that the doctor is not thinking these kids are so tough because they are not abusing mom in that way.

    Crystal, I dont think it is about you needing to not tell the truth. I think it is about you needing to filter the truth. NO lies. Just do not share so much. Services are generally based on the child needing support. Not the parents. Parents at times do get respite care, but that is still based on the child's diagnosis and the assumption then that they are more difficult than a typical child. It is a little like politics, you are right. Not to lie, but to put a spin on it so that it emphasizes how your kids follow directions, how literal they are, how long do rages last, is there any physical violence with sibs or you guys as parents? Just try hard to keep the focus on what they do, say, feel. If you feel like you really do need to talk about something like manipulation, maybe instead of comments like- they are trying to manipulate me- or they are being so manipulative--, say I wonder sometimes if this behavior is so he can control the situation. Saying someone is manipulative does have a really negative connotation here. (and boy are some of our difficult child's manipulative!) You can explain that you would like to learn more about their disabilities and how they each think and learn, so they can reach their potentials. Explain they are really struggling now. You would like to help to reduce the issues and help the whole family function better. (these are some of the things I hear from your posts, I could be wrong of course) Maybe next time, have a notebook for each difficult child. Then you can stay really closely on track. Include specific behaviors, do not talk about how you felt about them, just that they had a really hard time with situation X, Y Z...what set them off, what they did, how you resolved it, how much time it took, etc.

    Include any comments they make about their feelings.
    Include any problems in school.

    I know it may seem like game playing, but it is just that most people can't imagine how hard this is, even if they are professionals in the field. We are all just humans trying to do a super human job. they can try to understand, but unless they live it then I doubt they will see it in any other way than thinking that a parent who is so overwhelmed must be (at least in part) the cause of the issue. (could it be that your depression is making things more difficult? of course, we all would agree that our issues affect our kids I think! You yourself have stated that you think you need to be on medication again. But you can take care of that in a different time and place, with your own psychiatrist/therapist)

    You said that you feel that logically, if they think you are falling apart, then they should think-- wow, we should help this mom by giving her kids services.... sorry it doesn't work that way. Maybe it should, but it doesn't.

    So, dont beat your self up. It is ok to be an honest person. You just learned something about the system, and now you will move forward with a heavier filter when you talk to the kids' psychiatrist. If you want, run by your issues with them here. Remember those parents here who did that a month or so ago?. I thought the stuff they ended up writing and discussing was brilliant because they ended up with a dozen people helping him compose it! I am going to do that too next time I have to send any kind of serious request to our district. I loved the input from here.

    Hang tough girl! You made a good choice to fire this guy, top guy or not, he is just not a good match for you. Do not sign a release of information for the new psychiatrist/therapist you get for the boys, ok. Let the person get to know all of you without a prior bias. After a good relationship is set, if they feel they need past info, then you can decide.

    All this is just mho, of course if it doesn't fit with what you think, you know I will support you no matter what! only you are there living it and you are a smart, educated, caring mom. You can do this. all my luv, Dee
  9. Crystal72

    Crystal72 New Member

    The thing that is causing me to fall apart is this psychiatrist. Even when my difficult child was in hospital I pulled it together but everytime I go to this psychiatrist. It set me on depression mode.
    I agreed that I was maybe sharing too much at the beginning but hey how are we supposed to know psychiatrist doesn't want to hear that. Afterall the child lives with us, it's one topic to talk about. But after the explanation from my precious therapist that is a state worker. I began to just stay on the point but he started picking on my words....
    he ask how things after discharge. I say fine with a few meltdown and clinician is working with us and he is starting to confide in me about things in school. Then psychiatrist says well this is something I don't see from
    Him cos everytime I talked to him he is only yes no i don't know ... And you could tell me all these. Then psychiatrist carry on saying ' i don't know if this is the asperger side him or..... I say previous school psychologist ever mentioned that after 3 years of working with him, all she ever got out from him was these too.
    So you see, I can't make any input at all....
  10. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Oh yes Crystal ..... get rid of this thorn in your side!
  11. confuzzled

    confuzzled Member

    some psychiatrists are very black and white and from the sound of it, yours is one of them. often they don't really care about that gray areas (the whys). i'm sorry yours makes you feel bad and i'd probably be looking for a new one asap too.

