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What is a lie?
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 658367" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>I think they do. It is a really hard thing, to tell ourselves the truth about so many things. Like in that story about someone whispering a secret, and by the time it gets to the end of the table, the story is unrecognizable. What we remember must have to do with how we saw whatever it was in the first place. Like when I remember times I was not able to protect, right? That would be a whole different set of circumstances to the child being hurt. What was forever traumatic to me ~ I would not even be in his memory of those events. If we were to ask him about it today, he probably, between the intensity of the trauma and the age that he was and the time that has passed, would have no memory, no concrete memory, of the incident at all.</p><p></p><p>I never thought of it that way before. So, many of those incidents that traumatize me all over again when I think of them today may mean nothing, or may seem never to have happened at all, to the sib I still feel so guilty for not having protected.</p><p> </p><p>Which is an interesting thing. With freedom in it somewhere, for me.</p><p></p><p>So that's good, then.</p><p></p><p>Thank you, SWOT.</p><p></p><p>And here is another piece. When my sister remembers a thing she has seen? She remembers the trauma in it, the shaming aspect of it for the person it was happening too, and uses that part of the memory against them, to name them, again and again, through the shame of that naming.</p><p></p><p>And I did not know that before answering this thread either.</p><p></p><p>I saw you. </p><p></p><p><em>I see you back.</em></p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>A lie would be something like my sister does. Where you know what you are going for, and you don't cherish, so you shame and hurt and ignore and you mean it.</p><p></p><p>Everything that happens then, however it somehow seems right, is a lie.</p><p></p><p>Every single thing.</p><p></p><p>I tell lies sometimes, too. I don't do it to be malicious. I have a little piece of a thing, and before I know it, my brain fills in all the details, plus all the emotions and what happened because of that and etc. But at the center of it is that core thing that was true, <em>at least in the way I remember it. </em>That's probably why I have to pin it down in words to figure out what really happened, and why I am so surprised at how truly nasty so much of what happened to me really is. I am just so surprised when it keeps being a series of things that are still nasty.</p><p></p><p>And I keep wanting to put it somewhere better, or figure it out in some better way. It's like I believe I must have seen it incorrectly to start with. And that is a locus of control issue.</p><p></p><p>Again.</p><p></p><p>That is probably why I keep posting: I see you. <em>I see you back.</em> On the family of origin threads, I mean. I am determinedly seeing something I don't want to see. It's like a true celebration for me to see what I saw and know it for what it really was.</p><p></p><p>So, people could be lying in that way, because they are in denial.</p><p></p><p>And that is a really hard thing to break through.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>Or, it's like routinely leaving late for work and then, driving like a jerk so you can get there on time or just a minute or two late. That might happen to anyone on a particular day. But when it is routine, when it is your pattern, then you have to take a look at that.</p><p></p><p>I used to do that?</p><p></p><p>And then, I got a ticket. Get this: On a day when I was driving home from work after such a rough day that I stopped at McDonald's and got a shake. And I was just sipping that shake, and thinking about my terrible day at work, <em>and driving like a maniac out of habit.</em> And I was so immersed in my terrible day and the good iciness of that stupid chocolate shake that I never spotted that police man until his lights were blinking in my rearview mirror.</p><p></p><p>I was so surprised that time, too.</p><p></p><p>And I didn't even have a story to tell him about how I was rushing to something important, like my job, because I wasn't. And I got a ticket on the freaking freeway because I was going 75 in a 65.</p><p></p><p>On the freeway!</p><p></p><p>And it cost $150.</p><p></p><p>You believe it?!?</p><p></p><p>And so, I began leaving for work earlier and drove with consideration, and got there at the exact same time, anyway. So, recognizing and not liking that pattern I was doing? I tried to leave earlier still?</p><p></p><p>And I never did.</p><p></p><p>WTF.</p><p></p><p>I still have issues around getting somewhere on time. But what happens to me is that if I leave too much time? Then I get distracted into something else and forget the time, because I think I have so much of it.</p><p></p><p>So, I try to be aware of that thing that I know about me.</p><p></p><p>I generally set a timer.</p><p></p><p>That way, I know what time it is.</p><p></p><p>It's been working pretty well. I just have to be careful not to leave too much time.</p><p></p><p>So, I don't know whether that would be lying...but I think it would be lying if I weren't trying to address it and succeeding in addressing it. If I just let it be, assuming that everyone else had to be on time and I didn't.</p><p></p><p>I am at a loss when I arrive early, though.</p><p></p><p>So now? I carry a book.</p><p></p><p>So, I don't think that is lying, because I am trying to figure out how everyone else in the world manages to get where they are going on time and not late. And not thirty minutes early, either. And I am hardly ever late now, and when I am?