Turns Out that difficult child's Biggest Problem is Me
- Thread starter DaisyFace
- Start date
AnnieO
Shooting from the Hip
I have one question...
If you do not know how to love...
Then how on God's Green Earth are you able to "shower" DS with "ALL" your love & affection?!?!?!
That is the biggest pile of bovine manure I have ever heard in my entire LIFE. Ms. Ally needs a 2x4 to connect with her frontal lobe at about 95 mph.
Send difficult child home with Ms. Ally. Since she clearly knows SO MUCH about loving children enough.
UGH.
If you do not know how to love...
Then how on God's Green Earth are you able to "shower" DS with "ALL" your love & affection?!?!?!
That is the biggest pile of bovine manure I have ever heard in my entire LIFE. Ms. Ally needs a 2x4 to connect with her frontal lobe at about 95 mph.
Send difficult child home with Ms. Ally. Since she clearly knows SO MUCH about loving children enough.
UGH.
JJJ
Active Member
Lovely. We got the same "advice" when Kanga was 11. That therapist is still with the clinic my boys go to and she always asks me how Kanga is doing. She was just floored that she got it so wrong. I'm really hoping that it prevents her from doing it to another mother.
Ms. Ally isn't court ordered, right? Fire her.
Ms. Ally isn't court ordered, right? Fire her.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
OMG. I'm late at reading this. This "therapist" is about thirty years behind what new research has proven. First of all, I agree that ADHD/Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) are neurological differences, not mental illnesses.
Second of all, this brings me back to a time when I was in my 20's looking for help and some arrogant therapist said, "Tell me about the abuse you suffered because your parents made you this way."
My parents made mistakes, but I was born this way. I was never any different and I thought, even back then, that this was a crocodile. I said, "That's not why I'm like this. I'd like to just concentrate on myself anyway so I can be happier."
He said, "We can't unless we get to the root of the problem. That is your parents."
I never went back and kind of laughed when I left. There are MANY incompetent therapists, psychologists and even psychiatrists out there with various different theories that have been disproven or can never be proven.
I would never go back. She obviously didn't keep up with the latest research. FIRE HER!
Second of all, this brings me back to a time when I was in my 20's looking for help and some arrogant therapist said, "Tell me about the abuse you suffered because your parents made you this way."
My parents made mistakes, but I was born this way. I was never any different and I thought, even back then, that this was a crocodile. I said, "That's not why I'm like this. I'd like to just concentrate on myself anyway so I can be happier."
He said, "We can't unless we get to the root of the problem. That is your parents."
I never went back and kind of laughed when I left. There are MANY incompetent therapists, psychologists and even psychiatrists out there with various different theories that have been disproven or can never be proven.
I would never go back. She obviously didn't keep up with the latest research. FIRE HER!
AnnieO
Shooting from the Hip
You know what... This reminds me of something that happened when I was a teenager. About 15-16. I was depressed, my parents took me to counseling. The counselor talked to me ONCE, and my parents together ONCE, and determined that ALL of my problems were because my father was an alcoholic.
I was confused - Dad drank beer, but not that much, I didn't think. I saw nothing wrong with a couple of beers on a hot day. I didn't like the taste, but it wasn't me, so what was the problem?
I didn't learn until MUCH later that he had rolled one of our cars while drunk, and grandpa had problems with it too. Dad has been very much sober for a long time. He relapses every 5-10 years, his only daughter pulls a guilt trip on him - and he's good for a another 5-10 years.
HOWEVER. The problems I had in high school, and now? Have NOTHING to do with his drinking. because I'll be honest - as a child he was out of town a lot, and my parents separated for a time when I was about 3 - but he ALWAYS loved me, and I was NEVER abused. Misunderstood, maybe. But that's TEENAGER.
And I think I turned out pretty well.
A few weeks ago my Dad looked me in the eye and told me he was proud of me - not drinking a lot or into drugs - because I was nowhere near the PITA that Onyxx is.
