Whatwould you help with and what Occupational Therapist (OT)....

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by toughlovin, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    Ok so i know that eventually my son will call us and want something from us. I am thinking of vwrious scenarios so i can be clear and prepared in my head.... I would appreciate any feedback or any major possibilities i am missing.

    1. He is arrested. I will not pick him up or bail him out. I might consult his lawyer because if he is arrestd he is probably looking at serious jail time....i suspect if this happes no lawyer will keep him out of jail.

    2. He wants to go back to Tx center where he has been at but has no money for ticket. I a thinkig i would offer him a bus ticket since it looks to me like he blew off the plane ticket he had just throwing our money away.

    3. We are still willing to pay rent at a reputable sober house but we need to check it out and talk to them.

    4. We are willing to pay for food but we will not give him money directly, has to go through someone at sober house.

    5. He will call needing money for something and it will sound reasonable....answer is no. We will only pay for rent andmoney thru 3rd parry.

    6. girlfriend dumps him and he calls and is feeling suicidal. This actually seems likely at this point. My sense is i cant walk away at this moment.

    Any others?
  2. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    I am struggling with that too. Our difficult children are the same age and I fully expected to be (happily) supporting my 19 yo easy child for many more years.

    So, I think we will attempt to support the easy child that has been eaten alive by the difficult child. Originally, we were willing to pay his rent directly to his LL. That's off the table. But I'd be willing to let him move back home under strict standards. (which I know doesn't work for you). If he wants to stay in his college town, he needs to support himself.

    If he got arrested, I'd be willing to help him so long as he agreed to strict standards-moving home, getting help, staying clean. I'd have the lawyer spell out that agreement before intervening on his behalf.

    I will send no money or gift cards but may send groceries. I may consider a food plan thru school. I will pay tuition directly to uni if he maintains a 2.50+ and 15 hours & gives us full access to computerized school records. I will not fill out FAFSA.

    And yes, I know my best case scenario of him moving home under strict guidelines may actually be my worst nightmare.

    So that's where I am for now. And I absolutely agree that you must address any suicide threats
  3. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    Sorry for all my typos...the ipad does weird things when i dont have an outside keyboard. Talked to husband tonight. I think we are done paying for a lawyer. The lawyer gave him strong advice after court which he promptly ignored. So whats the point of having a lawyer?

  4. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    I agree w your decision. But you may want to consult the lawyer for a "what if" consultation for your own peace of mind. The psychiatrist suggested I do that before (he didn't say "in case" or "if") difficult child gets arrested. I haven't done it (yet) but I did add the phone # to my contacts.

    Typing on my iPhone-but I have my "willing/not willing" plan/script plus helpful hints on my laptop-I will look at it tomorrow & see if there are any gems. It was very empowering to write it out.
  5. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    We had to decide this last spring when difficult child moved out and then called for help. We had decided we would only help with treatment and even that we could/would only pay for a sober house. If she wanted/needed a treatment facility she would have to find someplace that took clients on a sliding fee. We had just paid $25,000 and had no more to give. We would do everything in our power to get her to treatment because we wanted her to know that that is what we supported, her getting better.

    The lawyer is a tough one, husband had said we would not pay for one, yet I know in the end he probably would because he is one and has seen too many times what happens when you don't have one. He may let the public defender get involved first but I think in the end he would pay for one. Not completely sure on that, but we would not jump in and do it right away.

    #5 is a given..... NO NO NO Money for anything other than treatment.

    #6 is another given.....get him help, even if it's just to call police. difficult child has often threatened suicide when she's using. Once she called and said she was walking down the street and if we didn't pick her up she was jumping in front of a car. We didn't pick her up. Right or wrong we were done with her threats. We told her we loved her and hoped she wouldn't do that but she is the one who left so if was up to her to walk or find a ride. This was a very different place from where she is now, she was actively using and out of control. If she called now threatening to hurt herself we would pull out all stops to get her help.

    I do the same as you do, try to cover all scenarios. But keep it simple to him, let him know you will help him get treatment but that's all. No money will be given to him directly for anything. YOur main concern is his welfare, not enabling him to use. I believe when we were very clear about what we would and would not help with, difficult child became more focused on what she had to do. We told her to tell us when she was swerious about getting help and then we would be there to support her.

