Update

[recoveringenabler]

Cedar, I was so happy to read your last post. It brought a big smile to my face........I'm thrilled that you are not feeling hurt anymore, you've been hurt enough, it's time for that to end. You've been suffering over things you can't control and others have taken advantage of that..........sigh.............I know...........I'm so glad that is over for you.

I so understand your husband's comment about "there was nothing real there to miss." Once I started emerging out of my family of origin's hold on me...............when I began seeing the TRUTH of it all..........what I had been so sad about was what I THOUGHT it was, what I wanted it to be, what I had not received...........what was actually there, the truth of that, was an illusion..............the reality was hard to take at first, hence the FOG, however, facing reality does free us.

I saw a program on TV last night where a wife was murdered by her husband. A forensic Psychologist was interviewed and asked, why would a woman stay with a man who has already tried to kill her......... had made threats which were obvious to everyone that he meant to harm her...........obvious to everyone but her. The Psychologist said, "repression of reality works well when facing the truth is so ugly and scary that you just refuse to see it." I thought of many of us here...............it's right in front of us, but we refuse to see it. Sigh.

We pulled that veil away Cedar and as ugly and creepy as the truth is, seeing the truth frees us from the hold of the lie.

Yes, I feel all the same kinds of things that you feel. I am surprised at times too. I feel unstuck in all areas. This did not just impact my relationship with my daughter, it impacted everything.

Along the way, in this two year period of BIG TIME DETACHMENT, I disconnected from two very close, old friends of mine...........patterns emerged which I had not fully been able to see, but once I did, I couldn't go back. My relationships at my work changed as I made different boundaries around myself. My relationship with my granddaughter is still evolving in a very different manner. I have an internal peace now, which I had no idea about previously. My responses to life in general are easier, calmer and freer. This has been a big deal for me Cedar, not only have I detached from my daughter, but that detachment has spilled over onto every part of my life. And, along with it, acceptance..........acceptance that goes deep too. My sense of gratitude is present in a way which has shifted the quality of my life. Like you, I've made some very difficult choices...........and those choices have brought me to a very different landscape now..........every day I see new things and feel new things.........

I understand about your anger being right there on the surface.........my take on that is that feelings are no longer repressed or held in or edited...........they are now free to be expressed in appropriate ways which we can trust to be healthy. It is very freeing for me to feel that way now.

When our perception changes, everything changes.

This is a beautiful and life changing gift you give yourself this Christmas Cedar...........and husband too...........I hope he is also feeling this way...........congratulations. Perhaps you and husband might find a way to celebrate this............really celebrate.........you are FREE.

Whatever happens with our kids will happen and we will deal with it, but not the old way........

I am very proud of you Cedar.............great job. Big smile here.

 

[DammitJanet]

One thing I have learned is anger is just fear that we cant admit.

Trust me, right now I am pretty much living in anger myself. Yesterday we were arguing about these stupid presents I bought and Tony asked me why on earth I did all this and I flat told him it was my way of dealing with stress and he said he didnt know why I could have stress. If anyone should be stressed it should be him because he had to work. I blew up and said that I had been stressed since the summer of 2011 and until the summer of 13, all of that could be laid on his shoulders. The stress of difficult child was not his fault but some of the reactions he has had..are his problems. So I hid in my room and bought tons of junk on eBay. Pretty much the whole time his brother was here, he got to get out of the house everyday either by working or doing one of his hobbies...fishing and hunting. Now he runs to his brother's whims when there are problems.

 

[Echolette]

I know what you mean by surface and deep anger. I too am less angry,less despairing deep in my soul, all night long and all day long. I do still have surprising surface anger...that is a reversal, I used to carry it deep in me and not show it. Now I feel OK or even well much or even most of the time.

