what things are school allowed to do modification wise without an iep or 504 in place

Discussion in 'Special Ed 101' started by Jena, Sep 25, 2008.

  1. Jena

    Jena New Member


    so i was wondering because school wont' back me on 504 or iep for difficult child because last 7 days her anxiety's been lower, yet it's documented that this same thing occurred last year at this time and then out of blue in november she went downhill quick and an immediate intervention was required and 3 team meetings, etc.

    so school right now is handling her anxiety, so i'm wondering are they allowed to do this stuff.......

    they do not allow her to go to the nurse when she has extreme anxiety the teacher is trying to redirect it and basically telling her no.

    also if she's in lunchroom and has same anxiety she sits alone and is paranoid also social worker for school has stopped her after she got approval from aide to go to nurse, are they allowed to do that?

    then hw is an issue yet i was just told by someone here how to handle that one. she forgets stuff alot, we call a friend for assignment if it's one we can get, yet if it's a rexo teacher is now telling me i should go back to the school to get it since i'm not working now and all.

    is teacher allowed to suggest remedies for difficult child herbal, etc. is teacher or staff allowed to tell me that i shouldn't use a drug of choice her pyschdoc prescribed? granted scary drug yet are they allowed to voice their concerns and opinions and place more pressure on me?
  2. Superpsy

    Superpsy New Member

    As far as I know (someone correct me if I’m wrong) if you do not have an IEP or 504 then school districts can make most changes that they want.

    Here’s my thoughts.

    If there is no plan in writing then the school can do whatever they see best. There is nothing to hold them accountable and they will do what they want.

    It’s sad that they “play around” with difficult child like you describe here. Sounds like typical hierarchy to me. The social worker’s judgment “outranks” the school aide. If there is no plan in writing then it’s crappy but allowed.

    No school official should be recommending any medication/herbal treatments or telling you that you shouldn’t use a prescribed medication (this is different from voicing concerns or opinions about what they see when she is on the medication and recommending that you talk to your doctor about it). They are not medical professionals and do not have training in this area. This is not allowed.

    Here’s just my 2 cents:

    For the medication issue: I would personally use the confused parent technique to someone in power. “I’m confused…is Teacher A supposed to be recommending herbal remedies and tell me not to use certain medication prescribed by a physician?” They should back off on the pressure but be able to voice their concerns and observations. It may help to speak with a principal about this.

    Has difficult child ever been on an IEP? I find it strange that they won’t support this because of her behavior over the past 7 days. I see from your sig that difficult child does not have an official diagnosis right now (it’s being worked out). Have you ever requested an evaluation from the school? Would you say that the situation has an adverse educational impact?

    It doesn’t matter that the school district won’t support an IEP or 504. Request an evaluation (certified letter). They have to respond to this request and let you know what you are going to do. If they refuse to evaluate they are essentially saying that they do not suspect difficult child to be a student with a disability (I find that hard to believe from what you’re saying…and the level if involvement with the school in the past). By requesting an evaluation you’re putting the ball in the school district’s court. The next step is theirs. If they say no it’s not the end of the world (http://www.wrightslaw.com/blog/?p=66); there are other steps to take.

    Keep trying to get them to meet difficult child’s needs. You’re doing a great job! Hope this was helpful.

  3. Jena

    Jena New Member


    difficult child has never had an iep, i actually had to convince myself to go forth with it for her own sake. it was difficult for me in regards to accepting that she has issues, simply put that i have a child with emotional issues who is not mentally well. as i'm sure you know hard nut to swallow.

    there is alot documented, yet it's in her file. She began last year brand new in school i had told them of her issues and i had hoped that maybe just maybe the doctor's were wrong and maybe just maybe she would be better there (dillusional thinking on my part i was still in a bit of denial obviously after 3 doctors and 3 different medications). yet she began school year smiling and socially outward, presentation was great, work as getting done, yet forgetting of books etc. began she couldn't remember to pack stuff up. september, october was great for most part accept for forgetting of books and missed assignments, she was in school on time everyday. teacher was very aggressive with her and hard on her i believe this is what triggered what occured next. by end of november i was told that an immediate intervention was needed, difficult child was withdrawn, anxiety ridden, not able to focus and complete desk work, emotionally needy, academically needy, asking to go to nurse 50 times a day on alot of days, she began what doctors call mania would be up all night on certain nights couldnt' sleep didn't always seem anxiety ridden it changed frequently yet a pattern began to form. it would be up on sunday, mon, tuesd, wed, crash thur and friday and saturday. when i say up i mean up till 6 a.m. in the morning from the day before. sometimes anxiety was present from a lay person's view me the mom was very negative about herself, her body image her level of intellingence the experience of kids in school etc.

