well, here's the word

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by klmno, Feb 9, 2012.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    PO called about 4:15 and said difficult child would not be released tomorrow, he would be transferred to local detention center for "detention reentry"- for how long? He doesn't know but that was word from central office and he'll let me know when difficult child is transferred.. I call central office and they told me to talk to PO- I am to work with PO, not them. OK- now let me just say- detention reentry is supposed to be 30--60 days and is used as a step down program and is not to add to a juvenile's time incarcerated/sentence. That's the law. I had asked for it before. Fine except that PO refused to look at it and I didn't push that one due to lack of education in a detention center and due to difficult child saying he'd rather be in a state Department of Juvenile Justice and PO said difficult child wouldn't qualify because it would require difficult child finishing his anger management tx at least 30 days prior to his release date. Never mind any of that- it's illegal for them to order any program that adds to his incarceration or punishment at this point. It's the law. I've spent the last 1/2 hour trying to get an attny willing to go up against Department of Juvenile Justice. If they can't follow the law regarding step-down being used to add to his sentence and PO is saying he doesn't know how long difficult child would be in there when it says 30-60 days in the law, I sure can't trust them to release difficult child from the detention center at 30 days. Oh- and difficult child has to wait where he is until they are ready to accept him in the local detention center. Now I'm ready to write fed doj. Does anyone have any other suggestions?
  2. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Now, it's my understanding that this was passed into legislation as part of the reentry initiative. Yet, in this situation this would add to difficult child's sentence and PO "doesn't know how long difficult child would be in there" and central office doesn't want to oversee it because I should be dealing with PO. Now what do I do?

    what does one do when the state has no inspector general but yet you know a state dept is breaking the law? Media? Anyone else? There aren't that many people, even attnys who claim to know juvenile law, that really have looked at what is legal pertaining to our juveniles.

    OK -here's the only other option I can think of- if difficult child is in the local detention center, I can probably get a hearing ordered. They can't detain a kid without a hearing or sentence. That alone would require a judge to order a "sentence" or additional trial or immediate release.
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2012
  3. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    You need a lawyer for this. You also need to contact the feds. This is just so terribly wrong but I don't quite know how to help or what advice to give. Is there an ACLU office that you could visit? I am so furious at them I want to scream.

    I wonder what would happen if we all tried to combine our contacts to create a big media uproar? I am sure PO is doing this to more than just difficult child.

    (((((hugs))))) to you and to difficult child. He must feel so alone and abused by this.

    I wonder what the Governor's Prisoner Re-entry Council would say about this?
  4. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I sent a letter to aclu last weekend- before this decision was made. I don't know if they'll take the case or not. But something is seriously wrong when central office is telling me to deal with PO and PO is telling me he's just relaying decision from Department of Juvenile Justice- but this is the very agency supposedly there to enforce accountability and responsibility for one's own decisions to my kid.
  5. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Those are some great ideas. I would start making some MEANINGFUL noise wayyyyy above the PO's head!!
  6. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I think I need to make some noise above this state's head. I mean really- this is difficult child's release date not 30-60 days prior plus PO is saying difficult child has to wait until they can accept him here in detention and then he doesn't know how long difficult child will be in here. Central office isn't paying a bit of attnetion to PO in regards to whether or not he's doing something lawful. They are doing nothing but CYAing- I assume because they have had such major complaints against them the past few years. You'd think they would wake up and realize that means they need to supervise their people better, not CYA them.

    And of course the point here is that difficult child will be upset with me because instead of him going to gh, now in his mind it will be even worse because he's going to another locked facility for some undetermined amount of time. That's ok- that gets it under the local court's jurisdiction and will make a local attny available. It's the fact that difficult child has to sit there indefinnitely before even getting transferred that adds to this looking like some sort of game by the PO. PO originally planned for difficult child to come home with no services but now he needs to stay locked up? Why? Could it have anything to do with me filing a complaint against him for not doing his job and complying with the law?

    And PO said central office made this decision because "the gh plan fell thru"- yeah- the gh plan required a judge to review and order it. They didn't even pursue that. If they thought they could win it, they would have gone for it. So they found another way to keep difficult child locked up. Am I the only person that views this as them thinking they are above the court and will do anything they can to keep this kid locked up as long as they can? We'll see- when difficult child gets transferred to local detention and i tell the clerk I want a hearing because my son is in their detention center and no one in this jurisdiction has scheduled a hearing to bring chrages, we'll see what happens. If they blow it off, I'll walk right in the higher court. I might do that anyway for unlawful detention. They simply cannot detain a kid "until they feel like it".