My difficult child is still in jail. I did not post bail and won't. When he calls me it is clearly because he wants to know if I'll post bail, and because he hopes I can be a conduit to his girlfriend. Those are his only concerns. He doesn't care about talking with me, although he pretends to as soon as he hears I haven't And that is when the surface anger flashes...even in short conversations I can't be gently supportive or nonjudgemental. He worries that he just disappeared and his girlfriend must be scared and worried about him. I tell him that she knows where I live and has not contacted me to tell me he has been missing for 10 days, or to see if I know where he is. He worries that he can't reach her (no phone, no address....unless "under the bridge" is an address) and that she can't reach him (no phone, address forwarded to "jail" from "under the bridge"--haha, that was a joke). I tell him that to be a good partner you have to be a person who is reachable..have a place where you live, have a phone. That he disappeared off the street because he is a person who has chosen a life and path where that will predictably happen. I say it in a harsh and clear way. Because that is where my surface anger is. But it doesn't feel as bad or devouring as the old deep anger.

This is progress. and it is all a process.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

what I had been so sad about was what I THOUGHT it was, what I wanted it to be, what I had not received...........what was actually there, the truth of that, was an illusion.

*********************

A forensic Psychologist was interviewed and asked, why would a woman stay with a man who has already tried to kill her.....

The Psychologist said, "repression of reality works well when facing the truth is so ugly and scary that you just refuse to see it."

We pulled that veil away Cedar and as ugly and creepy as the truth is, seeing the truth frees us from the hold of the lie.

***************

Yes, I feel all the same kinds of things that you feel. I am surprised at times too. I feel unstuck in all areas. This did not just impact my relationship with my daughter, it impacted everything.

I have an internal peace now, which I had no idea about previously.

My responses to life in general are easier, calmer and freer. This has been a big deal for me Cedar, not only have I detached from my daughter, but that detachment has spilled over onto every part of my life. And, along with it, acceptance..........acceptance that goes deep too. My sense of gratitude is present in a way which has shifted the quality of my life.

***********************

I understand about your anger being right there on the surface.........my take on that is that feelings are no longer repressed or held in or edited.

It is very freeing for me to feel that way now.

When our perception changes, everything changes.

Whatever happens with our kids will happen and we will deal with it, but not the old way........

Re: Family of origin issues, Recovering. I think that before we had done enough healing work to alleviate the responsibility we felt for the outcome of every situation ~ not just family situations, but every situation ~ we did not take the truth at the heart of those dysfunctional family relationships seriously. And what we did take seriously, we tried to fix. I don't think we were bad or weak or willingly blind though, Recovering. I think we were just so certain we could create a better way for our families of origin through holding strong. As it turns out though, while we were holding strong, they were labeling us as people who could be treated badly and dependably manipulated through neediness ~ theirs, or ours.

I am quite P.O. about it, actually.

:O)

Freedom seems to have to do with not knowing how to respond, with understanding that calming everyone down is somehow disrespectful, patronizing. The pay off for my own game. Just sitting through it, now.

You are right too Recovering about trusting ourselves to acknowledge our own anger without being afraid of it. Poor husband has been taking a step or two back, as well. Know what I tell myself about that? That he will be healthier too, once I am healthier. We can both grow and change and that is such a good, good thing. But actually, I don't exactly seem to have a choice about that. All at once, I'm just accepting everything. If I don't like it? I emotionally walk away from it. A very strange, new place to be coming from. I always fix everything or at least, exhaust myself trying.

It is an amazing process.

Regarding difficult child daughter, who is coming to live with us for a time. I cannot believe all this is hitting the fan all at once like it is. Remember how we wondered about intent, purpose, and challenge, Recovering? Having successfully met one series of challenges, husband and I are immediately confronting another kind of challenge. I will make a separate post about that. Having successfully confronted your daughter Recovering, you too were immediately confronted with different kinds of challenges, each with the potential to be just as devastating, each just as clearly designed to test your newly developed healthier self. (I remember you posting about the successful resolution of the conflict of having had to continue to work beyond the time it felt right. You came through that beautifully. Now, the skin issues. Different aspects of self, challenged one immediately after the other.

I like that imagery Brene Brown gave us. Choosing to ride that edge of vulnerability, whatever the nature of the challenge or discomfort.

We are doing just fine, Recovering.