    so we had at least 3 team meetings to address the issue the teacher found it very difficult to handle difficult child's constant level of needines and complaints of headaches, stomach aches, i can't focus i dont' remember constant redirecting that occurred. so we tried a medication abilify we had already tried seroquel year prior her anxiety flew through the roof we had to pull medication. she was also very difficult to awaken most a.m.'s she would crash by 3 in the morning or as i said pull an all nighter than go to school the next day on no sleep. there were nights she would wet the bed, physically she is fine had her checked out yet they claim it's her anxiety. yet other nights she was almost driven by a motor coloring drawing writing recipes,songs, magazines, lyrics, books, endless creative and quite honestly astounding projects i must say.

    so at years end i received many verbal apologies from the staff with whom worked with em all year apologies from the teacher with whom thought it was a "home" problem and finally she saw the swings that i saw. weeks where difficult child was connected anxiety lower, and weeks where anxiety was thru the roof, she even had an episode whereas she started to recite evacuation procedures in class due to losing her "worry doll" that was given to her by the anxiety group she attended weekly, yet another implement to assist her with her issues.

    so at years end it was ok she needs medication, i'm so sorry, etc. we began school year hopeful new dr. on board had already gotten neuropsychologist full evaluation done by a hospital last february, had new dr. on board, therapist, etc.

    she was up 5 weeks prior to the first day of school same driven by motor had i explained previously....she knew school was coming. i even tried shopping week before school so as not to set her off etc. nothing helped.

    over a week ago, last tuesday to be exact she finally crashed she looked pale, first week or so of school she was anxiety ridden insecure emotionally needy academically needy teacher wrote letter stating such i gave to dr. then after last tuesday things changed again her anxiety lowered, and she went into needing alot of sleep mode. so i ahve now for over a week struggled each a.m. to awaken her to no avail.

    she has gone to bed since last tuesday at midngiht each night, which for her is great. we have strict bedtime routine in place yet yes i always assist it is a battle to bring her down yet i have been able to. all she wants to do is sleep. i physically lift her out of bed in a.m. 3 times she continues to crawl back in, she falls asleep on floor once i lift her out of bed, she runs down to couch falls asleep there she falls asleep everywhere then begins the verbal fight i don't want to go to school. today it took me three hours to get her in bldg.

    so at end of day i was told that because past 7 days she has functioned well (still not eating in bldg. and refuses to use bathroom there is afraid it will overflow) that school does not believe at this time an iep or 504 is necessary. they have also stated that i should make an appointment to talk to school psychologist since this is a home problem they can assist me or help me in getting her to remember to bring home proper home assignmetns she's missed two homeworks since start of year (i was told by teacher since i am not working to go back to bldg. to get janitor to open door to get missing work, i cannot do that), and also to help me learn how to handle difficult child better.

    i said ok so the documented meetings from last year the columbia 25 pg report stating difficult child has major depressive disorder, and anxiety disorder, and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), defencies in executive functioning skills, and also short term memory and they suggested addtl testing which i couldnt' afford it was out of pocket), the letter from current doctor stating that he believes behaviors difficult child is displaying go hand and hand iwth bi polar not otherwise specified, adhd, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), and anxiety disorder, the 3 other diagnosis's of three other doctors stating tourette's syndrome, explosive rage disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), and anxiety disorder mean nothing.

    so i said well then i guess we'll have to wait for crash to happen again till someone does something to implement provisions for difficult child to assist her when it does occur. id' love more than anything for her to remain as is, yet it never happens.