I was confused - Dad drank beer, but not that much, I didn't think. I saw nothing wrong with a couple of beers on a hot day. I didn't like the taste, but it wasn't me, so what was the problem?
I didn't learn until MUCH later that he had rolled one of our cars while drunk, and grandpa had problems with it too. Dad has been very much sober for a long time. He relapses every 5-10 years, his only daughter pulls a guilt trip on him - and he's good for a another 5-10 years.
HOWEVER. The problems I had in high school, and now? Have NOTHING to do with his drinking. because I'll be honest - as a child he was out of town a lot, and my parents separated for a time when I was about 3 - but he ALWAYS loved me, and I was NEVER abused. Misunderstood, maybe. But that's TEENAGER.
And I think I turned out pretty well.
A few weeks ago my Dad looked me in the eye and told me he was proud of me - not drinking a lot or into drugs - because I was nowhere near the PITA that Onyxx is.
tiredmommy
Well-Known Member
{{{DF}}} I know you're coming across angry but I also know you must be hurting. I don't think any of us hasn't questioned ourselves with "if only I had" or "if only I hadn't" in regards to our parenting. And I know many parents of difficult children secretly fear that they are the cause and carry their gulit to the grave. It was wrong for Ms. Ally to lay difficult child's problems at your feet; it was extremely hurtful to you and will prove to be unhelpful for difficult child. We all know that you are a wonderful mother and you are doing your very best with an extremely difficult and dysfunctional child. {{{Hugs}}}
timer lady
Queen of Hearts
DF, what slsh said.....
This is an easy out, if you will, for Ms A. It's easier to deal with a parent who's stable than with a difficult child who's "off her nut". A loving, caring parent will do all in their power to help their child & that makes it so much easier for Ms. A.
What a load of horse cookies.
This is an easy out, if you will, for Ms A. It's easier to deal with a parent who's stable than with a difficult child who's "off her nut". A loving, caring parent will do all in their power to help their child & that makes it so much easier for Ms. A.
What a load of horse cookies.
Mom2oddson
Active Member
The navy sent me to a psychiatrist when I was 9....my parents were told all my problems were because they didn't give me enough love. Know why they said that? Because I didn't draw hands and feet on the people I drew. If they had asked me why, I'd of told them because I couldn't draw hands and feet without it looking bad. I didn't know how to draw feet without them sticking out like a penguins. I liked perfection in my drawings! If I couldn't do something perfectly, I didn't want to do it. Duh.
Ms Ally is clueless. And deep down you know it. But when someone blames us warrior mom's we all get that self-doubt going because each of us wonders what we could of done differently. I'm so sorry DF. You are a wonderful, loving Mom. Don't let anyone tell you differently.
Ms Ally is clueless. And deep down you know it. But when someone blames us warrior mom's we all get that self-doubt going because each of us wonders what we could of done differently. I'm so sorry DF. You are a wonderful, loving Mom. Don't let anyone tell you differently.
keista
New Member
Too many of these 'pros' go into the psychiatric field having issues of their own. Some think they can 'fix' themselves while others are plain oblivious to their own problems - I think most with personal problems project onto their patients/clients.
Many do have an uncanny knack for pinpointing "the problem" (or part of it) in a very short amount of time, but since they are so successful that way, they lose the ability to delve deeper and acknowledge that they are being presented with a more complicated case.
Others still, get 'stuck' in a psychological philosophy - Freud, Jung, Gestalt, etc.
I do believe that from your very first post of Ms Ally, I said she was CRAZY. My opinion has not changed, but unfortunately it's also not necessarily her fault. She's part of a system that is claiming to want to help, but won't really help because if they do help everyone, then there will be no one left to help. (In your situation, I think they have NO CLUE how to really help) This concept is more clearly explained in Games People Play by Dr Eric Berne
Many do have an uncanny knack for pinpointing "the problem" (or part of it) in a very short amount of time, but since they are so successful that way, they lose the ability to delve deeper and acknowledge that they are being presented with a more complicated case.