Painful as it was to get here, I too am finding myself "unstuck." That is a great description. And I too see it spilling into every area of my life.

The other thing that is happening is that I am aware that I am in a challenging situation as I go through it. I feel a little lost, am not so sure of how to respond, or am hearing myself respond in ways that just ring wrong.

Lately, I have become exquisitely aware of the difference between doing something for someone and doing something for someone to notice. What's happening is that all the times I have been irresponsible to the person with whom I should have been interacting because I was so busy dancing in the light of my own wonderfulness (or resentment) are coming to the surface. I am ashamed of those times, and I don't know what to do about that, except to try to be more responsible to the personal interaction, now.

And interestingly enough, people around me are beginning to comment or cause me to think about those very issues.

It's interesting and...you know? Very disturbing and enjoyable. I like to think about you out there, riding that edge, too.

How cool is that, Recovering.

Cedar

 

[in a daze]

This was shared with with us at a NAMI meeting and I found it very powerful. I read it often to help keep myself from fixing things in my difficult child's life.

I copied this! Thanks Kathy...

 

[recoveringenabler]

I think we were just so certain we could create a better way for our families of origin through holding strong. As it turns out though, while we were holding strong, they were labeling us as people who could be treated badly and dependably manipulated through neediness ~ theirs, or ours.

I am quite P.O. about it, actually.

Freedom seems to have to do with not knowing how to respond, with understanding that calming everyone down is somehow disrespectful, patronizing. The pay off for my own game. Just sitting through it, now.

All at once, I'm just accepting everything. If I don't like it? I emotionally walk away from it. A very strange, new place to be coming from. I always fix everything or at least, exhaust myself trying.

It is an amazing process.

Regarding difficult child daughter, who is coming to live with us for a time. I cannot believe all this is hitting the fan all at once like it is. Remember how we wondered about intent, purpose, and challenge, Recovering? Having successfully met one series of challenges, husband and I are immediately confronting another kind of challenge. I will make a separate post about that.

We are doing just fine, Recovering.

Painful as it was to get here, I too am finding myself "unstuck." That is a great description. And I too see it spilling into every area of my life.

The other thing that is happening is that I am aware that I am in a challenging situation as I go through it. I feel a little lost, am not so sure of how to respond, or am hearing myself respond in ways that just ring wrong.

Lately, I have become exquisitely aware of the difference between doing something for someone and doing something for someone to notice. What's happening is that all the times I have been irresponsible to the person with whom I should have been interacting because I was so busy dancing in the light of my own wonderfulness (or resentment) are coming to the surface. I am ashamed of those times, and I don't know what to do about that, except to try to be more responsible to the personal interaction, now.

And interestingly enough, people around me are beginning to comment or cause me to think about those very issues.

It's interesting and...you know? Very disturbing and enjoyable. I like to think about you out there, riding that edge, too.

How cool is that, Recovering.
***************************************************************
It is very cool Cedar! Good description about riding the edge, it is exhilarating and scary at the same time.

Buddha said, "the only difference between fear and excitement is breath." Good to remember to breathe deeply.

John Lily said, when we let go of control and live in uncertainty we have the deepest sense of aliveness ..........living life at point blank range................ALIVE!

Yes, while we were "holding strong" we were in essence unaware of the manipulators surrounding us.....the flip side of being the rescuer, being the blind prey.

Freedom is what I have been seeking and in reality................ it was responding from the truth of me......the ability to respond authentically.

There is a lot of freedom in not fixing everything and letting the messy pieces fall wherever they fall.

Unstuck beats the h*ll out of stuck.

If we're aware of it as it's happening, we can change our response. You are right about that and it is empowering too.

Your difficult child coming to live with you now is an opportunity for you to practice your new found boundaries. You and husband might put together a contract, made of what it is you want and what it is you don't want and what she has to do and what your expectations are and clearly, what the consequences are if she does not abide by YOUR rules. There should be an end date, clearly set before hand. You are doing her a kindness, you make the rules, not her. All the boundaries we did not set for them when they were young have to be set now. That is what I had to do with my daughter too, retrain her to treat me with respect, to honor me, to appreciate me, to stop thinking she could in ANY way use or manipulate me. Do not tolerate any bad behavior AT ALL.

