Was feeling hopeful and excited...until the guilt snuck back in.

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by HowMuchLonger, Mar 22, 2011.

  1. HowMuchLonger

    HowMuchLonger New Member

    Do you guys know people, or hear conversations around you about the "big pharma conspiracies"...stealing our money and zombifying our children with drugs!!

    Whenever I hear those statements I can't help but think...well where the hell do I sign up for some of these zombified kids, cause I can't handle my difficult child(s) anymore!

    Anyhow, after a rough few weeks with difficult child 2..another few physical incidents that I'm so entirely NOT proud of how I handled, and a few that I feel pretty good about in the end, we were able to get in to see difficult child 2's pediatrician. The end result was an ODD diagnosis added to the ADHD, a raising of the Adderall dosage, and now adding risperidone into the mix.

    As she was explaining everything to me in regards to ODD and how the risperidone works/interacts with ADHD medications I totally zoned out....all I could think of was YAY..maybe I'll finally get to see one of those zombified kids I hear so much about!! I was in a great mood all the way home, running numbers in my head to make sure I could fill both scripts today.

    Got home..had a few minutes to regroup....and realized how absolutely horrid that line of thinking is...how selfish, disgusting and bordering on insane my thoughts were. How did it get to this...I used to be a pain in the butt when i heard people even giving their kids antibiotics for anything short of the plague...and now here I am jubilantly celebrating a drug cocktail that I really truly don't have a clue about, and don't really even care what the side effects might be as long as I can have just ONE full week of peace and quiet and not feel like i'm in some warped abusive relationship.

    Then the niggling turning stomach returned, the hot flashes...something another poster referred to...almost a short term memory loss...like not being able to come up with the right word even though it's right THERE on my tongue (it took me 20 mins to type antibiotics above...I KNEW it was something that started with an A...abolish? no....absence? no....absolute??? WTF is going on with my head?? that sort of "self arguement playing out). I burned dinner and easy child ended up late for night school and I just feel like an airhead..nothing makes sense...everything is disorganized and I can't stay focused (is ADHD contagious?!)

    So, I just needed to get it off my chest that I was cheering for a possible zombified child in my future. I've had to stop speaking to my family and friends about difficult child 2 because despite their "well meaning" intentions they load up far more guilt on me than difficult child does.

    On a happier note, we finally got a referral to the children's hospital here. I was warned it takes quite a while for the first intake appointment, but once "in" we would have access to any and all specialists (dev peds, pediatrician. neuro, pediatrician psychiatric etc). Also a referral for in home counselling as difficult child 2 has suddenly refused to go to any of the programs we were attending outside of the house claiming he doesn't need them as he punches me in the back and tears up half the house. I hope I can last that long without driving my own self to need some sort of drug cocktail....although at this point, that sounds just fine!
  2. 4timmy

    4timmy New Member

    I feel for you and know exactly where you are coming from.

    I had the same exact thoughts and felt bad about putting my difficult child on medications at all. The medications NEVER made my difficult child a zombie.... nope, not gonna happen.... still hasn't happened almost 10 years now. :) The memory hiccups you are having, etc. are due to stress. I get the same thing.

    Keep a close watch on how your difficult child reacts to the increased Adderal and addition of Risperdone. I'm actually surprised your doctor raised and added at the same time because if it doesn't help, how are you going to know which medication is the issue? Anyways, our psychiatrist did the same thing with difficult child with Vyvanse and Risperdone. I know Adderall is a stimulant so some people experience more anxiety with higher doses. My difficult child got worse with Risperdone. Had to take him off immediately. He got even more aggressive. Finding and adjusting the right cocktail never ends. We have been doing it for 10 years now. Now, difficult child is going through puberty, so it's hard sometimes being able to tell if it's puberty or the medications.

    Oh, and hang in there. It's perfectly normal to feel what you are feeling. I had to make myself stop talking to family and friends because I got tired of getting advice from people (even though intentions were good) that just did not have a clue as to what we go through. Come to this forum when you want to talk about it, everyone here "gets it". It sounds like you need some "you" time. I know it's elusive, but make the effort. Your mind needs a rest.
  3. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    My former mother in law (mother of Useless Boy, aka Miss KT's father) told me repeatedly how terrible I was for "poisoning the child." But she didn't have to live with her, answer the calls from school, and all the other stuff involved. Risperdal was a life saver around here, seriously...no more holes punched in walls, fewer screaming fits, no more doors torn off the hinges and thrown at my head...and since she hasn't had insurance since August, I can tell she's just hanging on by her fingernails.

