Update!

M

ML

Guest
I am thrilled he got approved for medicaid and 99 percent of the team is on board with Residential Treatment Center (RTC). I would like to throttle the PO! Overall things are finally going in the right direction. Hang in there, you are soo close. Keep us in the loop KLMNO. Love and hugs ML
 

klmno

Active Member
Very good food for thought, Marg! Thank you! I'll post what I know and think I see regarding PO and maybe you and others can help me from there. But, there might not be any way for me to lead her to change her outlook about me and difficult child- if she can't figure it out by seeing people like the judge and attnys over-riding her, I doubt she is open-minded enough to change her view.

When she first got involved nearly 2 years ago as difficult child's PO, I think she did have the opinion like you described about me giving difficult child excuses for bad behavior. Also, I think our different ethnic background maybe had her feeling like he wouldn't have gotten off so light if he was from her ethnic origin. After several months with me noticing that she seemed to always disagree with me and it would not be about consistent things- like one day I was not strict enough on difficult child, then 2 weeks later I was too strict, I discussed it with GAL and GAL said she agreed with my decisions and that she thought the PO and I were from two entirely different cultural backgrounds and that was the problem.

Then, I started hearing a little about her from others and I was trying to take note of some things that maybe would help me understand her better. I am a person who believes in trying to build bridges between differences instead of feeding stereotypes and prejudices, so I really tried. She is in her early twenties and has recently married a man with 2 (I think) real young children. She has a couple of photos of a baby in her office as well, so I don't know if this is her baby or not- I never saw her pregnant. Others (the policeman from school, attny's, the principal) have said the PO is really looking to get me in trouble with the judge (these are the people who don't know her well but have talked with her about us) or that she is "not a very nice person", "difficult to get along with", "not very friendly", "seems to have a grudge" (these are the people who have worked with her on more than just difficult child's case. So, then I started thinking that maybe she is a person that feels she and her ethnic group have been so victimized in the past that unwittingly, it has turned into reverse- discrimination and I need to let her know that I might not fit her stereotype.

But, it got stickier when she tried to tell me not to have an MDE done on difficult child after I applied at the state "expert" place on mood disorders and after several months, found out that they had agreed to evaluation difficult child. This was after his regular psychiatrist had just evaluation'd him for bipolar and there was still a lot of doubt about what was going on with difficult child. Of course, I tried to discuss this with PO and explain why this was important, but she didn't care- she told me it was a waste of time and I shouldn't take him. Well, I took him anyway which really ticked her off.

This is when others started subtly telling me that the PO's level of education and understanding of mental health and belief system regarding mental health treatment was not the same as most professional people's or as most people that she's used to dealing with or as most people who have difficult child's and advocate for them, basicly. So, instead of trying to do battle with her over difficult child's apprpriate treatment (he was on a "child in need of services" at that point), I requested a hearing before the judge to have the order changed from a treatment that addressed conduct disorder (behavioral contract) to treatment that was recommended by the mental health profs that had evaluation'd him so I could get his meood disorder addressed. The PO acted like she thought the judge would NEVER agree to that.

But, the judge heard the case. This is also when we got into things pertaining to my family, my therapy as a young adult, my parental decisions, etc. We got into all that then because it was a hearing where everyone involved was in the court room except difficult child and a lot of this stuff would not have been appropriate to discuss in front of difficult child. Now, at the end of that hearing, the judge did rule in my favor and it appeared obvious that the judge knew that I was making competent decisions regarding difficult child. They learned about the dysfunction in the family I was raised in, the abuse, and how my step-father gave me strength to hang in there. They learned how I got myself out of it, put myself through therapy in my early 20's, and got myself a college degree. They learned that while my family still sees me as the "defected" person because of all of that, I see them as the "untreated" ones because they never even acknowledged to themselves or anyone else that they have problems too, much less received any help to overcome their own issues. Of course, I had to give specific examples and I did. At the end of it, they were asking questions to make sure I was protecting difficult child from all my other family. I told them that I was sure there were still dysfunctional tendencies that I was passing to difficult child, both genetically and environmentally, but I was doing the best I could to minimize them and help him to understand that he doesn't have to be another statistic- he can learn to take control and responsibility for his life instead of sitting back letting his life just happen and never getting out of the system.