    I've already written the general assembly and the youth commission and the reentry council. I heard from the youth commission yesterday- and she is also on the workgroup for the reentry council. Maybe I'll give her a call tomorrow. You know darn good and well all this effort and money intended to enhance chances for prisoner and juvenile reentry isn't meant to be spent to boost POs' egos or keep a kid incarcerated longer than his release date.
  7. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    "Son, I am trying to make sure you are treated fairly by the system but I've been getting the total runaround between the PO and the mob that are supposed to be keeping him on the right track. I want you to make a success of yourself and I also want to see you free and enjoying life. What is happening is unfair and I have been working hard to try to get something good in place for you for when you get out. But as usual they have been passing the buck back and forth. Rest assured, I am keeping on with my fight for you because I love you and I think you are worth the effort. There is a lot of BS being spouted by different people and the outcome of this is, they seem to be trying to keep you inside beyond the length of your sentence. While we need to do the lawful thing, so do they. I am your mother and you know I will hold them accountable. I love you and want the best for you. I am not giving up on you."

    Adapt this to what you feel will be best taken on board by difficult child.

  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    thank you- you know what kills me about this is that PO justified it by saying this is happening b./c "plan for GH fell thru"- well duh- and he couldn't have found out 3 mos ago this wouldn't work without a court order and they apparently didn't pursue a court order (wonder why)? So now difficult child remains incarcerated in a state facility for some undetermined amount of time past his release date under the pretense that it's waiting for transfer to local detention center, to be held for a "reentry program" for "po doesn't know how long". They are full of koi. First problem- it's po's fault no parole plan was in place, 2nd problem, difficult child finished his sentence, 3rd problem, a detention reentry isn't supposed to add to his time and is supposed to be 30-60 days (actually, this local jurisdiction claims 30 days); 4th problem- they still aren't saying his length of stay or requirements to get out. If this guy was any more evasive or passive-aggressive, well...I don't know but I'm thinking he could write the rulesbook on it. And central office is backing this up? They say talk to PO, PO says it's not his decision it's the decision made by central office. And i want these people teaching my son what it means to take responsibility for himself?

    And before anyone chimes in concerned about me having custody- I want to remind everyone that we aren't talking about dss here- this is a kid who has always been my legal child and never been involved in dss and I have full legal authority to resume custody. I'm not incarcerated, I have never abandoned him, and I have bn=never been found as contributing to his delinquency. That doesn't mean I think I'm perfect but on no planet do I think these people are making better decisions regarding him than I am. They appear to me to be the ones punishing him for their own superficial desires.
  9. buddy

    buddy New Member

    I keep thinking what the he-double-hockey-sticks is happening to kids who do not have a parent who is as smart and tenacious as you are. This is beyond absurd. PO did this to show his power. Really needs to be fired, sued, whatever can happen to him. He is playing with people's LIVES....

    Just a mess.... How far away is the aclu office from you, can you just show up? I'm so mad at the other attorney for ditching you (Unless she died, but even then her partner should have called all of her clients)
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    klmno... Can I refresh your memory? (I'm on your side, just want to paint a very interesting picture)

    Initially, you did not want him to come straight home. There were valid reasons for that. It was discussed on this forum. Therefore, you were pushing for a placement that would allow a more controlled transition.

    Since then, two things have happened:
    1) You have gone into warrior mom mode. You have switched gears, and in that process, the whole way you present yourself - to yourself and others - has changed. You are in a better frame of mind to handle things. You are starting to know more about what can and can't be done, and why. YOU have changed.
    2) Your son has also shown some evidence of change.

    Of course, the PO isn't prepared to recognize either of those two changes. There is no good way to keep the two of you apart... so, he's doing whatever he has to do, whether it is legal or not. Its wrong. Totally. But... these "systems" are not geared for changes in mindset. To them, it doesn't exist, it can't happen.

    The question remains, of course...
    Now What?
  11. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    Are you in Texas?
  12. exhausted

    exhausted Active Member

    First let me say this is horrid. Even worse than what we went through. Second can I ask why they are trying to detain him longer? Has he been in trouble there? I know you wanted a gradual and supported release home, but why now all this? Is it really because the PO ego got tweaked when you actually advocated for your kid or is to pad the pockets of the fascilities?