    in my experience, psychiatrists like that also arent interested in reading a long parent report or a detailed notebook either, which makes it even harder if there are communication style differences.

    but what i DO find they will look at is a simple mood chart. it helps to show patterns of behavior/rages/whatever. if you google "mood chart" you'll find plenty of simple forms to print out. *I* personally hate them for a kid, lol, because they are too simplified and there is no real room for explanation, but i guess you could jot a short note after an event (difficult child 1 was up too late, fight with teacher, missed medications--that kind of thing to help explain an event and jog your own memory). i'd look at a few different charts and see what would meet your needs.

    then its right there, in black and white, on single piece of paper.

    then you can go from there. but it will help take the long, drawn out explanations out of the equation for now.

    oh, and ps: i think its a completely ridiculous statement that a kid cant "talk too much to a friend" and say nothing at other times---i dont care what the diagnosis is, kids are kids. think about it....*I* myself might give yes/no answers to a professional while an hour before i was elaborately telling the story to my BFF--or *I* myself might get carried away fooling around inappropriately with the friend sitting next to me in a classroom, even if its unappropriate behavior, but i probably would control myself in church, know what i mean? thats just human nature :)
  12. Crystal72

    Crystal72 New Member

    Yes! We don't have to be Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) to not wanting to talk to authority figure.

    I tried to show him mood chart, journal, even a neuropsychologist testing of my difficult child 2. He couldn't be bothered about it.
  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Crystal...leave this psychiatrist. Why go if he causes you stress? There are thousands of other psychiatrists who can treat your kids and who will believe what you tell them and will treat your well. He isn't helping your family if he stresses you out. Frankly, I would have left him long ago. He works for YOU, not the other way around. You can fire him. Don't even angst over it. Just don't go back. I have had to search to find psychiatrists who were fits for me and my kids. Sometimes it takes time. And some "top" psychiatrists get that rep...and I have no idea why they do. To me, if the psychiatrist doesn't believe you, he is useless. And who knows...maybe he has some prejudice in him too. It's not something we like to think about psychiatrists, but they are people first. I think, all the way around, it sounds like he is not a good fit for your family. JMO.

    Good luck :)
  14. Crystal72

    Crystal72 New Member

    As far as I am concerned. He is fired
    i sat at home crying my eyes out after the appointment cos I kept on thinking what and where goes wrong but if I never had this issue with clinician working with us, then why should I doubt myself. What's the point to keep going back to a psychiatrist that doesn't want to hear or see

    I know it's very limited with psychiatrist that work with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) here in rhode island. I just need to work this out with my clinician.
  15. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I don'e CARE if he is the God of psychiatrists, this guy is a jerk and is not helping. YOU are the client also, not just your child. This guy seems way too caught up in manipulating YOU to be helfpul to your children. There is a language problem, but what this idiot is doing is making it worse and making you feel worse.

    I am sad to say we have seen quite a few psychiatrists/tdocs like this. in my opinion the psychiatrist needs someone to rx medications for him if he treats you like this - cause clearly he has lost sight of the goal of HELPING you and not just messing with you.

    get a new psychiatrist. A lot of docs of all kinds think they are the ones in charge and we should be thankful that they are taking their time to even speak to us. They don't like me. I have been known to tell the esp obnoxious/condescending ones that they MAY be experts in a field of study, but I AM the expert in my child ( or my body if it is my doctor), and they WILL pay attention and work with me or I WILL find someone who will. LOTS of the psychiatrists who treat kids here will laugh because they don't think you CAN find another one to treat your kid. they ALL think they are the ONLY one and we have them or nothing.

    This guy is not worth your time, money, energy or anything else. I am sorry he is such a manipulative jerk. It really seems that he is spending his time and energy trying to upset you rather than to help your kids.
  16. Crystal72

    Crystal72 New Member

    Thanks for all your kind words.

