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What works for you? Help with lying/manipulative teen needed.
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<blockquote data-quote="Otto von Bismark" data-source="post: 700459" data-attributes="member: 12905"><p><strong>"My son doesn't seem to understand that the things he does are wrong, or why they're wrong, and shows no remorse or desire to improve himself. "</strong></p><p></p><p>Yep. Totally resonates with me. My son sounds similar. He had to write a letter to the child he sexually offended (offense was by text message, not physical, thank God), and he couldn't complete the letter. He kept getting angry that we (the sexual deviance expert, and myself) wanted him to apologize. He couldn't see where he had done anything wrong. He kept saying that <em>they were texts </em>and he didn't hurt anyone.</p><p></p><p><strong>"I told about how he wanted to play baseball in the spring, and how I was going to allow it if he made responsible choices until then."</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p>I'm wondering if this is too long of a time to expect him to sustain a behavior in order for a reward. Also, "responsible choices" seem to abstract for a kid who struggles to put together conclusions or see abstracts. Not trying to pick on you, just trying to help. I have tried many incentives that have failed and ultimately, for us, simplifying everything into day-to-day management has helped -- both for my son's understanding and ability to sustain a behavior, and for my husband's and my own mental health.</p><p></p><p>We admitted my son to psychiatric ward of hospital yesterday. He is hearing voices, has been for some time, but just told us on Friday afternoon. We got him in right away. He has medication reactions and doesn't do well on them, so they are trying some medications out in the hospital where they can monitor him. I went and saw him tonight and it was very difficult to see and had to be ten times worse for him. He was terribly unhappy. I told him the thing I always tell him:</p><p> </p><p>"We just have to do today today. Tomorrow we do tomorrow." This allows him to not think about tomorrow, and the potential failure he will experience. He can simplify. He just had do do the right thing today, and in some cases... <em>simply get through the day.</em></p><p></p><p>That helps him keep the focus on the immediate. </p><p></p><p>I don't have any advice on how to get to a detatched place. It may sound alarming to some people. I mean, I am his mother, but it's something that I felt I had to do. My husband and I talked about this tonight. We both sometimes feel terribly detached, like we are workers in a hospital unit or something and we worry about it, and worry that we are bad people, but we decided that it is healthy, and self-preserving. If we got upset over his behaviors instead of handling his behaviors, then we would be upset all the time, and he would still have the behaviors. </p><p></p><p>I don't think we made a decision as much as we did evolve...</p><p></p><p>We have 5 kids. 2 of them are very similar....you just have to look at them funny, or tell them that they disappointed us, and it would break them down...it wrecked them to know that and our disapproval was enough incentive to make them strive to be better in some ways. Some kids don't respond to that. Two of our other kids are also similar to each other in nature. If we said we were disappointed in them, they would say," Oh yeah? Tell me the ways you are disappointed, and we can debate the merit of your feelings..." LOL. Totally different kids. They would rationalize us to pieces, and got value from intellectual discourse and analysis. It was tiring. If we tried that on the other two kids, they would have zoned out to where time was wasted.</p><p></p><p>Our last kid...our Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) kid, none of that mattered because he cannot connect to the emotions we were having, so we stopped exhibiting the emotions. Once we stopped exhibiting the emotions, we realized that we could function without anger, disappointment, etc. some of the time. We just told him what he needed to do, or what was wrong, and we listened to his end of things, because this is a child we are trying to encourage to share feelings. </p><p></p><p>Of course, some of the time it still gets to us terribly. We are not robots, but our way of communicating with him changed to be very logical, matter-of-fact, no guilting, no real emotion. Just real straight shooting. It took a long time to get there, but it is better for us. He also has Asperger's, by the way, so this helps him very much to keep things simple with the emotions.</p><p></p><p>It takes time. Also, I don't know how to handle some of the particular difficulties you are having, as our son is pretty passive, low energy, and, sadly, also not bright, so he can't really rationalize, can't process quickly, and doesn't often connect things. I do think you have to find a place where his manipulation doesn't affect you, and doesn't get a reaction out of you. I'm not saying be so flat you are not responsive. That is mean. I'm saying don't let him see that he is getting to you emotionally. Storytelling for effect is manipulative. So is appearing to change his mind about baseball. </p><p>I think natural consequences is best. If he is failing class, let him fail. He can repeat the grade. If you are reminding him, giving him the academic support he needs in and out of school, and he chooses to not work, it's okay. Ninth grade might be more fun the second time around. DOCUMENT ALL THAT YOU DO TO SUPPORT HIM AT HOME with a log, so no one (school or ex) can say you are not supporting him. Ex: "Tuesday, November 4, during homework time, he refused to sit down at table during homework time/refused to show me his planner, etc." Don't tell him you are keeping log, just do it quietly.