Anyway, after that, it seemed like everyone treated me with a little more respect except PO. She spent the next few months acting toward me like ... well, she wouldn't look me in the eye and she would try to explain the most basic things about kids to me. I got the impression that she thought I didn't have a clue about any kind of home life or difficult child's basic needs- like he needs to have homework time on school nights and stuff like that. Like I must have just fallen off the turnip truck- never mind that I'd been raising difficult child for 13 years and had testified about things like it bothering me when I saw other parents let their kids eat candy and soda at dinner time on a regular basis instead of healthy meals- so others noticed that I was in tune with raising a healthy child, but PO couldn't see that for some reason. She treated me like I was clueless and started treating difficult child like she felt sorry for him. I had made effort to personalize difficult child when I testified last year, but still, I thought everyone could tell that kids, including difficult child, still need rules and discipline- not to punish for the sake of pupnishment, but it is our role as parents to teach our kids how to make it in this world so someday they can live independently.

But that's the way it was with PO and she started agreeing with difficult child on things that were undermining my authority and good decisions. She seemed to be a black and white thinker; an all-or-nothing sort of person and so I did not tell her every detail of everything- that is true. For instance, she didn't know some things difficult child had done on a cell phone. These were typical teen things, but none-the-less, not permissable. I confiscated difficult child's cell phone. difficult child said he wanted it back and PO told us both that I should give it back to him, although she did know that I had confiscated it for something he had done wrong. There were a lot of things like this. She was out of line- it is not her role to make every decision like that. But it appeared that she thought she could do family therapy with us and if she just taught me and forced me to follow her parental advice, we would be so much better off. And, she appeared to get a grudge if I didn't and want to stress a point that she had ultimate authority in our lives and I better do what she said or she'd take me in front of judge.

Of course, when she went to her super and said I wouldn't follow her authority and advice, I'm sure he got a bad attitude toward me. But see, she also claimed that I refused to do that therapy that was originally ordered, too. That leaves others with a bad impression of me as a mother. But it isn't true- yes, the PO lies. Me taking documentation to the judge and the judge changing her order in order for us to do what the profs recommend is not the same as what PO claimed- that I was unwilling and refused.

So, if she was objective and well-meaning, we could discuss things and maybe work something out. But, not only is she not as knowledgable as she thinks she is, I don't think she is driven by wanting to do the right thing. I think she is driven by wanting to prove that she has authority over me and that I need to be making parental decisions that she says, whether I agree with them or not.

She actually had told me last spring that I was not giving difficult child enough freedom at one point (this was after she told me I gave him too much because I took him to a park to pick up garbage after being grounded for being in trouble- which GAL backed me up on), then went to court and told the judge that I should be held accountable for difficult child going out and getting into trouble in the first place because I hadn't known exactly where he was. But everyone knew, difficult child left home without permission and got into trouble 20-30 mins later. Then, when difficult child told her he wished he could play M rated games like his friends were allowed to, she told us that I should let him, that she even lets her young step-sons play them. Not only is this not her place to dictate our family values, but difficult child's psychiatrist and therapist had agreed that difficult child should not be playing these games and that really, no young children should be playing M rated games. It would be one thing if we could just agree that we believe in raising children differently, but for her to tell my son that I should be letting him do those things causes problems, then when she gets mad and acts like I refuse to comply by her authority because of it, it leaves me no choice but to defend myself, in my humble opinion.

Maybe it's just a control issue in her mind, but not only do I think I need to keep the authority in my house, but I also strongly disagree with the specific decisions she tries to tell me to make. And the profs disagree with her decisions, too. It will depend on hhow this comes out on Monday. If the judge hears about some details of PO's decisions, she might agree that PO is out of line. on the other hand, the judge could take the position that it doesn't matter, the PO has authority.

One thing I can't quite put my finger on is why would she act like she has to give me orders for some things I myself have been the one to ask for and fight for.
Sorry- this is way long- I'll stop now. LOL!
 
