What do you do when nobody will help you...nobody?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by MidwestMom, Feb 25, 2009.

  1. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I'm going to court with my friend tomorrow. Her son, who was recently hospitalized with psychosis_nos (whatever that means) is totally out of control. The cops have been to her house twelve times in the past three days. They do nothing. They won't take him back at the hospital where he was because he behaved there. His psychiatrist (laugh now) doesn't believe there is anything wrong with him, in spite of the hospital diagnosis, other than "anxiety." He is physically and verbally aggressive, but calms down around professionals. He does go to Day Treatment, which his psychiatrist doesn't feel he needs. ALso, he does not act out there. They think she's stark raving nuts, I'm sure, when she says he is so aggressive. There is a long waiting list to see any other psychiatrist and she has begged and pleaded, but nobody will take him before the next free appointment they have. He has a CPS social worker, but they never see him acting out so they do nothing. She taped him having a fit and is going to sit in court tomorrow until the Judge will see her. She has the tape. The Judge has thus far done nothing. She can't get respite. She is going insane. Besides going with her and supporting her, does anyone have any suggestions what is left to do? My friend is about to lose her mind as is her spouse. She has four other kids (one other difficult child, his biological sister). Quick background: They were adopted at age 1 and 2, and their birthmother abused drugs and has bipolar. But nobody will diagnose him with bipolar. They keep giving him antidepressants and stims, which make him worse, but right now he isn't on anything. His last medication was straterra. The psychiatrist refuses to put him on a mood stabilizer. I have never heard of somebody trying so hard to get help and getting nowhere and I am at a loss what to tell her to do. So if you have any suggestions please let me know.
    In Wisconsin you are NOT allowed to give up your parental rates to get your child help. You have to keep your minor child with you. Help?
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2009
  2. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Gosh MWM - I wish I had advice. I know Nana Searching was from WI and I seem to recall she had a simply *awful* time trying to get help for her grandson.

    I think your friend is on the right track taping this stuff.

    Will police transport him to hospital? Even if it's the one where he honeymooned... squeaky wheel and all that. With some video evidence of what she's dealing with-, maybe that would help?

    Wish I had a flash of brilliance here. Any chance of them moving over the state line to IL? While it's a wasteland in terms of services for the daughter population, they do have pretty decent state programs for MI kiddos.

    Glad you're there to support her.
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    They did transfer him to the hospital last time, but they won't do it now. This is even after he told one of the cops, "Go ahead and shoot me you m***************." I kid you not. It happened yesterday or today and the cop didn't hardly blink. They are getting used to being called to her house and seem immune to his ravings now, no matter WHAT he says.
  4. WSM

    WSM New Member

    OMG, this is our story exactly, down to the 5 kids, and our difficult child having a psychotic BiPolar (BP) mother and my husband getting custody at age 3.

    "...They won't take him back at the hospital where he was because he behaved there. His psychiatrist (laugh now) doesn't believe there is anything wrong with him, in spite of the hospital diagnosis, other than "anxiety." He is physically and verbally aggressive, but calms down around professionals. He does go to Day Treatment, which his psychiatrist doesn't feel he needs. ALso, he does not act out there. They think she's stark raving nuts..."

    This is EXACTLY what we face. We are in FL. Ours isn't physically aggressive, he's covertly aggressive, sneaky, hostile, maliciously mean--and then plays innocent wounded puppy dog.

    Every fricking body outside our close family and friends thinks it's us.

    We too have been everywhere, psychiatristists, therapists, counsellors, hospitals, universities, military schools, therapeutic schools (they wouldn't take him, said their program would 'frustrate him', we think they were afraid of his constant abuse allegations), doctors, you name it, we've tried it--since he was FOUR. We can't even get him on medications, we tried THREE child psychiatrists, none would do it.

    It's like we are no longer trying to help, only to contain the unpleasantness, to save ourselves and our property, to survive reasonably intact until he's old enough to send on his own. We are withdrawing and replacing our affection with cameras and alarms and restrictions and constant surveillance. This isn't good. But we don't know what more to do...and we are well educated people living in a sophisticated metro area with decent insurance and family resources (altho I think in some cases having insurance is not so good).

    We aren't happy with how we are handling this, but we aren't getting help--in fact all we get is blamed, and we can't live forever being stressed and angry and in constant war.

