What Do You Think?

[Hound dog]

Clear up until katie moved into the apartment..............katie and the kids were always talking M this and M that. Almost to the point where I wanted to put my hand over their mouths so I wouldn't have to hear it anymore. Now? He's not been mentioned.

Nothing about M not coming to the family dinner. Nothing about M missing the easter egg hunt. Nothing about how wonderfully M is doing with his new job. Nothing about missing M.

Nothing.

Which stands out as ODD when they drove us nuts with it before. Even if I talk to them on the phone in Mo it was always M this and M that. Enough to gag a person.

Yet supposedly at the shelters the boys threw such humongous tantrums over their dad being on the men's side that shelter staff broke the rules and let the boys sleep with him. What about all the stories about how especially the boys couldn't survive without their dad?

Hmmm. Is it just me or is that like making anyone else do a wth? easy child and Nichole are stumped too.

We've been careful to be polite. There have been no words. No reason for them to feel they can't/shouldn't talk about him as far as we're concerned.

 

[donna723]

Do you think he might have taken off? If he had lost his job and couldn't pay the child support and he was afraid of going to jail? If he finally got it through his head that he wouldn't be allowed to sneak in to the apartment with Katie and the kids? This kind of leaves him all on his own.

 

[Hound dog]

Well, thought that might be the case. But he called last night looking for her.......using her cell phone, the one she gets free mins on. So I don't think so.

 

[KTMom91]

Maybe they were all trying to convince themselves that he was so wonderful?

 

[donna723]

Could he have taken her cell phone? You would think, if they had been seeing him, that one of the kids would have let it slip that they were going to your house yesterday for Easter dinner.

 

[1905]

He's always been around, maybe now that he's not, they're seeing how great it is without him. Sometimes when my husband has to work late, or early, I'm secretly happy that I have some time alone. (sshh!)

 

[Hound dog]

Personally.........I'm sort of wondering if singing M's praises weren't for M's benefit......perhaps to appease him in some way?

Or heck......maybe it was supposed to make him "look good" in my eyes........although while I could buy that as far as katie doing it, I can't really believe they got the kids in on it. Because the way they are, they'd have let it slip if it were just for my benefit.

It's not that I think it's a bad thing......it's just the change is sooooo abrupt it's weird. And it might be a combo of appeasing M and them realizing that when he's not around.....it's better. I so hope the latter is true.

Donna he knew she came to Easter dinner, he was just seeing if she was still here. I don't know if he took her phone or if she gave it to him. Either one is possible.

She ran into a snag with getting her drivers license switched over to ohio. Idiot DMV lady told her she had to retake both the written and drivers part of the test. Bull. She is only required to take the written and shouldn't have to take that as her original license was issued here. But the woman has her totally messed up now as she'd only issue her a state ID card..........which means she now has to go through the whole process again. grr. Now I know katie's license was valid.......and I sure don't see how she could have any violations without a car to drive. But since she has major confrontation issues........she didn't push when the woman refused to look it up for her. ugh Katie couldn't cash the disability checks without a state ID/license.

Which means M is in the same situation. Unless his work is cashing his checks for him.........if he's even still working. She's not even mentioned that anymore, which in the past means the job is gone. If he's not working, she may have given it to him because he gets so many minutes per month free on it. He could have taken it for the same reason. If he took it though she can report it stolen and service will be cut off.

LOL upallnight..........I'd give my left arm for some time alone.

 

[dashcat]

I find that in the case of my difficult child, she has an unusual ability to simply detach. (wish I could learn a bit of this lol) If she's decided to detach (and it has to be HER and not circumstances), it's almost as if the person never existed.

It could be - like the others said - the absence of M is bringing them peace and - being difficult children, they can simply disengage.

What I do find strange is that they seem not to be seeing him outside the apt...apparently did not expect him to be included in the dinner, etc. The M you described would have certainly expected to be included, shown up anyway, or called and whined or something. He must be detaching, too, or you'd be hearing from him.