Others still, get 'stuck' in a psychological philosophy - Freud, Jung, Gestalt, etc.
I do believe that from your very first post of Ms Ally, I said she was CRAZY. My opinion has not changed, but unfortunately it's also not necessarily her fault. She's part of a system that is claiming to want to help, but won't really help because if they do help everyone, then there will be no one left to help. (In your situation, I think they have NO CLUE how to really help) This concept is more clearly explained in Games People Play by Dr Eric Berne
Thank you all so much!
To be honest, if it wasn't for this community....Ms Ally's comment would have cut me to the core.
Instead, after that initial hurt - I was able to step back and analyze our session. I wondered why I had been targeted as the problem - I mean, wasn't husband the one that threw difficult child out the door last week? How come HE wasn't the problem? How come difficult child - after sitting there arguing with Ms Ally - was just dismissed from session? How come difficult child was not identified as the problem?
And then I realized -
I was the problem, because I was the only one still sitting there. husband was working. difficult child had been sent out of the room. So who's left to work with? Yep. Me.
Ms Ally is no dummy - I think she sees that her usual methods are not going to work. After all, she was supposed to start with "Parenting 101" - but my Certificates of Completion from the parenting classes we already took blew that out of the water. Then this session - I demonstrated plain as day that behavior contracts were in-effective.
So what's left?
Well, Ms Ally has to document for her supervisor that she implemented the techniques and they worked. We did A, B, C, - and success!
Her only alternative is that the parents are "uncooperative". I told them A, B, C - but they refused...no wonder it didn't work!
To be honest, if it wasn't for this community....Ms Ally's comment would have cut me to the core.
Instead, after that initial hurt - I was able to step back and analyze our session. I wondered why I had been targeted as the problem - I mean, wasn't husband the one that threw difficult child out the door last week? How come HE wasn't the problem? How come difficult child - after sitting there arguing with Ms Ally - was just dismissed from session? How come difficult child was not identified as the problem?
And then I realized -
I was the problem, because I was the only one still sitting there. husband was working. difficult child had been sent out of the room. So who's left to work with? Yep. Me.
Ms Ally is no dummy - I think she sees that her usual methods are not going to work. After all, she was supposed to start with "Parenting 101" - but my Certificates of Completion from the parenting classes we already took blew that out of the water. Then this session - I demonstrated plain as day that behavior contracts were in-effective.
So what's left?
Well, Ms Ally has to document for her supervisor that she implemented the techniques and they worked. We did A, B, C, - and success!
Her only alternative is that the parents are "uncooperative". I told them A, B, C - but they refused...no wonder it didn't work!
It is time to go find out who is in charge of the program that pays Ms. Ally. Then you need to write a clear, firm, detailed complaint about the idiotic things Ms. Ally has said and done and how you have done ALL you could to go along with her even though you have spent the last ten plus years doing the same things with other tdocs, psychiatrists, teachers, counselors, etc.... You have given her every benefit of the doubt and your child is not getting better. Instead of actually facing the fact that difficult child is the problem and doing something to help the family, all Ms. Ally has come up wtih is blame for YOU for somehow not loving your daughter enough. Love will not fix her. it does a huge disservice to difficult child and an even bigger insult to you and a still bigger injury to any chance of a positive relationship between you and difficult child for Ms. Ally to put the blame for difficult child's poor decisions and choices (most of them made with CLEAR understanding and prior knowledge of the fact that you and husband will NOT approve of or support those not just poor but actually often dangerous decisions) onto her parents or ANYONE other than difficult child herself.
Ms. Ally has just handed difficult child an excuse to indulge in ALL the dangerous things she wants to do - it is not difficult child's fault, it is her mothers!!! So now difficult child can go arrange to meet strange men and/or boys anywhere, to ask them to come and kill her parents to "rescue" her from your abuse, to use drugs, skip school, steal, lie, cheat, anything under the sun, and NONE of it will be difficult children fault.
