What is reasonable?

[JJJ]

difficult child called me "cold and calculating" on the phone today and I am afraid that she was right. I find myself holding back and staying detached but not in a good way. I am afraid to show any emotion because I know that difficult child will jump on that and manipulate her way into getting what she wants. I would love to hug her and tell her that I am proud of her for going into rehab but I am afraid she will turn right around and say then why can't I come home.

So I am keeping an emotional distance which makes me feel bad but it is all I can manage at this point. I have so much anger and resentment for what she has put us through. Sadly, she still doesn't see why we would feel this way and just translates it into proof that we are bad parents and bad people that don't love her.

While Kanga still has almost a year until she is 18, she already gives us that exact attitude. I've started to haunt PE because I see our future in all of you. Easy for me to say not having lived it yet, but I think your plan is solid and keeps her from manipulating her but provides that help she needs to access treatment.

((Hugs))

 

[buddy]

Thinking of you.. Lots of tough choices. I hope she keeps working and builds your trust. I know you all say that is so hard when they have done these things for so long. I am naieve, so I am going to really hope this is the time.... Hang tough!

 

[Star*]

I really like Nancy's idea of the gas card so that you wouldn't have to see her and get drawn in by any more emotional drama of the day. For us that wouldn't have ever worked because the card would have "SOMEHOW" gotten lost or "OMG someone stole it and I really need help to succeed." Square one - even if the lesson was stated - be responsible for your gas card. With Dude there was ALLLLLLLLLLWAYS a "bad guy" out to "Get him" and RUIN his "success" no matter "how hard he tried" - it got old quick.

I would also wonder how far away she's willing to be sent for her sobriety? I don't know about where you are, but there are neighboring states that she could drive to for help if she asked a counselor for availability? Medicaid could still cover that I think......(just pondering that option) There is a place I believe in Augusta, GA - if it's still there. Not sure if they've gone outpatient or not at this point but if she's serious about getting clean and sober? Why not explore a little farther out?

Guilty feelings? OMWord woman! These kids put us through Hades on Earth and when we can grab our moments of peace in knowing they are SAFE, not on the street - being fed, not on drugs, or drinking, not in jail...not doing stupid, moronic things - and we can have a day, a week or a little bit longer of that time? Joy to the world! I can't see feeling badly about the tension, nerves and bodily funcitons going South when they're freed and back out like that guy on the Allstate commercials - what's his name.......Mayhem? Somedays my own flesh and blood makes me feel like an uninsured motorist driving on ballon thin wheels over a broken glass highway - shoeless.

Anyway - You're doing great Warrior Mom......Hang tough - (hands gloves for the rope) Be good to yourself.

Hugs

 

[Kathy813]

Couldn't she buy beer with a gas card? That's the last thing I would want to supply her with . . . the last time she stole a credit card she used it at a gas station to buy beer. I think I would rather meet her once a week and put the gas into her car.

I don't think she would be willing to go far away. I think that she is focused on the one that the counselor suggested since the counselor seemed to think very highly of it and it is close to here.

 

[toughlovin]

Kathy

Keeping your emotional distance right now sounds like exactly what you need to do. Your daughter is doing what she can to manipulate you into getting what she wants....the flip flop from being nice to being nasty is part of that dance. The emotinal distance you are feeling is good emotional preservation because you do not want to be
sucked into her dance, and your being sucked in is not good for her either.

I know this pattern all too well...you are doing great at not getting pulled in. She needs to find her way which means she needs you to step back.

If you havent already find an alanon group, hopefully one for parents.

TL

 

[elizabrary]

My difficult child ups the ante every time I set yet another boundary for her. They flip out when they aren't getting their way, so they try another form of manipulation. If being nice doesn't work they act mean, when that doesn't work they play the victim, when that doesn't work they lay on a guilt trip. I hang up the phone or walk away whenever she starts getting irrational in any way. Don't feel bad at all about your resentment. I posted a thread on here awhile ago about how I couldn't stand my own kid! It makes me feel terrible, but she's not a good person, so... And I don't even have anther kid who turned out ok to feel good about. She is it!

Stick to your guns. I see her raising the stakes with you, but she got herself into this mess, she needs to dig her way out. It was pretty awful when I threw my daughter out a bit ago because that meant my nearly 2-year-old granddaughter had to go with the nutcase and I had no idea if they even had a place to stay. But it had to be done. Hang in there!

 

[Mattsmom277]

I can't pretend this is at all the same as dealing with new found "chemically clean" with my own child but this does fit the feeling of distancing yourself and waiting for "more" I'm order to have some trust and to offer hugs and praise.
My s/o's sister spun out of cOntrol for a long time. Her addiction took its toll on the entire family. Other than her husband who lived 5 hrs away for her work and her difficult child kids, s/o and I were the family living in town. Boy she badly affected our lives for 2 years with her addiction. When she moves cities to go with her husband we stopped contact. We had to for her sake but also our own.