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janebrain

New Member
Hi KLMNO,
thanks for giving us the background--I've been following your story but this sums up the PO and your relationship with her in a way I can understand better. I really have no advice just want to add my support! You truly are a warrior mom!
Jane
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
The insurance coverage is great news!

As your cyber friend I am going to share what I think is important for you to remember...even if it doesn't sound as supportive as I truly am, lol.

First and foremost I truly admire your advocacy. Secondly I am concerned that the cumulative stress and isolation during crisis "may" be diverting your attention from the true goal. Your goal is to get the best treatment placement possible for your son. You have qualified medical experts who totally agree that he is not well AND they support you all the way in your goal. Do not focus on the PO and do not plan on how you can identify her as the loser that she appears to be. The PO is not the person on trial. You will not be allowed (nor, in my humble opinion, should you try) to replace her or any other government employee. Surely your focus has to be PRO placement and not CON probation office.

I understand your stance but having been to Court :( many many times I absolutely know that your son's best interests are for you to focus your energies on his future. Furthermore I believe it is "normal" for your son to be highly anxious. You are a grown adult and you are highly anxious. Dealing with "the system" triggers anxiety. At your visit I would not try to dissuade your son. I would just reiterate how much you love him and hope that he will benefit from his future care.

Try to exhale occasionally between now and Monday. I am sending caring supportive thoughts and a few prayers your way. DDD
 

klmno

Active Member
You will not be allowed (nor, in my humble opinion, should you try) to replace her or any other government employee.

With all respect, DDD, you don't think if someone is acting as case manager for your child but is forcing decisions that no one else (who sees/hears the evidence) agrees with and who is not taking action that their job requires in our county, that you shouldn't try to get that case manager changed, or at least go above their head so they can be over-ruled?And this is after efforts to get along with them better but they continue to treat you like the one who broke the law, when I have never been charged with anything- including neglect or not getting help for my child or anything else? And when she blatantly lies about things, like saying she didn't know difficult child was doing things to hurt himself, it's about the last straw for me. But, I can prove she's lieing. Others are starting to see this too- the PO admits she rec'd and read a copy of my letter to judge. That letter states that difficult child was self-harming. If she just didn't want to believe me, that does not mean that she was not informed. She was informed before I wrote that letter in Jan, but that was verbally. She probably rec'd a copy of his tdo in Dec., however, which lists that he was tdo'd for self-harming.

I don't want to just be defensive or disregard your wise advice. Really, I don't. But I can't imagine a parent who's trying to be proactive about their child's care taking all that lying down and just tolerating it, much less going along with it.

It will end up being me on trial on Moday- not PO and not difficult child. First, I'm the only witness about his lastest charge and there will be a defense attny and GAL who have to question me from difficult child's defense. This will lead to my efforts to get difficult child help before this transpired, which will lead to the fact that all efforts were kicked back to being PO's responsibility, which leads to the question of why didn't she do anything. The evidence that I am telling the truth will be there. I don't think I'll have to point the finger at her in court- the judge and others already know that I had this documented a month before and they know who's responsibility it was. They may very well ask me if I told PO about difficult child self-harming and being in acute psychiatric hospital in Dec and Jan, for instance, and I will testify that yes, I did, because it is the truth.

As far as difficult child's current situation, they will have to over-ride the PO or replace her as difficult child's cm if judge agrees to Residential Treatment Center (RTC) because PO has already taken and said she is maintaining the position that difficult child should not get Residential Treatment Center (RTC). And it is PO who will be required at county meeting to get the paperwork needed for Residential Treatment Center (RTC)- which again, she will not do unless court ordered.

Also, I have told CA already that it will not work for difficult child to come home with this PO remaining in our lives. I have to stick to that because I know how it caused more harm than good both both of us. I also honestly believe that if this PO has to stay in difficult child's life, she will not treat another person taking care of him the same way she treats me- ie, undermining their authority and trying to micro-manage their household and ordering specific therapies just based on her parental opinions, not on the recommendations of the profs that have evaluation'd difficult child.