In any case, it appears to be a good thing!
Dash

 

[DDD]

Boy, if it's not one mystery it's another. Guess if they seem ok then there's no major upheaval going on. That sounds positive. It is curious. DDD

 

[busywend]

Have you asked the kids how come they do not mention M anymore? I wonder if they were told not to mention him at all - in fear they will slip that he is around when he shouldn't be?

 

[Hound dog]

I've not yet asked why M is not being mentioned. Although I know sooner or later my curiosity will get the better of me and I'll ask. lol

Possible she's told them not to mention him at all........but you'd have to know both Alex and Evan to know there is no way for that to work. Kayla could manage it. But no way with the boys. Stuff comes pouring out of their mouths all the time. Which is why Alex's teacher knows everything about what is going on. (I asked her about it at the award ceremony) She is the reason I'm not too worried about what is currently going on in the household......as Alex blabs everything with no thought as to what he's saying ect and his teacher would call cps in a heartbeat if she thought it was needed.

The boys are both like very young toddlers. If you told them not to say something.......they'd go tell the very person you told not to say it to and add mommy said not to tell. lol

I don't know what katie's plans are concerning M. I doubt seriously the apartments will bend the rules and let him in with the felony as it's a HUD rule, not just theirs. Katie got thrown out from the same complex 10 yrs ago for trying to sneak him in.......she knows if she tries she'll be found out and reported. This time it doesn't seem to phase her a bit he's not there. I've never seen her so happy. I've never seen her so socially engaging. I've never seen her so actively looking for parenting guidance ect. She was even watching us cook......taking note of everything we did. She was thrilled when Nichole invited her to the girl's makeover day before the wedding reception. And I noticed yesterday that she is no longer standing in the "victim" don't notice me posture. I've not seen her acting this way since she was a kid. Seriously. It's like she suddenly turned back into the old katie I knew and loved.

And I don't know what to think about that either. She didn't do that the last time she was here. Last time.........she was an empty shell. No social engagement, even with the kids. No desire to learn.....unless given no choice. Nothing. She was so totally not herself back then that I didn't know what to make of it. She behaved the same way around M pretty much now too.

I'm getting a teeny glimmer of hope. But I'm too leery of letting it develop into anything. She's been with M too long. And I know due to her non confrontational issues, it might not take much for him to mess up any progress that is made. It will depend on if and how much she wants him out of her life.

I'm leery of even approaching that subject with her for fear of jinxing it.

As for M........katie has been his free ride for too long. I'm having real trouble he's going to leave the picture without a fight. It's just not his style. While I do think if he is finally made to see the free ride is over that he will move on to his next victim.......there will be a rough road ahead before that would happen.

 

[donna723]

I'm really hoping that Katie is starting to see the light. If M was abusive and controlling, and it sounds like he was, maybe without him around, she's starting to relax and get some of her self-confidence back. If she was content to stay meekly in the background before and let M do most of the "parenting" and interaction with the kids, maybe she's starting to see a glimmer of hope now too that she CAN do this! I think it's a very good sign that she's so eager to learn how to handle the children and how to cook and take care of her own home. Everything she learns is one more small step towards her independence from him. I'm just praying that they don't mess this up!

 

[Star*]

Nope.........

My Auntie Star radar is off the chart here. And this is to me.....typical KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT behavior. As in -

Daddy is sneaking around, and we are not to talk about him AT ALL.

Daddy has been around, and we are not to SLIP UP and talk about it at all.

Daddy this, daddy that - and don't you dare breath a word of it. AT ALL.

He's around.....he's been in the house.....he's there more than he should be and it's a game.....the children have been told to keep their mouth shut.

I'd bet money on it.

Know why I think this? Because this is exactly what my X would have told Dude when he wasn't supposed to be around. EXACTLY.

This is Don't mention Daddy's name to anyone. And it's easy to find out Nana ------You know which one is a blabber mouth for a toy and a McDonalds Happy meal. Just get him alone, and ask.