    Next, you can get in touch with the judge( I'm assuming that your state keeps the same judge on your kids cases). You can have the bailiff of his court take a letter into him-this is the fastest way I know. (We have done this even on a day we did not have court) You can also go to his office at court house and have it delivered. Let him know what is going on-state the laws the options and the run arounds. Be clear about your desires and ask that he help. Judges get disgusted with how agencies handle this stuff. Our daughter's judge went off on several agencies when she was wrongly placed-we had told them and the records showed she was a runner and did dangerous things when on the run. They did not provide the safety we asked for. They ignored us and our rights and he told them this and placed her in jjs custody and Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Do not assume the judge supports the PO-they hold these guys accountable. Most judges are as frustrated with the system as we are. This is what I was told by the lawyer we hired. I don't know what his limits may be as the judge. He may not be able to hear the case, but he might be able to pull strings???

    As for finding a lawyer-the ones we found were all interested in getting rich kids out of DUI or drug charges-mostly. Few are interested because there is so little money and the laws are geared toward rehabilitation. Their hands are tied in many ways. The one we found had been the guy whose firm held the state contract for public defenders for youth. He got tired of the injustices and how kids were treated he decided to get out and be able to be a private defender. He was itching to sue the state. He had his eye on one particular part. When our case was focused on abuse in a state contracted fascility and he found out the state was safe and not liable, he lost interest. We decided to save our money for future rehab. as he just seemed to lose passion and drive which=these people can only pay so much and I may not make much since the stae is safe and this MH place has some protection as well. He didn't know the MH system. I wish I had better news.

    What about the other lawyer you had? It seems that you have a clear law and a clear violation. All she has to do is defend this.
  13. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    No, I'm not in Texas.

    Yes, there have been changes in both me and difficult child. First for me- I no longer have to travel for my job and teh temp situation of job contract has changed and we are currently being led to believve that we will get a 3-5 year contract. difficult child is not offending in Department of Juvenile Justice like he was last summer. PO is supposed to know these things because they are told to him and this is the whole reason a difficult child's parent has to stay in contact with a PO of their kid in this state, even thru the kid's i9ncarceration.

    I know I asked for services and for out-of-home placement and I'm sticking to that however, not just "any" placement but a parole plan that actually addresses our issues. That might seem unreasonable but given that these people refused to go along with previous MH profs recommendations and that didn't turnn out so well, I'm thinkging some cookie cutter repsonse isn't going to cut it. I'm not expecting to dictate what they are but they darn well better be in complaince with the law and I expect these people to read the flippin file first and when there is reentry funding available, use it to help the kid instead of funnelling it to a program that doesn't even meet the objective.

    I don't mean to be hostile and am not angry with anyone here, but so many people who are in this state have no idea what is really going on with our kids and no one seems to care about these details that could make all the difference in the world in the outcome of our kids- and tons of money is being thrown at it while people providing "services" are allowed to keep "self-reporting".

    Buddy, I'm not a saint by any stretch of the imagination but I have shed tears for those kids who have no parent there to see what is going on.

    A nurse called me tonight from Department of Juvenile Justice. She said some boy hit my son to start a fight but they think he's ok- they'll check him again tomorrow am just to make sure there aren't additional bruises. My son was on the phone, trying to make a call. My son didn't do anything to fight back so he's not in trouble- my son's only statement was that he's trying to come home. Do you know that a 40 yo rapist or other type felon would have gotten half the sentence in this state that my son got?
  14. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Yes. You are on the right track - whether they allow you and your son to get there or not, is a different story of course.

    Once upon a time, somewhere, I read something like this:
    Sounds like what you are trying to do.
  15. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    exhausted- they are claiming they have to keep difficult child detained in order to wait for "detention reentry". That's BS because 1) no kid has to wait to be sent to detention and 2) the detention reentry program is to not add to a sentence- it's a reward for a kid who has completed all his sentence requirements but still has time left on his sentence- that just doesn't apply to my kid. Why wasn't a better parole plan in place? Well, that's my official, written complaint against PO.

    Now, re trouble to get this before a judge- I moved shortly after difficult child offended and got recommitted. That means parole supervision was transferred to this jurisdiction but court records weren't, unless he had any pending case but he doesn't. So they are telling me here that a court judge has no case to hear or review. That's good in a way but bad in a way. And if I went back to original jurisdiction and ask for court review, they would say difficult child has already been tried and convicted and I moved so it's no longer under their jurisdiction. The law in this state is that if a kid is held in the detention center, a judge has to hear and review the case every so often and it's not a real long period of time. That is the best hope, given that even attnys willing to take a case like this don't know juvie law- it needs to be reviewed by a judge who, hopefully, doesn't automatically side with csu without hearing the facts.