    I hope someone has the answer.
  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I'm afraid the mother is going to lose it if she doesn't get a break from this kid. He doesn't sleep. It's 24/7 defiance, threats and sometimes acting on threats.
  6. Janna

    Janna New Member

    The only thing I can think of, seriously MWM, is surveillance.

    Not a 10 minute tape of a tantrum. Like, 3 days worth of stuff. All of it, 24 hours, all the time, everything that goes on. Put up a few cameras in different rooms, and not even tell the kid.

    What a horrible situation. I've never been in a place where nobody else really sees issues with D. Truthfully, from someone that hasn't really dealt with that, I can see why (don't attack me) other people would think she's crazy. I mean, if I sent D to school and stuff and nobody saw anything, LOL - like, what would you say when it's ONLY the parent?

    Not to accuse her...just sayin'. Maybe I should be glad D acts up in school? Aye, aye.

    Yeah, I'd be running the videos.
  7. WSM

    WSM New Member

    How old is he? (or did you say).

    Ours only sleeps about 4 hours a night, sometimes less, sometimes more. We have alarms on his room. We have to sleep.

    I'm so sorry your friend is dealing with this. The wilderness weekend costs $700 if you aren't going to the military school. It worked, because we told him you can live like that forever if you don't straighten up.

    It was LOVELY having a weekend without him. We were different people. I can cry thinking how nice it was.

    Every summer I take the kids on vacation to my family up north and hubby gets 10 days free. I don't ever get time away from this kid, except that hubby does most of the interaction with him and takes responsibility for dealing with him, so it's tolerable.

    I don't know what can be done.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Janna, the cops have seen it. He even baited a cop to shoot him. The cops just don't care.
    WSM...he is only seven years old.
  9. WSM

    WSM New Member

    I pretty much envy people whose kids act up in school. Ours doesn't, he's polite and inquisitive and sweet.

    Well, he does act up in school. He took weapons 4 times, wrote how he wished his father was dead in a essay paper (just a line or two in the middle of innocuous stuff, like he was testing to see if anyone would notice), took his 6 year old sister off campus to a candy store, shook down at least one kid they know of (I know of 3 incidents) for $20 (the kid gave him the money because he felt sorry for difficult child), never did homework, have his agenda, wear his uniform, but...

    ...and here's the kicker...

    ...but the school actually told my husband this month that THEY never had any trouble with him and don't understand why we put him in military school.

    "What about the 3 times you had him arrested?" Oh yeah, well, the counsellor didn't know too much about that. The principal kept it hush hush.

    difficult child is so quiet and so helpful and so smart (his test scores are great) and so polite and seems to like everyone and everyone seems to like him. difficult child says he's being abused, that would explain why he's so withdrawn sometimes. difficult child said his stepmother (me) pushed him on the ground and jumped on his back 3 times, then dragged him by his hair. It is kind of puzzling about how the two forensic doctors found no evidence of abuse, not a bruise, or tenderness or swelling or internal bleeding and reported that difficult child has psychiatric issues, and the fact that he reported this abuse as he was being confronted for the 4th time for weapons in school was suspicious. But he's suuuuuuch a nice boy, so polite and so bright.

    Yes, maybe he took weapons to school, but he says they were planted on him, he says his stepmother 'wants him out of the house' and maybe his stepbrothers did it. Of course no one else's fingerprints were on the weapons, just his...but everyone else was just smart enough to wipe the weapon clean before they planted it on him, maybe. Such a nice little boy, whose big brown eyes fill with tears and little lip quivers in fear could not have possibly done it.

    They never have ANY trouble with him (despite the fact that he threw away all his text books, sabotaged his science and literature project, misappropriated lunch money, etc...)

    Everyone likes him, it must be the parents.

    Poor little boy.

    What do you do? It would be wonderful if he got caught vandalizing the school instead of our house, got caught stealing their property instead of ours, or had a tantrum in the classroom or accused a teacher of mistreating him.

    Bet they'd get him help right quick then.
  10. WSM

    WSM New Member

    Ours started the really outrageous stuff at 8 and a half. Seven is so young, it's scary. If he's learned that he can manipulate people by making them feel sorry for him, it's a horrible thing to cope with.