Let me just add: It's understandable that people would automatically give the PO the benefit of the doubt about things, just like they would take my mother's word over mine- until they meet the person and find out some details about some things, then they tend to view things differently. But just because things are usually a certain way doesn't mean they are always that way.

I truthfully do not know why the PO has an attitude of disrespect for me and seems to have a chip on her shoulder in general, based on what others tell me. I know you guys here can't be sure, but I KNOW that I did not start out with this attitude toward her. But 18 mos ago, the attny I hired to handle things when my bro file for custody told me that this PO was trying to find a way to find me in contempt of court orders. Why?

I hope it wouldn't be race- I can tell you that my personal physician (who gives my physicals and takes care of me when I'm sick), my previous neighbors, one of the tdocs we had, the person I voted for, and one of difficult child's "childhood sweethearts" are of the same ethnic group as the PO and her super, so I really don't think those are signs of someone who discriminates. It doesn't mean others couldn't discriminate against us or try to claim that though. It is unfortunate, and I would hope that isn't what is going on.
 
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DDD

Well-Known Member
I know that you respect my opinion so don't be concerned that you are hurting my feelings. I'm on your team. Really.

What I was trying to point out is that focusing on her incompetence (and I completely agree that she is not only incompetent but also dangerous to your child's future) "seemed" to be more of your focus than getting your son the right care. There is absolutely NO doubt that you want what is best for your son. None. Nada. Zip. BUT you will not be able to demean the PO and or the "system" to your advantage or your son's.

You have documentation on what your son needs. You have experts who agree with your assessment. You have done a dynamite job of advocating AND coping with unbelievable stress. You can disagree if you have the opportunity to respond to the recommendations of the PO. I am almost positive (I'd bet the bank if I still had a bank, lol) that your focus can not be trying in Court to identify her as incompetent or insensitive or anything specifically negative (such as ignorant or uninformed).

I'm not sure what the format is for court on Monday. From my experience there often is NO format. :( on the other hand I completely know from my experiences with PO's and attorneys and judges (and as a former GAL) that if you opt to "attack" (and that is what it will seem to be) a member or division of "the system" there will be a rally to that idiot's defense. I don't want you to be seen as an enemy of the system as it will bite you and your son.

Tell the truth. Utilize the experts who support you. Don't divert your focus from your son's future any more than is necessary. Do not say "I can not work with Ms. X or Mr. Y" because that will mean you are not a team player.........and "the system" wants to believe we are all on one team. Hugs. DDD
 

klmno

Active Member
Oh- now I see where you are coming from. I'm sorry- I didn't take it that way before. I agree that I can't go in there accusing anyone or blaming or attacking. I guess I'm thinking that I will be on the stand and as we (Me, GAL, defense attny) know that each other are advocating for difficult child's mental health treatment, that the things that lead up to this latest illegal activity will have to be discussed. I'm assuming that the next obvious question will be "why didn't someone stop things or get help before things got to this point". I don't mean that specific evening, because we weren't arguing or having a dispute about homework or anything like that when difficult child did what he did.

I guess I'm just venting. I did already relay some of the specifics to the CA- to let her know that I want difficult child to earn his way home and be off probation when he comes home, or at least have PO switched. Otherwise, he will not be welcome back home. I love him and will never leave his life or turn my back on him and will do what I can to stay involved and participate in his therapy/family therapy, or whatever else might be appropriate.

I plan to list out potential questions that I might get while on the stand tomorrow evening and write out appropriate responses to them so that I might handle it in a good way. When I testified last year, the GAL was questioning me and she kept going into more and more detail that I was not at all prepared for. I thought we were just going to cover the therapy recommended for difficult child, his MDE, etc. But she covered my relationships throughout my life, my childhood, my family, difficult child's father, everything.