Let the top dog know, in writing, that his organization, Ms. Ally and him specifically will be held accountable for ANYTHING difficult child does from this point on. That if she kills someone, steals, breaks any law, hurts anyone, that you will hold THEM accountable because they handed her a gift wrapped excuse on a solid gold platter to do any dang thing she wants to do. You will ONLY release them from responsiblity if they get a much more experienced person in Ms. Ally's position and they send difficult child to a GOOD Residential Treatment Center (RTC) that fits her needs - and if they allow her to refuse to go? You will drive difficult child to the top dog's office and leave her there to go home and ruin HIS life, his children, his finances and put everyone and everything he cares about in the dangerous position his employee and organization has now put YOU and your family in (including your daughter who is being greatly damaged by this and you are terrified for her safety because now nothing is her responsibility and she has already engaged in extremely risky, scary behaviors!).
Ms. Ally has sunk to this level because otherwise she has to face the fact that she hasn't done a dang thing that helped difficult child in any way. That unless/until seh gets difficult child into Residential Treatment Center (RTC) of some kind there will be NO improvement and possible great deterioration in difficult child's behavior and choices.
You might even tell them that now you feel you have NO choice but to turn difficult child over to CPS - you love her with ever fiber of your being and want her to get better. You don't believe what Ms. Ally said was true, but if there is even the TINIEST chance that it is correct, you have no option other than to turn her over to Ms. Ally and Top Dog's loving care. You will be by one day this week to leave her at his office with all of her things. Could he please ahve the paperwork ready for you to sign? You cannot take the chance of further damaging her and since he and Ms. Ally are so perfect, tehy can rescue her and fix her.
I am proud that you did not pound ms. A into dust then an there.
Ms. Ally has just handed difficult child an excuse to indulge in ALL the dangerous things she wants to do - it is not difficult child's fault, it is her mothers!!! So now difficult child can go arrange to meet strange men and/or boys anywhere, to ask them to come and kill her parents to "rescue" her from your abuse, to use drugs, skip school, steal, lie, cheat, anything under the sun, and NONE of it will be difficult children fault.
Let the top dog know, in writing, that his organization, Ms. Ally and him specifically will be held accountable for ANYTHING difficult child does from this point on. That if she kills someone, steals, breaks any law, hurts anyone, that you will hold THEM accountable because they handed her a gift wrapped excuse on a solid gold platter to do any dang thing she wants to do. You will ONLY release them from responsiblity if they get a much more experienced person in Ms. Ally's position and they send difficult child to a GOOD Residential Treatment Center (RTC) that fits her needs - and if they allow her to refuse to go? You will drive difficult child to the top dog's office and leave her there to go home and ruin HIS life, his children, his finances and put everyone and everything he cares about in the dangerous position his employee and organization has now put YOU and your family in (including your daughter who is being greatly damaged by this and you are terrified for her safety because now nothing is her responsibility and she has already engaged in extremely risky, scary behaviors!).
Ms. Ally has sunk to this level because otherwise she has to face the fact that she hasn't done a dang thing that helped difficult child in any way. That unless/until seh gets difficult child into Residential Treatment Center (RTC) of some kind there will be NO improvement and possible great deterioration in difficult child's behavior and choices.
You might even tell them that now you feel you have NO choice but to turn difficult child over to CPS - you love her with ever fiber of your being and want her to get better. You don't believe what Ms. Ally said was true, but if there is even the TINIEST chance that it is correct, you have no option other than to turn her over to Ms. Ally and Top Dog's loving care. You will be by one day this week to leave her at his office with all of her things. Could he please ahve the paperwork ready for you to sign? You cannot take the chance of further damaging her and since he and Ms. Ally are so perfect, tehy can rescue her and fix her.
I am proud that you did not pound ms. A into dust then an there.