    They just don't understand that kids don't come with a manual book. Parents with normal function kids are having trouble with them, at least we are advocating and trying to be the best for them. Why can't psychiatrist sees that

    I will keep you guys updated
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  17. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I think many of the psychiatrists we have worked with wouldn't understand an instruction book if they read it. Not the good ones, but a lot of them.

    psychiatrist can't see it because he is having too much fun manipulating you and is way too caught up in your use of the language to remember that his job is to help you handle 2 very challenging kids. If the kids are on medications, be sure not to drop him until you have gone to the new psychiatrist, if at all possible.

    If it helps you feel less alone in the situation, one of the psychiatrists we took Wiz too noticed that I winced when I sat down in his office. He also noticed that at one point Wiz flinched from him when he made a fast movement with his hands suddenly. He got ALL caught up in trying to make me admit that husband beat us up regularly and that was the reason that Wiz had "problems". He tried to insist that ALL the problems were because we were abused, and even tried to say that Wiz didn't have aspergers because he was abused - actually told us that you can't have aspergers AND be abused or have PTSD.

    My husband has never hit me. He is the most gentle person I have ever met. Wiz flinched because he couldn't stand to be touched and has a LOT of tactile defensiveness (an Occupational Therapist (OT) problem, not a psychiatric one).

    So you are sooooo not alone in having a psychiatrist who can't see past his own issues to try to help you and your child with your issues. I would bet $$ that what he sees in you is what he least likes about himself.
  18. Crystal72

    Crystal72 New Member

    He probably can't stand an Asian immigrant that speaks English and 7 other languages therefore he keeps on picking on my words

    I don't intend to go back to him cos in August when he changed the adderall to adderall xr and difficult child aggression went out of control, I tried to bring it up to him but he refused to agree with me. Now I made the psychiatric hospital to remove the adderall xr and reported difficult child has better control of his anger but psychiatrist couldn't accept it, he told me its honeymoon stage.

    When he refused to diagnose difficult child 2, I took him to a psychologist who did neuropsychological testing and says he has Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) not otherwise specified cos he had speech delay, sensory issue, oppositional and ADHD. When I gave psychiatrist the stack of paper. He wasn't happy and say when did I think when he says difficult child 2 is fine and I still go ahead with a Neuro testing.
    And he always say that neuropsychological testing is base on myers telling the pdychologist what I solo thinks. But I wasn't even in the room when the psychologist took him to another room for hours.

    So you can see. He doesn't do a thing for my boys. Everytime I go in there to pay and get corrected by him no matter what I do . If I tell him the kids were unable to control,he says it's my mental health makes me seeing only bad, when I say all well he picks on my words.
  19. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Crystal...We wasted three years with a psychiatrist (who had a good rep) who insisted my son had childhood bipolar. Since childhood bipolar was a brand new disorder at the time, I hadn't had the time to study it and decide for myself if I thought it was even a valid diagnosis for a child. I thought my son was on the autism spectrum, but I went along with him because, after all, he was a doctor and smarter than me (cough). For three years he was put on medication such as lithium, risperdal, depakote, seroquel and zyprexa and he had many horrible reactions. He gained tons of weight. It zoned him out, but it didn't help him. I kept questioning the diagnosis too because my son did not have mood swings. He just overreacted to certain typical Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) situations and was socially clueless.-

    One weekend I went to visit some online bipolar kid friends and one of the mothers asked me if Sonic was autistic. Then it hit me. It was obvious to others, but not to psychiatrist. I decided to take him to a neuropsychologist who had no attachment to t his psychiatrist. He diagnosed him with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified, which made a lot of sense as he had had the typical speech delay, stims, social problems, etc. He had never had wild moodswings. He is eighteen years old now and obviously not bipolar. He only takes a small dose of Vyvanse and does not even have rebound crankiness. I digress...

    When I approached psychiatrist with the neuropsychologist's diagnosis and the observations of my friends, he said, "Sonic can not have autism because he can go from one room to another and not have a meltdown." I stared at him. He knew less about Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) than I did. It shocked me. I never went back. Our pediatrician helped wean Sonic off of his Lithium and Seroquel.

    I wasted three years with this man. My poor son was put through the ringer with him. My new motto is: "If it doesn't feel right, it's not! Move on!"

    I wish you tons of luck. Keep us updated.
  20. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Mid MOM, wow wow wow. It just amazes me the rigid rules psychiatrists can have.....worse than our difficult children! To think that defines Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)?? HOLY heck.