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<blockquote data-quote="Copabanana" data-source="post: 753955" data-attributes="member: 18958"><p>This is very like with my son who has for the past few years been espousing beliefs that I find disturbing and noxious: Illuminati, conspiracy theories, etc. My position is that it's his right to hold them and talk about them, but I choose to not hear them around me. More or less, he observes this limit. But he does not engage in behaviors whereby he may be invoking forces or manipulating things, which to me, is going a step farther.</p><p></p><p>She's right. Her beliefs are hers. But. <u>Your home is yours</u>. If she chooses to get into a power match with you, as she is doing, she is free to go, and you are free to insist she does. This is about power. She is head to head with you. There is empowered and there is a power grab. You are rightfully stepping into your power as a woman in your home. She seems to find this intolerable. The rightful and necessary thing is that she step into her own empowerment in her own life.</p><p></p><p>You're right. Power and dependency don't go together. It's a laugh that these kids feel powerful riding around on our backs.</p><p></p><p>It's tough. I am in the same position. My son (still) lacks the skills to manage his life on his own. He throws his power around, too. And I am torn too. Wanting to be his mother but not wanting to be governed by him.</p><p></p><p>He, having to face that he can't dominate, while he depends upon me for basic things. Me, having to face the costs of the constant conflict, the constant challenging, bucking, disrespect, borderline aggression. Feeling between the devil and the deep blue sea. And choosing for me.</p><p></p><p>I think you're doing the right thing, however painful. I would get those candles out of there NOW. I think the doorknob is exactly the right thing, and if she pushes more about this altar/witch stuff, take off the door, until she moves out of the house. This is a bridge too far.</p><p></p><p>She has power here. But she needs to recognize that her power position is over herself, leaving the household, if she can't or won't take authority or to recognize that she cannot be dominant and disrespectful in her parents' home, and back down and curb herself. It seems that she does not see this, or want to.</p><p></p><p>I know how long I have been at it with my son. So, I recognize how you may be pulled in different directions by your feelings. However, from an observer's point of view, this girl needs to be out. She has gone way, way too far. This is way beyond the therapist. The therapist is a symptom. The therapist is annoying but irrelevant.</p><p></p><p>The specifics of your daughter's behavior, to me, are not the issue. Her lying, her disrespect. Her insolence. The fact that you feel she's withdrawn her love. The issue, to me, is power. If you look at it this way, your interests and hers are complementary.</p><p></p><p>You seek to step into the center of yourself, your life, your home. She is seeking the same thing. Except it seems you are each seeking power in the same space, the same household. And she is bucking you to be supreme. Not just over her, but over the house rules, and over your conduct. (Your son too seems confused about authority, and how has the right to check who.)</p><p></p><p>There comes a time in our society when adult children have to empower themselves in separate households, in separate lives. There is typically overlap, with visits, relationships, reciprocity, cooperation. And of course, there are cultures where this does not happen, where generations co-exist living within a nuclear home. How they do this, I'm not clear. But I think it has to do with culture. Culture helps. In US Western culture, culture only seems to encourage young people towards individualism, not cooperation.</p><p></p><p>When adult children refuse to recognize reciprocity, cooperation, and respect, and will not collaborate, boundaries need be more defined, and it's hard, let alone impossible, for children and parents to cohabit or even co-exist.</p><p></p><p>Your daughter is crying out to be powerful in her own life. Let her. This will mean she must move out.</p><p></p><p>Right now she experiences her own power as power over you, as winning over you, as defiance. She is not recognizing that power comes from something else. Efficacy, self-control, competency, personal authority, personal responsibility. That is something she will learn. With independence. Personally, I think she needs to leave. In your house, I fear this will only escalate.</p><p></p><p>With my own son he left many times before the glimmer entered his consciousness of his need to surrender to my rules. I am not saying your daughter can't return at some point, if she comes to recognize that <u>she needs to rein herself in</u>. I see no sign of that recognition, now. I think you will be the one who has to come to that place, the awareness that this can't continue and she is showing no sign of wanting to control it. She is amping up.