    so now the school is watching me, and basically said so in not so many words their careful with their words now. it's a home problem because difficult child spends two hours trying Occupational Therapist (OT) complete 20 min worth of homework, it's a home problem because difficult child cannot remember certain books, rexo's to bring home, it is a home problem because difficult child cannot sleep at night hence what i go through in a.m. and also i cannot get her into bldg. on time so she is missing work, deskwork and falling behind. yet their blaming me the mom.

    i cannot seem to make them see that it is due to her issue which aren't home issues their difficult child issues that she is not making it up in a.m. that we struggle as we do, etc.

    so now everything i do in regards to school has to be written no more verbal with anyone there i've decided and been advised by people here who know better than me and are helping me. iv' called dr. to see if i can meet with him to see if school has called him to see if he will back me and help me.

    so now what i'm doing and have decided to do is everytime i can't get difficult child into bldg. on time i am writing a letter to school with breakdown of when she went to bed night before and what her a.m. was like i am also recording the mornings with her i started today on tape recorder.

    i don't know what else to do at this point. yet i do not believe that the school if they are not willing to assist in bking me with the 504 or iep should be taking matters into their own hands with my daughter stopping her from going to the nurse, stopping her as she walks out of lunchroom to go to nurse. that is just wrong to me. isnt' that illegal? if the child is having a problem part of a 504 or iep is implementing such things cognitive behavior strategies with child, etc.

    ugh sorry was so long
  4. Superpsy

    Superpsy New Member

    Wow Jennifer, I'm sorry you've had to go through all this. it makes me mad that the school is apparently absent of all responsibility if it’s a “home” problem? How bizarre! I think it's a good idea to have everything written down like you're doing...good move on your part!

    So what you're asking is...if there is is no plan (they're not backing you), how can they stop her from going to nurse etc.? Maybe someone else can speak to the legality of this; I don't think it's illegal BUT I would not want to put myself in the situation of stopping a child from going to the nurse if he/she feels ill. I don't need to make that kind of decision. Maybe because teachers have worked with difficult child before they feel comfortable doing this? ugh.

    I'm concerned about the school saying "no" to an IEP. I'm sorry, but I didn't see an answer below: did you make this request in writing and did they respond in writing? I just don't understand how your difficult child, with this much documentation and by their own admission is having her school work affected (not turning in homeworks, constantly wanting to go to the nurse, not eating at school...) is not catching their attention as a student they may want an IEP/behavior response plan/504 for.

    Having a difficult child is already tough and it sounds like the school is making it doubly tough. It's great that you're so willing to advocate for your kiddo. Keep up the good work!
  5. dreamer

    dreamer New Member

    jennifer, did you see my reply to your thread on general forum I wrote last nite?
    Actually, no, I would not write letetrs to school detailing your day to day struggles with your child, I fear for you that they will use those to twist things, manipulate what you are trying to say to them, and use those letetrs to try to claim you are in some way not handleing things to their satisfaction somehow.
    what you need to put in writing is a formal request for the process to begin getting an IEP for your child. Your request must be in writing, and I would send that to proper school officials via certified mail, return reciept requested. Until you do that, I fear this school is just gonna build up a case against YOU personally and try to blame YOU for the difficulties your child is haveing. While docs reports etc might be in your childs school files, there is a possibility noone has bothered to READ them, and even you requesting them to read them does not maen anyone will read them, nor does it mean the people in a position to do anything positive for your child will read them.
    ANYTHING you try to explain to them, they can take and play with your words to paint YOU and your child in the worst possible light.
    You seriously need to request an IEP in writing, and avoid any conversational talk with anyone at your childs school right now.
  6. jal

    jal Member


    Are her issues affecting her ability to learn in school or prohibiting her peers from learning? If so, an IEP should be granted. I would absolutely as Superpsy recommended, send a registered letter to the school requesting a meeting and/or evaluation of your child. If you do this and you stronlgy feel she needs in school support and/or accomodations push for the IEP. A 504 is a worthless document which the school pushes on parents as a means to pacify them. It saiys that the school will do A, B and C as discussed, but gives you no legal footing when they do not follow through. An IEP gives you a legal footing that means the school has to do what is says it will in the document.

    Good luck.
  7. dreamer

    dreamer New Member