What do YOU do?

[witzend]

I am writing this in follow up to my post about L getting caught making out with boyfriend's best friend, and boyfriend hitting her, and all of the aftermath that went with that. All of 3 days ago.

Let me preface this by saying that I think that L is far more in need of mental health care than I had been willing to look at lately. And, that I don't know that I am asking for specific advice, I really want to know what you ladies would do in this situation. Right now I feel like there is nothing I can or should do. At least not pro-actively.

I saw that L was on her facebook account today. I PM'd her "How are you doing?" Her reply was, "Pretty good. boyfriend been non-stop apologizing and says he'll do whatever it takes to make up for his behavior and get our relationship back on track. I'm going to go see him and talk to him tonight."

husband and I have no doubt that she will be back with him by tomorrow. Is there anything you would do or say? Or would you just save your breath and your time?

 

[goldenguru]

Your daughter sounds like she is caught in the web of domestic violence. I would suggest she contact a woman's shelter that deals specifically with domestic violence. If she doesn't already have mental health issues, she will if she stays too long with an abuser.

I might suggest uploading some simple information about the cycle of abuse - or 'the power and control wheel'. I would calmly tell her what your concerns are specifically -

Even if she was 'making out' with another guy - doesn't give the boyfriend a right to hit her. EVER.

 

[standswithcourage]

Oh and another thing - if my husband found out someone ever hit our daughter - he would probably go to prison for murder!

 

[DammitJanet]

I dont think this is so much about the hitting issue. I think its more about the fact that she seems willing to keep staying with a guy who tells her point blank that he is not going to put her needs, wishes and desires into any sort of place on his priority list. The question is why does she keep doing this?

My assumption is that L is a pretty attractive 26 year old. Surely she could have her pick of the litter if she can snag this guy. What keeps her going back to him?

 

[witzend]

Janet, I agree it's about her continuing with this man who doesn't love her at all. I think it has to do with him having a nice house and several cars. I think in a really twisted way she likes that he won't commit because then she really doesn't have to commit in any real way, either. But mostly, it's about his "things".

I was thinking about it this afternoon, though. She hears what she wants to hear. It's possible that he may be saying "I'm sorry" and that it doesn't mean anything other than he's sorry and he is done with her. Whether she's misreading him or if she's going back to him, her thinking is flawed.

And I agree, it doesn't matter what she did, he doesn't get to hit her. I'll file a report on him myself if he ever does it again.

 

[everywoman]

You would be wasting your breath if you said anything. And alienating L further. She wants this to work because she sees it as her only option. She has no education. She has no marketable skills. Getting those would be such hard work! I've told you before she reminds me of my biomom. Biomom spent years and years with guys like boyfriend. L will be forced to change when she is forced to change. The most you can do is pray boyfriend is finally done and wants to end it. Then maybe that will be the force she needs to find herself.

 

[hearts and roses]

I agree with what EW said. Many hugs to you, Witz. It is difficult to remain silent when you have so much to say.

 

[susiestar]

I would not say or do anything. There is nothing you CAN do. Sadly, her father programmed her to behave this way. The way he treated you in the divorce and after have proven to her that you have no power. Her father raised her with all the privileges, and at the time most young people are learning how to handle bills, payments, the basics of living a life, her dad put hobbles on her. he paid all of her bills for those young 20's years when you learn that stuff.

The fact that her dad was WILLING to pay those bills told her she couldn't do anything, or be independent. NOw he has cut her off. He could have warned her he would end the money teat for twenty years and it still would not make her in any way independent. She doesn't feel she can support herself and have nice things. She isn't willing to do the entry level jobs and menial work that they require. She wasn't ever given a view of those as worthwhile or necessary things to do. So why would she?

I am not sure what he said, what he meant, what she said or meant. I know this situation is a train wreck waiting to happen. I know you love her very much. But anything you do will be "wrong" in her eyes and/or she will blame you for whatever if you are any way involved.

