When they want to do their own thing...

Discussion in 'Failure to Thrive' started by AnnieO, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    ...But just don't GET that they have to do other stuff.

    Pat has been improving over the last week. But... Only on little things. I've been trying to hold out an olive branch but I'm ready to beat him with it, because along with the slight improvement has come... The parenting of Belle. And that's not cool. He's been told repeatedly to NOT do that... Yep. Because he does things like take away (insert whatever she is playing with) because she shouldn't have it for whatever reason. Yesterday it was her wooden train from her brand new track. Day before, was her step stool for the toilet (she was using it to get to the sink...to wash her hands...). And so on.

    He is still refusing to wash dirty dishes, or even put them in the dish washer. He ate 3/4 the 18-oz bag of Hershey's chocolate eggs I bought for Rose's egg hunt and work (forget asking me about them). He hid the peanut butter so we wouldn't see he was eating it (hello, kid, it's on YOUR shelf so YOU eat... Sigh). And he has this cockamamie story about keeping a bunch of 2-liter bottles for a friend (about 15-20 of them)... We told him he has a few more days and then we will remove them. I also explained bottle bombs, which are BIG around here right now, and told him if his fingerprints are on the bottles HE is the one who is screwed, not us.

    He's also not done a thing about getting a part-time job. The second he does, we will give his phone back... But... Yeah, nope.

    I started to feel bad for him, and talked him into cleaning his bathroom so Bill would give his mattress back. And then all the other stuff came back, too.

  2. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    I know you are frustrated, but this cracked me up......:rofl:

    Did you mean parenting Rose? I was picturing a 20 year old with a wooden train and a step stool then went nahhhhhh. Just wait til Rose gets older and tells him "You are not the boss of me!"

    You guys are working so hard with Pat to try to get him to tow the line. Good job.

    Keep up the good work and take time out for YOU!

    At least you have your brilliant sense of humor.
    Thanks for the chuckles...........

  3. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    been there done that. Yes, Annie... it's insanity. They just don't GET it.

    It's a warp in thinking. And it's very hard to change. But it can be changed - and if they are going forward, it has to be changed...
  4. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    Could it be a power/control thing?

    Trying to usurp your authority with your youngest?

    My step-son had a strange collection of 2-liters hidden last time he lived with us, too. I think it had to do with drug abuse, possibly, in his case (not sure, he did some crazy things back then). He also had a thing for taking pens apart and using the hollow outer shell to smoke spice (I think).
  5. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    I wonder if some of this is replay from when he was that age? Maybe not even consciously. But... what bits you've told us about their biomom, it wouldn't surprise me.

    How to address it is ... harder. Wish I had some easy solutions for you!
  6. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    LOL New Leaf, yes, Rose, not Belle. (I have a friend whose two year old granddaughter's name is *actually* Belle. ACK!) And that sort of humor has gotten me through a LOT!

    We got a letter from the counselor yesterday, to sign the treatment plan which is basically to facilitate communication and family harmony. "Client states that he wants parents to get off his back." BAHAHAHAHAHA! SO very typical teen! I might have to, on the way to the counselor tonight, tell him there are 3 easy steps to get us off his back. 1) follow house rules 2) do chores and 3) get a job. "3 special steps" - a la Special Agent Oso.

    Yup, I have a preschooler in the house...
  7. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    And then my challenging kid wonders why his not-quite-so-challenging sister "has life easy" and he doesn't. As in... she does 1 and 2 from your list (between jobs, i'm not too worried)... meanwhile, he does 3 and not the other two and... yup.

    Learn to fit in!
  8. TeDo

    TeDo CD Hall of Fame

    AnnieO, I need you to step back a bit to the very beginning my dear. Go all the way back to The Explosive Child techniques. WHY is he doing the various things he's doing or not doing. He was doing ok, although not the best, before Rose came along. Did you ask his help when she was younger and now that she's older, he isn't "needed" anymore? I realize she's your miracle baby and all that comes with it but I really think he's feeling like a non-entity, unless he's doing something wrong. We've talked before about how Pat and my #1 are so much alike. #2 has had a job for 3 years now because he has the ability and people skills to hold one down. #1 will be 18 in July and hasn't worked a day in his life because he doesn't have the ability or people skills, not to mention all the anxiety, to find or keep one that's available for kids. As for chores, Jeremy's room is a sty but it's HIS room and he has to keep the door closed because I don't want to see his mess. I don't allow "messes" in MY living spaces (the rest of the house LOL) but HE has to live in his room. While tough love is what Belle needed, Pat is a totally different ball game and I think you're going to end up doing more harm than good with the techniques you're using with him. He not only has "lost" his sister, he's losing you and husband as well ...... to Rose. When was the last time either of you spent 1:1 quality time with him doing what HE wants to do? Just putting that out there .... food for thought.
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  9. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Well, interestingly enough, we did NOT ask his help when she was younger; in fact we told him from the get go that she wasn't his responsibility at all!

