What would you do????
- Thread starter timer lady
- Start date
flutterby
Fly away!
I've rethought this.
You let kt go on these solo walks because she needs the exercise, but also to rebuild trust. By offering strange men something if they buy her cigarettes, she has shown she can't be trusted.
This smacks of manipulation. And I don't like that. Does she tell you these things for the shock factor, or is there just complete lack of guile?
But, then, if you take away the privilege of going for walks by herself is she going to run?
Either way it stinks.
And that's exactly why we gave in to difficult child 2. Because if we didn't he'd steal them, or steal money, or sell drugs, and take off for days on end. Which, he was already doing, by the way. So, in the end he got what he wanted and nothing else changed.
Except that he has *finally* stopped disappearing on us. But, that's only because his friends have moved on.
You let kt go on these solo walks because she needs the exercise, but also to rebuild trust. By offering strange men something if they buy her cigarettes, she has shown she can't be trusted.
This smacks of manipulation. And I don't like that. Does she tell you these things for the shock factor, or is there just complete lack of guile?
But, then, if you take away the privilege of going for walks by herself is she going to run?
Either way it stinks.
And that's exactly why we gave in to difficult child 2. Because if we didn't he'd steal them, or steal money, or sell drugs, and take off for days on end. Which, he was already doing, by the way. So, in the end he got what he wanted and nothing else changed.
Except that he has *finally* stopped disappearing on us. But, that's only because his friends have moved on.
klmno
Active Member
I like Susie's idea- and I agree that there is probably a whole lot of manipulation in this approach from kt. And I doubt giving her cigs is going to stop it, based on the history Linda has posted.
To claarify my earlier post- what happens in this state is if/when a juvenile gets in big trouble legally (and unfortunately I think this is a future possibility for kt), a family assessment by a certain division of DSS is done. This isn't CPS but another section of DSS. They do not have to see abuse or neglect or the typpical stuff for the child to be removed from home. All they have to determine is that the particualr home is not conducive to the child/teen staying out of trouble legally and sometimes they change the kid's "placement" just to see if it helps if the kid repetitively gets into trouble. What caused my concern in this case is that if I remember correctly, someone in kt's life had implied before that maybe Linda "couldn't" take care of kt.
So I didn't mean to imply that you could likely end up in jail or have cps called over this, just to suggest that you cover all bases- but Susie's suggestion would do that well. After all, following professional's advice was the only thing that kept the judge and DSS on my side.
To claarify my earlier post- what happens in this state is if/when a juvenile gets in big trouble legally (and unfortunately I think this is a future possibility for kt), a family assessment by a certain division of DSS is done. This isn't CPS but another section of DSS. They do not have to see abuse or neglect or the typpical stuff for the child to be removed from home. All they have to determine is that the particualr home is not conducive to the child/teen staying out of trouble legally and sometimes they change the kid's "placement" just to see if it helps if the kid repetitively gets into trouble. What caused my concern in this case is that if I remember correctly, someone in kt's life had implied before that maybe Linda "couldn't" take care of kt.
So I didn't mean to imply that you could likely end up in jail or have cps called over this, just to suggest that you cover all bases- but Susie's suggestion would do that well. After all, following professional's advice was the only thing that kept the judge and DSS on my side.
timer lady
Queen of Hearts
There's no doubt that manipulation comes into play; that with no impulse control, dissociative states & the like. However, I'm not the mom I once was ~ I refuse to walk on pins & needles because kt has entered the building.
I let her know my line in the sand; because it is in sand it can change. As to allowing her to walk - it's been a trust building adventure. Yes, she ran 7 weeks ago & she'll likely run again. In fact, I don't give this 6 months before she's placed elsewhere again. Therefore, I will not emotionally invest myself as I once have. I will not get into the nonstop haranguing concerning exercise & the like. I will not get into an "it's not fair" argument. I'm no longer conditioned to parenting a difficult child.
What this comes down to ladies, is doing what I must do as a parent while maintaining my health. I'm never again, going to get to such a point of stress that it affects my day to day health. I've already been reported to the county as a vulnerable adult.
kt walks - doesn't get home on time, she knows the consequence. Personally, I don't care if kt smokes - I just don't want her to contract a life threatening disease via payment for those cigarettes when I can get her a pack a week instead ~ she's been in school & taught from day one about smoking & the risks.
I no longer worry about who she's talking to or even if she's meeting up with someone. I expect her home by curfew. I expect her to comply by the house rules & I expect & deserve respect.
All the other stuff is just stuff. kt will survive it or she won't AND I love her beyond belief. I'm to put me first, period. AND I just want "peace in the land".