Then, she was asking about people in difficult child's life now and the system and what was my opinion about the safety net for kids now, etc. (I was sexually abused by a family member as a teen and then got on drugs, entered an abusive marriage and fought my way out of it by going behind people's back and joining the military at 18 yo, weighing about 80 pounds, and then deliberately got myself into military trouble in order to get to a certain treatment/therapist who could and did help me turn my life around.) So, the GAL and judge were interested in what worked and didn't work for me and how the safety net played into things- or didn't play into things.

Well, I was somewhat respectful, but I basicly listed how the system failed and included how the GAL and system in general had failed my son. I apologized, but pointed out that she was assigned to open doors to more help and that's how he got the CHINS but that she had not done one single thing to get my son help or even point me in a better direction. All I know is that the judge looked royally mad and kept GAL in the courtroom after the rest of us left. Before we left though, the judge put PO on the stand and asked her what her problem was with what I was saying. It ended up with the judge rolling her eyes at the PO. Of course, we (none of us) have ever gotten into any of this with difficult child in the room- and it would not be appropriate.

The judge typed a whole lot on her personal computer the last half of my testimony last year. Of course, I have no idea what she typed but at one point, I said "your Honor, you might decide that I'm an unfit parent...". She cut me off and said "I am not going to do that". So, I definitely don't think that gives me or difficult child a free ticket to anything but I hope she typed enough or remembers enough that she knows I'm just trying to be a "warrior mom" and that sometimes the system doesn't work as well as it should.

I'm writing too much about this. LOL!! Thank you, DDD, if you made it through another long post, for clarifying what you meant. I vent here sometimes so I can be composed when I'm in front of people who make me nervous. I'll try to do better. :)
 

Marguerite

Active Member
You could probably go so far as to say that you and te PO are not always on the same page and possibly even as far as saying that the PO (perhaps due to any demands on her time and energies) sometimes has given confusing or conflicting responses; you have always endeavoured to do what is right and constent for difficult child but if the PO has for some reason not always got the full picture, she has inadvertently seen this as you being inconsistent or failing to take her good advice on board, which is not the case. You of course appreciate the time and effort the PO has put in over the years but feel that efforts now need to be best expended in a treatment sphere, in order to maximise the best possible outcome long-term for difficult child - to get him treated for his already-diagnosed mental health problems and to give him the tools he needs to develop as a law-abiding, productice and functioning member of society. The PO's undoubted talents clearly would be of better use to another family whose child is still at the acute offender stage and hasn't yet travelled so far down the mental health treatment road.

Try to say all this without puking.

It's a way of politely saying, "Thank you for all you have done for us, I think we can manage on our own from here, your talents are now needed elsewhere". It means exactly the same as, "You are only an interfering, counter-productive nuisance to us, go away." But it is said in terms which are very difficult to contradict, without the PO seeming ungracious.

When she offers you such basic advice that it's bleedin' obvious, thank her politely with wide-eyed amazement, then go and do things your way anyway. Avoid sarcasm - she will only see it as insolence.

Another angle - write it all down. WHen she gives you advice, make it clear that her words are so important to you that you have to write them down immediately, word for word, so you won't forget. Date it. Try to keep your notes as detailed as possible. Then when she says something conflicting, again have it all written down. Let her know you're writing it all down but make it clear you are doing this because you value her wisdom. She may suspecrt otherwise, but what can she do? If she KNOWS you are logging all her words, maybe she will be more careful. If she is NOT more careful, then you still have detailed notes on what she has said and thiscan be tendered as evidence of her level of interference, if it does come down to a future "showdown at the OK Corral."

You may never need those notes. Sometimes simply making those notes and having them, can give you a sense of confidence in what you decide to do.

Marg
 

klmno

Active Member
The PO's undoubted talents clearly would be of better use to another family whose child is still at the acute offender stage and hasn't yet travelled so far down the mental health treatment road.

I like that!! Thank you!

Try to say all this without puking.

:rofl::rofl:
 

rejectedmom

New Member
KLMNO, It is my experience that at first judges are very willing to hear the parents and what they feel in in their child's best interest. It isn't until those things fail to bring forth the desired results that the judges switch over to following the PO's leanings. Judges know that our jails are overcrowded and they usually opt for treatment in the not so "hardened" juvie cases. PO will always get her time to say what she feels is appropriate consequences but judges will not always give her what she askes for. -RM
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
Exactly. And Exactly. ;)

Don't barf! Don't attack! Appear calm, determined..but sympathetic to the plight of the overworked and, no doubt, well intentioned idiots! :tongue:

It ain't easy, girl. You can do it and do it well. I've got confidence in you.

