What now

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by WiseChoices, Apr 4, 2020.

  1. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    DC2, daughter, works, owns her car, pays all costs associated with car. Not paying rent, yet, as we don't charge until they graduate from University. Due to graduate May. Told her rent payments will start May 1. She is on antidepressants and antihistamines for anxiety.

    She came clean a few months back that she has been smoking pot since first semester away at school, Aug 2018. We have a rule no drugs or paraphernalia or alcohol on our property.

    Issue 1:Yesterday a package arrived for her and it was just the product in the manufacturer's box with a label on it . It was a safe disguised as a book. She put it in car. She never brings her purse in the house. Said it's for convenience. Today another package arrived and it contained a pipe and weed grinder. It's pretty clear that she is using in her car after work and has a stash in her car which is parked ON MY PROPERTY. Do I throw her out for having drugs on my property and paraphernalia in my house in the middle of a pandemic?

    Issue 2: She was not observing social distancing. When she came home from work (essential job) and I asked her to wash hands , I would get eye roll. Husband is very close to high risk age and she said we should all be ok here except for 1 person and oh well. When I pointed out that this is hurtful, she said it was a joke. Was still going to friends houses all the time even telling me one time: "I am going to get high tonight and sleep at my friend's house since I can't come home drunk or stoned". When State orders for stay home regulations came down, she still went to friends house. Husband told her he was not ok with this that he has to protect himself and his family and she is only to go to work and home. That he would call her work to verify.

    She got very upset and came to me to talk about it. I directed her back to her Dad but said I would listen and validate feelings and hold space for her if she needed to vent. In this conversation she said she did not feel comfortable here , hated it here , was in an abusive situation here (?), and her boss said they would not verify whether she was at work or not for the safety of employees. I told her to just give me a copy of her schedule then (which she since has) and asked her why she was here if it was so awful. And I get the sob story about her credit card bill , that she spent too much bla bla bla.

    She said she is depressed. I asked about her medications for depression and she says "you don't understand, they don't help, they only take the edge off so I am not suicidal".

    Don't know what to do here. It is clear she has to move out, but she has not saved money and how do I set a deadline date when there is a pandemic?
     
  2. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    I found an article online that suggests that when adult children are drug users but don't do it in the house that is being as respectful as they can be. Technically, it's in her car - so not my house. It is on my property though.
     
  3. Overwhelmed1

    Overwhelmed1 Active Member

    Wise
    Sounds as though, your daughter has a job, goes to school and sounds fairly responsible. That is good.
    Do you think with all the hype about legalizing marijuana and the medical advantages it may have, has caused you daughter to self medicate using it?
    Does she think it helps her anxiety? Just curious.
    My ex and my son both used marijuana and I hate it. My son goes outside and hides but I can tell just by looking at him, when he has used.
    I am in the same boat. Trying to get my son out of my house and putting my daughter on the street during this time. Makes me feel so cruel. Have I picked the wrong time to stand up for myself?
    On the other hand, I don't believe my kids are taking this virus very serious. Still, am I putting them in harm's way unnecessarily?
    I hope you can have a long talk with your daughter to explain your rules and how important it is for your daughter to respect and abide by them.
    This puts the ball in her court and she should not be surprised by the outcome if she chooses not to follow the house rules.
    Hard stuff we go through. Our emotions and love for our children makes it hard to make and stick to decisions.
    Sometimes I think, people are suppose to be the smartest creatures on the planet, yet a small bird knows when it is time to send her babies from the nest. They give them life, nurture them and then send them on their way to flourish. So why can't I.
    I know I'm not much help to you but I do pray you can get through this with your daughter and the bond between the two of you becomes stronger in the process.

    Peace and Love
     
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  4. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Thank you, OW, I am exactly afraid of what you are describing - that she would just go outside and get high and come back in. Work around my rules.

    We sat her down and had a talk with her. Reiterated the rule of no drugs, alcohol, or paraphernalia on the property with her (she thought it was the house and I wasn't sure whether she was aware of that; she was not) . She said the pipe set with grinder was for a friend. We told her to get rid of it, or park the car off property. She said she would have to go back to work to drop the pipe off to the friend. I kind of believe her. It's something she would do. It's a nice set. I feel foolish. I feel I made too much of this.

    We said she had to pay rent starting May 1 or move out,husband made her give me the gym money she owed me, and we said her staying her wasn't working , she was unhappy and we want her to be happy, so to save her money during lock down so she can move out afterwards.