    Do what you think is best for your child. And go have a pedicure or something where someone takes care of you. I always smile when I look down at my bright pink (or purple) toes.
  4. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Hey, what you are feeling is normal. Sometimes we feel like we are at our absolute tolerance max with these kids.

    Coming here and getting out with those of us who know exactly what you are feeling is a help. Pink toes sounds good too!

  5. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911


    While what I typed a few weeks ago may have come off as harsh? I worried that maybe you wouldn't come back or you thought "I can't stand this person who IN The H does she think she is?" to give me advice like she did. I didn't mean to offend you, or make you mad, hurt your feelings or anything like that. I just wanted you to know - I've been exactly where you were..exactly. I think maybe after years of my life's experiences? I've just gotten not so flowery (probably wrong word there). If I did make you feel anything uncomfortable? My apologies. Just wanted you to know I really have thought about you.

    As far as medicines and what you felt? What you are feeling? The memory loss? This is exactly why I suggested someone for you to talk to. People get so uneasy and offended by the word therapist, but do you have any idea the phenominal amount of stress and anxiety YOU are under not only as a Mother, but as a worker, wife, person? It's unreal. Every day things don't get any easier, they get more complicated, more involved - your children get older and that in itself gets more complicated when it should get more easier - but with our kids the stakes get higher because the troubles and penalties they face like law enforcement, jail time etc become real adult issues and those things are reality. Not to mention their clothes are more expensive, cars, insurance - and the need to fit-in as teens is ghastly, plus add in adolescent hormones and changes and attitudes and you think about the child you gave birth to and now you've got this nine, ten eleven year old emerging 'unknown alien' living in your house and you would literally give your right arm for one day of normal, then sit and ponder what IS normal?

    Plus you start thinking back over the last years from prebirth to now and it just killed me - did I eat microwave food? Did I drink lemonade with aspartame in it? Is THAT what caused him to be like this? Was I near overhead electrial wires? Where did I live, what was in the water I drank and on and on until I made myself nuts trying to figure out what caused this. For us it's not much of a no-brainer - my x is a psychopath and BiPolar (BP). I'd love to blame genetics completely. But then again we trialed over 62 medications (and yes there was major guilt about it and no none of them really helped) he's 20 now and none of them were much affective except the anti-depressants. So you start thinking what did help? For us? Therapy. The things we learned there didn't help my son right away, but like I say - if they have ODD - what does that mean? They are defiant. So isn't a therapist in a position of authority? yup. Well at 20 my sons therapy is just now starting to pay off. 15 years of going all the time, every week and it's like someone pulled a string in his attic. Like HE thought of this all by himself.

    Wearing him out physically helped - riding a bike, walking, climbing, being active constantly helped him the most. Keeping him busy. It's like no one has that energy level. I certainly didn't I was worn out completely. Our family therapy once a week helped us air things out between us all, and my individual therapy? Saved my life. It was MY 45 mins there, 45 mins in the chair and 45 mins back - to MYSELF. And those 45 mins talking to the shrink? Heaven - it was like MY time to blow it out about my kids, work, people, fiance - and MYSELF plus anything and everything I wanted to complain and #_)%)#(* about - and then? Get a solution to work on, but for 45 minutes? I had one persons attention that listend to ME without someone trying to jump in and say "Well you know I.......and Oh yeah that reminds me of a time I......" just me - and I wasn't complaining to my fiance, family, friends......and you keep those people that way. They don't mind being around YOU and you get happier, less guilty, you start to figure yourself out, and it's not all roses at home.....but you start to get control over lots of things in your life, and I had a hot temper...now? I have coping skills. I can say no to people...I know why things happened in my life. I know why I parented the way I did and now I parent differently. I'm calmer...I like myself. I still take anti depressants, but that doesn't matter. Some cars need more oil, I need Welbutrin.

    So with your son? He might be the kid that needs more XX medicine......and it may work to help support him so that he can focus while he works with his therapist on his behaviors. If it isn't you tweak and move on to something else. It's going to be like that for him, and it's going to be like this for you - unfortunately. He's always going to be a high-energy kid, and unless you do something to help yourself? You are going to feel constantly drained, like you will never catch up, always on the edge, and unfortunately a bubble bath of Calgon ain't gonna cut it. Blowing it out once a week for 45 minutes with a trained professional that can help you get one step ahead of your kids? Might. That AND finding Mommy Island where Raoul massages your back and some cabana boy brings you endless margaritas.....while you get pink toes. (good idea)

    Hugs & Love
  6. HowMuchLonger

    HowMuchLonger New Member

    Star, I genuinely apologize for my lack of some sort of response to your other post. I will be honest, the first time I read it I got really defensive and thought "screw it, this board has the same judgemental types on it as I come across in real life". I started typing MANY replies to your post, and deleted them just as quickly. I already know that I am the type of person that gets hurt feelings very quickly, but in hindsight realizes what the reality of the statement was versus how I was taking it. I took the day to break the post down and revisited it several times until I finally could read it without feeling offended, and actually did get some advice from it.