H
HaoZi
Guest
I third that. Then I ditto what Susie said. Sorry, getting in here late.
klmno
Active Member
That's exactly right, DF. And that's how probation & parole officers end up costing parents everything they have in this state. Here, MST is thru the courts with a PO involved and ordering it so the parent is da***ed if they do and d***ed if they don't. TG I was able to sidetrack it and get the order dropped with a letter from the MST guy saying we had tried it and I was already doing quite well with the types of things he teaches.
Steely
Active Member
Very late coming into this.....I feel so angry, repulsed, angry and indignant I may come up there myself and "deal" with ms A.I am beyond words that society can continue to use the parents as the scapegoats. Especially the parents like us that sacrifice everything for our kids.My mind is numb and fiery over this repetitive blame on parents.Sooooo many hugs to you. You are not alone, pls know that.
graceupongrace
New Member
DF,
So sorry you had to endure this koi from Ms. Ally. She clearly doesn't see that you have spent a ridiculous amount of time, energy and money trying to help difficult child precisely because you love her.
(((Hugs)))
So sorry you had to endure this koi from Ms. Ally. She clearly doesn't see that you have spent a ridiculous amount of time, energy and money trying to help difficult child precisely because you love her.
(((Hugs)))
pepperidge
New Member
I had to look up what MST was, didn't have a clue. Some interesting principles I found on the MST website you might want to ask ms. Ally about. I can't figure how to highlight. See Prininciples 2,4 8 and 9. Ms ally might need a refresher course.
Principle 1: Finding the fit
An assessment is made to understand the "fit" between identified problems and how they play out and make sense in the entire context of the youth's environment. Assessing the 'fit' of the youth's successes also helps guide the treatment process.
Principle 2: Focusing on positives and strengths
MST Therapists and team members emphasize the positives they find and use strengths in the youth's world as levers for positive change. Focusing on family strengths has numerous advantages, such as building on strategies the family already knows how to use, building feelings of hope, identifying protective factors, decreasing frustration by emphasizing problem solving and enhancing caregivers' confidence.
Principle 3: Increasing responsibility
Interventions are designed to promote responsible behavior and decrease irresponsible actions by family members.
Principle 4: Present focused, action oriented and well defined
Interventions deal with what's happening now in the delinquent's life. Therapists look for action that can be taken immediately, targeting specific and well-defined problems. Such interventions enable participants to track the progress of the treatment and provide clear criteria to measure success. Family members are expected to work actively toward goals by focusing on present-oriented solutions, versus gaining insight or focusing on the past. When the clear goals are met, the treatment can end.
Principle 5: Targeting sequences
Interventions target sequences of behavior within and between the various interacting elements of the adolescent's life—family, teachers, friends, home, school and community—that sustain the identified problems.
Principle 6: Developmentally appropriate
Interventions are set up to be appropriate to the youth's age and fit his or her developmental needs. A developmental emphasis stresses building the adolescent's ability to get along well with peers and acquire academic and vocational skills that will promote a successful transition to adulthood.
Principle 7: Continuous effort
Interventions require daily or weekly effort by family members so that the youth and family have frequent opportunities to demonstrate their commitment. Advantages of intensive and multifaceted efforts to change include more rapid problem resolution, earlier identification of when interventions need fine-tuning, continuous evaluation of outcomes, more frequent corrective interventions, more opportunities for family members to experience success and giving the family power to orchestrate their own changes.
Principle 8: Evaluation and accountability
Intervention effectiveness is evaluated continuously from multiple perspectives with MST team members being held accountable for overcoming barriers to successful outcomes. MST does not label families as 'resistant, not ready for change or unmotivated.' This approach avoids blaming the family and places the responsibility for positive treatment outcomes on the MST team.
Principle 9: Generalization
Interventions are designed to invest the caregivers with the ability to address the family's needs after the intervention is over. The caregiver is viewed as the key to long-term success. Family members drive the change process in collaboration with the MST therapist.