I let her know my line in the sand; because it is in sand it can change. As to allowing her to walk - it's been a trust building adventure. Yes, she ran 7 weeks ago & she'll likely run again. In fact, I don't give this 6 months before she's placed elsewhere again. Therefore, I will not emotionally invest myself as I once have. I will not get into the nonstop haranguing concerning exercise & the like. I will not get into an "it's not fair" argument. I'm no longer conditioned to parenting a difficult child.
What this comes down to ladies, is doing what I must do as a parent while maintaining my health. I'm never again, going to get to such a point of stress that it affects my day to day health. I've already been reported to the county as a vulnerable adult.
kt walks - doesn't get home on time, she knows the consequence. Personally, I don't care if kt smokes - I just don't want her to contract a life threatening disease via payment for those cigarettes when I can get her a pack a week instead ~ she's been in school & taught from day one about smoking & the risks.
I no longer worry about who she's talking to or even if she's meeting up with someone. I expect her home by curfew. I expect her to comply by the house rules & I expect & deserve respect.
All the other stuff is just stuff. kt will survive it or she won't AND I love her beyond belief. I'm to put me first, period. AND I just want "peace in the land".
DammitJanet
Well-Known Member
Linda, I think you have a good handle on things.
Steely
Active Member
I have not read all of the responses, so I apologize in advance - but I would cave on this one - and give her smokes.
If you would have asked me a year ago I would have said the opposite - but now that I have seen what difficult children do to get cigarettes I would rather eliminate that focus by providing the nicotine, and have them focus on their well being and mental health.
If you would have asked me a year ago I would have said the opposite - but now that I have seen what difficult children do to get cigarettes I would rather eliminate that focus by providing the nicotine, and have them focus on their well being and mental health.
compassion
Member
This is how I handle it. I give her an allowance. She buys her own cigs. I will not buy them for her,never have. She is 16 and has a driver license of a freind who resembles her so she can buy cigs. Sallie
hearts and roses
Mind Reader
timer lady
Queen of Hearts
Thanks, ladies. kt has always given me a honeymoon period ~ not this time around.
I, on the other hand, have begun to build an emotional shield about myself. There are conflicts of interest going on - my doctors do not want kt here because of my health issues & the stress; the state wants kt home no matter what (a budget thing).
by the way, I'm not giving up on kt - the history of late with her antics have left me at most a 6 month door before something explosive occurs & she ends up in ER. It's the way kt operates.
I, on the other hand, have begun to build an emotional shield about myself. There are conflicts of interest going on - my doctors do not want kt here because of my health issues & the stress; the state wants kt home no matter what (a budget thing).
by the way, I'm not giving up on kt - the history of late with her antics have left me at most a 6 month door before something explosive occurs & she ends up in ER. It's the way kt operates.
flutterby
Fly away!
Linda, I don't think anyone here would think for one second that you're giving up on kt.
You have to pick your battles. Like I said earlier, we caved on this issue with difficult child 2 because of all the things going on, this was the least of our worries. We had/have bigger fish to fry.
You have to pick your battles. Like I said earlier, we caved on this issue with difficult child 2 because of all the things going on, this was the least of our worries. We had/have bigger fish to fry.
Given kt's patterns of behavior, her early imprinting that to get someone to be happy with you, you have to let them do certain (unspeakable in this context) things, kt is almost certain to have to really work through the trading for things she wants behavior.
Though she will have to work through this, she doesn't have to work through this NOW. If you can give her a little more time to grow and mature before she tackles this, it can only do good things in the long run.
Do what you, the mom who loves her more than anything, think is right. You have always had amazingly clear instincts regarding your children. Go and buy the cigs. Give her a little more time to mature. What you think is right for her IS right for her.
Cause you are the Mom.
Your docs and the state and kt are all going to do whatever they will do. Decide on what you want and don't want and then plan your behavior accordingly.
Many hugs,
Susie
Though she will have to work through this, she doesn't have to work through this NOW. If you can give her a little more time to grow and mature before she tackles this, it can only do good things in the long run.
Do what you, the mom who loves her more than anything, think is right. You have always had amazingly clear instincts regarding your children. Go and buy the cigs. Give her a little more time to mature. What you think is right for her IS right for her.
Cause you are the Mom.
Your docs and the state and kt are all going to do whatever they will do. Decide on what you want and don't want and then plan your behavior accordingly.