    However, life with difficult child 2 just happened to make a downward spiral at about that same time and I haven't even visited the board much in the past week or two. I was going to let you know that I was offended by how you "misread" and judged the situation...but then realized perhaps I myself was misreading and judging your intentions and how easily over the internet we lose meaning in simple type written words when all we can rely on is our caps key and some emoticons.

    I am over it...I promise :) And I am thankful for any comedic relief, pity parties and even the constructive criticisms that I might get from this forum :)

    I have been given the suggestion several times now that I seek counselling for myself. I began taking anti-depressants a few months ago, but had to switch recently when the first ones did nothing but give me weird side effects. I haven't been on them long enough to see the full effects and hopefully some good come of it. I was asked by my gp if I wanted a referral and I turned him down at the time. But now it's looking like an oasis of relief and I'm starting to look into it.

    The pink toes...absolutely! With flip flop season just around the corner that sounds like a great idea. If only I could find a spa where muscular young men fed me grapes and fanned me with palm leaves whilst having that manicure done...life wouldn't seem so crappy ;)
  7. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member


    It took me a long time to realize that mental illness is contagious and you do get it from your kids!! I have/had the memory loss, the physical symptoms, etc. -- even ended up in the hospital twice. My doctor is great -- he said that, while ideally, I should lower my stress levels, he knows that I can't just stop being a mom (seriously, there are laws against that :smile: )

    In the last 6 months that Kanga was in our home, she was on an unreal level of medications. She was chemically knocked out about 10-12 hours/day and in full psychosis the rest. We HAD to 'zombify' her for everyone's safety. If she was awake, she was trying to hurt someone. And if we couldn't get some sleep, we wouldn't be able to function.

    With Eeyore, he was 7 when the doctor first gave us medications (Paxil) and it gave him complete flat affect and blah. We stopped that and didn't try medications again until he was 9, he got a little zombified but just enough that some of the therapy and other interventions could start to work. At one point he was on 7 different medications and he is down to 3. He very clearly needs some medications but we have found the balance between out-of-control and zombified -- just some tweaks as he grows.
  8. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I remember not wanting to medicate my difficult child. We started when he was only 4 and that sounded way too young. At first his diagnosis was ADHD and husband having taught younger children said he wanted difficult child to have more of a chance so he thought the medications would help. I remember in the summer taking him off the ADHD medication and after a week calling the doctor and saying either difficult child needed to go back on the medications or I needed to move! Seriously where does anyone get that type of energy?

    I can relate to wanting that zombified child-while, of course, we don't want that we do want more of a "normal" energy level or more "normal" behaviors.. I've learned that I had to get over the guilt of giving difficult child medications. Without them difficult child would not survive. If my difficult child had a physical medical condition I would give him the medications if he needed it. It wouldn't be fair to not give him the medications he needs for his mental health.

    I'm glad you have the referral to the children's hospital!
  9. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911


    You owe me nothing - I was sincerely worried about you. Had you come back with your feelings? I would have responded to them, and probably not like you are used to in the 'outside' world. Mostly because I raised boys, and because I had a son that would have tried the patience of any Saint. I was not a Saint by any means. I was just a Mom who was raised in a home to do as I was told, then had a son who didn't seem to do ANYTHING he was told and had an extremely hard time figuring out what in the world was the problem. Me? My parenting? Him? Nothing I did worked.

    Frustrating as it can get, and as helpful as the outside world tries to be? Most people who do NOT have children like ours haven't a clue. I say most because when you come here, and get suggestions or flat out advice? We have been there, and do know a little more about how to come at behavioral issues with kids like ours. In my case because I made the exact same mistakes I see others (not just you) posting about and I'll take a chance that you will get angry wtih me IF it helps the child. If it makes one change in your relationship with your son? It's worth it to me for you to think about what I said and be upset with someone you'll never meet in SC rather than me sit back and give you a 'hug' or sympathy. Change and suggestions will make changes for positive actions in your home - hugs and well wishes will not. When I came to the board and posted I also got some advice that took me out of my comfort zone, but a lot of it was from parents who had kids; now in their late 20's or who have passed away - I didn't want that for my son. I wanted to at least have an idea of what worked. Not everything does.