Principle 1: Finding the fit
An assessment is made to understand the "fit" between identified problems and how they play out and make sense in the entire context of the youth's environment. Assessing the 'fit' of the youth's successes also helps guide the treatment process.
Principle 2: Focusing on positives and strengths
MST Therapists and team members emphasize the positives they find and use strengths in the youth's world as levers for positive change. Focusing on family strengths has numerous advantages, such as building on strategies the family already knows how to use, building feelings of hope, identifying protective factors, decreasing frustration by emphasizing problem solving and enhancing caregivers' confidence.
Principle 3: Increasing responsibility
Interventions are designed to promote responsible behavior and decrease irresponsible actions by family members.
Principle 4: Present focused, action oriented and well defined
Interventions deal with what's happening now in the delinquent's life. Therapists look for action that can be taken immediately, targeting specific and well-defined problems. Such interventions enable participants to track the progress of the treatment and provide clear criteria to measure success. Family members are expected to work actively toward goals by focusing on present-oriented solutions, versus gaining insight or focusing on the past. When the clear goals are met, the treatment can end.
Principle 5: Targeting sequences
Interventions target sequences of behavior within and between the various interacting elements of the adolescent's life—family, teachers, friends, home, school and community—that sustain the identified problems.
Principle 6: Developmentally appropriate
Interventions are set up to be appropriate to the youth's age and fit his or her developmental needs. A developmental emphasis stresses building the adolescent's ability to get along well with peers and acquire academic and vocational skills that will promote a successful transition to adulthood.
Principle 7: Continuous effort
Interventions require daily or weekly effort by family members so that the youth and family have frequent opportunities to demonstrate their commitment. Advantages of intensive and multifaceted efforts to change include more rapid problem resolution, earlier identification of when interventions need fine-tuning, continuous evaluation of outcomes, more frequent corrective interventions, more opportunities for family members to experience success and giving the family power to orchestrate their own changes.
Principle 8: Evaluation and accountability
Intervention effectiveness is evaluated continuously from multiple perspectives with MST team members being held accountable for overcoming barriers to successful outcomes. MST does not label families as 'resistant, not ready for change or unmotivated.' This approach avoids blaming the family and places the responsibility for positive treatment outcomes on the MST team.
Principle 9: Generalization
Interventions are designed to invest the caregivers with the ability to address the family's needs after the intervention is over. The caregiver is viewed as the key to long-term success. Family members drive the change process in collaboration with the MST therapist.
Marguerite
Active Member
All along pretty much, you have seen Ms Ally as the possible chance for this to work. She has seemed, more than any of the others, to have a clue. So I think there is perhaps a chance to use her greater openness, to try to resolve this as far as possible to everyone's satisfaction.
First - she is out of line to say you are not showing enough love to your child. However, to an outside observer at the moment, you probably are NOT showing much physical demonstrativeness towards difficult child. First the kid would probably punch you out if you tried to hug her, and second it is very hard to express love towards someone whose sole communication with you is screaming. So I suggest you sit Ms Ally down and have a heart to heart with her. Use every trick in the psychology textbook, including using "I" statements and not "you" statements. For example, DO NOT say, "You are out of line to say it's my fault." Instead, you CAN say, "I felt very hurt when you said that I don't know how to difficult child enough love. I do love her, I have always shown her I love her, but she is a child with some known psychiatric diagnoses and these are making my life as a parent very difficult. This is not a problem I have created. This is a problem within her brain, caused by a biochemical imbalance. I asked for help because I love her and want to find a way to reach her, even with these mental problems."
By expressing your concerns as "I" and not "you", Ms Ally then has the choice to take this on board as a criticism, or not. She is more likely to hear what you have to say and to really listen.
Next - I would go through that list that pepperidge dug out. Sit with Ms Ally and tick the boxes. Explain exactly how you have met all these criteria, or how the problems are so far beyond those criteria as to simply not be applicable. Tell her that you are going through this process in order to determine what is left that can be tried, and to see if together, you and she can come up with a realistic, workable plan. Together. Workable. Realistic.