</p><p></p><p>I just am.</p><p></p><p>So I don't even make an excuse. I just let everybody think I am an a** h***, and let it go at that.</p><p></p><p>So that's my time story.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think we have so many soul mates. I think too, that a soul mate can be someone who teaches us how to be better in the world...but I also think our soul mates are those who teach us things we need to know about our own vulnerability. We might even be so upset with them, but in truth, they are teaching us, when they betray us.</p><p></p><p>I think, when that happens, that we are teaching them, too.</p><p></p><p>Everything that happens seems too precisely choreographed to be happening by chance.</p><p></p><p>But then, I always do seem to put all those disparate pieces together in that way. Sometimes when I have been betrayed again? I am beginning to get it now that I must have been part of it, too. Betrayal is definitely a thing that helps us see with more clarity.</p><p></p><p>That is why I am always walking around being surprised.</p><p></p><p>Happens every day.</p><p></p><p>When I become close to someone now? I try to really savor the good parts. Just in case there is going to be a lesson in there.</p><p></p><p>Ouch.</p><p></p><p>In marriage, I think that same thing happens. Only in our marriages, we are given, or we choose, someone with whom to work those things out that we don't even know we need to address. That is how my marriage is, to D H. That is why, probably for both of us, nobody left. Those same lessons would be there to be learnt.</p><p></p><p>And I still like and respect my D H.</p><p></p><p>So, that is what makes a successful marriage. You go through what you do and still like that other person enough to laugh together, and look at the stars. And maybe the richness of long term relationships is that when you are looking at stars or laughing (or crying, I suppose), you really are present when you are doing those things, instead of being distracted by the other persons mojo. And then, over time, those things make you lonely, if you have to do them after the other person is gone.</p><p></p><p>I will have to look at the stars with my D H tonight.</p><p></p><p>Oh brother, you guys.</p><p></p><p>I am not even going to explain to him why. I am just going to say, "We're doing it."</p><p></p><p>D H is like...he thinks I am strange, in some ways.</p><p></p><p>Yes, he does.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p><p></p><p>Here is a D H and me story. So, something was happening in the heavens. Like Mars was rising or something that doesn't happen every day. Our house is surrounded by these huge cedars. (Thus, my name here: Scent of Cedar.) Anyway. And we wanted to see this event, but we would need to go somewhere without trees, to do it.</p><p></p><p>So, we drove to this golf course near our house.</p><p></p><p>And there we were, waiting for Mars to rise, or for the moon to eclipse, or whatever the thing was. And one thing led to another. And it was a hot night, so we had the windows in the car open. </p><p></p><p>And all at once, there was water pouring in on us.</p><p></p><p>Like someone had opened a hose on us or something.</p><p></p><p>It turned out to be the automatic sprinklers on the golf course.</p><p></p><p>*</p><p></p><p>So we got dressed and went home, and never did get to see Mars or the moon eclipse or whatever it was.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 658367, member: 17461"] I think they do. It is a really hard thing, to tell ourselves the truth about so many things. Like in that story about someone whispering a secret, and by the time it gets to the end of the table, the story is unrecognizable. What we remember must have to do with how we saw whatever it was in the first place. Like when I remember times I was not able to protect, right? That would be a whole different set of circumstances to the child being hurt. What was forever traumatic to me ~ I would not even be in his memory of those events. If we were to ask him about it today, he probably, between the intensity of the trauma and the age that he was and the time that has passed, would have no memory, no concrete memory, of the incident at all. I never thought of it that way before. So, many of those incidents that traumatize me all over again when I think of them today may mean nothing, or may seem never to have happened at all, to the sib I still feel so guilty for not having protected. Which is an interesting thing. With freedom in it somewhere, for me. So that's good, then. Thank you, SWOT. And here is another piece. When my sister remembers a thing she has seen? She remembers the trauma in it, the shaming aspect of it for the person it was happening too, and uses that part of the memory against them, to name them, again and again, through the shame of that naming. And I did not know that before answering this thread either. I saw you. [I]I see you back.[/I] A lie would be something like my sister does. Where you know what you are going for, and you don't cherish, so you shame and hurt and ignore and you mean it. Everything that happens then, however it somehow seems right, is a lie. Every single thing. I tell lies sometimes, too. I don't do it to be malicious. I have a little piece of a thing, and before I know it, my brain fills in all the details, plus all the emotions and what happened because of that and etc. But at the center of it is that core thing that was true, [I]at least in the way I remember it. [/I]That's probably why I have to pin it down in words to figure out what really happened, and why I am so surprised at how truly nasty so much of what happened to me really is. I am just so surprised when it keeps being a series of things that are still nasty. And I keep wanting to put it somewhere better, or figure it out in some better way. It's like I believe I must have seen it incorrectly to start with. And that is a locus of control issue. Again. That is probably why I keep posting: I see you. [I]I see you back.