She turned up her on the summer at our door a year after no contact. I didn't let her in. Her husband and kids were at the curb in the car. Broke my heart but when she said she was a few weeks clean on methadone and was ready to fix the relationship with me and her brother, I said no. Her speech showed more disregard and disbelief at the effect she had on our lives. She was nowhere near sobriety. Not yet. She simply was beginning to help herself. I know she thought I was cold. She didn't know how badly I missed her and s/o missed her. She at one point was my closest friend and she was the one of all the siblings my s/o was closest to. We too wanted to hug her, be cheerleaders, etc. we didn't. Instead I told her we would know he time to trust would only be when her manipulation of us stopped and when she openly realizes the damage incurred to the relationship and was prepared to work at it for real.

We hurt over that conversation. He did tell family we were cold. If she gets right with herself one day she will know how hard that was for us but oh so necessary. For us and even her in the long run.

For what it's worth it sounds to me like you're making healthy and helpful choices. And your trust will come when she's earned it. And when you do hug her and tell her you are proud of her she will know she earned it and she will be able to feel true pride on herself.

Hang in there. Sometimes giving what our children need most hurts us and them initially. It pays off.

 

[DammitJanet]

I dont think Kathy's daughter is eligible for medicaid. If you are over 21 and dont have any kids or arent disabled, you are basically on your own insurance-wise. At least in most states. Some states do offer some assistance but not the majority of them.

 

[hearts and roses]

I think you have a firm boundary in place in terms of her living arrangements - and I agree with that 100%, good for you for sticking to it.

I was going to suggest putting gas in her car each week so she can't use the gas card for something else. Some addicts sell the gas cards for cash...not a good option for someone who cannot be trusted. And the pay as you go phone is a no brainer.

I also like the idea of a hotel room if the friend's mom doesn't come through. I also agree that the focus right now should be on staying drug free...the other counseling stuff can come later.

Big hugs.

 

[Signorina]

... difficult child ups the ante every time I set yet another boundary for her. They flip out when they aren't getting their way, so they try another form of manipulation. If being nice doesn't work they act mean, when that doesn't work they play the victim, when that doesn't work they lay on a guilt trip.

Eliza, I am wondering if you are a 55 year old man with a mustache??? Because I saw the therapist today (55 year old man with a mustache) and he said almost exactly the same thing... (of course in reference to my own difficult child)

Basically, set your terms in writing with yourself, rehearse them, memorize them and don't ad lib. difficult children look for your hesitation as an opportunity to turn the tables and relieve themselves of responsibility...

 

[rejectedmom]

Kathy, You have gotten many good suggestions and you have set clear boundries. Stick to them. My difficult child did exactly the same thing and didn't make any arrangements thinking that in the end we would break down and take him in. He ended up in a shelter. Bottom line is you deserve to be safe in your own home. Your difficult child doesn't respect that so she can't live there. I think the phone and the gas and help with living arrangements are healthy choices that show her you support her sobriety even if you do not trust her. As she works her steps all that will be reinforced. They learn that their actions affect others and trust is broken. They are supposed to make ammends. It sometimes takes a long time for them to reach that step but if she is dedicated to her recovery you will eventually get a humble and genuine apology. Do not worry about the resentment you feel. We all feel it at some point and rightly so. They turn our lives upside down make us piraih in our neighborhoods, lie, steal, leave us bruised and battered emotionally and sometimes physically. They are lucky we only resent them and not hate them. -RM

 

[DazedandConfused]

No disrespect meant, but she's 26 and you still want to verfiy her stories while she calls you "cold and calculating"?

I'm all about supporting sobiety too, but after all she has put you and husband though, I would refuse to support with any of my money. Not. One. Cent. If she wants it enough, she'll find a way to talk to her sponser and get to the meetings. I would only voluntarily offer support once she has well established her own sobiety and I'm talking AT LEAST 90 days. Then, little bits here and there on YOUR terms sans manipulation. How is this WOMAN ever going to fly on her own if you are willing to put out a pillow to soften her landing?

I only help those that help themselves FIRST.

I know it probably comes off very tough and hard, but I just have too many family members that bled other family members dry emotionally and financially trying to "help" them take responsibility for their own lives and you know what, not once did it ever work.

 

[DDD]

There are lots of places that buy gas cards at a discount. In the past two months food stamp cards are now worth 75% of their face value where this summer it was 50%. There is no way to control the use of cards to prevent the purchase of beer, wine, cigarettes. That is just the way it is "on the streets". DDD

 

[klmno]

Dazed has a point, I think. At her age, and given that her sobriety is her responsibility not yours and she has to be in charge of her recovery, not anyone else in order for it to work, I don't think I'd be spending so much effort on verifying and driving all over the place to make sure any help you give her goes for what you require it to. It's enough to make sure you aren't enabling to get her a gas card, phone, or whatever. You can't stop her if she wants to drink- honestly, someone in a hotel with share with her if she wants that badly enough. Don't make yourself xcrazy over this.

