What to say? Or should I say anything at all?

lovemysons

Well-Known Member
A little background.
My oldest son Josh was involved with Meth when he was younger as he struggled with drug and alcohol addiction just like our son that died did. He even went to prison for a year for stealing $10,000 worth of computer equipment from an employer of my husband’s.

After he got out of prison he went to work for my husband again. He was ALWAYS a hard worker unlike his brother who died homeless with no shoes on his feet.

He got involved with a woman 10 years older than him that was married at the time.
He still drank but quit using Meth. This woman divorced her husband for my son. Soon afterwards she became pregnant from my son.

Josh started changing. He and his wife started going to a very charismatic church. He stopped drinking.

Our relationship began to change sometime around then too.

My husband found a new job and Josh continued growing the company my husband had helped him start.

We didn’t see them very often because they lived much further away from us and near his wife’s parents and their church. Wife’s parents were very religious people who kinda seemed holier than thou to me.

I think Josh began to be ashamed of us. At least me with mental illness/Bipolar disorder and psychotic breakdown that involved religious overtones. It was very horrifying. Yes. I know what the devil looks like!

I think he is afraid of my mental illness and doesn’t understand it. The psychotic breakdown and Bipolar disorder diagnosis happened while he was in prison.

Years went by and I would only get a text from him on Mother’s Day or my birthday. We would go visit our granddaughters a couple of times a year…summertime and Christmas as it was always so hard to arrange anything with them since Josh works all the time.

Josh didn’t go to his brother’s funeral 2 1/2 years ago. He said in text…

Sorry mom.
“I’m
sorry for the loss of Jarod.
I’m sorry for his choices.
I’m sorry he hurt his children
And y’all.
I’m sorry he never took advantage of any of his chances to change his life.”

This hurt me terribly. I told him Yes! But he was your brother. You loved him!

Fast forward to today.
Josh is a millionaire. He is also a workaholic. All of his girls go to very expensive private Christian school. They live in a big fancy house. They get plastic surgery. They go to church and I think they think…they are the perfect family.

But here’s the catch. Josh was drinking at his last company party. His dad has warned him that he used to be a binge drinker. He said he can have a drink at dinner and he is fine.

I’m worried about his future. And not just his but his whole family and all the families that he supports through the jobs he’s given to their fathers who work for him.

I want to say something to him. I invited him out to lunch the other day. He texted back and said, “probably not I am working.”

I love him still. Even after the estrangement. Even after he wouldn’t even be by our side and go to his own brother’s funeral.

I was there for Josh when he went to prison. I visited him often, wrote him letters and put money on his books till I had the breakdown.
His dad, my husband, had nothing to do with him while he was in prison. Josh cost his dad his job.

Should I let him go on living with his own devices without my input? Should I just leave it alone and let him learn?

Or should I speak up and say something? Would it even matter or just make things worse?

Thanks for reading this lengthy post. For caring and for your thoughts in advance.

Love,
LMS
 

Nandina

Member
LMS, I think we have to look at it the same way we (try to) handle our addicted adult kids. They are adults and will make their own choices even though it may hurt us to the core. Let me ask you this—Would it make any difference if you said something to him? It wouldn’t necessarily hurt to voice your opinion, very gently, and then drop it. Give it over to God as you often say.

You have good instincts and a loving heart, Mama. You know your son. Go with that. Don’t get too invested in his problems as they are his problems, not yours.
 

lovemysons

Well-Known Member
Nandina…I just said to Josh,

“Josh …I think one of these days we need to talk. I think it would be good for both of us. I hope you’ll reach out to me someday so we can get some things out.

Josh texted me back and said,
“There’s nothing to talk about
Talking ain’t gonna change anything…. So ….

Plain and simple I’m not mad at you
I just live my life and keep going every day.

I appreciate the efforts you put in to my life when we were younger, but today we have very little in common,
And nothing is going to change between my family and you, so I don’t think there is much to discuss, I am sorry, life is the way it is.”