    What did work for us? Effective communication workbooks. Sounds ridiculous I know. I figured everyone already knows how to speak to people. Okay right now you're probably laughing thinking (well you could have used a little of that effective communication on me Star) and in a way you're right, I get very passionate about children and maybe what I saw in you and your son was a bit more of me and my son than I cared to remember. When I tell you he was out of control, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't. We were both horribly oppositional. When it was suggested that I attend parenting classes I was all for it, but in a sarcastic way. Then it was suggested that we went to family counseling, and individual counseling while our son went to his therapy. He did individual therapy, anger management, art therapy, rec therapy. You name it. I think he even had yoga, and breathing therapy. Whatever there was - we left literally no rock unturned. His behavior was off the charts. I was dealing with a psychotic ex husband who wanted to hunt us down and kills us, the death of an older adopted son, finding out my x had run up credit in my name, back taxes, trying to buy a home when I found out all of this, a child who wanted to kill me, the school system, having my son kicked out of every day care, loosing a job, after job due to my sons behavior, psychiatric. hospitals, Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s, crazy neighbors, the death of my Father, and just daily things, plus a nutty abusive past from my x - and I honestly thought I had it so together. By the time I did get to the doctor? I had been surviving on 3 hours of sleep a day for about 3-4 years. Wound tight? Yes please - tell ME I wasn't combative.

    Possibly my post - and I say possibly because I have no idea where you are coming from, but possibly the part of the post that I saw in you and reached out to was me seeing things sorta similar between us - mostly the frustration level in where normally? You'd never have gotten to that point ever. However when you did? I recognized it, and knew from looking back - that there is a slight chance once you cross over to that point? You are going downhill fast. Fighting an uphill battle very much alone. If I could take back any words I wouldn't but I'd have added those to try and make you understand I'm standing with you. Also if I lived anywhere near you? I'd take your son for a while and give you a break. You laugh - but I'm telling you - I get him. It would take one of us to take him for an afternoon and he'd do fine. That's what I'm telling you about outside world. They haven't survived one or two of these kids. They have no clue that under all that yelling, and screaming and threatening and combativeness - there is a kid that falls asleep at night - while you stand in the doorway of his room and cry while he sleeps blaming yourself and wondering where in the world that miracle is that will help him and WHY either of you have to suffer this whatever it is and how unfair it is.

    My heart goes out to you - It's a very unfair battle. I pass to you my tough as nails rhino skin, my warrior Mom suit, and any help I can ever offer as a board sister. My best advice at this stage of your battle is to not take any offense about therapy - but give it a try, and go, cry, be angry, sob, grit your teeth - whatever it is you need to do. Personally I took a baseball bat into the woods and beat trees and grass. My mantra used to be trees fear me - grass hates me - give you any idea where I was coming from? - I chuckle now and say "I'm much better now." But 15 years of thearapy in retrospect will do that for you.

    I'm glad you are here. It does get better - but know it's going to be tough - that's why you have friends who understand, support you and won't shoot you any BS. It is what it is - and then you go get pink toes.

    Hugs & Love
  10. lmf64

    lmf64 New Member

    Star is right! We all have gone through the moments of self doubt and thinking we'd done something to make our kids the way they are and many of us resisted medications for them for as long as we could. The first doctor I took my son to was at one of the best known medical centers in the world. He was 6 and for over 2 years I hadn't had a day when I wasn't bruised somewhere caused by my lovely child. I was more upset when I left that appointment then I had ever been. I got a blame the parent/ing diagnosis. I went searching that night and found this place. I don't post often, but do read many times a day and can tell you that the advice I've gotten from the ladies (and gentlemen) here is better than any that I've paid big bucks for.
  11. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I've posted about this before - I was at a school dinner and a parent who didn't know me (friend of friend) said to me as conversation starter, "So what do you think about these parents who drug their children into submission?"
    I replied with, "If you're talking about ADHDF medications, I'm one of them, and very glad of it."
    I knew it was red rag tp a bull, but I wasn't going to be cowed by bullying words.

    Mind you, I do get angry at kids being medicated without properly being assessed.

    As for hoping for a zombified kid - for years I have complained about breakfast cereals which claim to give kids energy. WHY?
    I want "Narco-Pops, the authentic energy drain cereal. Guaranteed to have them docile all day and sleeping peacefully all night!"