    Your difficult child is very foolish to think the small amount of money he has from this plane ticket will last very long. And his girlfriend has no idea what she has done. Once again our difficult children live for the moment.

    His calling you for help is not necessarily a bad thing. We want our difficult child to know we love her and will help her if she is helping herself and doing the right thing. We want her to know that she always has someone in this world that she can call if she's in trouble and wants help. While that makes for anxious moments at times, she is too fragile to have to rely solely on herself. She hasn't been making good decisions long enough to have it become who she is yet. But we will not help her if she is living a life of drug/alcohol use and involved in illegal activities.

  6. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    TL-just adding that (below) is something I copied to my journal that I have used while writing out out own plan. It does have a religious slant - so I do not mean to offend if that's not your thing. I found it here: You're Not Alone Help for Parents and Grandparents
    The second line really made me feel a lot better. I have a strong need to have a plan - I am a "planner" (or control freak as others like to say) and not having a "plan" was adding to my anguish.

    The Parents; Thought Process

    We must decide beforehand--as best we can--what we will do and how we will react to situations that occur today.

    I have been created in the image of God and I must consider what that means. If I lose sight of this, then I lose sight of my need for God to be working in my life.

    I prepare for anything. I will not be naive about my child's abuse. I will try to anticipate surprises.

    I will endeavor not to give into the naive hope that the situation is not as bad as it genuinely is.

    I will recognize that it is a most delicate balance between living in faith for my child's future and accepting the reality of the situation.

    I will endeavor to remember that love hopes the best and that without faith it is impossible to please God while remembering the gravity of the situation and the reality of the data about drugs.

    I will endeavor to understand that this type of crisis builds or diminishes faith

    I will endeavor to remember that a crisis is a test of character and measures one's willingness to grow.

    I will commit to doing the hard work of living one day at a time.

  7. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I think *consulting* a lawyer here doesn't hurt, for your own peace of mind. That doesn't mean you have to retain one. I'd be hesitant to do that as well, but it depends on the charge really.

    This is a tough one.. who's to say he won't blow the bus off, too? I think I'd probably give it a shot, though.

    I think this is reasonable.

    I agree with not giving him cash, but I'm leary of putting this responsibility on someone else. But, I'm not familiar with sober houses, is this something they routinely do, as part of their program? (I think you or someone else said that they did). If so, sounds like a good plan.

    Amen to that.

    I'm a bit jaded on this one, because I've dealt with manipulative suicidal threats. What I used to tell Oldest was something like, "well you know what you need to do if that's how you are feeling." (i.e., call 911). Quite honestly I had to accept that if she ever follows through on those threats, there won't be much I can do about it. But if your difficult child doesn't have this history, it might be more serious. If you can tell where he's calling from, call 911 yourself.

    I think the bottom line is, you will support him in anything to do with his recovery. Beyond that, he's on his own.
  8. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Ok, we all know that I am jumping in from dealing with a child that was doing criminal acts which would lead him to call me needing help with lawyers and such instead of substance abuse but at that point I am not sure it makes much difference.

    I didnt have the option of hiring a lawyer because none of us make enough money. Cory always just applied for and was appointed a court appointed attorney.

    I only helped with bail when I was using his money. I did sign my name on it because he needed someone older. I did know he wouldnt run. That wasnt a fear of mine. If it had been, I would never have done it. Ive never put my house or car up.

    Now I did always put money on his accounts except for one 30 day period when we had had a huge blow up before he went in and I wasnt speaking to him at all. I dont know if his father did or not. Im sure Mandy did.

    One thing to remember too is that when they are adults you dont get a whole lot of input with their lawyers. Their lawyers are for them, not the parents. The only reason I got to talk to Cory's lawyer when he was arrested for forging my checks was because it was a crime against me. Then I was also able to talk to the DA too so I was able to work out the best deal we could get for him as long as I got him to sit silently...lol. I did all the leg work. He just had to stand up and say Yes Sir to the judge on command.