    Yes, I'd love a parole plan that helped my son transition. But I'm way beyond ever being able to trust this PO when he's still acting like he's above the law and anytime I question him for not looking at the facts before making a decision he gets mad and difficult child gets a worse situation- this has happened several times but the others seemed neglible ccompared to this. Let's just say that napoleon complex would sum it up pretty well.
  16. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    This simply isnt how it is supposed to work. Can you actually find one of the re-entry programs locally that are considered a step down program and talk to the administrator there? If you can, I would pick their brains on just how those kids were placed. Even if you have to go to a different county to do this, I would do it. Someone has to be able to tell you the correct way these things work. The entire state of VA isnt doing it all wrong. There are places that are doing this in the correct way and that is what you need to find and figure out how to show these people how to copy it in your case. You may not be able to force them to make the changes for everyone at this point, but you can first put it in place for yours.
  17. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Oh, klmno... I have no wisdom... I wish I could be there with you, to help you fight this koi, though. This is absolute bovine manure!!! HUGS!!!
  18. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Hmmm. I knew in my gut that they would be doing something. It's too early for my brain to be in gear but have you called the woman at the facility to see if you can pick difficult child up today? She had indicated that you could before and perhaps that call should be made and noted in your records.

    Meanwhile I'll mull this over as I drink my coffee. DDD
  19. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    There are still toomany things not adding up. The PO said difficult child was being ordered to this detention reentry now because the central office reviewed the case and decided that since difficult child had 2 charges while at the Department of Juvenile Justice facility, he needed additional "services" before being transitioned home. difficult child would have to wait until they had an opening at the detention center, he didn't know how long it would be, and he didn't know how long difficult child would be at the detention center once there.

    Central office wouldn't even talk about it and just said to discuss it with PO.

    The person who called about difficult child getting hit last night said they'd just heard word yesterday that difficult child would be leaving to go to detention and I said yeah but we don't know how long he'll have to wait to go or how long he'll be there. She said it wouldn't be very long. I told her what PO said about having to wait and being at dettenntion some indefinite period of time. She said that isn't what she's hearing.

    1) PO made it sound like difficult child had to go to detention reentry as an additional "service" due to previous misconduct in Department of Juvenile Justice. That would be using reentry detention as a punishment when it's supposed to be a reward- a step down. And again, it's not supposesd to add to his time. And the detentioon reentry is supposed to be 30 days long so why didn't he say about 30 days?

    2) After talking to this lady last night then sleeping on it, it sounds like PO is lying to me or at least not being forthcoming about how long difficult child will be anywhere. They might not always tell a parent eexactly when a kid is getting transferred but they do give a fairly accurate range- such as 1 to 3 days or 2 weeks or whatever. I wonder though if the central office sent something to the Department of Juvenile Justice facility, too, and that's why this lady said what she heard isn't what I'm saying PO told me. Or is it that they heard one thing from PO and PO told me something different?

    I really wouldn't even mind about the detention reentry if we did know how long difficult child would really be there and it was not to exceed 60 days and was really going to be used for reunification. But I wouldn't trust this PO as far as I could throw him. He might try now to get GH ordered for after the detention time. Or he coulld wait until the day before difficult child is to be released from detention and set that date back.

    I'm going to try to call difficult child's counselor or the super at the facility. PO is just playing too many games. It could be that central office is only using the detention center as a very short term transitional place but PO is making it sound like it's indefinite just to instigate me. I don't know- something just isn't adding up. And why haven't I rec'd the written response central office said they were preparing to send to me so I hear it/see it from them? Who's verifying PO is tellling the truth?
  20. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I think calling is a good idea as well as making notes on the call. The facility people seem to have been polite and responsive to your inquiries in the past. I also think that the time frame will be days rather than weeks. Sadly I imagine the PO doesn't know because this was a quick decision made to avoid the fallout from GH placement. Of course that does not justify the handling of difficult child's case. Sigh.

    Does difficult child get to telephone you this week? He may have been informed about the placement and the time frame. I have no idea what the tone of the call should be to diminish his anxiety. Certainly something to think about in advance. Of course I don't "know" him but I "think" that if this is going to take place I'd try to do damage control very briefly and then focus on the positive aspects. The goal is reunification. Transitional services will be available. Whatever aspects that could be seen as an improvement over the GH placement. His frame of mind is paramount no matter where he is living.

    Hoping for the best, as always. DDD