Very Upset

[witzend]

The Holidays are coming. Need I say more? Several times since last winter, L has tried to impose her ideas of how to fix my relationship with my family upon me. I tell her I respect her right to her relationship with them, but I don't want one with them. Unfortunately, I always fall for the "why". Then it digresses into a screaming match.

husband and I decided with our therapist that if I did not want this to happen again, that I needed to tell her I wouldn't tolerate it again and since my basic respect for her had been lost, she needed to understand that it was an ultimatum that it was none of her business and she couldn't try to dictate my relationship with my family to me anymore.

So, husband, L, her dad and I went to dinner last night. I told her that there were only two ways we could deal with my family between us. One, that I could ask how they were, and she could reply without trying to "fix" the relationship, or two, we could never talk to each other about them again. Her reply was "I won't stop trying to change you because you're untrustworthy because you won't make up with them." It went on for two hours. I broke into tears twice. Even her dad tried to explain to her that all I was trying to do was to allow her to have her own relationship with my family and ask her to do the same for me. They're not interdependent upon each other.

It got nowhere. We got it around to where we could gracefully leave the table without tearing up the restaurant. I got home and I got a text from her. "I love u. I would like to try to make a fresh start." Now, mind you, L's fresh starts always involve whoever has the power starting fresh from their position of power and whoever is being bullied maintaining their position as underdog.

I told her that the time to start fresh was last night at dinner when I pleaded with her to do so, but instead she chose to be a bully. I told her if she felt she was anything other than a bully she was not seeing things as they really were and needed to get help.

 

[DammitJanet]

Good lord. Im sorry Witz. I dont think you are being a bit unreasonable in asking her to allow you to not be bullied. It really isnt her job to try to fix things. You have stated your case and now its time for her to accept your decision. You are her mother...not her child.

I hope she gets over herself.

 

[meowbunny]

Why is this so important to her? Is your family manipulating her? I remember how ugly it got last year. She's old enough to have seen the hurt it caused, so why is she still pushing?

I'm sorry she's putting you through this again and again. You're being awfully big about all of this. Personally, I'd tell her that the ball's in her court -- she needs to accept the terms you offered. They were extremely reasonable and she should be adult enough to understand that not every family has great relations and you certainly have good reasons to stay away from yours.

HUGS

 

[Shari]

Kudos to you for the attempt. Kudos for having her dad involved, too.

Ya tried.

What is this girl's motivation? Does she have an intense need to "fix" things? Is she a perfectionist? Is she just evil spirited? What on earth drives this child to push this issue so much?

Hugs. You tried.

 

[1905]

It sounds like she's liking the turmoil, I'm sorry you had to endure 2 hours of that, at a restaurant no less. I've been know to say, " the conversation is finished." when I could see nothing productive was happpening. She said you are "untrustworthy" for not making up with them?? Keep this topic off limits, you can't reason with her, you've tried. (((hugs)))-Alyssa

 

[katya02]

I'm sorry, witz. What an awful evening to sit through, and in public no less. L is an adult and she needs to understand that 'fixing' other people and relationships is not her prerogative. And insisting on trying is intrusive and disrespectful. Good for you for standing firm and not allowing yourself to be bullied into something that would be harmful for you. {{{hugs}}}

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

Witz, I am so sorry. I thought you handled it well, by having a dinner so far in advance of the holidays. Probably the best thing you could have done.

My heart breaks for your heart. I am sorry that it is going this way.

Hugs

 

[witzend]

Thanks, all. I'm still very upset. Yes, they manipulate her. Yes, she has a problem with needing to be superior to me. She gave me an ultimatum that unless I got into my parent's good graces that I was not trustworthy enough to have a relationship with. Give an impossible ultimatum, you get the only logical outcome, I guess. If she wants to change her mind, she'll let me know.

 

[Suz]

She gave me an ultimatum that unless I got into my parent's good graces that I was not trustworthy enough to have a relationship with.

What on earth does TRUST have to do with any of this? What a dumb correlation she's trying to make. Apples and oranges. sheesh.

I'm sorry, Witz. When Rob would perseverate on a subject I'd just shut him out completely and not respond or walk away. Walking away is difficult at a restaurant, but shutting out or changing the subject would be your only alternatives. It's obvious that trying to reason with her on this subject is impossible.

Suz

 

[everywoman]

This is one time I would have gotten up and calmly walked away. Your relationship with your family is yours. You own it. Pick up Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud and send her a copy in the mail. She needs to read it!

 

[Hound dog]

Witz

(((hugs)))

Don't know what to say. Does sound like she's being manipulated with that whole Trust issue, which has nothing to do with it.

We have sort of the opposite occuring here. The rest of us are fine with K and the kids. husband is being an arse about it. Fine. If that's the way he feels, so be it. If he asks I give him news, if he doesn't I keep my mouth shut. K asked about him again in an email tonight. I told her I wasn't making excuses, and told her like it was. husband is an odd ball though. Sometimes I think he just likes being an SOB. And I added for her not to go feeling horrible about it. He's that way to all the kids.