    Our son learned it by accident. A lunch lady patted him on the head. He's a drama queen and apparently wanted attention, so he screamed, 'Ouch'. He also has attachment disorder and doesn't like to be touched.

    The lunch lady recoiled: what had she done? Suddenly he had power. He said it hurt his head. "Why", because I have a bump there. "Why?" Because my dad hits me.

    Suddenly there was a lot of excitement, he was pulled into the nurses office, examined, the cops were called, the principal, everyone talked to him in sympathetic, encouraging reassuring voices, CPS came out. Didn't find a bump. He admitted he made it up. They all lost interest. He lost power.

    A month later an interesting thing happened: CPS came to the house for a follow up visit. He told them right in front of me and everyone else in the family that I was the one who put the bump on his head. CPS was really skeptical, this was the third story, no bump, clearly a lie. THe CPS officer was coincidentally the same one who investigated him at age three when he was with his psycho mother.

    He admitted that he wanted to get us arrested so my oldest son, then 14, would take care of him. Oldest son was more fun.

    Since then, difficult child has been tireless in telling people how abused he is. It's gotten him money, friends, invitations to Disney World, once got him kidnapped (the story is on this site somewhere), got him put in afterschool care and his sister thrown out, once got him out of being arrested, gets authority figures to bend the rules for him, and gets him endless attention, sympathy and respect.

    It's worth his while to put the effort into behaving outside the house and venting his rage inside the family. And it's been hell for us.

    I'm sorry your friend's little boy seems to have learned this how rewarding this behavior is. He's been able to fool every teacher and school administrator, and many (not all of his therapists). The one therapist who was least fooled was a mother of five, most of the kids adopted or stepkids, one of them grown up to be a sociopath. She had his number. But we could only see her for 3 months, she only did initial referrals.

    I want you to know that there are other kids out there like this. THey learn the lingo and how to manipulate therapists. I don't think your friend is in any way responsible. I think a lot of times, not all, but a lot of times, this is what the childhood of a sociopath looks like.

    Part of the problem is even when they are repeat felons like our difficult child there is no place to put them, no one knows what to do. They don't want to do medications, because of the growing brain and liability. Talk therapy doesn't work when kids don't have a certain level of emotional intelligence and vocabulary. They can't take them out of the home because where to put them? Foster care? It's over burdened and besides not a babysitting service? It's for kids who are effectively orphaned by imprisoned or addicted or mentally ill or abusive parents. Mental health facilities? They can't spend 11 years there. Programs and special schools? The few spaces and scarce funds are better spent on kids who are a social problem, not ones who know how to behave themselves.

    And there's always the liability problem with any kind of residential care or treatment, how are they going to keep this little one safe from the bigger, more sick, aggressive or predatory kids?

    There's almost nothing for kids under twelve, and then still not much, at least in our state until about 14. But then again, the spaces are reserved for kids who act out overtly. The ones where the problem is obvious.
  11. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Anyone who reads the news knows that young children are quite capable of horrible behaviors. I do not understand why no one will help this poor mother. I agree with the use of survalience and locks. All the others in the house need to be able to get into a room and lock the door so this kid cannot get to them when he is raging. Honestly if this family isn't going to be able to get any help when there is a crisis, they might have to consider revoking the adoption. As this child grows it is going to be harder and harder to protect themselves and the other child(ren) -RM
  12. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    If this psychiatrist is incompetent, why doesn't she find another? Seems this would be the first step in getting him stabilized, e.g., appropriate medications.
  13. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts


    Are you not close to Marshfield? Can you not check into the clinic there? (mods, feel free to edit if necessary).

    I transported wm, once, by myself (not the most safe situation) & got him settled into ER. Once there I promised to leave & had no problem with the charges that were being threatened to be pressed by psychiatric SW if I walked out the door. I kept telling her I needed respite.

    This was before I sought the help we have here.
  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    He's on the waiting list for other psychiatrists. They won't see him ahead of the others on the waiting lists. She has called begging to be seen, saying it's an emergency. Even after the hospitalization, which her incompetent psychiatrist FINALLY and reluctantly approved, she couldn't go to anyone else. They all consider him as having a psychiatrist. It's nuts. Also, their insurance is restrictive so, as per their adoption agreement, he is on Medicaid, further restricting who will see her.
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Linda, her psychiatrist is from Marshfield. He is the same psychiatrist my son had. There are only two there and at this time both are horrible.
  16. Stella

    Stella New Member

    I can't believe that nobody will help your friend. How is any human being meant to cope with that??? My difficult child has no behavioural problems in school at all. They cannot believe the behaviours I describe at home. I truly believe in her case its because she doesn't have the trigger of "being bored". The whole day is structured and she thrives on routine. I am absolutely dreading her going to secondary school though which will be a whole different kettle of fish unless I get things under control now!