This makes me so sad everyone. He won’t have a conversation with me. I think he is ashamed of me. I think he is afraid of me and my bipolar disorder. He doesn’t understand and doesn’t seem to want to.

LMS
 

Beta

Well-Known Member
LMS,
I too am sad that your son, who is your one remaining living son, would say this to you. After losing his brother, your other son, you would think he would see the fragility of life and value maintaining his relationship with his parents. If nothing else, you would think he would have compassion on you after losing your other son. I'm flabbergasted, and I'm so sorry you received this text from him. Hugs to you.
 

lovemysons

Well-Known Member
Thank you Blighty and Beta. I’m still trying to sort through my emotions. The one I sang, “You are my sunshine” to as my first born. The one I considered my little superstar, the one I stood by when drug rehab said “give him up to the state and concentrate on Jarod who has more of a chance”. The one I held his face in my hands tears streaming down both of our faces and promised him I would be by his side throughout his prison term and so on.

And this is what he has to say to me at the end of the day.

Sometimes I don’t know what to think about my life or what God is trying to tell me.

LMS
 

MommaTried24

Active Member
LMS he will live to regret this message someday. I'm so sorry. You don't deserve this and it's totally a reflection of who he's chosen to be in life. How any son could treat their own mother this way is beyond me. So he's basically too good for you now? Shame on him! Motherhood sometimes can be the most unrewarding and ungrateful thing I've ever experienced after giving so much of myself. You've gone above and beyond trying to have a relationship with him. I wouldn't reach out again for a good long while.

Sometimes I don’t know what to think about my life or what God is trying to tell me.

I feel your pain. I feel this way too. Sending you lots of love and big hugs!
 

Crayola14

Member
The “disciplined drinking” can work for a while. But, then a stressor comes, and it’s full blown addiction all over again. It’s best to just avoid alcohol like the plague.

I’m not sure why, but somehow, I think the estrangement has something to do with his religious beliefs. I can’t explain. I sort of feel like he’s acting this way because of his belief system. I wish I could explain why I’m sensing that type of vibe.
 

Deni D

Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.
Staff member
Sometimes I don’t know what to think about my life or what God is trying to tell me.
Maybe God is trying to tell him something an he's not listening.

Many young people grow away from their parents as they get older, different lifestyles, values, geographical reasons and so on. But the one's who seemingly reject their parents, the parents who were good enough parents, stood by them the best they could during difficulties I believe are running from something. There's a good chance his "something" is going to catch up to him at some point. If you have the strength I think leaving things as they are for now is a good idea. I do think at some point he's going to be humbled in some way, because things happen in life to us all, and he will know where to go for loving support.

Love,
Deni
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Should I let him go on living with his own devices without my input? Should I just leave it alone and let him learn?

Or should I speak up and say something? Would it even matter or just make things worse?
I am so sorry Josh has chosen to be this way. I will tell you very briefly what I think.

I don't think this has anything at all to do with you. Much less, with your mental illness. I think who Josh is running from is himself. The truth of his life, a part of himself he fears or feelings he fears. It is much easier (and a lie) to put his parents' names on it.

He clearly said, no. He does not want to talk. He did not leave the door open not even a crack. That is not because he doesn't love you. He is running from himself and doesn't love himself. Like Deni said, "he is running from something." Himself.

This is very common, in my experience.
Until he comes to the point where he chooses to open the door, I think pushing him would lead to heartbreak. And would not accomplish what yu seek.

As far as warning him off bad behavior and bad choices, it's not our place. That is the one thing I have learned and know by all these years on the board. I believe Josh will come back to you, in his own time.

Meanwhile, I believe you have work to do (not that you asked--sorry) on self-acceptance. You had a "crackup" so to speak because life broke you. This happens to all of us. You have not one thing in the world to feel vulnerable about. You are very open. it is a gift. You are just perfect in my book. Own this.
 

lovemysons

Well-Known Member
Thank you Momma Tried, Crayola, Deni and Copa. I appreciate all of y’all’s thoughts and care.