She needs to work this out. If there are signs of further abuse (assuming the guy takes her back) then I would yank her out of there if at all possible. I would press charges also if that happens.

Her dad helped create this, with his actions and his intent to force you out of her life. You have to let him take the responsibility for this. If you can listen noncommittally when she calls, maybe offer suggestions for her dad IF he calls you, that will be all you can do.

I hope she develops a better sense of self and a sense of purpose. I also hope that she is safe.

 

[everywoman]

Susie, you said exactly what I tried to say---only better.

 

[Hound dog]

Witz

I wouldn't say or do anything........uh maybe just bob your head and say "That's nice dear." or some such.

At this point, she's not ready to listen, not ready to see the truth. Her thinking may be skewed. Very possible. She may be one who "enjoys the chase". Penty of men do this..........but there are women who do it too. Sort of a subconcious thing. They just got to have them while the "chase is on" but once they have them.....they don't know what to do with them.

This is something she's going to have to figure out on her own for the most part. If she comes out and asks you.....you might be able to steer her into a better position to figure it out......but otherwise, I'd leave it alone.

If she defends either of their positions....she'll just dig in her heels. And it will take longer for her to see that she's getting nowhere.

I look at Nichole and boyfriend, and I wonder what in the world makes her want to be with him. But I keep my mouth shut unless she specifically asks my opinion. (then I word it carefully)

It took me more than 15 yrs to really get that husband is incapable of truly loving another person, that the universe is supposed to revolved solely around him. I listened to what others told me, but I didn't hear them. It wasn't even that I thought I could change him. I just loved him and thought that would be enough.

I keep that in mind when dealing with Nichole and boyfriend. Helps me hold my tongue and to stop wanting to shake some sense into her.

((hugs))

 

[witzend]

Thanks, ladies. We're all on the same wavelength. There's nothing I can say or do, and I have absolutely gone through all of the horrible and not so horrible possibilities in the past few days. None of it will be my fault or my doing. I just have to wait and see. As Pooh would say. "Wait. Wait. Wait. (I'm waiting.)"

 

[goldenguru]

Witz - I have to respectfully disagree with a good portion of the advice you received above.

Your daughter was HIT by a man. That is abuse plain and simple. And to suggest that she stays because 'she has no other choices' is precisely the reason most women stay in abusive relationships. Hitting her is physical abuse. Telling her that he doesn't love her, won't consider her needs, etc. is emotional abuse. Abuse is sort of like drug abuse. What you actually 'see' is only the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

Women who are battered become disoriented and confused. It is an abusers best tool.

Do you have to say anything? No. But, silence is consent. And I know you do not consent of her boyfriend hitting her.

Respectfully.

 

[Nomad]

Your daughter is 26?
This is tragic...my heart goes out to her and also to YOU.
I tend to agree with GG.
There is little you can do. She is an adult. However, this man's behavior is UNACCEPTABLE and your daughter should be made aware of it. She should know that she is worth more than this...is now and always will be, no matter what. If she doesn't want to hear it...so be it. It should be said.
You can provide her with literature and resources. You can (and probably should( provide her with a brief bit of advice...chances are she doesn't really want to hear it. Let her know that you do not approve and never will.
Of course, if she asks for advice, I would gladly provide it and do so more than "briefly."
I would also let her know that you would always be willling to provide your home for emergency/temporary shelter (I don't know your situation...she's not living with you, correct?). You might also give her the number of a crisis hotline and let her know that it is important that she get herself to a safe spot whether it is your home or another in a time of crisis.
However, if she has literature and resources in her possession, it would be up to her to make use of them.
Keep an extra copy in your possession, in case she tosses the information and then later asks for it again.
Don't give her a speech...but try to get the message and materials to her briefly and efficiently.
Keep a good thought that she will make the right decision (s) at some point.
Perhaps the best you can do at this point, is
1) Give her materials to help herself; speak with her briefly, hope that she reads the materials...
2) Put the greater focus/energy on YOURSELF and your good mental, physical and spiritual health and perhaps she will see your healthy energy and happiness as an inspiration and guiding light.
God Bless.
aaf

 

[Star*]

I actually like Stands' idea - and I'm serious. If I had it to do over again. I wouldn't have told my Dad "No Dad - PLEASE don't come here and hurt him." ----Nope, I would have kept my mouth shut and let my Dad do what Daddys do to pieces of dirt who lay hands on their little girls.