I have "danced in the light of my own wonderfulness" too Cedar............great line by the way. Hey, it's all we had to go on, if we are great rescuers and savers we have great value..............we forgot we have value without doing any of that..........that was how we were trained, so we can let it go now...........feel compassion for the little girls who thought that up..............and let it go.........

I am curious as to what your next set of challenges are? Is it related to your daughter living with you, your sister, or all of it?

You have your warrior suit on now Cedar, no more "mush head" you have been initiated in to the TRUTH and one cannot spring back to denial now, you know too much, you've seen the Wizard behind the screen and you can't see your daughter or your son as the helpless, frightened little children anymore.............they are grown up people who've learned to manipulate to continue their entitled lifestyle.

I want to be straight and honest now, no more making nice, no more saving anyone, no more editing .........that straight shot is very liberating, very real, and feels very good. I know you feel that too.............

I like the idea of riding the edge with you too Cedar...............it's one helluva ride!!!!!

 

[DammitJanet]

You guys have such great advice and insight. I know I have confused difficult child at this point because I am not falling for his BS anymore. I simply dont have the time or patience for it. I am getting rather irritated when he tries to pull me into his problems or even wants now. Yesterday he called me wanting me to help him get Dish Network. They needed someone to sign plus give them my debit card number. He must think Im dumb. Number one, I ended up owing Dish one month when I cancelled them because they didnt cancel it when I called and I never knew it but second, I would never put his bills under my name...lol. I told him to call Time Warner, they are having a sale.

 

[Echolette]

I think we were just so certain we could create a better way for our families of origin through holding strong. As it turns out though, while we were holding strong, they were labeling us as people who could be treated badly and dependably manipulated through neediness ~ theirs, or ours.

I am quite P.O. about it, actually.

Freedom seems to have to do with not knowing how to respond, with understanding that calming everyone down is somehow disrespectful, patronizing. The pay off for my own game. Just sitting through it, now.

All at once, I'm just accepting everything. If I don't like it? I emotionally walk away from it. A very strange, new place to be coming from. I always fix everything or at least, exhaust myself trying.

It is an amazing process.

Regarding difficult child daughter, who is coming to live with us for a time. I cannot believe all this is hitting the fan all at once like it is. Remember how we wondered about intent, purpose, and challenge, Recovering? Having successfully met one series of challenges, husband and I are immediately confronting another kind of challenge. I will make a separate post about that.

We are doing just fine, Recovering.

Painful as it was to get here, I too am finding myself "unstuck." That is a great description. And I too see it spilling into every area of my life.

The other thing that is happening is that I am aware that I am in a challenging situation as I go through it. I feel a little lost, am not so sure of how to respond, or am hearing myself respond in ways that just ring wrong.

Lately, I have become exquisitely aware of the difference between doing something for someone and doing something for someone to notice. What's happening is that all the times I have been irresponsible to the person with whom I should have been interacting because I was so busy dancing in the light of my own wonderfulness (or resentment) are coming to the surface. I am ashamed of those times, and I don't know what to do about that, except to try to be more responsible to the personal interaction, now.

And interestingly enough, people around me are beginning to comment or cause me to think about those very issues.

It's interesting and...you know? Very disturbing and enjoyable. I like to think about you out there, riding that edge, too.

How cool is that, Recovering.
***************************************************************
It is very cool Cedar! Good description about riding the edge, it is exhilarating and scary at the same time.

Buddha said, "the only difference between fear and excitement is breath." Good to remember to breathe deeply.

John Lily said, when we let go of control and live in uncertainty we have the deepest sense of aliveness ..........living life at point blank range................ALIVE!

Yes, while we were "holding strong" we were in essence unaware of the manipulators surrounding us.....the flip side of being the rescuer, being the blind prey.