</p><p></p><p>I am sorry it's come to this. It seems that sometimes it has to.</p><p></p><p>I forgot to wish all of you Happy Thanksgiving!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Copabanana, post: 753955, member: 18958"] This is very like with my son who has for the past few years been espousing beliefs that I find disturbing and noxious: Illuminati, conspiracy theories, etc. My position is that it's his right to hold them and talk about them, but I choose to not hear them around me. More or less, he observes this limit. But he does not engage in behaviors whereby he may be invoking forces or manipulating things, which to me, is going a step farther. She's right. Her beliefs are hers. But. [U]Your home is yours[/U]. If she chooses to get into a power match with you, as she is doing, she is free to go, and you are free to insist she does. This is about power. She is head to head with you. There is empowered and there is a power grab. You are rightfully stepping into your power as a woman in your home. She seems to find this intolerable. The rightful and necessary thing is that she step into her own empowerment in her own life. You're right. Power and dependency don't go together. It's a laugh that these kids feel powerful riding around on our backs. It's tough. I am in the same position. My son (still) lacks the skills to manage his life on his own. He throws his power around, too. And I am torn too. Wanting to be his mother but not wanting to be governed by him. He, having to face that he can't dominate, while he depends upon me for basic things. Me, having to face the costs of the constant conflict, the constant challenging, bucking, disrespect, borderline aggression. Feeling between the devil and the deep blue sea. And choosing for me. I think you're doing the right thing, however painful. I would get those candles out of there NOW. I think the doorknob is exactly the right thing, and if she pushes more about this altar/witch stuff, take off the door, until she moves out of the house. This is a bridge too far. She has power here. But she needs to recognize that her power position is over herself, leaving the household, if she can't or won't take authority or to recognize that she cannot be dominant and disrespectful in her parents' home, and back down and curb herself. It seems that she does not see this, or want to. I know how long I have been at it with my son. So, I recognize how you may be pulled in different directions by your feelings. However, from an observer's point of view, this girl needs to be out. She has gone way, way too far. This is way beyond the therapist. The therapist is a symptom. The therapist is annoying but irrelevant. The specifics of your daughter's behavior, to me, are not the issue. Her lying, her disrespect. Her insolence. The fact that you feel she's withdrawn her love. The issue, to me, is power. If you look at it this way, your interests and hers are complementary. You seek to step into the center of yourself, your life, your home. She is seeking the same thing. Except it seems you are each seeking power in the same space, the same household. And she is bucking you to be supreme. Not just over her, but over the house rules, and over your conduct. (Your son too seems confused about authority, and how has the right to check who.) There comes a time in our society when adult children have to empower themselves in separate households, in separate lives. There is typically overlap, with visits, relationships, reciprocity, cooperation. And of course, there are cultures where this does not happen, where generations co-exist living within a nuclear home. How they do this, I'm not clear. But I think it has to do with culture. Culture helps. In US Western culture, culture only seems to encourage young people towards individualism, not cooperation. When adult children refuse to recognize reciprocity, cooperation, and respect, and will not collaborate, boundaries need be more defined, and it's hard, let alone impossible, for children and parents to cohabit or even co-exist. Your daughter is crying out to be powerful in her own life. Let her. This will mean she must move out. Right now she experiences her own power as power over you, as winning over you, as defiance. She is not recognizing that power comes from something else. Efficacy, self-control, competency, personal authority, personal responsibility. That is something she will learn. With independence. Personally, I think she needs to leave. In your house, I fear this will only escalate. With my own son he left many times before the glimmer entered his consciousness of his need to surrender to my rules. I am not saying your daughter can't return at some point, if she comes to recognize that [U]she needs to rein herself in[/U]. I see no sign of that recognition, now. I think you will be the one who has to come to that place, the awareness that this can't continue and she is showing no sign of wanting to control it. She is amping up. I am sorry it's come to this. It seems that sometimes it has to. I forgot to wish all of you Happy Thanksgiving! [/QUOTE]
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