    I have sworn to myself that if she is still terrorising me at 18 that I am buying a one way ticket to some exotic, sunny country and never coming back!! I am a person toooooo!!!:D
  17. Sheila

    Sheila Moderator

    If possible, I'd pay out-of-pocket if it meant him getting stabilized.

    Wish I had something better to offer but....
  18. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    They simply don't have the money to do it so it's not on the table. They've already spent a mint on not only him but his sister, who is also very disturbed (different story), and they are tapped out. Family has helped, but they are also tapped out. And paying money won't get you in faster.
    I'm going to try to use the connections I have seen here. Maybe they will help. I so value all of you for bothering to respond. These kids are dear to me.
  19. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    If you are close enough to her? Why don't you take him for a weekend? I'm not being sarcastic either.

    When Dude was 7 - before we got with the agency, and I was a new-single mom with no resources I thought I would go out of my mind. Dude's behaviors have been rivaled by very few I've ever met. Someone FINALLY saw that if I didn't get a mental break, be allowed to act out a little myself I would crack. If I cracked then I became EVERYONE's problem because there would BE NO ONE to take care of Dude and then he WOULD become THEIR problem.

    I wrote the governor. I told them that I had begged for help. FROM EVERYWHERE. That I had managed to get myself and son into counseling, but due to an abusive marriage, and no family around due to being in hiding through a local DV shelter - I had no one. I needed help. Then I stated that I was NOT getting help in school. The sent him home daily and I lost my job. I told him that I had taken him to the psychiatric hospital - and upon trying to take him clothes and toothbrush etc....I was pulled for driving in a car with no tags, and now faced a 2,500 fine. I told the Governor at that time - that I was WILLING and wanted to do everything possible to GET BOTH OF US HELP....but no one seemed to help. Mental health had 23 year old interns that had NO idea what a life like ours was about - I had NO insurance, and then I added the BOOM....
    I told him that I had kept meticulous records on dates, times and people I spoke with all along the trail of BEGGING for help. And that some day - when my son (who didn't get help he needed) went berzerk and harmed another child - maybe even his child or the child of someone he knew - who knows.....that I would sit on the statehouse steps with my notebook and show EVERY single reporter how I tried to get help and kept getting turned down over the last years.

    -I got a letter - inviting me to an interview - to get help with the agency we're now with. I had to wait a year - but in the mean time - I got MORE help and names from the agency to deal with Dude while we waited for help.

    MAYBE - that's what this has come to for her and this little boy who needs help. As far as a doctor wanting money and them being strapped? Yeah - I know - but I finally found one that WOULD see us and let me pay back a little at a time - and DID help keep Dude stable until we got in to see a doctor that would take medicaid.

    Past that? I'd move -
  20. MyHrt31

    MyHrt31 New Member

    Just bumping this back to the top for an update. I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for your friend. Don't quote me on this but I believe that in the Bipolar Child book, there was a mention of children acting normal in public but having rages at home. My son is the complete opposite. He acts up more when we are out in public than he does at home. The more people that are around, the more he wants my attention. He'll curse, scream, hit, do whatever he can to get my attention. I mostly deal with the "you have spoiled your kid, why don't you give him a good spanking because that is all he needs" look. He acts up when he is at school and the more children that are in the class, the more hyper, aggressive, and irritable he becomes. I'm not sure what to make of all of it. I hate bringing him in public because of the way he acts. What I'm trying to say is that I experience the extreme opposite of your friends situation and I am wishing her the best. I would definitely say she needs to keep cameras everywhere to catch as much "evidence" as she can to prove to others that she is not lying (which she shouldn't have to do). I hope she knows what a wonderful friend she has in you because I honestly have no one who would stand by my side and try to help me when I need. Please keep us updated. I apologize in advance if I've missed a thread with the update somewhere along the way :)