Welcome Oh Man!

[Oh Man]

Ohhh My story is so long but I am going to try & keep it short.
I have a 15 yr old son who lies about everything under the moon!


1) He lies to get out of trouble

2) He lies to get his way

3) He lies to make himself look good to others

4) He just flat out lies....I don't know what is true & what is not true. He lies so much that if he told me it was raining outside I would have to go see for myself just to believe...........

So you'll better understand here is what happened tonight.
Keep in mind that I deal with- his lies all the time, everyday; on a constant basis so to say I'm frustrated is actually an understatement. I am beyond frustrated ................................ok so what happened is:
I go in the kitchen cabinet to realize that a bag of nuts had been eaten all....brand new pack bought today so they were eaten today. I have 3 kids. So I asked them all who ate the nuts. I told them I wasn't upset that no one was in trouble I just wanted to know who had eaten them. My 2 youngest who do not lie regularly both said they hadn't. I believed them -point blank. I had no reason not to because they are not known to be liars. I ask my 15 yr. old and he swore up and down and all around that he didn't eat them. I BEGGED this kid to tell me the truth. I told him I don't even care if he ate them. It's no big deal. I'm not mad I just want the truth for ONCE! I just wanted him to tell the truth and tell me that he ate them. That's all I wanted was for him to admit it. Well we go round and round and round. He looks me in the eyes tells me he didn't eat them, he then actually acts like he is a victim telling me I never believe him etc. I asked him how I could believe a liar? That that is what happens when a person lies all the time; they are not believed even if they are telling the truth.
Ok so FINALLY he admits he ate the stupid peanuts but he had no guilt, no shame, it was like I was looking into an empty shell.....I asked him why he lied and he said he didn't know. I started crying, trying to stress to him that I can't stand anymore of his lies, that it breaks my heart that he lies about everything & that I cannot believe anything he says. He looked at me and told me to "stop crying like a baby."......

I go through this with- him pretty much on a daily basis trying to drag the truth from him.

Ok I promised to keep it short & I really am trying......
Last yr he tried to commit suicide by hanging himself. I found him thank God in time.
He spent a week in a psychiatric hospital for suicidal/depressed teens. While in there he told the counselors that his same aged cousin (who is twice his size) had raped him and threatened him with- all kinds of threats like telling my son he would beat him up real bad if he told anybody, that he would tell everyone it was my son's fault that my son wanted to "do it", he said he would tell everyone my son was gay, etc. threats like that. My son said he was scared of him. He was/is twice my son’s size.

Well the counselor, psychiatrists believed my son and even me and his daddy believed him despite his lying problem (he has been lying for yrs now) his "story" made sense with- other things that had happened and when I looked back it made sense and so we supported my son, we told him we believed him, we cut ALL ties from that family, we switched churches because we all went to the same one, stopped going to family gatherings with- them and everything. To this day we have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with- that family. Our son has our support. He has been in counseling since last yr.

(Just so you know the cousin admitted to having some sexual contact with- my son but he says that it was mutual. his parents believe him. There are 2 other families involved as well. The cousin admitted to also having sexual contact with- them all but he says they all wanted to “do it” that it was all mutual with- all of them)

Ok so we are dealing with- that ....well we told his psychiatrist about his lying problem and he believes my son's about the sexual abuse but he believes that he does have a lying problem and he has done everything he can think of to counsel my son with- his lying but my son is still lying like tonight. (I’m actually beginning to wonder now if he wasn’t lying about the sexual stuff & his cousin.maybe it was mutual like his cousin said)

His daddy & I are at our wits end......we pray for him, we've raised him in church since birth, he goes to counseling weekly. We just do not know what else to do!

Does anyone have any suggestions at all? Have any of you gone through anything like this?

If you actually read this thank you!!

Just do your best and choose your battles wisely. You should decide if something is really worth the trouble that will come from it when dealing with his misbehavior. Provide your son food, shelter, a safe place to land after his many mistakes and chance for an education. Remind him that you love him and you are here when he needs you. You can not change him or his behavior. The more you try to make him "normal" the more he will fight back. If he is going to make changes he will have to do it himself and it will most likely get worse before it gets better. I know that you are sad for him because who wants this for their child. When he says "stop crying like a baby."...... take his advice. Remember he is human and he is dealing with all kinds of feelings and emotions. Do the best you can and don't be consumed by his mistakes. Try your best to live your life because you are a human with feelings and emotions as well. Who knows what is going on in his brain? Good Luck and I wish the best for you and your family.

 

[Wiped Out]

Welcome Oh Man!

I know the lying can drive you nuts. My difficult child used to do that all the time but now only rarely. My easy child/difficult child does it often and I have a very hard time trusting her. I'm really glad you found your son in time and that he is seeing a counselor and a psychiatrist.

No advice at this point as I haven't dealt with a lot of what you are dealing with. Others will be along with more ideas. I'm glad you found our soft corner of the world but sorry you needed to.