    As far as a bus, I guess I am assuming this place is a bit of a drive away from you. Bus is going to mean he will need either a packed lunch or a way to get something to eat and drink along the way, do remember that. Also means he could get off anywhere along the way.

    As far as paying for the room at the sober house. With you there. If the people there cant or wont do the handling of the money for food and necessities, I would go for something like a grocery store card. Find out what is the closest grocery store to the sober house and get a card for that place. See if you can renew it online. Or...call and see if he is eligible for food stamps while in a sober house. He may be. That would help.

    Speaking of being in the house...does your son have any skills to help him start getting a job to move forward in life? Things that will make him feel better about himself? I truly feel that all this not working for a man, even one at 19/20, really makes them feel poorly about themselves. The more that they can see themselves supporting themselves and not having someone else doing it, the more they will feel a sense of pride which carries over into all areas of their lives.

    Is there any chance that while he is in the sober house he could work on some sort of tech school or trade school for something he could do relatively fast? Maybe a certificate program.
  9. Elsieshaye

    Elsieshaye Member

    This may change, but right now, I'm not willing to help with anything. He's got his father and his aunt, and they will do whatever they think is right. He's on my health insurance, and both difficult child and his aunt have a copy of the card (since I'm sure she'll get the call to come down and rescue them if anything happens), and I'm maintaining a cell phone for him so that he isn't completely off the radar, but that won't last forever either. If he gets arrested, he has to figure that one out without me (he'll be getting plenty of advice and help from father and aunt).

    Really, at this point, I just need to stay backed waaaaay off. I will respond to communications, but only if they're respectful.
  10. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    Thanks for all your thoughts on this I find it very helpful, and also validating! I am trying not to totally obsess abuot him but to go about my business... I am doing ok in that department although I have gotten into my drug of choice, which is chocolate.... which is not good for my weight loss efforts!!!

    So far I have heard nothing.. which I guess is good news. I am checking phone records (and trying not to obsess). He has made a call to the outpatient program down there... don't know what that means. I am hoping he is on his way back but we shall see.... I think I will hear something from someone hopefully if he gets there. If not I may not know if he is here or there.

    As far as giving money to the sober house for food, the one he was just in is willing to do that for us. However I don't know if they will be willing to take him back after his recent shenanigans down there and then him leaving them hanging looking for him at the iarport the other night. So now sure if he goes back where he will go.

    As for the bus... yes if he takes the bus it would be a 24 hr bus ride, so I would probably pack him some food and give him a pack of cigs... no money though. We did realize he has some frequent flyer miles he does not know about so we would tell him about those and if he is able to use them then so be it.

    As for the lawyer i think it would make me feel better to consult with a lawyer. I suspect if my son gets arrested again the lawyer is going to also be pretty disgusted with him. LOL. And I really doubt there will be much anyone can do... so for his sake I hope that doesn't happen, although a part of me feels it would serve him right.

    I am still mostly just mad at him and disgusted. One thing that bothered me was his attitude yesterday on the way to the airport. We had just picked him up and he was cocky.... probably from the time with the girlfriend... and I think his cockiness made him honest and I did not like what I heard. His attitude about his drug use and manipulating everyone, admitting to it when it served him etc. just appalled me. It made me realize that I really don't know him anymore and what I do know I don't like. It breaks me heart that my little boy became this man... I really loved the little boy but I am having a hard time liking this man.

    Anyway mad is better than sad..... and I am starting to get sad so I am going to stop and just be mad.

  11. Elsieshaye

    Elsieshaye Member

    I absolutely understand and relate to this. ((((((TL)))))))
  12. AHF

    AHF Member

    I am in pretty much exactly this same boat except that I know where Peter Pan is right now--back in the psychiatric ward, having been sent there by the psychiatric at the sober house. And suicide is the Big Manipulation, the thing they all know we HAVE to respond to. So I agree with others above--respond with a call to 911, NOT with taking him in or sending money or whatever. My great fear is that Peter Pan will up the ante with a suicide attempt just to show me how wrong I've been, and that attempt will go too far, and etc etc. Last time it came up I told him, "The question isn't whether you're going to die. We're all going to die. The question is whether you're going to live, and only you can answer that." Hasn't made much difference, but I pass it along anyhow.