[/I] On the family of origin threads, I mean. I am determinedly seeing something I don't want to see. It's like a true celebration for me to see what I saw and know it for what it really was. So, people could be lying in that way, because they are in denial. And that is a really hard thing to break through. *** Or, it's like routinely leaving late for work and then, driving like a jerk so you can get there on time or just a minute or two late. That might happen to anyone on a particular day. But when it is routine, when it is your pattern, then you have to take a look at that. I used to do that? And then, I got a ticket. Get this: On a day when I was driving home from work after such a rough day that I stopped at McDonald's and got a shake. And I was just sipping that shake, and thinking about my terrible day at work, [I]and driving like a maniac out of habit.[/I] And I was so immersed in my terrible day and the good iciness of that stupid chocolate shake that I never spotted that police man until his lights were blinking in my rearview mirror. I was so surprised that time, too. And I didn't even have a story to tell him about how I was rushing to something important, like my job, because I wasn't. And I got a ticket on the freaking freeway because I was going 75 in a 65. On the freeway! And it cost $150. You believe it?!? And so, I began leaving for work earlier and drove with consideration, and got there at the exact same time, anyway. So, recognizing and not liking that pattern I was doing? I tried to leave earlier still? And I never did. WTF. I still have issues around getting somewhere on time. But what happens to me is that if I leave too much time? Then I get distracted into something else and forget the time, because I think I have so much of it. So, I try to be aware of that thing that I know about me. I generally set a timer. That way, I know what time it is. It's been working pretty well. I just have to be careful not to leave too much time. So, I don't know whether that would be lying...but I think it would be lying if I weren't trying to address it and succeeding in addressing it. If I just let it be, assuming that everyone else had to be on time and I didn't. I am at a loss when I arrive early, though. So now? I carry a book. So, I don't think that is lying, because I am trying to figure out how everyone else in the world manages to get where they are going on time and not late. And not thirty minutes early, either. And I am hardly ever late now, and when I am? I just am. So I don't even make an excuse. I just let everybody think I am an a** h***, and let it go at that. So that's my time story. I think we have so many soul mates. I think too, that a soul mate can be someone who teaches us how to be better in the world...but I also think our soul mates are those who teach us things we need to know about our own vulnerability. We might even be so upset with them, but in truth, they are teaching us, when they betray us. I think, when that happens, that we are teaching them, too. Everything that happens seems too precisely choreographed to be happening by chance. But then, I always do seem to put all those disparate pieces together in that way. Sometimes when I have been betrayed again? I am beginning to get it now that I must have been part of it, too. Betrayal is definitely a thing that helps us see with more clarity. That is why I am always walking around being surprised. Happens every day. When I become close to someone now? I try to really savor the good parts. Just in case there is going to be a lesson in there. Ouch. In marriage, I think that same thing happens. Only in our marriages, we are given, or we choose, someone with whom to work those things out that we don't even know we need to address. That is how my marriage is, to D H. That is why, probably for both of us, nobody left. Those same lessons would be there to be learnt. And I still like and respect my D H. So, that is what makes a successful marriage. You go through what you do and still like that other person enough to laugh together, and look at the stars. And maybe the richness of long term relationships is that when you are looking at stars or laughing (or crying, I suppose), you really are present when you are doing those things, instead of being distracted by the other persons mojo. And then, over time, those things make you lonely, if you have to do them after the other person is gone. I will have to look at the stars with my D H tonight. Oh brother, you guys. I am not even going to explain to him why. I am just going to say, "We're doing it." D H is like...he thinks I am strange, in some ways. Yes, he does. Cedar Here is a D H and me story. So, something was happening in the heavens. Like Mars was rising or something that doesn't happen every day. Our house is surrounded by these huge cedars. (Thus, my name here: Scent of Cedar.) Anyway. And we wanted to see this event, but we would need to go somewhere without trees, to do it. So, we drove to this golf course near our house. And there we were, waiting for Mars to rise, or for the moon to eclipse, or whatever the thing was. And one thing led to another. And it was a hot night, so we had the windows in the car open. And all at once, there was water pouring in on us. Like someone had opened a hose on us or something. It turned out to be the automatic sprinklers on the golf course. * So we got dressed and went home, and never did get to see Mars or the moon eclipse or whatever it was. [/QUOTE]
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