And the final question for Ms Ally - "Is MST guaranteed to work in every case? What happens if it fails despite the best efforts of all involved? What if, for example, you have a child who is on drugs and prostituting themselves to pay for the habit, and you try these techniques to try to get the kid back on the straight and narrow? Can you see these methods being able to work in that purely hypothetical situation? And if you can see that some situations exist where MST won't be the right answer, can you see that there is a chance that by the time we yelled for help from MST, it was actually too big a problem? And perhaps can you advise us ono what the next step could be, once we realise that MST has thrown everything possible at the problem, and bounced?"
Your focus through this entire meeting will be - "I love my child, I want to help my child, she is mentally ill and I am no longer able to cope. I asked for help because these problems are so far outside 'normal' but I am increasingly feeling like I am being blamed. I really, really want help, but it needs to be workable. I need you to work with me on this. We are a team."
I have seen this sort of issue before - we have a mob here called Family Advocacy. I contacted them to get their support in setting up a SpEd class for high-functioning autistics. They had been so supportive before, but as soon as I mentioned a separate SpEd class for these kids, they became hostile and shut down. I later found out that their main brief is inclusion, always, at all costs. That is their goal, and to suggest taking autistic kids out of mainstream and setting up a SpEd class for them was anathema. I didn't know this and it caused me a lot of problems until I worked it out.
So if MST have a specific agenda (as they seem to) and it is actually not going to be what you really need - where can you go from here? Especially if you need them to refer you to someone more appropriate?
It might be time to write all this down and contact your congressman, if you live in a system that mandates MST involvement at some stage in the process. Because at the moment, it seems MST is set up for failure, in cases like this. If there is no alternative to MST currently, maybe it is time to lobby for something better. As always, show them the money - demonstrate how providing something more appropriate for those tough cases, will save money in the long run. The cost of crime - a kid gone to the bad, a kid who becomes a lifelong mental health cost and drain on the community - has to be considered as worst case scenario. Also the loss of productivity with you being so tied down by this. They're the buttons that work with politicians the whole world over.
Marg
First - she is out of line to say you are not showing enough love to your child. However, to an outside observer at the moment, you probably are NOT showing much physical demonstrativeness towards difficult child. First the kid would probably punch you out if you tried to hug her, and second it is very hard to express love towards someone whose sole communication with you is screaming. So I suggest you sit Ms Ally down and have a heart to heart with her. Use every trick in the psychology textbook, including using "I" statements and not "you" statements. For example, DO NOT say, "You are out of line to say it's my fault." Instead, you CAN say, "I felt very hurt when you said that I don't know how to difficult child enough love. I do love her, I have always shown her I love her, but she is a child with some known psychiatric diagnoses and these are making my life as a parent very difficult. This is not a problem I have created. This is a problem within her brain, caused by a biochemical imbalance. I asked for help because I love her and want to find a way to reach her, even with these mental problems."
By expressing your concerns as "I" and not "you", Ms Ally then has the choice to take this on board as a criticism, or not. She is more likely to hear what you have to say and to really listen.
Next - I would go through that list that pepperidge dug out. Sit with Ms Ally and tick the boxes. Explain exactly how you have met all these criteria, or how the problems are so far beyond those criteria as to simply not be applicable. Tell her that you are going through this process in order to determine what is left that can be tried, and to see if together, you and she can come up with a realistic, workable plan. Together. Workable. Realistic.
And the final question for Ms Ally - "Is MST guaranteed to work in every case? What happens if it fails despite the best efforts of all involved? What if, for example, you have a child who is on drugs and prostituting themselves to pay for the habit, and you try these techniques to try to get the kid back on the straight and narrow? Can you see these methods being able to work in that purely hypothetical situation? And if you can see that some situations exist where MST won't be the right answer, can you see that there is a chance that by the time we yelled for help from MST, it was actually too big a problem? And perhaps can you advise us ono what the next step could be, once we realise that MST has thrown everything possible at the problem, and bounced?"
