Update - the more things change, the more they stay the same


Active Member
I haven't been around in a while- things have been rocking along fairly drama free- but as we all know, the other shoe always seems to drop.

Today's update centers around the fact that as hard as I try- and as much as my "logical" side "gets it"- I have a very hard time dealing with the fact that my son can be so completely UNGRATEFUL.

As you know (or may recall), my son has a 9 month old baby (those 9 months have FLOWN by)- and has actually done pretty good- the job he has - he has had since November. He's paying his child support (even though the baby is with him four nights a week and every other weekend, but whatever)....

It's always something 'small' that becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back. I keep telling myself that I KNOW how he is, I KNEW this about him- and yet it has gone from just making me angry to actually hurting my feelings.

Case in point- he is paid twice a month. Two weeks ago he got paid and he and his sister came by my house to show me what he had gone and bought the baby - things like swimming pampers (that aren't needed until the 2nd week of June when we are going to the coast for one night- tagging along with my daughter on a work trip)- etc. I told him- son, make sure you have gas money put up for NEXT week- don't forget that! "I know, I know"

This past saturday- I get a text asking if he can 'borrow' $20 for gas for the week.


So I reminded him that we had this conversation the weekend before, for one, and for two- we've had this conversation TOO MANY times. You KNOW you need to get back and forth to work, you KNOW you need gas in your car to do this- why, at 23, are you STILL putting your hand out to your 'mommy' and asking for money for things like this?

Foolish me, I gave him $20. So stupid. Upon having him follow me to the ATM, I mentioned that the gas station right next to the bank was the same as Stripes (which historically has the cheapest gas in town but is out of the way)- he stated he was going to Stripes (and as I type this I realize how *&%$*@$ stupid this whole conversation is)- takes the money. Leaves.

No 'thanks'. No "I'll do better next payday", No "I really appreciate that you help me when I need it".

I go home.

Sunday morning, I wake up and get on facebook on my tablet and notice he is SELLING his headboard (which was VERY nice, he got it for FREE from his job)- and ok, I'm thinking- now wait a minute. Yesterday, you needed $20 (which I really couldn't afford to give him- I do this, it seems, to my own detriment)- and yet if he sells this- why couldn't he do this yesterday or INSTEAD of asking ME?

So I message his sister to just ask why- she mentions that I asked.

I just spiraled downhill from there.

So where we stand now, in a nutshell:

I don't do anything for him, so he's got to do what he's got to do
I don't need to worry about what he does
I don't need to worry about buying anything for his baby because he can do all that
I can't give him a break when he's trying
I think he knows how to 'adult' when he's still learning

This one, this is on me. But this has hurt my feelings- which is what makes me angry. All I do for him? Too much, for one. I've even told him before (I'm a believer in making your voice heard when someone treats you badly)- all I've ever wanted was a sincere thanks. Seriously.

So, he's evidently not talking to me (whatever)- and then was like, if we are going to the coast and you are going to go and tell me what to do (I actually have made a very concerted effort to bite my tongue when he has the baby- seriously- he has to learn and I don't want to be a nag- it's a wonder I have a tongue)....then he won't go and if he doesn't go, then the baby can't go.

So I told my daughter I wasn't going to go.

If he weren't my son- I'd have NOTHING to do with him. Everyone owes him.

I envy those with kids who are loving and thankful and are overall nice people.


one day at a time
Hi Penny and we're glad you're back! I know, they are so infuriating!!!! Anytime the "ask" for money comes, even today, I tense up. Difficult Child borrowed $30 from me last week, and then paid me back on his payday. World of difference from where we used to be (him using me).

They only tell us as much as they need to...in order to get what they need. Thus the headboard story you told.

I think it's almost like giving a homeless person some money. If you decide to do it, do it with no strings attached and walk away. No "they better not buy beer with it," or "I wonder how many other people gave them money already" etc. Just give it, no expectations, and let it go.

I would rather it be a gift than expect it back because then, what if they don't pay it back, then what are we to do? I became very very tired over the years of the drama. Today, I cannot stand drama. And DCs seem to be drenched in drama.

So...it's done now. What will you do next time? That's the question. Do we learn from this stuff?

Hang in there! Let it gooooooooooooooo. It's not worth the angst.


If focused on a single leaf you won't see the tree
I haven't been around in a while- things have been rocking along fairly drama free- but as we all know, the other shoe always seems to drop.

Foolish me, I gave him $20. So stupid. Upon having him follow me to the ATM, I mentioned that the gas station right next to the bank was the same as Stripes (which historically has the cheapest gas in town but is out of the way)- he stated he was going to Stripes (and as I type this I realize how *&%$*@$ stupid this whole conversation is)- takes the money. Leaves.

Oh I have been there so many times. They make the stories so believable. You believe them- then find out later, that the money went for something else or to someone else. It's so frustrating because we have our own stuff to worry about, finances, life, etc then we have to stop and help them, it just throws us out of kilter and we don't always think quick enough on our feet. We let our guard down.