I don't know how many of you are old enough to remember an old deotorant commercial that was really great. The them "never let them see you sweat!". That, in a nutshell, is what all my verbose writing boils down to. :redface: Hugs. DDD
 

Wiped Out

Well-Known Member
Staff member
K,
I'm so happy about the medicaid-that is awesome news! Now I'm praying things go well Monday. Gentle hugs.
 

susiestar

Roll With It
I hope you are not stressing too much today. Try to keep yourself distracted so you won't overstress yourself.

Remember we are here with you and will be with you in court!
 

klmno

Active Member
Thanks, everyone!! I really need the support and pep talks right now!!

I was wondering, though. wouldn't the judge tend to listen to the GAL's opinion over the PO? (The GAL's here are licensed attny's so I don't know if maybe that's why the judge tended to listen to her more than anyone else before.) Especially when this is a case of doing what will rehabilitate difficult child moreso than protecting the community and the CA is ok with Residential Treatment Center (RTC), too? Isn't it going to look a little odd if PO is the only one in the room pushing for juvy?

I just got back from visiting difficult child. He's really eating up the time with "peers". I didn't realize how much he was wanting/needing that, but I'm not sure what I could have done about it. He wouldn't join a club or sports. He quit the only groups he'd ever joined on his own accord. His old friends had ostracized him. It seems to me that he's much more comfortable around kids in places like this because he knows they have issues, too. Never mind that I try to explain that all people, including kids at his regular school, have issues. I guess it's doing group therapy and KNOWING that these kids struggle through similar feelings, habits, etc.

Anyway, he has cut his arm until it's a mess. They used those strips of special medical tape to try to hold skin together but any worse and he's going to need stitches. From the wrist to the elbow of his left arm, you can hardly see any skin. He's started on the other arm now.

Before I left this morning, I faxed the GAL the letter I rec'd from Residential Treatment Center (RTC) saying they would accept difficult child. They just need the county team to sign off on it and give them the paperwork, including a reimbursement rate so they could bill medicaid. I wrote on the fax cover and asked GAL if judge approved or ordered this, could the GAL attend the county meeting because I wasn't so sure the county would approve it without her there. (Is that subtle enough?)

I'll be jumping on and off here the rest of today as I get some laundry done and prepare for tomorrow.

Oh, almost forgot- I do remember that commercial!! (That doesn't make me old does it?LOL!)
 
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klmno

Active Member
A couple of you snuck in on me...I want all of you to know that I did feel you with me last year when I had to testify and I was caught completely off guard with all I had to explain. It was amazing how feeling the "power of the board" made me feel so much stronger, like I wasn't alone, and that I had to stand up for my son and really, others who needed help from "the system", too, because the system fails so many.

HUGE thank you's for that being sent to all on this board!!

Oh- did I ever mention that even though the psychiatrist had requested difficult child to be transported Mon am (very early), the county was going to transport difficult child on Friday because it was going to be more convenient on them. Whe the psychiatrist heard that, he called the GAL and, about half hour later, they rec'd a new notification that this had changed- they will transport difficult child early tomorrow morning. I tend to think the GAL had the judge order it. I think that is good news- it would appear that means that the judge realizes there is a serious risk with difficult child and she's not letting typical Department of Juvenile Justice staff attitude ignore it.
 
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susiestar

Roll With It
I am glad the psychiatrist got right on top of the transportation issue. he sounds like a good guy. The GAL (who I know you had problems with at times) seems to have come around to see the rational side of things (your side!).

I am praying the judge rips the psychiatrist a new one for ignoring reality and then orders what difficult child needs - Residential Treatment Center (RTC). AT that point the school forum iwll help you get the school district to pay. They can walk you through the legalities of making them face this responsibility, like it or not.

