Wayward daughter

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by newstart, Nov 26, 2017.

  1. newstart

    newstart Active Member

    Thanksgiving has come and gone. My visit with my mother went very well. She was kind and did not hurt my feelings once, I am grateful for that. My 35 year old bipolar daughter did not come with me, which is sad because my mother and her have a special bond.

    I try very hard to control my emotions and words but this past 6 months my daughter has pushed me to a point where I felt out of control. I screamed and yelled at her until my vocal cords hurt. In my everyday life, I pride myself on being kind and respectful to each soul I meet. My daughter has pushed me that hard with her choices and her lies.
    Nov 15th was her deadline, either pay us rent or she was going to get evicted. She came over and looked at me and saw I was dead serious about evicting her. I think she thought I was the same old push over that she used and disrespected. She knows that the old push over me is gone for the most part and I have had enough of her crap to last me 100 lifetimes. I told her that where she chooses to live is really no concern of mine, I told her that we are not going to support her and her non contributing boyfriend and she knows how to make things happen, she is very wise on ways to rip me off, she can use that wisdom to make things happen for herself.
    She knows deep down that I may have been the worlds worst push over in the past but I am not one now. She knows I have a broken heart but does not care, it is all about her.
    Well, she came up with rent money. She has now paid 1/2 of what she owes and has a plan to pay the rest. It is still thousands of dollars but it is a start in the right direction. She gets to live in a very nice home for a fair rent. I put a large down payment on her home so the rent would be very doable. She knew she would have to live in a studio apartment for more rent. Why she did not think about this as she was not paying her rent is a wonder of the world. Why cause me all the grief in the first place. I talked with her last night and got an earfull of lies. I have told her and explained to her a thousand times that her lies stress her brain and body out and give her anxiety, why not work at trying to stop it. I have spent probably a million dollars on therapy to get her to stop the stupid lies but yet they keep going. The damage is awful and she hangs on to the lying like it is gold..Can she really not stop lying? Why on earth would someone put themself though so much stress and anxiety.
    At least the forward motion is in the form of trying to repay me for rent. I am happy about that but she still owes. At 35 I would have never done that to my parents, in fact I was sending them money.
    So for now we talk and text. I can not be completely comfortable with her, she hurts my spirit with the lies and secrets. I love her dearly, I do not like how she is with me. I see bits and pieces of her trying and then 5 steps backwards. I know she knows better.
    In the past my daughter has come up with some very intelligent ways on how to rip me off. She took college money out of a college fund and took trips around the world. She can talk her way out of trouble, she knows the right things to say even when she is clearly at fault. She has some type of intelligent way to be deceiving. But as always the truth always does come out. She is painful to be around and she is extremely painful while she is manic. She is precious and she is devious.
    I know I have to work on myself. I read a meme the other day that said when you become your own bestfriend life becomes much better.
  2. Crayola13

    Crayola13 Active Member

    If she's making your life that miserable, I think you would have more peace in your life if you threw her out.
  3. newstart

    newstart Active Member

    She lives in her own home, a home that I have bought but she is making the rent payments but stopped last July. I need to read and reread about detatchment. I feel sick to my stomach.
  4. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    Let me see if I have this right: she owes you months of back rent and paid you half a month?

    Would you allow another tenant to stay under those conditions? Especially if they treated you badly?

    See a lawyer and draw up eviction papers. You don't need this heartache, let alone the financial headaches.
  5. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    This is hard stuff newstart, all of us go upside down, sideways and in many directions before we find our way. It's a process. It's one day at a time. As everyone around here says, 'nothing changes until something changes.' YOU will need to be the one who changes.

    Your daughter manipulates you. It's abusive and disrespectful. I agree with Going North, make her pay the remainder of the rent money and then, if she cannot pay on time, evict her. Get all your ducks in order. It is HIGHLY likely that this behavior will continue until YOU stop it. How much longer do you want this to continue? It will continue as long as YOU allow it.

    The way we parents put a stop to this kind of behavior is to stop accepting it. To stop accepting this behavior most of us need a lot of support, usually from professionals, to stop enabling our adult kids and allow them to suffer whatever consequences their choices lead them to. That's the really hard part, to NOT step in before the consequences begin for them.