    I feel like I have jumped to conclusions. I could have asked her about the safe and about the box that arrived. Someone in Al-Anon said I should wait until I was calm and to pray about it first. I did not. I was and still am full of anxiety and should not have talked to her in that state. I could have waited the situation out. That was husband's first suggestion. I could have observed whether she was going to car a lot or not. I do this a lot: I suspect things and draw conclusions without checking in with people first. I am afraid our relationship is wnow broken , but really wasn't it broken before?

    She was very upset I told husband that she had said she was living in an abusive situation, said when she is honest with me, I betray her trust. That it's not ok I told her Dad what she said to me. I said we provide a loving home and are kind to her and I did feel husband needed to know how she felt. She was crying at this point and said we have been abusive since going to AA. Never mind that before AA she said we had been abusive during her childhood. I am so raw and so tired of all of this. And how much of it am I self creating? And why do I always make a plan, enact it, and then waffle back and forth and make myself feel guilty and that I had been wrong????
     
  5. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    OW, yes she does self medicate with it. Her psychiatrist even suggested she get a medical MJ card and use it for anxiety. She has not gotten a card as it is cost prohibitive. In addition, we don't allow MJ or any drugs, alcohol, or paraphernalia on the property. Husband and I are in recovery in AA (28 years sobriety total, spent 20 years away from program and back for 3 now.) and don't want any of that around us.
     
  6. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Reading between the lines I hear that you don't want her to leave.

    You have a choice: Do you focus upon what she is accomplishing, what she has already accomplished, while she takes on more responsibilities, (ie rent), or do you cut her loose, focusing upon the things that have been persistently triggers?

    Consistently your daughter has bucked you, since you've been here, as I recall. I have thought that her efforts to define herself and her life were age appropriate however unpleasant she has been. And you have struggled to not react. Valiantly you have tried not to personalize this, a situation you find very emotionally wounding, to not take her defiance and rejection as somehow against you. We have talked about this repeatedly. In an exemplary and admirable way you have been growing in response to your daughter's push to emancipate, while allowing her space to grow and change.

    As an observer, this (the above paragraph) is the main issue of your ongoing effort to parent this adult child. The specific face of the issue changes (like the tip of each iceberg looks different, ie, the therapist, the car, the marijuana, etc. but the iceberg under the water remains the same. Because the real issue that your daughter is working out is a desire to separate emotionally from you, her mother. She would do this to any mother. Individuating, separating are essential to growing up in a healthy way. And it offers us as parents an opportunity to revisit wounds and inadequacies in our own lives. In that sense it's been a powerful opportunity to you. And you are doing this.

    So much of what your daughter does is blowing smoke in your face. You react to the smoke, but more and more, and more and more quickly you're aware that that's just so much smoke.

    This is blowing smoke in your face:
    Under the smoke is daughter's desire to do what she wants when she wants it. That's true with my son too.

    I see the problem as they're in our homes. And as such we have power, responsibility and control. Why? Because it's our house. And why? Because they're our children. It is this authority and control they don't want to give us. Because their aim is different and opposed. Again, I will repeat it. They want to do what they want to do when they want to do it. That's age appropriate and healthy. To a point.

    Over and over again on this forum we see that the only resolution is that they leave our homes.

    The problem for us, is often times we are extremely ambivalent about their leaving, and very opposed to giving into their behaviors that oppose us. We believe we know better. We want to protect them. So we want and seek control over their choices. The rationale while they're in our house, is that we have the right to make the rules. Thus your situation. And my own. CD exists to work out these contradictions, as I see it.

    I find this ridiculous:
    I don't know why this annoys me so much. Maybe because I believe with all of my heart that as parents we are responsible to take a stand for our children. According to what we KNOW and believe is the best for them. But doing so, is not such an easy thing.

    I have a really hard time in my own home overlooking my son doing something I know is self-destructive. To me, to see self-destructiveness done away from my house, while letting him back in, is a cop out.

    On the other hand, marijuana is legal all over. That we have an issue with it, is really about us, not them. Adult people have a right to make decisions for themselves about their lives. It's just that we don't like our kids decisions. And after all, they are in our homes. Whose problem is that? Whose responsibility is that?

    To me, it all goes back to the issue of living together and having the generations' lives entangled so that we become enmeshed. And there's no way around it. Because they're in our face.

    But then the other side of the coin is that we are still parents. If we truly believe that they are in danger, or morally compromised, I believe I have a responsibility to take a hard stand. Which is what I have done. But I tried every other thing over and over again, before I came to this.

    The questions are these: Do you want to harbor your child, knowing she is a drug user? Does it matter to you that it is marijuana, rather than a harder drug? Is this the time you want to take a stand? What is the best for you? What protects your own integrity and emotions? Not one parent here knows the answer to these questions for you.