Back then I would have spouted - Two wrongs don't make a right - or
Let the law handle it or the Pen is mightier than the sword, or turn the other cheek. But after what I lived through? I think if my daughters Father left the house to go punch that jerk in the eye? I'd let him. I'd just make sure he had an alibi and there were no witnesses.

I don't think it will make L RUN to her boyfriend either. I think it will let her know that her Dad won't tolerate any behavior like that from that lowrent scum.

AND......the beauty of it all? YOU didn't say a word.......and Daddy did what Daddy's do.

Not the most popular idea - but I'm telling you - from a mans point of view - it's not an unpopular one either.

If I were close I swear I'd pop him myself. Jerk. maybe twice

 

[Shari]

I would tell your daughter that you have serious concerns about her and her relationship, and leave it at that. Anytime she cries to yu or bring it up, reiterate the statement, or say "you know how I feel, but I'll keep it to myself". If she wants to hear them, she'll ask. If she doesn't, she won't.

I don't condone boyfriend hitting her. But I also don't condone her provoking him. And from what you've described, that exactly what she did. Two wrongs don't make a right, by any means, but she wanted a scene, and she got it. My apologies for feeling that way, but, it honest. Again, I don't condone either one of them.

I wonder if you might be able to talk to the boyfriend? If I were going to attempt to talk some sense into either one of them, it might be him. If he sees she's just around to "claim" his "stuff" that he obviously doesn't want to share, maybe he'd be more inclined to stop sharing.

Its tough, Witz. But that's my take and what I think I'd do.

 

[standswithcourage]

Star - You said it perfectly!!!! Myhusband always said if her hubby or anyone laid a hand on her he would let it be the last time and then they would have to find the body before they put him in jail! Hopefully that will not happen. I sympathize with Witz - it is a hard place to be - daughters can disguise the ugly truth right before our eyes because they dont want us to see what they put up with - my daughter is like that - it is hard to sit back and say nothing but right now you saying something might push her honesty away - I like Nomads advice on having a plan - also try to remain calm and dont let it take over you!

 

[jbrain]

Well, if she is anything like my difficult child 1 she might just enjoy all the drama with boyfriend. I personally don't think there is anything you can do or say that will change anything, Witz and I think it is okay for you to let it alone. My difficult child didn't decide she wanted something different til she had her baby--then she had someone she loved more than anything and boyfriend didn't stand a chance of competing with the new baby. She wouldn't tolerate his temper anymore when she was afraid he would hurt the baby.

I guess my advice would be if it helps you or makes you feel any better to advise her about domestic abuse, etc. then you should do that. If it is less stressful for you to let her alone then do that. Anything you do or say should be because it helps you because I'm about 100 percent positive it won't help her.

Sorry to be such a cynic....

Jane

 

[Nomad]

I like the idea of turning Star lose on the guy! LMBO!!!!!Okay, I digress...
I absolutely, positively, completely and totally would NOT NOT NOT advocate a husband/father threatening murder or using physical force. HOWEVER, somehow putting the fear of G-d into the guy, may not be a bad idea. I see the advantages here. When our difficult child went through something similar (pushing/shoving) our husband implied something and had an expression on him that would make a person faint. To this day, the guy is terrified to be around husband, is hesitant to be around difficult child and says he "knows what husband would do to him if there were further problems." It's kinda weird...cause nothing happened. All guilt on his part. It's all so unfortunate that folks just can't make better choices on their own or at least seek "real" help on their own 'cause they don't wish to hurt others. Another thing...quietly give this some thought Witz...what is his achilles heel? You should knows this and file it away for further reference. They don't call me "sly boots" for nothing. LOLOLOL LMBO!