    Set strong, impenetrable boundaries. Figure out what you want and then implement it. Don't allow your daughter to run your life into the ground. You matter and you deserve a life of peace.
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  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I vote to evict her. She is ungrateful and mean to you.

    Treat her like any tenant and stop buying expensive items with her in mind. Let her grow up, even if she throws an adult toddler tantrum at you for no longer paying her way. In fact, refuse to listen to it.
  7. Halogen Lights

    Halogen Lights New Member

    In the past, my daughter had a townhome at age 22. She was great at upholding that initially and then as the years progressed, the company she worked with dropped all the women managers in the region for remote male managers and shift laborers in the stores. Being jobless she went into a depression. I paid the mortgage, utilities, etc. with a friend for a long time. She eventually sold the townhome and relocated with her daughter. Today, though, it is as if this never occurred and she says I never did anything for her.

    If you continue to help (I know it is hard not to under the circumstances) - you need to draw up paperwork and record all payments with an agreement toward reimbursement. Make her acknowledge and sign an agreement that plainly states you are aiding her to get on her feet. That is "if" you have the resources. I've suffered business-wise and personally for providing while my life things were tight.

    It is hard to put an adult child with a disability out - has she applied for disability? is she receiving Medicaid? I would opt for programs and introduce her to same and then if not accepted do what is necessary.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Anxiety and depression are not usually disabling. I have both badly. They are extremely common and treatable mental illnesses. I assume Daughter refuses medications and therapy. That is on her.

    I have been out of my parent's care since just 20 and dont think parents need to take care of kids her age, depression, anxiety or not. She will use "help" from Mom to act helpless and do little. She seems like she has a deliberately short memory. I would close the Bank of Mom. Many of us had to, even with our adult kids throwing toddler tantrums. They cant have us doing their life forever.
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  9. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    There's nothing wrong with helping out a kid just starting out. In my family I 'put the pay packet on the table" starting with my first official job. I paid rent and a share towards the household. (this may be a cultural thing, but I didn't feel it was unfair at all.)

    When then fiance' and I found our first apt, I was shocked to discover that my parents had put most of the money I had paid as "rent" away and used it to outfit our new "household", including furniture and bedding. and pay move-in costs. (security deposit, etc.)

    This despite them not being particularly happy about us shacking up.

    Both sets of parents helped out on occasion our first few years together, and it was greatly appreciated. We paid back with chores, hauling stuff (we had a van), helping cater holiday dinners, clean up, etc.

    The last time my family helped out was when my furnace died to the tune of 4K up in n.WI. This 5 mos after my drainage system died to the tune $3700.

    I opened the mail a few days after the new furnace was installed to find a check from my mother for 2K. Some may remember my posting about how to handle this.

    In the end, I took their advice and said nothing except for thank you.

    So, it's OK to help out if the kid is grateful for the help, AND it truly makes you feel GOOD to help. If you feel obligated to help, or if you help because you feel guilty, or it makes you feel taken advantage of, then you are helping for the wrong reasons and should stop.

    Giving money or things to a child should not be complicated by 2nd or side thoughts. You should feel GOOD about the gift, nothing else. No 2nd thoughts. No worries about the money being used for something other than what it was given for. In fact, you should be able to give cash without worrying about what it will be used for.
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  10. newstart

    newstart Active Member

    Halogen Lights, She is not on disability and not on medicaid. She thinks nothing is wrong with her.
  11. newstart

    newstart Active Member

    Just had another major blow out with my 35 year old daughter this morning. She told me she broke up with her low life boyfriend and I saw his car over at her place yesterday. I confronted her on the phone today about the money she owes us and the lying smoke she blows my way, I don't think my health can take her. My chest hurts and my heart hurts. She is awful to me and if I keep accepting her back she will continue. I may have to blow her off for another 3 months to regain my strength, self respect and any normal feelings. I can feel depression come on and I know it is from being around someone so highly toxic.
  12. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hon, it is very uncaring of her, especially by her more mature age, to be so awful to you, an older woman and her mother, that you feel sick and depressed.