    I have long had a battle with my own child about marijuana use, on my property and coming home stoned. But the thing is my son did not graduate from college, is not working, is not productive and aside from being in a sober living home, because I tightened severely the conditions near me, is barely functional. I believed that the marijuana could well be a factor underlying his marginal functioning. After all was said and done,I could not overlook it. Because to me overlooking it would be pure enabling.

    But the "harm reduction model" of addiction probably would argue the opposite. Maybe that quote that so annoys me comes from "harm reduction."

    I believe my son wants to come back to the property I own. I won't allow it. There is the added complication now that he's stable on antiviral medication, only because he had the stability of the house I own, and now the stability of the sober living facility.

    He is threatening to go back to the big metro near me. I know that this choice will be greatly destabilizing to him. And he will stop the antivirals. Which is dangerous. And he will become homeless again. Nonetheless, I will not let him back. What it will take to rethink this, I don't know.
    It appears that she has been openly violating this rule continuously. I don't see the point of continually repeating it. She does not care what the rule is. This is a struggle for dominance which is age appropriate. She wants to be in charge of herself. This has been the baseline for her.
    I don't believe her. Do you?

    Wise. I don't think anybody here is in a position to counsel you. The variables are too intertwined, and this is so, so personal. It depends upon what you define as your major goal. Your major goal may not be getting her compliance on the marijuana. But then do you have to change the rules, or become more flexible? I don't know.

    You've made good decisions every step of the way, as demonstrated by your daughter's and son's continual and steadily improving functioning. Good luck.

    PS I have an acquaintance of many years, whose son is my son's friend. The Dad had a no marijuana, no inebriation rule in the house. The son continually violated it, but not in the Dad's face. The Dad never called him on it. I think it was because the Dad wanted the son close in. The son was doing pretty good, not great, and the Dad wanted to support the son. (In fact, my son was living with this family and the Dad threw out my son, for overhearing him on the phone arrange to buy marijuana, but not the son.)

    I write this because I think there are millions and millions of parents in the same boat. And I guess there are another million ways we respond.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  7. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Thank you, Copa. Yes to all of it. In her defense, the rule about the property was not clear. It had been communicated to my son when I had attempted to write up a living agreement for him some time back. We had her reiterate the rule to us first and she did say "no drugs or alcohol in the house". So we had to clarify it.

    I think we both need autonomy at this point. I think the relationship can only move forward when we do not live together. She needs to complete the steps into independence by learning to run her own household.

    Thank you for your thoughts which were very helpful.
     
  8. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Wise. I just change a whole lot of the post. As you were responding. I think my changes might have made what I said clearer.
     
  9. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    You unfortunately have a dangerous problem.

    If Kay were here and not doing social distancing and acting as if everything is the same as it was before Coronavirus, Kay would be at very high risk to get this virus.

    Kay is young and healthy and would almost certainly survive it.

    But we are over 60 and my dear husband has diabetes and high blood pressure and it would be very dangerous for him to get it. Both of us have been very careful. I have health issues too.

    A defiant adult child at high risk of getting covid19 due to her selfish at risk lifestyle could never live with us. Sorry. No. To me the pot right now is less an issue than her appalling risk taking behavior that could get you and your husband sick.

    I love my husband and I don't want to get this either. If Kay didn't mind risking her life and was doing it from my house, risking us too, she may as well leave. She isn't being safe anyway so the only difference if she left would be that YOU get exposed to whomever she is with now too, and you are not young.

    For me she would be out due to the virus. I don't think we could survive it.

    The pot stuff shows how little she respects you, but that is for another day.

    Please stay safe.

    Blessings and love.
     
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  10. Crayola13

    Crayola13 Active Member

    She desperately needs to move out. Even under the best of circumstances, living with your parents at that age is miserable. Is she still using candles to ward off things\people?
     
  11. louise2350

    louise2350 Active Member

    I feel for you, Wise. When my d.d. was living with me and our family, she'd get drunk at other kids places and then come home to our house that way. She thought it was alright, as long as she didn't drink in our house. She tried so many ways to get around our rules. She once said to me that she was now smoking pot (in our house) and showed it to me, thinking I would be OK with that - this was back in 1997/98 when pot was illegal. Her thinking was warped. I was furious to think that she thought it was OK for her to smoke pot in our house versus drinking. I was totally exhausted and like you, didn't know what to do or where to turn. My ex- husband was never home when these things occurred so I was left alone to deal with all of this. I hope you can find support during this time and that you can work out a solution to all of this. My heart goes out to you.
     