Anyway.... As hard as it is to say, it really is her call. You can provide a little assist...but it's still her (Your daughter's) call, i'm sorry to say. Hang in there.

 

[Hound dog]

I'm betting witz made it clear to L that boyfriend's hitting her was unacceptable behavior. And she did say she'd turn him in for it if there was a 2nd time.

That is not contributing to L staying in an abusive relationship. That, as a mother, is about all she can really do. L is an adult making her own decisions.

It's frustrating as hades. I know cuz I live it daily with Nichole. Nichole has read the literature. She knows where the domestic violence shelter is. She knows how boyfriend treats her is wrong. And believe me she knows I don't condone it. boyfriend still isn't allowed past my front door.

All I can do is when she asks me is to point out to her his behavior is abusive and she doesn't deserve to be treated that way, nor should Aubrey be exposed to it. She's beginning to listen. So I pray that she'll make the break soon.

Now the last time boyfriend got physical with Nichole I came mighty close to beating the snot out of him. The only thing that stopped me was Aubrey. I'm vicious when my temper is triggered and literally see red. Plus the coward ran from me.

When Aubrey told me Daddy hit Mommy I had Nichole denying it and she had nor marks to go by. Or I'd have been over there kicking his arse and husband would've been bailing me out of jail. The jerk would've had a swift lesson in what a strong woman doesn't put up with.

But in hindsight......I dunno. I will say when I came so close to kicking his arse the first time it got Nichole's attention. When I refused to allow him in my home as long as he is unable to treat my daughter with respect, it got her attention.

Yet, still.......she's with him. Planning on moving in with him. And lord........I'm sure I'll be burning up the board posting if he actually does move in with her.

My point is.........a victim will be a victim until they reach the point where they are fed up with the behavior. It's sort of like drugs in a way. At some point she has to realize she doesn't deserve to be treated like dung on his shoe.

 

[witzend]

Unfortunately her dad is a domestic relations attorney so he knows how quickly he would lose his license and everything he had if he hit the guy. I'm really waiting to see what the result of L & boyfriend's talk is.

First, she will never ever admit that there is anything wrong with her relationship with boyfriend. Remember, it wasn't her that called her dad, it was boyfriend that called him. She wouldn't have told a soul, or if she had, it would be much later on with a very well crafted story. She won't ever come to anyone with a problem because she sees that as admitting failure. Her dad used to call her "Little Miss Can't Be Wrong", after the song, and it's not just an accurate description, it's an obsession.

I told her the last time that he threw her out that she was much better than that, that it was time for her to figure out how to take care of herself in a way that would never her leave her at the mercy of a man who doesn't want to share his life with her. She thanked me and told me I was so sweet to believe in her and immediately started dating a bunch of losers on match.com.

I will take the earliest opportunity to talk to her about the realities of life when you have a degenerative disease like we do. She may even find a man who wants to share his life with her, but without being married and a real commitment, if he gets hit by a car tomorrow, she is out on the street with nothing. She needs a skill that doesn't leave her at someone else's mercy, and she's perfectly capable of it. As far as I'm concerned, him kicking her out or hitting her is the same as him dropping dead. It leaves L with nothing and nowhere to go. If her dad knows that she is going back, he must be furious. I'll let him deal with the straight in the eye talk about how little she is making of herself. I'll go with the building up.

One last thought is that her sister, who would NEVER put up with this and will give her the straight talk, is a source I might reach out to. L is such a liar, everyone must be getting a different story. I think we need to work together on this. Knowledge is key to keeping her from weaving a story that lets her lie to herself about what this is.