    You may be her mom, but she is toxic to you. I dont often advise no contact, but in her case, she could kill you. I doubt she brings joy to anyone...she just seems toxic, period. Why talk to her? It will only make you sad and sick.

    You dont need to cut her off completely. That is hard. You can limit how much you deal with her too, such as one call a week for ten minutes, but if she abuses you then you can end the call. Ignore texts. Less contact is better. You have done all you can. No more money. Close the Bank of Mom. Or if you hand her money, accept that you wont get paid back. This is important...it is better for your emotional health if you are not constantly disapppointed.

    Ignore her personal life. Its not your business if she picks abusive men, and there is nothing you can do about her choices anyway.

    Do you have kind loved ones or friends to spend time with? Hobbies? What was your life like long ago, before Daughter? Can you try enjoying your life again?

    Honestly, allowing Daughter to abuse and use you is bad for BOTH of you. Daughter needs to learn boundaries and that abusing people is not an effective way to get what she wants.

    Love and hugs!
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    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  13. newstart

    newstart Active Member

    Somewhere out there, I know that it has to me to make the major changes. I just hate that it has to come to this again. Life is so short and unpredictable that it grieves me to the bone that she is still acting like this at age 35. The last few months have been very hard. I have hobbies and work and I volunteer but it does not take the edge off trying to have a loving relationship with my daughter. We do connect here and there but lately it is horrible. I don't think there is a replacement for a child and even though I try hard to cover the hole. I am learning how to detatch. I have to detatch or I will die. My daughter is going through a very toxic time again. I am so sad that the tears will not even come. I know what I need to do, I am just so very sad and broken. I have many lovely friends but none with a daughter as grieving as mine. I am just plain tired and so hurt.
  14. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    newstart, I have so much empathy for you, you've essentially lost both of your kids. I am so sorry. I know how you feel, I felt the same way a mere 6 years ago, when my daughter began her journey thru hell. I raised my younger sister too, but as a result of bi-polar and other mental illness' my sister estranged herself from the entire family, so I can relate to losing those you raise....

    Your heart is broken, you're depleted, exhausted, grieving, full of sorrow and hurt.....the recognition that you need to detach from your daughter is mind blowingly devastating, especially after losing your son......I can't imagine how hard this is for you.

    As you grieve your way thru this, get yourself some serious support to get you thru it and begin the process of putting yourself first, focus on YOU. Each day do nourishing, kind, compassionate things for yourself. That's the way I got thru this........LOTS of support, putting myself as the priority, learning to accept what I can't change and learning to live in the present moment...letting the past go and not further tripping. It's hard newstart......but you can heal from this and go on to thrive as opposed to struggling and simply surviving.

    Read the article on detachment at the bottom of my post......read the book, Codependent no more by Melodie Beattie......and put yourself as the priority. Take care of YOU now.
  15. newstart

    newstart Active Member

    Recoveringenable, Thank you for your empathy and compassion. I sat in the sun a little while and my healing tears started. I feel a bit better since the tears finally ran out, I believe I have been so grieved that I could not even cry. My daughter is a lot like her paternal grandmother, the same strain of bipolar or borderline. Being as ugly as she can be and then calling me and acting like nothing has happened, or buying me a gift to ease the blow of another beating. Same pattern, same madness. My life got immediately better when I made the decision to not have any contact with my bipolar mother in law, sister in law and brother in law. I felt the weight of the world off my shoulders. Each one of these bipolars would not leave me alone after they harmed me. I got my voice at age 37 when my son died and I had to make nessesary changes. My voice has been quiet because I know I will have to dump one more bipolar off my list and that will be my toxic daughter. If these people think I am so bad then why can't they ever leave me alone? Why do I end up getting stalked or called or trying to come over to my home all the time? If I thought someone was awful I would keep as far away as I could and I would NEVER have called that person or try to contact them in anyway. In my everyday life I am mellow and truly believe in Karma. I feel sorry for people that are truly mean because it hits them back in the face 100 fold. Maybe if it is painful enough it will teach them to stop being so ugly. I look forward to a good work out tonight and being around someone kind. I have read and studied the post on detatchment. It is very good, healing and it feels like truth to me. Thank you and thank all of you for your support.
  16. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Tears are healing. Good for you.