 

[Kathy813]

Wow, Dazed, tell me what you really think. Thank you for your reply, though. I know you are trying to help but I can't give up on difficult child when she is making an effort. I am using Fran's "do to get" philosophy. I have not done anything for her in regards to getting treatment for herself. She initiated the call to to the in-patient rehab center, drove herself there, completed the program, and has agreed to go to a halfway house. I think she had done enough for us to give her some financial support.

I have not called any halfway houses looking for placement for her or called to check the veracity of her statements. I agree with you and klmo there. She has to take responsibility for her recovery and we are just adding the financial support that she needs to make it happen. Yes, we could refuse all financial support but I don't see that as helpful at this point. Even her rehab counselor said that money makes a difference in the quality of halfway houses and successful outcomes.

Are we throwing money away? Very possibly but this is our daughter and we love her and still hope for recovery. Naive, probably. . . but worth the money to me.

~Kathy

 

[InsaneCdn]

Are we throwing money away? Very possibly but this is our daughter and we love her and still hope for recovery. Naive, probably. . . but worth the money to me.

Not necessarily... even if this round doesn't result in "success", you - and she - may be surprised at what she DOES learn in the process.

Its such a long road.

 

[Signorina]

I hear you. And for better or worse, I agree. So long as you aren't taking food out of your mouth or going into horrendous debt, I think you gotta do what you gotta do...

During this journey, I've often thought of the phrase "a face only a mother could love..." because I love my kids unconditionally. And if I don't, who will? I realize that love does not equal enabling or abuse or letting them walk all over you. And that sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand. But if you can honor that line while still extending a lifeline to them - do it. Do it until you can't or you won't or you shouldn't. And only you know when that is...

 

[DazedandConfused]

Kathy,

Please know, I truly meant no disrespect or to be hurtful. And, in no way am I avocating for you to "give up" on difficult child. You're her Mom and you have to decide what your comfort level is in determining what sort of support you are willing to give; I think I've pretty much expressed what mine is under the same circumstances.

I am rooting for her and for you.

Peace.

 

[Nomad]

Only perused, but I'm glad that ... as you mentioned... you are "holding back," using detachment and emotional distance. VERY good to hear that she has completed the program and has found an AA place she likes and wants to attend. Sending good thoughts.

 

[susiestar]

I don't have the experience you all do. Mine comes from a bro who was addicted, primaril. I do recognize that it is different.

If I am rememering things correctly, this is the first time she has called reha and gotten herself there, so that is a big difference from other times. in my opinion it is real progress. Given that, I think that finding a way to support her that you are comfortable with and that does NOT involve her living in your home, is reasonable IF IF IF it feels right to you. Each situation is individual, and each family also is. You have to do what you can live with, period.

I do think you need to figure out when you will find it reasonable to insist she support herself, when in your mind she will be ready to handle these issue herself. Much of what she tells you seems to be designed to either get you to give her what she wants or to be mean to you. Hopefully that will change with sobriety and learning to deal with her problems. But at some point all of this, her living situation, her $$, etc... needs to rest on her shoulders. We can all tell you what we did at that age, how many kids we had, homes we had, etc.... but NONE of that matters. What matters is how and when she will take responsibility fo rher own life. It is my understanding that this is a big part of rehab and the 12 steps. So at some point, this needs to be a goal for her. Is she capable of handling her own life? Is this something you have to work toward in baby steps? I can't answer those questions for you = you, husband, difficult child and a counselor need to discuss this. Preferably you and husband should discuss it with a counselor before you discuss it with her.

I do have one idea about the gas money. Figure out what you are willing to spend on her gas. Get a gas card and let her know that you will NOT give it to her. That you will ONLY pay for gas, and that you will NOT give her the card. If she goes over the amt you have on the card in the time that you are willing to pay for her gas, then she will have to figure out how to get more gas with-o help from you. It will help her be mindful of the cost of gas and how much she is driving, along with how much it costs to drive. Let her know the $$ amt on the card, and let her know that it is YOUR card to use to buy gas for her, and her budget is the amt on the card and there will be NO more gas money when she has spent all of it. NONE. Then stick to that limit.

If she just has you pay for gas, the $$$ sn't real to her nor is any limit.

Whatever works for you, and is what you feel you can do to help her, is what needs to happen. Part of me feels very much the way Dazed does. I know that it sn't the right thing to do at every time and in every situation though. I think at some point you will have to draw a line and say that she has to go and support herself and live her own live with you as part of it but NOT with you paying her bills, but that will be when YOU and husband are ready and you feel it is the right time.

I am sorry it is such a difficult situation and so full of conflama.