Many hugs,
Susie
Bean
Member
To me it sounds like you have a much bigger issue going on (or she does), than cigarettes. I don't know if she was just pushing your buttons by saying that she will do _________ for smokes or what, but it sounds pretty ridiculous.
Me personally - NO. I wouldn't buy them. My daughter threatens to do all sorts of things if she's not given money (like prostitution, drug dealing, etc.). Never seems to occur to her to GET A JOB or anything, though.
It is a slippery slope when you start doing things because the child threatens to do something unsavory if you don't.
Me personally - NO. I wouldn't buy them. My daughter threatens to do all sorts of things if she's not given money (like prostitution, drug dealing, etc.). Never seems to occur to her to GET A JOB or anything, though.
It is a slippery slope when you start doing things because the child threatens to do something unsavory if you don't.
timer lady
Queen of Hearts
Bean, with all due respect, I'd bet my house that my difficult child would do this - with her hx of sexual abuse in her bio home you wouldn't believe her hyper sexuality & how little she cares about herself.
Sex is a way to protect herself, to make men like her. I never put anything past my daughter - especially with her antics over the past year.
Is she manipulating me - most likely. Would I protect her from strange men who would take advantage of a difficult child teen & potentially life threatening STD's - you betcha. I don't make decisions of this nature lightly. So if this sounds hinky to you I'd like you to walk in my shoes for just a week. One week.
Sex is a way to protect herself, to make men like her. I never put anything past my daughter - especially with her antics over the past year.
Is she manipulating me - most likely. Would I protect her from strange men who would take advantage of a difficult child teen & potentially life threatening STD's - you betcha. I don't make decisions of this nature lightly. So if this sounds hinky to you I'd like you to walk in my shoes for just a week. One week.
With my kids, I would not provide the cigars but then my kids have a different background. They have not lived through Kt's first few years of life before she came to you. They are not fighting the battle of overcoming what those years did to her.
I think for Kt, I would go ahead and provide the cigars with some boundaries (if possible). Her background has proven that she will and certainly could have (though we pray she didn't) do _________ for cigars.
It may be easier for you to provide the cigars if you first have a plan of action. Set limits - how many per day or week - where/when in at home can she smoke, ect.
Do you or did your husband smoke? It is harder to push the "thou shall not smoke" card if a parent has smoked. If either of you have, what are the limits you put on yourself? Did you have certain places around the house that were off limits to smoking? Did you have a "schedule" of smoking? (some people smoke all day long, others at certain times). Did you only smoke when stressed or visiting with others who did? These are things you can share with Kt to plant the seeds that there are reasons behind smoking - some are habits that people want to break but can not, and some are more controlled such as only with other smokers.
So, I guess I vote "Yes, provide them" but add TRY to set some limits on them. It will be healthier for her and you will feel better about not giving her total freedom in this area.
I also like others agree with whatever your decision is. You have always known what to look for in your kids and how to help them through things. You are well aware of the two ways a decision can go (the right way or the wrong way - where will this decision lead in the long run?). That is why some decisions like this is difficult - you KNOW how Kt can use it against you but you need to balance her well being into the picture.
I think for Kt, I would go ahead and provide the cigars with some boundaries (if possible). Her background has proven that she will and certainly could have (though we pray she didn't) do _________ for cigars.
It may be easier for you to provide the cigars if you first have a plan of action. Set limits - how many per day or week - where/when in at home can she smoke, ect.
Do you or did your husband smoke? It is harder to push the "thou shall not smoke" card if a parent has smoked. If either of you have, what are the limits you put on yourself? Did you have certain places around the house that were off limits to smoking? Did you have a "schedule" of smoking? (some people smoke all day long, others at certain times). Did you only smoke when stressed or visiting with others who did? These are things you can share with Kt to plant the seeds that there are reasons behind smoking - some are habits that people want to break but can not, and some are more controlled such as only with other smokers.
So, I guess I vote "Yes, provide them" but add TRY to set some limits on them. It will be healthier for her and you will feel better about not giving her total freedom in this area.
I also like others agree with whatever your decision is. You have always known what to look for in your kids and how to help them through things. You are well aware of the two ways a decision can go (the right way or the wrong way - where will this decision lead in the long run?). That is why some decisions like this is difficult - you KNOW how Kt can use it against you but you need to balance her well being into the picture.
Bean--
It DOES sound pretty ridiculous....and yet, that's exactly how some of these kids are thinking (or not thinking, if you prefer). Dealing drugs or selling sex to get what they want sounds like perfectly reasonable solutions to them because they do not put a value on themselves at all.
And it does make a parent start to look for out-of-the-box solutions.
--DaisyFace
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