Deni and Copa…I think you’re right. I think he is running. Running from his past. He was quite the hellion as a teenager and really the leader between he and his brother who died.
He may even blame himself to a degree for his little brother’s drug use or other things that I don’t know about.

Josh was very rebellious at rehab as a teenager. He is also very intelligent, Rehab advised us to give him up to the State of Texas to raise in his remaining years and concentrate on the one they felt had the best chance of recovery, Jarod. They told us Josh was likely to grow up to be a con man or dangerous criminal mastermind of some sort. Josh was at rehab 6 months. Jarod was at rehab 4 months. This is when they were between 13-15 years old.

Josh has turned his life around significantly since then. At 18 he was going to prison for stealing computer equipment from his dad’s employer to sell for money to buy Meth. After prison he no longer did Meth but still drank until his wife got pregnant and they started going to her parents church.

I don’t go to church. But I fiercely believe in God and trust Him with my life now. I had begun to lose my faith in God when my sons began their drug use as teenagers. I found it again after my brain recovered from the psychotic breakdown I had while Josh was in prison for the stealing.

I am a gambler and go to the casino nearly everyday with $60-$100. I am hooked but we still pay our bills have excellent credit and still save money in 401k etc.

I smoked cigarettes for 40 years but quit in April as I was beginning to suffocate trying to sleep. I don’t plan to ever smoke again and I never smoked around Josh’s girls.

I have Mental illness. And I have had problems with Alcohol in my life but that was long before Josh can remember.

Copa I am not perfect by any means. But I appreciate that I am good enough for you. Your friendship here means a lot to me as I really don’t have any meaningful friendships in real life. I have also been estranged from my mom and cousins since Jarod died and lost a so called friend recently. I am trying to accept that my people are 2 oldest grandchildren from Jarod, my husband and my daughter. That is all. I am hurt by this as when I was a little girl growing up with a single party mom who liked to move all the time with no brothers or sisters or dad, all I wanted when I grew up was a big happy family. God had something else in mind. I am trying to accept what is but some days it’s very hard Copa.

Thank you all for caring. I will leave Josh alone and like you said Deni, be here again for him when he needs loving support.

I love our board.
Y’all are the best!
Love, LMS
 
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Dad34

Member
LMS, I agree with the counsel given by others in this thread. I can’t help but believe that Josh will someday come to regret his treatment of you, though it could be a long while. In the meantime, take care of and nurture your own heart, life, and faith. I believe you are known deeply, and you are loved more than you can imagine by God; He is near and willing to bring healing to your wounded heart. I am praying for you and Josh, and for peace and comfort for you. Thank you for your prayers for my daughter and me too. ❤️
 

lovemysons

Well-Known Member
Dad…your words, which I read last night before I prayed and drifted off to sleep, comforted my soul so much. Thank you for this. I know God loves me and loves my fractured family as well. Time will tell where this all goes. Often in life I have been temporarily dismayed only to find out years later how God was working in my life. This may take a long while before Josh reaches out to me and the situation resolves itself. I pray he doesn’t lose all that he’s worked so hard for in the meantime by still dabbling with alcohol.

God loves you too Dad. You are such a blessing. I prayed again for you and your daughter last night. As my husband has often said throughout our challenging years, this is not over, it’s only half time, don’t give up.

Thank you for your care and prayers.
Many coming back to you.
Love,
LMS
 

LetGo

Member
A little background.
My oldest son Josh was involved with Meth when he was younger as he struggled with drug and alcohol addiction just like our son that died did. He even went to prison for a year for stealing $10,000 worth of computer equipment from an employer of my husband’s.

After he got out of prison he went to work for my husband again. He was ALWAYS a hard worker unlike his brother who died homeless with no shoes on his feet.