 

[JJJ]

He's lies for the power. The more you beg him to tell you the truth, the more power he has. Use your best judgement as to the truth (ex. who ate the chips) and then react as such (punishment, etc). Do not ask him to tell you anything as it is just a request for a lie. If he asks how come you no longer ask for his side of the story, tell him that he has proven time and again that he cannot be trusted to speak the truth so you will no longer bother asking him.

 

[trinityroyal]

Welcome Oh Man. Sounds like you have your hands full.

I agree with JJJ's advice about the lying. My difficult child lies about everything also, for every reason under the sun. And if he does tell the truth, he often uses it as a tool to manipulate. No remorse, no guilt, no learning. It's impulsive.

The way I've dealt with it is to take difficult child's words out of the equation. If he tells my something, I assume it's a lie unless I can get independent verification that's not influenced by him. (In other words, I won't ask his Nana or sister, since he could have told him the same lie. I have to be able to verify it myself.) It makes things so much simpler, because I don't feel betrayed and hurt anymore, and I just deal with the behaviour and consequences.

difficult child sometimes gets angry and frustrated because I don't believe him and don't trust him, but I've explained that this is the reality he's created by being untruthful.

Asking your son for his side of the story just sets you up to be lied to and hurt. I know we want so badly to believe them that it's tempting to give them "just one more chance to tell the truth this time", but sometimes they're just not hard-wired that way.

Sending gentle hugs,
Trinity

 

[wintak]

Welcome. My difficult child lies constantly, too. And I would also go check the weather if he told me it was raining.

Trinity...so in this case, would you not ask who ate the nuts, but assume (if the others said it wasn't them) that difficult child ate them? Is that kind of what you are saying?

 

[trinityroyal]

Trinity...so in this case, would you not ask who ate the nuts, but assume (if the others said it wasn't them) that difficult child ate them? Is that kind of what you are saying?

Not really. I tend not to ask questions like that at all, since it puts everyone in an awkward position. difficult child gets upset when I believe other family members but not him, and no one else needs to put up with the drama. Rather than asking "Did you eat the nuts?" or even "Who ate the nuts?" I would either look for some tangible evidence that I could use (e.g. empty nut container hidden in difficult child's bag, or salt dust on his fingers and around his mouth), or set up the situation differently.

It's a matter of asking the right questions: Do you really need to know who ate the nuts? Or is it that difficult child is eating something he shouldn't, or at a time when he shouldn't.

When difficult child still lived at home, we either kept things he wasn't to have under lock and key, or we didn't keep them in the house at all. That way, if he had them he either broke into the supply or got them from outside. Either way it was against the rules and he got consequences. And we didn't have to rely on trying to get the truth out of him in any case.

Trinity

 

[Marguerite]

Welcome, Oh Man. I've been busy for the last day or so; I saw this thread but mentally bookmarked to come back to it later when other things were not so distracting!

First, kids lie for a number of reasons. The first and most important reason they lie, is to get out of trouble. From there they can get into other bad habits and, as JJJ said, they begin to lie for the power. A habitual liar gets some sort of kickback out of fooling other people; they feel smarter than everyone else and they begin to lie NOT just to get out of trouble but to make themselves feel superior to others and thereby boost a flagging self-esteem. But like a drug addict, it needs a bigger fix each time.

Looking at the bag of nuts as an example, your main need was to ensure that when you buy nuts (often for a particular purpose, or maybe because you had a yen for nits right then) that you can explain where they went, or at the very least, know you need to replace them.
We run a shopping list. There is a roll of paper and a pencil on top of the fridge, when anybody opens the last packet of something, they are supposed to write it on the list. I have been known to stand in the middle of the room and say, "I don't care who ate the last of the cereal, I just want whoever did, to make sure it goes on the shopping list!" This way part of the "where di d the nuts go?" suddenly gets tied to WHY you want to know - so you know whether it's worth replacing them or not.

When I found certain foodstuffs evaporating within hours of getting home, and in such a way that they were not shared, I simply stopped buying them. Chocolate biscuits gone in half an hour? Fine, I'm not buying them any more. Bag of walnuts gone? Fine, I will cook my biscuits without nuts. Choc bits eaten? No home made choc chip cookies, no brownies. If I want to cook anything chocolate, I now use cocoa.

difficult child 3 eats a lot of corn chips. I keep a weather eye on the supply, but he has to put them on the shopping list. If we run out, then he hasn't got any to eat. He has to put them on the shopping list. Same with his deodorant, his toothpaste. He is learning - this morning when I telephoned him for the shopping list, he said, "Ground beef is not on the list and it should be; I need you to make me some more bolognese sauce."

This is not only teaching your children life skills for the future, it is putting reason and balance back into the issues and teaching them to work as part of a team.

He sounds like there are deep issues here, and it also sounds like your methods are not working for him. That does not mean you are a bad parent; it just means that whatever you do that works with the other kids, is not working for him.

Marg