Freedom is what I have been seeking and in reality................ it was responding from the truth of me......the ability to respond authentically.

There is a lot of freedom in not fixing everything and letting the messy pieces fall wherever they fall.

Unstuck beats the h*ll out of stuck.

If we're aware of it as it's happening, we can change our response. You are right about that and it is empowering too.

Your difficult child coming to live with you now is an opportunity for you to practice your new found boundaries. You and husband might put together a contract, made of what it is you want and what it is you don't want and what she has to do and what your expectations are and clearly, what the consequences are if she does not abide by YOUR rules. There should be an end date, clearly set before hand. You are doing her a kindness, you make the rules, not her. All the boundaries we did not set for them when they were young have to be set now. That is what I had to do with my daughter too, retrain her to treat me with respect, to honor me, to appreciate me, to stop thinking she could in ANY way use or manipulate me. Do not tolerate any bad behavior AT ALL.

I have "danced in the light of my own wonderfulness" too Cedar............great line by the way. Hey, it's all we had to go on, if we are great rescuers and savers we have great value..............we forgot we have value without doing any of that..........that was how we were trained, so we can let it go now...........feel compassion for the little girls who thought that up..............and let it go.........

I am curious as to what your next set of challenges are? Is it related to your daughter living with you, your sister, or all of it?

You have your warrior suit on now Cedar, no more "mush head" you have been initiated in to the TRUTH and one cannot spring back to denial now, you know too much, you've seen the Wizard behind the screen and you can't see your daughter or your son as the helpless, frightened little children anymore.............they are grown up people who've learned to manipulate to continue their entitled lifestyle.

I want to be straight and honest now, no more making nice, no more saving anyone, no more editing .........that straight shot is very liberating, very real, and feels very good. I know you feel that too.............

I like the idea of riding the edge with you too Cedar...............it's one helluva ride!!!!!

Cedar, Recovering,

I am ready to ride along with you two too. It took my difficult child turning 18 and slipping out of my control, but I can see now how much I too, manipulated and controlled, to an unnecessary and toxic degree...not only my difficult child but my ex-husband and PCs. I thought they were all incompetent and they would fall apart if I didn't control everything for them (I know...I've read codependent no more too!). It has been a relief to them and to me to recognize that, and 90% of it stopped in the recognizing. Dancing in the light of my own wonderfulness...I love that. It was so wrong, but so comforting for me.

There is the other related category of doing something for some one that they didn't ask for and didn't really want or need and somehow expecting them to appreciate it or be grateful...and eventually wearing oneself out by doing those unasked for tasks. It is robotic, actions for the sake of actions. to be seen as giving "doing something for some one to notice", and is just a burden to those around you.

My ex used to give me gifts that had nothing to do with who I was. They were often a little expensive (we were not big VACATION AND JEWELRY people, so not extravagant), but just off step with who I was or what I would like. Sometimes I would later give or throw them away , and he would be like "but I gave that to you". It used to make me smoulder...you gave them to ME? really? who am I? I don't think you know.

So through that experience I can connect with how people around me feel when I do do do when really they want to lead their own lives, at their own pace, and make their own mistakes. I'm better at letting them do that now. Even my difficult child. It is a heady , freeing feeling. I'm in for the ride.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I am not falling for his BS anymore. I simply dont have the time or patience for it. I am getting rather irritated when he tries to pull me into his problems or even wants now.

Good for us, Janet! It feels so strange to see things differently than we have. You know what they say in all the gangster movies: "Stick wit' me kid, and we'll come outta this smellin' like roses."

Cedar

Oh, man. Show off and suffer, so they say. I suppose I will have to eat these words, as I go through whatever is coming next with difficult child daughter.

Ew.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Cedar, Recovering,

I thought they were all incompetent and they would fall apart if I didn't control everything

90% of it stopped in the recognizing.

There is the other related category of doing something for some one that they didn't ask for and didn't really want or need and somehow expecting them to appreciate it or be grateful...

and is just a burden to those around you.