I once fell for the story that son needed to go to anger management class ordered by the court. Yes, it was ordered, it was on his papers. Ok. Check, I verified that. So he next says, well so and so, can take me but he needs gas money because it's in this town, so like 20 minute drive (son doesn't drive, never has). Anyways, I wire him the money. I later call him to find out how the class was and he tells me, Oh so and so's truck wouldn't start so we couldn't go. Ok, fine. Then the next day he calls and asks for more money. I said, wait you had gas money yesterday. He says, yes, but the dude put gas in the tank and then the truck wouldn't start. So now he is hungry, needs cigarettes and has no money because the money I gave him is in the gas tank. I said, you know, I will call parole officer about your class and tell him you just can't get there-. He says, no, don't do that. I said why, he says, well, ah ummm, he is on vacation, so he is not there. Such BS. I did call. Well, that is a story for another time. But they just lie so well and we fall for it a few times.

I wonder if next time, just go to the gas station with him and put the gas in yourself vs. giving cash. I have learned to give McDonald coupons vs. money. Food gift cards at particular stores vs. cash.

He called today and wanted cash to buy hygiene products, needed sheets for his bed for new room he is renting, laundry detergent,razors, shaving creams, socks, etc. So instead of wiring the money, I ordered things off amazon. com and it is being mailed to him.

I think you should book a spa day for yourself since you aren't going with them. So something fun and relaxing for you.


I Am The Walrus
I don't give mine money. The last time I gave her money and told her I considered it a loan and she was to pay it back, she flipped completely out. In her words, I have money falling out of my @$$ and I should just give it to her. In my words, (1) I am helping YOU, YOU are an adult, YOU don't get to be angry, (2) I have helped you several times without expecting it repaid and that is not how the world works, I am not an ATM, (3) You can either act like an adult and do the right thing or ask someone else, (4) and do not ask for another penny until you can show me this is repaid.

She never repaid it. Not another cent.


The last time my son asked to borrow money ( he has never ever paid back a single penny he has 'borrowed' from me ) I made it clear that if he didn't pay me back I would not lend him another penny. He never paid me back. That along with the ungrateful bratty behaviour was enough for me.
This group has given me permission to say no. I honestly thought I was doing the right thing, even though I knew nothing was changing. Realising that he would never work things out for himself if I always solved things was a huge wake up for me. They are far more resourceful than we give them credit for. That said, he has recently moved into a room in a house. When he rings saying he has no electric, food etc - we'll have to see. I want to be strong. We do have to learn from this or else what's the point in going through this pain.
Stay strong Penny. We're right there with you x


Well-Known Member
There must be good kitchens and pantries in your country. Saying they are hungry is often to get us to hand them drug money. If he doesn't tell the truth, then if he says he has no heat, you may want to check that for yourself.


Well-Known Member
Ours doesn't really ask for money right now, due in part to living with us and having no expenses. He does seem to need cigarettes and rides here and there a lot. Just last night, he asked if we could pick up a friend who got stranded about 20 minutes out of town. The friend was at his cousins house. They had both been at a bike rally out of town and the cousin apparently didn't want to bring him the rest of the way in. I refused and, surprise, the friend had found a ride and was in town within the hour.

Yeah, the complete lack of gratitude makes it very hard to take. I couldn't help but think how this would have happened with me when I still lived at home. The fact of the matter is, I would have asked and immediately said I'd top off the gas tank before bringing the car back. My parents wouldn't have batted an eye at giving me the keys because they knew I would do it. I would have said thanks and been appreciative of the use of the car.

Then again, if I was living at home and only working part time, my dad wouldn't have to mow the lawn. My mom wouldn't be doing dishes or vacuuming. Would definitely be earning the bed they were letting me use where as I have to keep reminding my son just to get the dishes out of the bedroom and wash them.


If focused on a single leaf you won't see the tree
Jabberwockey- I had a friend years ago. She and her husband went on vacation for a week, left 17 year old son home for the week. He was a pretty good kid. Well he had a few friends over for a little party that turned into a huge party. Parents came home, found pot in the house, his pot. They stripped everything out of his room. Gave him a pillow and a blanket and a change of clothes daily. He had to earn everything back. They made him do a piss test right there and then every day. He ended up being a great kid and never touched drugs again.

My middle son when he was 18 disrespected me and got all angry about something stupid, I washed his shirt, and when he came home it was in washer. It was his golfing shirt he needed that day to go golfing(he just got off work). So while he was enjoying his shower and being all pissed off- I took his clothes and threw them outside on the deck. When he went to leave he was shocked. Just told him take your crap and leave- you will not live here and disrespect me. Well he left but called me from golf course and apologized and said he just was told by girlfriend on his way home from work that she had cheated on him. I got the blunt of his hurt and anger. I said he could come back as he knew I wouldn't tolerate any disrespect. He never disrespected me again.

Maybe start cleaning out son's room and have him earn his stuff back. Just a thought.


Active Member
Well, the proverbial **** has hit the fan.

As it always does.

I told my daughter- I TOLD HER- not to sign a lease with her brother on a two bedroom, giving up her one bedroom. I TOLD her.

No one listens to me.