 

[HaoZi]

Hmm... I was also wondering if it's been heavily impressed on them not to mention M being around, but if she's pulling out of victim mode and actually starting to help herself, and the kids are improving, then maybe he really hasn't been around much. As you say he could easily muck this up for everyone if she doesn't totally have herself back and be willing to face him down when he does show up again. I know around here they do free self-defense classes for women, do they have anything there like it that she would be willing to do so she would feel more confident confronting him?

 

[Hound dog]

Ugh. Star you have a very good point. And I keep forgetting she has money now in which to bribe them with.

I guess I just have to hope that's not the case. Because honestly.......I'd rather not know if he's being slipped into the apartment. She was caught out before, she will be again if that is what the game is. Maybe it's a don't tell Nana deal because she believes I turned her into hud last time. Which I didn't even though I strongly suspected she'd been having him stay there. Neighbors turned her in. And maybe the about face with katie is also an act. Although acting has never been katie's forte.

As for the Easter dinner deal? I think I had an ah hah! moment. The silver platter. M knew he had it hidden among his clothing. He knew husband went through his stuff because husband also took back the duffle bag M had "borrowed" to put his clothes in.....and because I came right out and told katie we rebagged/boxed their things. husband could make two of M without trying. His size is intimidating, his voice is worse. Now I myself have never thought of husband in that way. It was bff's husband who first told me that and I laughed at him. He said it wasn't funny......he is scared of husband. But then again he is scared of me too. lol So guessing weasel M didn't want to chance facing husband's or my wrath with the attempt to steal the platter. Katie knows me, I go for the culprit.....so I wouldn't go through her to get to him, nor would I let husband. We'd confront him directly.

This is why I asked for other opinions. The no talking about M at all threw up red flags.....just I couldn't pin it down.

I hope it's not the case........but honestly it does make more sense than he just up and waltz out of their lives suddenly. bleh

 

[Star*]

I'm not saying SHE is the genius behind this master plan Hound.....I'm saying Daddy Warbucks here smells money....and he's got to figure out a way to GET his greedy, grimey little hands on it. This wreaks of - "Okay family here's what we have to do." I will blah blah blah and YOU yak yak yak and you kids can't say ONE word about me to ANYONE, NOT EVEN XYz or PDQ, or ABC. GOT it? (huddle, everyone hands in! Go team M) and then he gets everyone thinking the world is AGAINST HIM - keeping THEM apart - and he needs $$.

I would love to be wrong, I would LOVE for you to come and say "WAY OFF" Star - she kicked him to the curb, but after having lived with king of the turds for so long? I'm just not a trusting soul any more. I may not know much - but I know sneeky, *******, lying, manipulative men like I know how to blink for a loose eyelash.

I hope to goodness I'm wrong, but my radar is so tight on this one you could bounce that ass-teroid right off it. If there is MASTER manipulation going on? He's behind it, and if it has to be his BEST plan ever to get the kids' money, her trust, and back into their lives to mess it up? What better way than for HIM to play the poor, little victim here?

Well they won't let me stay wtih my wife, and my kids in OUR house - rotten so and so's - "So here's the plan. We'll show them we're a family, they can't keep us apart." And all the while? he couldn't care less if they were together or not. he just wants that cash, or rather he just doesnt' want to work and wants that cash. I bet if someone offered him cash to go away - he'd leave them alone and that easy money. Matter of fact I bet if she told him there was NO money coming in and that the SSI got turned down? But he STILL had to pay CS? I bet things would change. Someone should put a bug in his ear that SSI is going to be cut for Alex in June, and see how long he hangs around.

 

[dashcat]

Hound,
I can't help but think the kids would spill...somehow. my difficult child just WOULD NOT be able to keep a secret in (unless it was her secret!). I'm still baffled, but I think it's giving M wayyy too much credit to say he could silence them...
Dash

 

[1905]

I agree with Star... M has nothing to lose. Sad to say he doesn't care his kids and Katie have EVERYTHING to lose. He wants that money. I hope Katie can be strong, this is her best chance for a normal life. I hope she sees it.