    That's the thing, though. Bill and I have tried very hard to include him, with and without Rose present. We've had family or friends babysit her so we can take him out to do something such as bowling, a movie, or pizza. We've had him no-show on us multiple times... In fact, the last time he actually showed interest in an activity was last FEBRUARY (14 months ago) when we took everyone (my parents and Belle and Rose too) to a train thing. We bought tickets to the new Star Wars, for a guy outing with him and Bill... He refused to go. We ask him out to dinner, with and without Rose - nope. I have asked what he would like to do for his birthday... He said "nothing". Same answer for what he wanted for Christmas. He was barely present FOR Thanksgiving and Christmas, skipped out on Easter, skipped out on our huge 10th-anniversary/4th of July cookout last summer (where he'd been asked to invite friends, and didn't). Honestly, Belle is more of a participant in our day-to-day, and she's a couple hundred miles away. He DID go with us to visit her, and stayed with her and Wyatt. I would love to think it is us not spending time with him, but when we try and are rebuffed, there's not much we can do.

    We have no choice on those techniques, by the way... NOTHING ELSE has helped, at all, and since we are fully aware that he is CAPABLE (seen him do it), then there is NO REASON we should support him sitting on his rear doing nothing after he is 18.

    Speaking of rooms - I really don't care that much, but the stench creeps out into the hallway, so it's a hygiene thing. I wouldn't care about that, even, but 1) Rose's bedroom door is next to his, 2) the main bathroom is on the other side, and 3) it keeps going down the hall. Stinky? OK. Physically ill? Not so okay.

    Really, we're at a loss, so this is a last-ditch effort. I don't know what else to try.
  10. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    And there aren't many resources out there to help you figure it out either. :cry:

    The problem is, whatever approach you take has a 50-50 chance of back-firing. We are in the same 50-50 situation right now (different parameters).

    For example, you could look into qualifying him for disability, and figure out what resources are available to him - group home, for example, and give him the option of getting off his tush and start taking responsibility, or being flagged as disabled and moving into an adult group home next year.

    If that would motivate him, you win and so does he.
    But... he may decide that being disabled and living in a group home is just fine with him. In which case you both lose.

    Why does parenting have to be so doggone difficult!
  11. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    That's a great option, too - one we've looked into. Around here, though, there's very little in the way of adult group homes. Also, he does not qualify for any kind of disability! We have looked into that, several times. Thing is, he is perfectly capable of doing those things he needs to do, to survive. He just wants to skate.

    As far as Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified... Yeah, that goes nowhere around here. :frown:
  12. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Kinda, sorta, maybe.

    The "child and youth services" approach is very different from the "adult" approach. And with Pat being 17... at that age, adult services will take him. That is who we are working with now, and it's a huge difference. We've actually nailed one of the two key diagnoses (the other, is now flagged "probable" which is a lot farther than before).
  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    You may want to re-evaluate him. Both aspergers and Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified are now strictly under one umbrella...autistic spectrum disorder and you WILL get services for THAT label. Our neuropsychologist told us that Sonic had Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified, but for the sake of services he labeled him Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), which is true. They are the same.

    Sonic has the option of services, and gets some, but is mostly independent and living in his own apartment. Between ssi and his daily part time job, he pays for his own stuff, but I am his payee because he knows he will spend all his money on his own. We tried that.

    Sonic was born having ingested his birthmothers crack, alcohol, and who knows what else. Didn't Pats birth mom expose him in utero too? Telling that to a neuropsychologist really helps with disabilty. It is a rare child who has that sort of pre birth poisining and is not affected by it, someimes just struggling more in daily life. Its the equivalent of bottles of alcohol mixed with other drugs given repeatedly to a newborn. What birthmom takes to get high the baby also takes.