So through that experience I can connect with how people around me feel when I do do do when really they want to lead their own lives, at their own pace, and make their own mistakes. I'm better at letting them do that now. Even my difficult child. It is a heady , freeing feeling. I'm in for the ride.

Echolette, before you came to us here, we had a thread going about what it feels like to be the parent of a difficult child who was, for the moment, doing well ~ or at least was not in the midst of a crisis. The imagery we came up with?

JAWS

Remember, when the Sheriff, the scientist, and the fisherman are putting along? The sun is out, the water is beautiful, and they think they are so well prepared and so absolutely in control that nothing can possibly go wrong. All at once, Jaws slices through the water, bumps into the boat, whatever.

And the caption is: "We're going to need a bigger boat."

It was just so funny to us, Echolette. That imagery seemed to describe everything we were feeling regarding our difficult children.

Remember that time the scientist was diving on that wreck, poking around with a little arrogance, the way scientists and those who know everything already always do...and BOOM!

Really spooky dead body.

And the scientist screams underwater and shoots to the surface, his eyes big as tea cups.

That is just what I feel like, going through this series of admissions about myself and my life. There are so many beautiful things all around me. But every time I think I have a handle on things and get a little self congratulatory?

BOOM!

Really spooky dead body.

:O)

Welcome aboard! Thank heaven we have one another . Remember what it was like, when we were alone with it?

Cedar

 

[recoveringenabler]

I forgot about that Cedar.............HA! Well, in keeping with the JAWS theme, perhaps, in a short time, as in the movie, we weary warriors will be floating to shore on a small piece of wood having just lived through the biggest battle of our lives...........exhausted, battered, a little torn up.............. but ALIVE ................NO MORE spooky dead bodies!!!

 

[recoveringenabler]

How are you doing Cedar?

Thinking about you.........

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Merry, merry Christmas to everyone here. This, as it turns out, is our season of healing. For each of us, the challenges (even for you, Echolette, who had already come so far before joining us) are different, deeper, entered into with intent, now.

Janet, I reread your post about the Christmas gifts you'd ordered. There are two ways to see that, I think. One way is as you've described it ~ a stress reaction. The other way, and the way I think is really true...is that you did what you did celebrating life, celebrating the self you are and the self you are creating, celebrating that bright, elusive thread of family and destiny.

Well, so that would be love, Janet. You are the matriarch, and you did what you did out of love, as is your right and your responsibility.

How sad would it be if your hearth and heart were cold and filled with ashes?

Oh, I am being dramatic this morning! But there is so much to celebrate, to truly, deeply celebrate, for all of us. I don't want to suffer instead of celebrate, anymore. I can't change the bad things, but I can change the echoes. Instead of letting them shake my life apart, I can recognize that an echo comes from something that has already happened.

It is what it is.

But there is life, a whole beautiful life, going on at the same time.

In a way, this process has taught me to sit quietly and see in a new way. I kept my brain so busy with horror thoughts, before, it seems like. Here is another strangeness: So, a man who lives down the street from us here took in a feral cat. She had kittens. He fell into loving responsibility with the cat and kittens. There is another woman here who traps, spays, and releases feral cats. Someone connected him with her. The cats have all been altered, had their shots, and etc. Miracle for the cats and for the man who accidentally fell in love with them, right? Here is the other miracle: So, come Thanksgiving, the man needs to leave the cats so he can visit family. He contacts the cat lady. She can't do it, but gives him the name of someone who can go there and feed the mother and two kittens twice daily. Then? She needs to go out of town, too. Someone gives her my name. I agree to do it, feeling quite healthy about myself and my generosity and etc.

Christmas comes, and the man asks me to do it, again.

I am.

In my generous aint-I-something spirit, I have been sitting with the still feral cats while they eat, to keep them interacting with humans so the man will be able to work with, and eventually, bring them in, when he comes home.

Here is the miracle.

Twenty minutes of total peace, devoted to nothing but cherishing someone else's wild cats. Once in the morning. Once at dusk.

A time out of time.

Miracles, everywhere you look, once you look. Very complex.

:O)

Cedar