Stand your ground. Hopefully in her own time she'll begin to see the light, or at least mature enough to figure out that your relationship with your family is none of her business.

(((hugs)))

 

[hearts and roses]

{{Witz}} What a pita she is. I cannot believe her logic, manipulations and skewed version of things. Like someone else said - your relationship with your family is yours and yours alone. Hers belongs to her and yours belongs to you. Good for you for handling things so well. I hope you're able to find peace in your heart and continue with resolve. Hugs~

 

[witzend]

Well, I wish I could say that I was handling this with maturity and grace. I mean, I am, but I'm not. I did not go and buy myself a pack of cigarettes. I haven't smoked in 15 years. I know it's totally self destructive, but dang I want to go pick up a pack of smokes and tell them to all F-off because it was going to make me feel better right now, and darn (not darn) the consequences because nothing feels worse than right now! But I didn't.

I did pour myself the fullest glass of wine I have ever poured in my life. I stopped there because it was already open and that's all that was in the bottle. I think I may open another. I'll pour smaller glasses, but I'm not guaranteeing how many I'll fill or drink. Sometimes making the best of your life just ***** when the people that should care don't.

But, I am also putting the hardware on my kitchen cabinet doors. Luckily the holes are already there and I can't mess it up too much in a drunken stupor. And it gives me something that I have to get my act together and finish if not tomorrow, some day soon. I may set up a dinner for Saturday with friends which will mean that I have to sober up and take care of my house which smells of cats even though we have dogs. Go figure... Nothing in my life makes sense.

There is an overwhelming desire to self destruct. Get a pack of smokes, slam doors, yell at anyone who can't get away from me, tie on a drunk, skip doing my homework in class that I have to do, you name it. I may be halfway to three sheets to the wind, but I have to tell you, being a hero, being a warrior mom, is all about not giving in to all the selfishness that is tying one on and making everyone around you miserable because someone made you miserable. (Just quietly tie one on, if you have to. You'll regret it soon enough.) It doesn't mean it ever gets easy to let go. Life just HOOVERS (Suz that's for you) sometimes. And then there is something beautiful that brings you back to a better reality. Too bad it's autumn and there aren't many flowers or birds or things outside my window to jump in my face and say "Look at how wonderful I am and I'm sharing myself with you!" I guess I will have to sober up and go looking for it. Tomorrow in the daylight.

 

[flutterbee]

Witz, I'm so sorry.

(((hugs)))

 

[trinityroyal]

Witz, I am so very sorry that you're having to endure this.
You're right that it hurts like no other pain imaginable when the people that should care don't. My heart hurts for you.

Trinity

 

[KTMom91]

Witz, I'm so sorry she's putting you through all this. I admire you for clearly stating your case; too bad she chose not to listen. Many, many hugs.

 

[Star*]

Why did you give her a CHOICE?

Tell her - there will be no discussing this PERIOD.

Fini.

I just can't see where ANy discussion of your family is helpful or hopeful for you. Tell her NO, and leave it at that.

Enjoy your Christmas this year -

Leave your former family out of your mind and tell L if she persists - she can also get left out - you've had WAY too much Enough is enough.

Put the ball back in her court -

 

[witzend]

Not to worry, Star. L no longer is under the misunderstanding that ultimatums get you what you want. I didn't think "How is my mom?" was really a horrid question. My offer was that she could say "She's fine" or whatever she is - OR I wouldn't ask if she couldn't just plain answer the question "How is my mom?"

Her response was an ultimatum that I either make up with my family (huh? That's not on ANYONE's table!) or I was too untrustworthy for her to have a relationship.

Bingo bango bongo! She wins the door prize! I'm not (have no way of) making up with my family, so I'm not trustworthy enough for a relationship. That's the difference between being 25 and issuing an ultimatum to a battle scarred old witch who doesn't offer to do what she knows is impossible, and being 47 and knowing that both parts of your ultimatum have to be something that can actually be done if you don't want the other one to tell you to take your offer and shove it where the sun don't shine.

 

[donna723]

Witz, if you need a few more hugs, I've got 'em!

Maybe I'm missing something here but I'm not following her logic at all. How does your refusing to make up with your family make you 'untrustworthy'? That doesn't even make sense! And I don't blame you a bit! You're an adult and it's your decision to make and nobody knows the situation better than you do. I'd be telling her too, it's NOT open to discussion - period! Don't allow her to guilt-trip you! Obviously she's getting to you or you wouldn't be having the reaction that you are! Please don't allow her to have that power over you!

 

[witzend]

Her thinking is really twisted. I mean, I understand it, but it's unrealistic and illogical. Here it is, as I see it. But, you have to bear in mind that if her lips are moving, she's lying...

She thinks family is the most important thing in the world.

Even if your family doesn't like what you are you should be an active part of the family.

Since I won't be an active part of a family that won't allow me in their homes (or even in the same supermarket), she can't trust that I won't abandon her.

In her twisted way, I understand what she is saying. But, it's an impossible ultimatum, so she'll have to live with the consequences of it. I hope that she will reconsider at some point.