We are all with you, tonight and tomorrow. Let us know after the hearing what happened.

Be sure to have that document with the various bizarre things the psychiatrist did/said that undermined you and contributed to this.

(((((hugs)))))
 

DDD

Well-Known Member
I'm rootin' for the GAL being a certifiable winner! In Florida the GALs are not attorneys just well screened volunteers who go through training and then represent "the best interests of the child". Personally I never had a Judge go against my recommendations but in one instance it was really a "hairy" case and my safety was in jeopardy. Wimps need not apply to be GALs.....;).

I think your son probably has an excellent support team with his Mom, his GAL and evidently a Judge who does care. Fingers crossed, my friend. DDD
 

klmno

Active Member
Thanks, Susie and DDD! OK, I have paperwork ready and am finishing laundry, then I have a decent dinner to finish cooking and eat.

Now, this is the part that comes to my mind as making me lose my cool, potentially: the PO is the one who has stood up in court, out of the blue, previously and said things like "well, I think the mother should be held accountable" (never mind that I didn't do anything wrong), "well, I don't know that" after I just said something to judge (and each time, the judge has found/seen proof that I was telling the truth), etc. When the PO does/says these things, it makes my blood boil. Before this last arraignment, I thought she was doing this to either try to get me in trouble instead of difficult child or because she was trying to say that she didn't have proof in her hand, so she could not take my word. But, I felt it implied to the judge and others that my word couldn't be taken.

Then, at this last arraignment, she did it again (she's done it EVERY time), but it was right after I had talked to her in hallway before court and she was trying to say that she hadn't known that difficult child had been hurting himself and that she wanted him in juvy because I could not supervise him. So, that blows the theory that she's trying to blame me because she's so sympathetic for difficult child that she wants me punished instead of him. And, it blows the theory that she was only trying to convey that as a PO, she needs proof in hand instead of just taking a parent's word- because I KNOW (and she admitted) that she had read that difficult child was self-harming, then in the next breath said again that she didn't know he was hurting himself.

Now, if she's still trying to justify this in her own mind that she just CANNOT believe a word I say, I don't know. But, what I'm leading to here (LOL!) is that this is where I feel sure that I show visible signs that I am livid with her. I did this at the arraignment when the judge asked about difficult child's previous competency evaluation and MST services and PO said things that implied I was lieing or couldn't be trusted. It infuriates me because I have not lied and have history for 25 years, plus, that I am a productive citizen who does not break the law and is doing everything I know for my son for 14+ years.

So, does anyone have any suggestions about how I can handle this part better? My brain tells me that if I can remain calm and cool, it will keep the focus on what she's saying and it might become more obvious who is the person causing a problem and not being objective. But, I find it difficult to remain calm. I find it offensive and in my heart, I blame her for getting so caught up in whatever her issue is that she failed to do her job for difficult child and now look where he is and SHE wants him in juvy. I want to strangle her. LOL!

OK, I will try to keep in mind that this is my opportunity to tell the judge what needs to be said to get difficult child the help he needs. So, I should not be concentrating on PO, as you ladies have reminded me. But I really do think I need to try to convey that if she's staying in our lives, it is a detriment (sp). I think she is toxic for us.
 
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Marguerite

Active Member
Did you ever do debating in school? Where you had to argue for a case you didn't necessarily agree with, and know the opposing team were in the same boat? If you can mentally detach in th same way and at least while you're standing up in court, keep reminding yourself that this is her doing her job regardless of what she personally believes... maybe it will help. That's why it can help (as I suggested earlier) to have some idea of why she is donig this. But since it isn't very apparent as to why, apart from perhaps protecting her own rear because of her own insecurities as to competence (everyone eventually gets promoted beyond their ability to cope, maybe she knows she's not good at her job and goes into attack mode before someone attacks her). If you can keep thinking to yourself, "It's just a debagte, she's just the person from the opposing team," maybe it will help you detach. The trouble is, she's supposed to be on YOUR team, or at least difficult child's.