  12. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Hi Crayola,
    No, we put our foot down and she respects the boundary of not burning candles. She does not like it , told me "she is not allowed to practice her witchcraft in our house". She got several books on WC and displayed them proudly on her book shelf. The only place in her room she cleaned - that shelf with those books - LOL.

    I do keep thinking about that. How she tried to hex me . How I had become that much of an enemy to her while I have always loved her more than life itself.
     
  13. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    What about going our recklessly and exposing you to coronavirus? Are you young and healthy at least?????
     
  14. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    I wanted to share here what my Father said to me in the hopes that it might help someone else: " Strictness that may have been lacking in childhood now needs to be replaced by consequences. Sentimental patience does not help the sick person out of their aimlessness. It's about the sick person not about the grief of the one saddened by farewells. Be strong and cry in solitude."

    That really struck me! I have to do what is best for my daughter even if it hurts like hell. And what is best for her is not to live with us anymore. It also is best for us, coincidentally, but primarily, it's about her being responsible for her own life. Having to pay all of her own bills, reaping the consequences of her own choices directly - she needs life to teach her now. And by not crying outwardly, I get to show her my strength and with that connect to her own.
     
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  15. JayPee

    JayPee Sending good vibes...

    Wise,

    When my youngest son was at home with us (before the divorce and family split up) I've mentioned before he smoked pot like it was his full time job. I kid you not when I say he smoked it, in the house, in the basement, in the garage, on the porch, on the side porch...he smoke it anywhere and everywhere without any concern that our whole house stunk or that it bothered us so much. I was to the point where all my cloths and coats were permeated with the smell of it. It was about every 1/2 hour throughout the day. I truly think it damaged his brain cells. He was defiant and didn't care how much it bothered us. He just did what he wanted.

    I felt so out of control and miserable. I've mentioned, before that at the time there was a lot of other "things" happening in my home and it was insanity. But I felt I couldn't stop it. What could I do except involve the police...again?

    It hurts me, as I've also mentioned time and again, that he's homeless and living in his car but I tell you I will never, ever have him back home again. He still does what he wants, when he wants and if he wants. I have at least through all my therapy and Al anon been able to get healthy enough to know that's a boundary for me that has to stay in place.

    I'm tired of trying to get my sons to respect me and listen to me. I do drive to where he parks to check on him and pick up his chargers for his phone but if I'm in conversation with him and I can see he's not listening to a thing I'm saying, I just simply stop talking and nicely say...see you later and drive off. I can mutter and sputter to myself as I drive off but by the time I've arrived to my home where I have peace and no one is threatening control over my domain, I am so grateful for this firm unwaivering boundary I have kept.

    I don't think you're going to change your daughter, For you, in my humble opinion, I think the best thing is to encourage this "move-out". Let her then be as dependent as she wants and should be and deal with the consequences of her choices, good or bad.

    I think that's the only way you're going to get control back over your home.

    Don't beat yourself up about woulda, coulda, shoulda...you are smart and "wise" and thoughtful.
     
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  16. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Yes.
    Yes.
    Yes.
     
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  17. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    I agree with the others.

    She's going to do what she is going to do irregardless of what you say.

    If you don't like how she lives then she needs to move out as soon as possible. Maybe have a plan in place and continue to have strict rules with her that make YOU comfortable in YOUR home.

    Maybe someday she will outgrow the MJ use. I know that I did in my early 20's because my husband at that time did not smoke it and it was something that I mostly did with my girlfriends to be silly. We all worked and were otherwise good kids. I guess it was our way of rebelling.

    We have had some issues with our son also but he has learned from the things that have happened. He shows us that he does appreciate what we have done for him and that he knows how important a college education is for him so he can live the lifestyle that he is accustomed to. He has matured a lot. Sometimes they need to see what it's like in the real world. Our son knows what it's like to fail and said he has "failed at enough". That is a mouthful coming from him. Only they can decide how they want to live their lives.

    Good luck and you are a strong lady and this too shall pass.
     
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  18. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Thank you all! I am so grateful for your support.
     
  19. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    We have put our foot down and she is currently complying with only leaving for work and coming straight home. I have her schedule. She is in an essential job as is my son and they are both out in the community working. Hubs and I are both healthy, however Hubs is 62, so close to high risk group age.
     
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  20. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    I realize I am back paddling here, but I cannot leave any stone unturned. I have to make sure I am doing this right, being fair.

    What if the book safe was for hiding her tip money? I don't know why you would not put it in the glove box, your wallet, or purse, or bring it into the house, but still, it's a possibility. Then again, when we spoke to her, why would she not have defended herself and said what the safe was for ?

    She said that she lives in an abusive situation. What if we are accusing her wrongly?