    newstart, being around so much mental illness, for both you and I, is the PHD program for detaching and self acceptance. Over many years I've had to detach from almost my entire bio-family and then my only child. It's been very hard. However, the relief and the new level of peace and calm that emerged as a result of those choices CANNOT be overstated. I had to wake up on every level to how I was manipulated, dragged around by skewered, broken thinking, blamed, shamed and thrown overboard continually......until I started saying no and detaching. Not one of my family members stopped on their own.....I had to change every time. I enabled and enabled and enabled until it almost killed me......and then, as I've mentioned a thousand times here, I took a 2 year long codependency course lead by therapists and what I learned there changed my entire life. As I began setting boundaries with my daughter and others, it was remarkable how much of my life changed.

    Hang in there newstart. You can do this. It sure sounds as if you've reached your bottom.........it's only up from there!
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  17. newstart

    newstart Active Member

    Recoveringenabler, I so much appreciate your note of encouragement and push to get the ball rolling in the right direction. Last night I made the decision to not speak or have very limited contact with my BiPolar (BP) daughter. I woke up this morning, slept a few extra hours, felt peace deep in my soul and knew the only other answer that I had was to detatch. I am not new to this, I had to do this for 3 months when my daughter was 28. At the time it straightened her out long enough to get a grip and I thought we could try to talk it out but her behavior is so toxic to me that my system just can't take it. In reality her behavior is unexeptable on every level. I remember when I detatched from my toxic in laws, my life immediately got better, it was like the dirty fog got cleared and I could live again. All that time they told me how horrible I was and when I asked them what I did that was so bad, they could not tell me, or they would make up stuff and try to get into my life though the door, phone, through other people, they would not leave me alone, it was a battle to keep them away and they kept trying. I learned the meaning of stalking and that is what all three of them did. I remember when I was very young and very naive, my bipolar mother in law told me that I have to accept her and that is the way it is going to be. I almost had a break down believing that I had to have her in my life, my husband was raised with her like that and thought that was normal and ignored her attacks to me, after our son died he finally saw it and put his foot down. It took me along time to blow someone off, I was raised by a very peace loving, fair grandmother and I try very hard to come to peace with each relationship. I think the preditors smell this in me and attack, I have grown up since then. I may have written this out already but I saw a meme that I have been focusing on and it said 'when a woman becomes her own best friend life gets better immediately' I thought a lot about that as I sat in the sun. I was kind to myself. My husband said to me last night that I really need to take care of myself, I have really spoiled him, yes ladies, let me tell you about my spoiled husband. I give him a manicure and pedi, every Sunday, wake up make his breakfast, pack him a nice lunch, make sure his clothes are pressed, trim all unruly hair, then I give his shoes a high shine before he walks out. oh yeah, I have a massge bed out at all times and give him deep tissue massages because his job is so demanding. We have been together a long time, buried one child, have a bipolar child, and are still real friends. I will not regret that I do what I do for him, together we will over come one more out of control, grieving bipolar person that has come to destroy our lives. It is upwards from today.
  18. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I have a mood disorder and when mean people are classified as bipolar, i get frustrated. Bipolars are not mean...but borderlines are and I think that often bipolar, which is highly treatable, is misdiagnosed a lot when it is really borderline, which is very hard to treat. Bipolar is more like a flavor of the day in anyone who serms moody. In fact, bipolar and borderline are very different. Yes, one can also have both. Bug its the borderline that causes the abuse.

    I have spent a good deal of my life in therapy to learn to control mood swings, but not terrible ones because I take my medications and went to therapy. Borderlines stay mean even on medications. They require intensive therapy and compliance.

    Sorry to hijack this. Sometimes I get tired of borderline behavior mistaken for bipolar, but I guess it happens a lot. Off the soap box.
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    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  19. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

  20. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    Thanks SWOT.

    I was trying to get over being POed so I could write a reasonable response to the OP's references to "bipolars".

    As a person with Bipolar Disorder. Note that that is the correct reference, we don't call people who have cancer "cancers".

    I appreciate your stepping in.

    Thanks again.