Do you have the opportunity to politely speak up and say, "Excuse me, I feel I need to clarify - I ensured the PO got copies of my notes on this very topic, here is a copy of my letter describing self-harming behaviour, letter dated xx/xx/xx plus attached was report form psychiatrist also expressing concern as to difficult child's metnal health and self-harm. THis is a complex case, it's possible the PO has overlooked these notes in her files because I know they should be there."

Give her rope. Be openly generous in giving her a way out, although do make sure you're not being too generous with rope. Instead of saying, "maybe I forgot to tell her," even when you know you didn't, make it clear you've given her everything and perhaps she's just been too busy (ie lazy) or found the wording too technical (ie she's too dumb) or forgot (she's mentally not up to the job). Each "out" is there for her to take, but has a sting to it. That's the payoff for her feeling she needs to have an easy cop-out.

The main focus is difficult child. Frankly, what the PO thinks of you doesn't matter. In fact, the more she bags you out, while you just stand there and SHOW by your manner, your preparation, your record that she is very wrong, the more she condemns everything else she says.

You could also say, if she ever says again, "I think the mother should be held accountable," something like,
"If punishing me would help my son then please, do it. However, the issue here is not something I have done or not done, this is deeper and goes right to difficult child's mental health."

Sometimes seeming to initially agree, or even agreeing wholeheartedly, to the part of what she says that you DO agree with, can take the wind out of their sails. How then can they accuse you of being automatically oppositional? "She disagrees with everything I say, she's trying to undermine me," sounds like the way the PO is thinking (and probably telling other people). So when you agree with her, even if only in part, it shows that you are being more balanced, more considered, about all of this. And the people that really matter should pick up on this.

Have you read the thread on Watercooler about Octo-Mum? Take note of the sort of attitudes people are critical of this mother for. Think - what could Octo_mum do to turn around this criticism? If this criticism is unwarranted, how can she turn around public opinion?
Now make this your own - your name is blackened like Octo-Mum's, due to PO's blabbing about rubbish. So how do you behave, in order to simply demonstrate (instead of protesting loudly) that PO has been lying?
What you do is pretty much what you HAVE been doing - have all reports ready, be prepared, have your files sorted, have spare copies of all important letters ready, hand over paperwork as (preferably almost before) it's requested (try to anticipate). Stay quiet, stay calm, do not let them see you sweat, as someone else said. YOu can still show you're angry but in controlled ways. For example, when I get angry the volume of my voice drops, my pitch drops and my word rate drops. I will sometimes stand quietly waiting for others to recognise that I am waiting to say what needs to be said, but will not wait for long. I'm told that when I get REALLY angry, my eyes change colour. I am not the pounding fist on desk type of angry person, I'm more the quiet but intense whisperer. An intense whisper can carry just as far as a shout. And be far more chilling.

A really good word to use against ANY professional, is "inappropriate". It has specific meaning, usually associated with concepts such as unprofessional, sloppy, lazy, and a few other choice words. Don't over-use this, but it is a word that will make others sit up and take notice.

Go carefully. Seriously think aboutwhat the PO says and if at any time she says something that is CLEARLY outside her area of practice, well outside what she should be concernnig herself with, then go ahead and use that word.

Marg
 

susiestar

Roll With It
Marg has excellent advice. While you sit and follow what Marg says, to keep you from getting into an "outburst fight" with PO where you try to talk over each other (guaranteed to make you look bad in front of the judge and EXACTLY what PO wants) - remember - PO is a witch with a B. Visualize her as a female dog, and her extraneous arguing as barks.

But if you have that document with the date PO told you to let difficult child play M rated games, etc... all in bullets for the judge (and saying therapist X said this is not appropriate on date Z) you will be able to refute most anything she says.

You are smarter, prettier, more fun, and more interesting than PO can ever even HOPE to be. You are also more PREPARED for this.

So go and advocate for difficult child and politely kick some PO booty by letting her inappropriate manners (speaking out of turn in the courtroom, for one example) show the judge what a rude witch with a B she really is.

I'm rootin' for you! Just remember Marg's method for letting her shoot herself in the tush!
 
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