Your focus through this entire meeting will be - "I love my child, I want to help my child, she is mentally ill and I am no longer able to cope. I asked for help because these problems are so far outside 'normal' but I am increasingly feeling like I am being blamed. I really, really want help, but it needs to be workable. I need you to work with me on this. We are a team."
I have seen this sort of issue before - we have a mob here called Family Advocacy. I contacted them to get their support in setting up a SpEd class for high-functioning autistics. They had been so supportive before, but as soon as I mentioned a separate SpEd class for these kids, they became hostile and shut down. I later found out that their main brief is inclusion, always, at all costs. That is their goal, and to suggest taking autistic kids out of mainstream and setting up a SpEd class for them was anathema. I didn't know this and it caused me a lot of problems until I worked it out.
So if MST have a specific agenda (as they seem to) and it is actually not going to be what you really need - where can you go from here? Especially if you need them to refer you to someone more appropriate?
It might be time to write all this down and contact your congressman, if you live in a system that mandates MST involvement at some stage in the process. Because at the moment, it seems MST is set up for failure, in cases like this. If there is no alternative to MST currently, maybe it is time to lobby for something better. As always, show them the money - demonstrate how providing something more appropriate for those tough cases, will save money in the long run. The cost of crime - a kid gone to the bad, a kid who becomes a lifelong mental health cost and drain on the community - has to be considered as worst case scenario. Also the loss of productivity with you being so tied down by this. They're the buttons that work with politicians the whole world over.
Marg
klmno
Active Member
About this list- ok take #3- that translates into "blame the parents and make them change". Really- it's like those buzz words people in juvenule CSU use. The "words" all sound good to the public so everyone buys into it-"juvenile probation/parole officers 'work with' families to support the family and youth", for example, translates into micro managing the parental decisions and taking over their lives.
The only way to make these "monitored programs" come out successful is to already have the problem worked out at home by the time these people get involved or to somehow cover up any problem so the monitoring person thinks the problem got resolved, in my humble opinion. I really haven't heard from anyone in this state at least, that says their family of difficult child got turned around this way. I have known people though who just somehow convinced POs that everything suddenly got resolved, when the difficult child was still out of control.
Another thought about MST- guy we had seemed to believe that ALL of difficult children' issues were based on the theory like Pavlow's dog- I don't know if this applies to all MST workers or not but I can see where the whole program might be based on this methodology- if a kid gets consistent rewards and consequences, the behavior will change to what is acceptable. And if that doesn't work, it MUST be because the kid wasn't given proper nurturing in early development that lead him/her to think normally as an adolescent or adult. It's based solely on the Pavlow's Dog approach (for lack of better phrase)- conditioning I guess- but we all know that doesn't always apply when dealing with human beings, much less difficult children.
The only way to make these "monitored programs" come out successful is to already have the problem worked out at home by the time these people get involved or to somehow cover up any problem so the monitoring person thinks the problem got resolved, in my humble opinion. I really haven't heard from anyone in this state at least, that says their family of difficult child got turned around this way. I have known people though who just somehow convinced POs that everything suddenly got resolved, when the difficult child was still out of control.
Another thought about MST- guy we had seemed to believe that ALL of difficult children' issues were based on the theory like Pavlow's dog- I don't know if this applies to all MST workers or not but I can see where the whole program might be based on this methodology- if a kid gets consistent rewards and consequences, the behavior will change to what is acceptable. And if that doesn't work, it MUST be because the kid wasn't given proper nurturing in early development that lead him/her to think normally as an adolescent or adult. It's based solely on the Pavlow's Dog approach (for lack of better phrase)- conditioning I guess- but we all know that doesn't always apply when dealing with human beings, much less difficult children.
H
HaoZi
Guest
I had to look up MST, too. There's an awful lot of "improve parenting skills" type of things there, which I read as "blame the parents."