</p><p>If it gets bad enough to where things are breaking down, then perhaps the school will step in with an EBD placement for him, or some more support. </p><p></p><p>Does he respond to logical talking? Like legit logical talking (that is not a lecture )when he is calm?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Otto von Bismark, post: 700459, member: 12905"] [B]"My son doesn't seem to understand that the things he does are wrong, or why they're wrong, and shows no remorse or desire to improve himself. "[/B] Yep. Totally resonates with me. My son sounds similar. He had to write a letter to the child he sexually offended (offense was by text message, not physical, thank God), and he couldn't complete the letter. He kept getting angry that we (the sexual deviance expert, and myself) wanted him to apologize. He couldn't see where he had done anything wrong. He kept saying that [I]they were texts [/I]and he didn't hurt anyone. [B]"I told about how he wanted to play baseball in the spring, and how I was going to allow it if he made responsible choices until then." [/B] I'm wondering if this is too long of a time to expect him to sustain a behavior in order for a reward. Also, "responsible choices" seem to abstract for a kid who struggles to put together conclusions or see abstracts. Not trying to pick on you, just trying to help. I have tried many incentives that have failed and ultimately, for us, simplifying everything into day-to-day management has helped -- both for my son's understanding and ability to sustain a behavior, and for my husband's and my own mental health. We admitted my son to psychiatric ward of hospital yesterday. He is hearing voices, has been for some time, but just told us on Friday afternoon. We got him in right away. He has medication reactions and doesn't do well on them, so they are trying some medications out in the hospital where they can monitor him. I went and saw him tonight and it was very difficult to see and had to be ten times worse for him. He was terribly unhappy. I told him the thing I always tell him: "We just have to do today today. Tomorrow we do tomorrow." This allows him to not think about tomorrow, and the potential failure he will experience. He can simplify. He just had do do the right thing today, and in some cases... [I]simply get through the day.[/I] That helps him keep the focus on the immediate. I don't have any advice on how to get to a detatched place. It may sound alarming to some people. I mean, I am his mother, but it's something that I felt I had to do. My husband and I talked about this tonight. We both sometimes feel terribly detached, like we are workers in a hospital unit or something and we worry about it, and worry that we are bad people, but we decided that it is healthy, and self-preserving. If we got upset over his behaviors instead of handling his behaviors, then we would be upset all the time, and he would still have the behaviors. I don't think we made a decision as much as we did evolve... We have 5 kids. 2 of them are very similar....you just have to look at them funny, or tell them that they disappointed us, and it would break them down...it wrecked them to know that and our disapproval was enough incentive to make them strive to be better in some ways. Some kids don't respond to that. Two of our other kids are also similar to each other in nature. If we said we were disappointed in them, they would say," Oh yeah? Tell me the ways you are disappointed, and we can debate the merit of your feelings..." LOL. Totally different kids. They would rationalize us to pieces, and got value from intellectual discourse and analysis. It was tiring. If we tried that on the other two kids, they would have zoned out to where time was wasted. Our last kid...our Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) kid, none of that mattered because he cannot connect to the emotions we were having, so we stopped exhibiting the emotions. Once we stopped exhibiting the emotions, we realized that we could function without anger, disappointment, etc. some of the time. We just told him what he needed to do, or what was wrong, and we listened to his end of things, because this is a child we are trying to encourage to share feelings. Of course, some of the time it still gets to us terribly. We are not robots, but our way of communicating with him changed to be very logical, matter-of-fact, no guilting, no real emotion. Just real straight shooting. It took a long time to get there, but it is better for us. He also has Asperger's, by the way, so this helps him very much to keep things simple with the emotions. It takes time. Also, I don't know how to handle some of the particular difficulties you are having, as our son is pretty passive, low energy, and, sadly, also not bright, so he can't really rationalize, can't process quickly, and doesn't often connect things. I do think you have to find a place where his manipulation doesn't affect you, and doesn't get a reaction out of you. I'm not saying be so flat you are not responsive. That is mean. I'm saying don't let him see that he is getting to you emotionally. Storytelling for effect is manipulative. So is appearing to change his mind about baseball. I think natural consequences is best. If he is failing class, let him fail. He can repeat the grade. If you are reminding him, giving him the academic support he needs in and out of school, and he chooses to not work, it's okay. Ninth grade might be more fun the second time around. DOCUMENT ALL THAT YOU DO TO SUPPORT HIM AT HOME with a log, so no one (school or ex) can say you are not supporting him. Ex: "Tuesday, November 4, during homework time, he refused to sit down at table during homework time/refused to show me his planner, etc." Don't tell him you are keeping log, just do it quietly. If it gets bad enough to where things are breaking down, then perhaps the school will step in with an EBD placement for him, or some more support. Does he respond to logical talking? Like legit logical talking (that is not a lecture )when he is calm? [/QUOTE]
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