She was sincerely trying to help him.

But alas, as it always does- things happen and all of a sudden- he's going back to live with his baby's mother. The one who has an assault charge pending for assaulting HIM.

they both smoke weed.

they fight like crazy- but she's a weak one- she got a settlement check from a wreck so she's 'buying him'.

big blow up this morning between son and his sister. Bigger than it should have been.

So now she's in a lease she can't afford on her own.

She can't afford to pay her way out of it.

I know that she did it with good intentions. Now I will worry about this baby every single day.

I can't even type for crying. This is just too much. Too much.


Active Member
I'm more worried now about the grandbaby. AT LEAST when my son was staying with his sister, I knew the baby was ok 4 nights a week. I generally had the baby every other weekend. Now I'll probably see him very little. I'm his only real place of peace. He's only 9 months old. He doesn't deserve two parents like this. He doesn't. He's just a baby. an innocent baby. I tell myself that this is not something I can control. He is their son. Their responsibility. I just don't know how to NOT spin myself into a mess over this. I could go my lifetime without ever dealing with my son again. I don't LIKE him. But my sweet grandbaby? He does not deserve this at all.
oh my...here I am again. I just posted that I called CPS on Son's girlfriend already.

Seems we are having similar problems. Grand baby problems I mean. Mine are just beginning.

I can only hope to get some free alone time with mine. So far it hasn't happened.

I went to search the threads and look for others with CPS issues and crazy son's crazy girlfriend problems to find some advice. lol.. And I see Penny's again.

Well, I am not much help as I am just learning how to deal with crazy abusive girlfriend now, but thanks for sharing...

Also, I do hope this gets figured out for you soon. It does sound hard. I am so lost on whether or not I can handle it. It's already a nightmare. I am so afraid that once I go all in, which I pretty much have, that they will rip this baby out of my life, which is somewhat happening anyway...I still have no rights yet...no parentage established yet, and my Son's in rehab for another 50 or so days. UGH.

Good luck to my familiar friend Penny
Oh yeah...youre right. CPS can be an utter waste of tax payer money and time.

I did it anyway, knowing this, but i really feel I was left with no choice. In this case I feel i need to start establishing something fast, as truly girlfriend is a real honey bee...not.


Well-Known Member
I worked at head start and we had two CPS workers talk to us as we see things all the time most people consider appalling, such as one child coming to school with dog feces all over her shoes and socks, parents who were brutal to their kids and those who wore thin coats and sandals in the snow. We were allowed to ask questions. As we were mandated reporters, they were brutally honest with us.

Basically the workers regretfully told us that the bar for any parent losing custody is extremely high. None of the above were nearly enough to remove a child and unless we saw a parent physically or sexually abusing a child or the child was bruised from head to toe who had multiple fractures documented by a doctor, it is unlikely a parent will lose custody. The courts simply don't like to remove kids from their parents homes. They will work with parents over and over again rather than remove them. Verbal abuse doesn't count because there is no establishment of what it is.

I saw this in foster care too. One child's mother had thrown her infant son into a wall and he spent a year in a cast, nursed by loving foster parents who wanted to adopt him. But after the toddler was better, CPS said mother had met all qualifications to he considered rehabilitated and she got him back, at CPS insistence. Foster parents got a lawyer to no avail.​

A few months late, this rehabilitated mother said she didn't want the boy anymore. He was difficult now,with severe behavior problems. You'd think CP S would give him back to the people who loved him and wanted to adopt him. Nope. He went to strangers.

By then this boy was a mess, really acting out, kicking, biting, hurting animals, screaming...the new family asked CPS to remove him.

Now he was three or four and CP S finally gave him back to his first foster parents. He didn't remember them and was a regular wild child, but they did adopt him. That's the last I heard. If CP S had been more on the ball, this child may have been better.

Sadly, this is but one story I heard when I did foster care.

CP S has scary power and often doesn't use it sensibly. Most of our social workers were fresh out of school and never had children. Older ones were tired and some had poor judgment...the goal is almost always reunification.

I don't trust CPS, but they are the only game in town. However, it is not a good game.big wish you good luck. If you report too often YOU can get into trouble for harassment unless you have proof of parental bad behavior.

I get tired thinking about my three years trying to advocate for these poor kids. We quit after adopting Sonic and, trust me, it was not easy to get his mothers rights terminated even though:
He was born with cocaine in his system and with syphilis

His birth mother walked out of the hospital AM A and never attended one court hearing towards regaining custody. She never showed for visitation.

Had four other drug exposed kids with her mother, who said she was too worn out to take custody for Sonic too.

Walked out of rehab eleven times when the state tried to help her get clean.

It took the court 4 years to terminate her parental rights, although she didn't want him.

I am so over CP S, but still urge you to keep trying. Focus on physical abuse and take him to a doctor for documentation. A chaotic, fighting family is not grounds for a parent losing custody. Stay diligent. If sis wants custody, she could get it as child is living with her and so she is establishing a strong relationship with him by living with him and caring for him. That matters. Talk with a lawyer. Often the first consultation is free.
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