He got involved with a woman 10 years older than him that was married at the time.
He still drank but quit using Meth. This woman divorced her husband for my son. Soon afterwards she became pregnant from my son.

Josh started changing. He and his wife started going to a very charismatic church. He stopped drinking.

Our relationship began to change sometime around then too.

My husband found a new job and Josh continued growing the company my husband had helped him start.

We didn’t see them very often because they lived much further away from us and near his wife’s parents and their church. Wife’s parents were very religious people who kinda seemed holier than thou to me.

I think Josh began to be ashamed of us. At least me with mental illness/Bipolar disorder and psychotic breakdown that involved religious overtones. It was very horrifying. Yes. I know what the devil looks like!

I think he is afraid of my mental illness and doesn’t understand it. The psychotic breakdown and Bipolar disorder diagnosis happened while he was in prison.

Years went by and I would only get a text from him on Mother’s Day or my birthday. We would go visit our granddaughters a couple of times a year…summertime and Christmas as it was always so hard to arrange anything with them since Josh works all the time.

Josh didn’t go to his brother’s funeral 2 1/2 years ago. He said in text…

Sorry mom.
“I’m
sorry for the loss of Jarod.
I’m sorry for his choices.
I’m sorry he hurt his children
And y’all.
I’m sorry he never took advantage of any of his chances to change his life.”

This hurt me terribly. I told him Yes! But he was your brother. You loved him!

Fast forward to today.
Josh is a millionaire. He is also a workaholic. All of his girls go to very expensive private Christian school. They live in a big fancy house. They get plastic surgery. They go to church and I think they think…they are the perfect family.

But here’s the catch. Josh was drinking at his last company party. His dad has warned him that he used to be a binge drinker. He said he can have a drink at dinner and he is fine.

I’m worried about his future. And not just his but his whole family and all the families that he supports through the jobs he’s given to their fathers who work for him.

I want to say something to him. I invited him out to lunch the other day. He texted back and said, “probably not I am working.”

I love him still. Even after the estrangement. Even after he wouldn’t even be by our side and go to his own brother’s funeral.

I was there for Josh when he went to prison. I visited him often, wrote him letters and put money on his books till I had the breakdown.
His dad, my husband, had nothing to do with him while he was in prison. Josh cost his dad his job.

Should I let him go on living with his own devices without my input? Should I just leave it alone and let him learn?

Or should I speak up and say something? Would it even matter or just make things worse?

Thanks for reading this lengthy post. For caring and for your thoughts in advance.

Love,
LMS
 

LetGo

Member
A little background.
My oldest son Josh was involved with Meth when he was younger as he struggled with drug and alcohol addiction just like our son that died did. He even went to prison for a year for stealing $10,000 worth of computer equipment from an employer of my husband’s.

After he got out of prison he went to work for my husband again. He was ALWAYS a hard worker unlike his brother who died homeless with no shoes on his feet.

He got involved with a woman 10 years older than him that was married at the time.
He still drank but quit using Meth. This woman divorced her husband for my son. Soon afterwards she became pregnant from my son.

Josh started changing. He and his wife started going to a very charismatic church. He stopped drinking.

Our relationship began to change sometime around then too.

My husband found a new job and Josh continued growing the company my husband had helped him start.

We didn’t see them very often because they lived much further away from us and near his wife’s parents and their church. Wife’s parents were very religious people who kinda seemed holier than thou to me.

I think Josh began to be ashamed of us. At least me with mental illness/Bipolar disorder and psychotic breakdown that involved religious overtones. It was very horrifying. Yes. I know what the devil looks like!

I think he is afraid of my mental illness and doesn’t understand it. The psychotic breakdown and Bipolar disorder diagnosis happened while he was in prison.

Years went by and I would only get a text from him on Mother’s Day or my birthday. We would go visit our granddaughters a couple of times a year…summertime and Christmas as it was always so hard to arrange anything with them since Josh works all the time.