 

[Hound dog]

Starbie, sad part is I agree with you too. I wish I didn't, but I do. I've seen it before. It's the same scenerio as last time......except for katie's new behavior. He used the whole "everyone is against our love" crud to get her to sneak him in last time. So I don't doubt that's probably what's going on this time. Alex will eventually slip. Seriously, he can't hold up the farce for long no matter what threat over his head or amount of bribery. So if suddenly katie is rarely available.......avoidance is an easy way to keep him from slipping.

This jerk is all about control and a free ride. He may be dumb as a box of rocks, but he's got street survival down pat. He is IT in his eyes, everyone else is a means to get what he wants.

The day we took the kids bikes over, while katie was very welcoming and chatty......she also couldn't get us out of the apartment fast enough. It threw up a red flag at the time. I didn't push it. I chose to ignore it. But I know M was upstairs hiding. Same thing he used to do before. So I don't think she even gave living without him a chance. ugh

I'd rather have you guys douse me with a reality check than let false hope bud. Hard to watch your kid and grandkids so totally controlled by someone that it overrides good sense.

 

[Star*]

Hound,

I think what everyone may not remember is that right now? HE has NO responsibilities like he had. NO yelling kids, NO one looking over his shoulder asking him if he's looking for a job - he has job washing dishes part time and having to have that job has made him mad, and he wants paid back for it. He figures he's OWED the money - so he's getting Katie to pay him back - he shouldn't have to pay Child support - So he's "doing" his part to keep up appearances so SHE and the kids can "get'' the apartment. Would bet you anything he's made her feel guilty HE has to sleep at a shelter while they sleep in a really nice condo.

However - He has a place to stay, food to eat, and doesn't have to worry WHERE his family is going to sleep, HOW to feed them, HOW to cloth them, HOW they're going to get to school, WHO is going to have to watch them. For him - life just got a WHOLE lot easier. He SEEs this, but he has to make SOMEONE feel bad for his new found fortune. So what does he do? He can sneak over to Katies, get money, have sex, sneak out make her and the kids feel bad for him - and you know and I know she will give him both - and then he's gone - back to his 20 hour a week job - where he does the bare minimum to get by - turns his check over jokingly to pay child support - and then GOES BACK TO KATIE - to get it back.

This must seem like the biggest ha ha in the world to him. If he is sneaking over there to her? He has got it golden - no kids, no responsibilities, and a job that pays him to work, plus the state is paying HIM to have a kid that has problems, and KEEPING his wife and family.

And no one sees that he wouldn't be able to think this on his own, and explain it in terms to Katie that makes it seem like it's ALL unfair that they AREN'T together as a "F.A.M.I.L.Y." - ???? there's not a stupid bone in his body - lazy, worthless....kniving.....but stupid? I'll bet you a dollar - he figured this out way before we did.


So yeah if it were me? The next time I was there and red flags went up? I'd call his bluff and I'd report him......and I'd expose the whole shambles before the kids get too used to a nice life. Because maybe if he were out NOW? Something could be done to save the place for her and the kids.

If this isnt' what is going on - he'll figure it out soon enough - or SOMEONE he's in that mens shelter with will figure it out FOR him. And you can take me to the Bank on this one Hound - if I had done all for them that YOU had? You can bet your sweet white corn the next time I thought someone was in that house hiding? I'd be up her stairs like the Flash, and all over him like white on rice. You may as well - you're already in this more than you wanted to be anyway. Especially if he's afraid of your big husband like you say and you? I'd hit speed dial so fast my fingers would turn into charcoal.

Sorry to be the teller of what I think - and it's certainly not because I think he's a genius - I just think he's a manipulative wart on a toads hiney.

Her? My jury is still out only because I think she's somewhere between non-physical battered wife syndrome and PTSD - but I'd give anything for her to get into DV counseling and STAY there about 20 years.