    I hope you can find a good solution. Always good to see you posting.
  14. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    When we took him for his neuropsychologist originally, we told them what we had observed, what we knew for a fact (Pat got stuck in the birth canal during birth and was an emergency C-Section), and what we thought might have happened (alcohol exposure in utero). I was really confused as to why Bill didn't KNOW about the alcohol, but then found out that biomom liked to take off with her friends a LOT, and he was also active duty at the time and working a LOT in the field. He blames himself for some of Pat's issues, and Belle's too,, because of that. We're working through that in counseling. Anyway, when we got the report (that somehow is missing and has been for several years... Even contacting Children's of Cincinnati, who diagnosis'd him, does not get us the report we had at one time... Which strikes me as REALLY ODD)... It showed "markers" of "possible" Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS), including facial features that, frankly, could also be attributed to being partially Asian. It diagnosis'd Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified and "mild" ADHD as well. They did test him for Fragile X (OMG that was craziness, holding the kid down for blood draws!!), and I think they did something to rule out brain damage from the birth canal issue. CT scan? I don't know after all these years.

    A couple years ago, we had him evaluated for Auditory Processing Disorders (APD). The results came back "normal" but on the edge. The doctor suggested we request accommodations in his IEP. And that was during the online school thing, so the accommodations were super easy. Didn't help. His pediatrician, when I was BEGGING for a referral for Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) testing, was very much anti said testing and finally told me she was giving me a referral to prove I was wrong. (Group of docs, all the others are FANTASTIC. I just don't schedule with her anymore. Ever.)

    We've struggled with getting the school to follow his IEP. Mostly, they're just too darned busy... It's not that they don't care, they just don't have a lot of time for a kid who flatly refuses to self-advocate. That's one of the goals, too - we've set that for years and years and no matter how much we remind him, we're not there to do it for him - so he doesn't do it! After a certain point, though, if he isn't going to self-advocate, there's not a whole lot we can do.

    Now comes the caveat that I always HATE posting. The online school also suggested we have him re-evaluated as he was nearing legal adulthood. Due to insurance silliness, I had to get a referral... Got that... scheduled an appointment... And Pat refused to go. Thank goodness they were understanding when I had to cancel.

    I suppose I could tell Bill to ask the Prevention Coordinator if she could make that a part of Pat's requirements...
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I think I read that processing problems are not considered a disability. I know, I know but it is what it is. Your best bet for services would be Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS). Has Pat ever had a functional screening? That was mandatory before sonic got services. For that, we had to start at Aging and Disabilities. It was a series of things we had to walk through (and a pain) but there was a certain path we had to take and private testing was not step one. Yes, I know. Nutty.

    In the end, the trail was worth it. The services helped Sonic grow up and thrive and now he is almost 100 percent independent. He'd probably still live with us if not for them.

    Again, I wish you like. Look how Belle made it. Pat can make it too. Hugs to all of you.
  16. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Yes, I think that's a good idea.

    He is "disabled" enough that he doesn't recognize that he needs medical intervention. Therefore, he needs to be forced into testing. Which will still require compliance - again, probably under threat.

    The ironic side to this is, you probably win either way. If he can pull himself together enough for testing to prove he isn't disabled, then... he's into the "kick butt and grow up" category (which I suspect he doesn't want), OR he cooperates and the tester properly takes other information (a.k.a. his parents' and teachers' feedback) into account, and he is actually disabled, in which case there needs to be all sorts of other plans for the future (which I suspect he also doesn't want).

    He doesn't want anything to change. But he has no choice. So, Pat - are you able, or not able? Because Dad and Mom can't support you for the rest of your life. You either support yourself, or cooperate in getting other supports.

    And yes, Pat, life DOES stink. It's the stinking reality for every one of us, and for many of our kids. The only way you get away from the stink is to rise above it - prove the world wrong, show us how able you really are, get on with your life - and that applies whether able or disabled.
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  17. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    The best way for us to win... Is for him to win. You know what kills me? He used to be super helpful, kind, and a neat freak. The neat freak bit faded of course, but he was still great... And in some ways I think the online school triggered this. The isolation. I could kick myself for suggesting it, but then, of course I thought (and Bill thought) it was a good idea at the time. :sigh:
  18. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Except that if you hadn't done THAT, then you would have had a different problem - or exactly the same one anyway.

    There just isn't any right answer, ever. We can only do the best we can at the time.
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  19. TeDo

    TeDo CD Hall of Fame

    Definitely get him re-evaluated now that everything is under Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) or maybe you can get Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) diagnosis. When you're filling out the paperwork, don't answer that he can do things (but refuses) but that he can't because he doesn't anymore. Whatever the reason, he's backsliding. Sounds like you're back to square one but hey, at least you know the road now. LOL Love ya lady! You got this.
  20. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    We're asking the court to order him to comply with an evaluation... Which means he has to be formally charged. What a PAIN!

    ...He refuses to even go for a well child check up, so we're kind of stuck. Ugh.