Josh didn’t go to his brother’s funeral 2 1/2 years ago. He said in text…

Sorry mom.
“I’m
sorry for the loss of Jarod.
I’m sorry for his choices.
I’m sorry he hurt his children
And y’all.
I’m sorry he never took advantage of any of his chances to change his life.”

This hurt me terribly. I told him Yes! But he was your brother. You loved him!

Fast forward to today.
Josh is a millionaire. He is also a workaholic. All of his girls go to very expensive private Christian school. They live in a big fancy house. They get plastic surgery. They go to church and I think they think…they are the perfect family.

But here’s the catch. Josh was drinking at his last company party. His dad has warned him that he used to be a binge drinker. He said he can have a drink at dinner and he is fine.

I’m worried about his future. And not just his but his whole family and all the families that he supports through the jobs he’s given to their fathers who work for him.

I want to say something to him. I invited him out to lunch the other day. He texted back and said, “probably not I am working.”

I love him still. Even after the estrangement. Even after he wouldn’t even be by our side and go to his own brother’s funeral.

I was there for Josh when he went to prison. I visited him often, wrote him letters and put money on his books till I had the breakdown.
His dad, my husband, had nothing to do with him while he was in prison. Josh cost his dad his job.

Should I let him go on living with his own devices without my input? Should I just leave it alone and let him learn?

Or should I speak up and say something? Would it even matter or just make things worse?

Thanks for reading this lengthy post. For caring and for your thoughts in advance.

Love,
LMS
As hard as it is to deal with, it sounds like Josh just wants to "keep to his own". He is an adult and right now, he is successful. If it were me, I'd just leave it alone. Hugs, LetGo
 

Dad34

Member
LMS, thank you for your prayers and kind words. I like the analogy of this being only half time, so don’t give up. It’s so easy to jump ahead and assume the worst WILL happen, but we don’t know that. I think you were right to try to tell Josh about your very legitimate concerns, but he made it clear he didn’t want to hear it. So, you tried and you should feel good about that. Blessings to you and we’ll keep praying.
 

lovemysons

Well-Known Member
Let go…yes, I am going to leave him alone. If or when he falls down I’ll be here to help pick him back up. Hopefully he will treat me better in the future. Hugs back

Dad…yes, keep praying and keep moving forward with our lives. Don’t let the heartache break us. God has a plan and often we can’t see what that is all about till much later. No use assuming the worst will happen. God is full of surprises!

Hang in there.
Love LMS
 

Blighty

Member
LMS you said that you realise your family now is your daughter, 2 oldest grandkids and Husband. Truth! I'm saying cherish them and focus on them.

My sibling is the avoidant, absent, withholding, controlling one first to my late Mom who had a serious life limiting illness, and now to my elderly Dad ( and me). To be honest I'm glad that I don't have to walk on eggshells around them anymore because they chose not to have contact anymore (long story) or until they choose otherwise.

It really annoys me when my Dad says, have I heard from them? By their very absence they still get my Dad's wistful attention. I really resent that. Of course I understand Dad's feelings and it's very complicated, but it feels like they have a trump card over him. (guilt)
 

lovemysons

Well-Known Member
I’m sorry Blighty. I’m having trouble following your family situation. Can you explain more.

Today I had lunch with my daughter and granddaughter. I read to her the correspondence between me and her brother and asked her for her thoughts. She said, “The squeaky wheel gets the grease.”
I began to weep. 😢

Not because of her brother but because for most of her childhood her brothers got most of my attention since she was the good girl. I apologized to her today through my tears. She said it’s okay mom. I learned to be independent this way.

God help me. I told her so many days I should have taken her by the hand and left the house with her to go to the park and left her brothers at home to destroy each other.

How I wish I could go back sometimes and have a do over. My daughter has such a sweet strong soul. I don’t deserve her.
Hopefully I keep making the effort to get closer with her now. God knows she deserves it. by the way she struggles with believing in God. Sad.

LMS
 
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