Why are kids so mean?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Singlemommyof3, Sep 26, 2007.

  1. Singlemommyof3

    Singlemommyof3 New Member

    So here it is:

    My son has been having issues at school. He's getting all the blame because he's hitting the kids. He tells me that the kids are teasing him. He's been kept in from recess to do this and I have gotten several emails from his teacher regarding this issue. My son does not usually just hit someone for no reason, there is something that is setting him off. I asked the teacher to observe more closely to see what is provoking my son and that I don't think keeping in from recess is the answer. He is difficult and he's having alot of issues right now and its been hard. I now believe that he is being "labeled" at school and he gets all the blame. Shouldn't there be consequenses for children who are teasing him? Shouldn't they get in trouble too? I don't know what to do. I'm getting back into counseling and I hope that will help. I know my son and I sure hope the school cooperates with me.
  2. JJJ

    JJJ Active Member

    Absolutely. I am now homeschooling Tigger because despite his IEP stating that he gets 1:1 supervision at all times, he was left alone in the lunchroom and 2 girls picked on him and when he told them to shut-up, he got punished and they laughed at him. Gee, wonder why the situation spun out of control????

    It is so much easier for the teachers to believe that our children are just 'bad' rather than examine their part (lack of supervision) in the conflicts or to have the tough conversations with the PCs mom, that their angels aren't quite so angelic.
  3. Singlemommyof3

    Singlemommyof3 New Member

    I wish I could home school. I used to be a preschool teacher and I could do it, but I'm a single mother of three and I have work. Grrr... I'm very protective over my son and it just isn't fair.
  4. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    Well, I have to be honest here. To a degree, teachers need to keep an eye on the kids, but one or two teachers can't watch an entire classroom of kids every second (not talking about Tigger's case, he most certainly SHOULD have been watched every minute).

    But, our kids need to told that there are other ways to cope if they are being teased. It can't always be the other kid's fault.
  5. goldenguru

    goldenguru Active Member

    Remember "Sticks and stones may break the bones, but names will never hurt me"? It's really a ridiculous little nursery rhyme ya know??

    Teasing does hurt. Sometimes worse than hitting.

    If your child is being unduly provoked I would insist that the teachers/administrators address it.

    I would be careful not to 'excuse' your sons hitting. It is never acceptable behavior ... but in his defense I would get to the bottom of the issues.
  6. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    My difficult child has been in that place many times. I would get the names of the teasers and turn them in myself if your difficult child is not able to.

    I do agree with gg above, do not excuse the hitting. I always talked with difficult child and tried to explain why he should have told an adult. Not always sucessfully.

    Teachers cannot see everything unless in a 1:1 situation. It does not help when you feel everyone is blaming your child.
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    In my daughter's school, if you hit, you get punished, even if you were provoked. The ones who provoked DO get into trouble, maybe a detention, but if you strike a blow you are automatically suspended (which is so much fun for the parents!).
    Since your little guy has anger issues, do you have an IEP that has an aide watching him at recess or in the classroom? in my opinion if a kid is having trouble controlling himself, then the adults have to keep a better eye on him. I would be raising hello if it were my kid. You can imagine how popular I am with the schools :wink: I would definitely address this.
  8. SearchingForRainbows

    SearchingForRainbows Active Member

    So far this year, difficult child 2 is being bullied in one of his classes on a daily basis. difficult child 2 hasn't resorted to violence yet. He is capable of it. I understand how you feel.

    The assistant principal has been handling the problems so far. I put in a call to the teacher and I'm going to talk to the SPED director. This sort of behavior is unacceptable. It is unfortunate that some kids can't and won't accept differences in others.

    It is definitely unfair if your child is being blamed totally. However, I agree with the others who said that you can't excuse his

    I hope things work out for your difficult child. WFEN
  9. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    This should be a bright spot in your day, ladies:

    There's a boy in my easy child daughter's 3rd grade class who isn't diagnosed but who I strongly suspect leans in the direction of Asperger's. His speech is difficult to follow (gibberish, rabbit trails everywhere) and socially he's floundering big time. Last year the teasing started, apparently often with him seeming clueless about it. According to my daughter it's picked up this year and yesterday she discovered him crying in line and intervened with the kid who was picking on him. We talked about what to do last night and today after school she told her teacher what's been going on because the bullies only kick into action when staff isn't looking.

    Naturally I'm one proud mama and wish there were a bunch more Warrior Princesses like her out there. :warrior: :princess:
  10. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Definitely the bullies should be getting in trouble right along with your son. It isn't fair that he is the only one getting consequences. Hugs.
  11. hopefloats

    hopefloats New Member

    I have had the same thing happening with my son who has just started 4K. He hot a call home for hitting on the first day, second, third, and by the next week they were sending notes home daily. The end of second week my son was sent to principals office for hitting three times that same day. I sat him down a really talked to him and he told me different stories that the other kids had been hitting and kicking first. One note even said that another student came back to school and told my son that bullying was against the law and the teacher made sure that I was aware that the other parents have been notified. Now, with that said I know my difficult child is no angel but I personally know some of the other children in his class and know darn well that they can be pretty mean. I now have a problem with the principal and teacher. The principal asked why difficult child was hitting and he told the princ. that they wouldn't leave him alone and he didn't want them bothering him. Princ. said to just stay away from mean kids. My son took that to heart but now teachers are telling my son that everyone has to be friends in their class and play together. UGH!! I feel your PAIN!!
  12. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Singlemommy, so sorry to hear that. I wish he had a defender like SRL's daughter!
  13. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    We had this problem constantly. The only time the problem eased (and it eased A LOT) was when we used the IEP to request playground supervision for him. It was brilliant, but teachers were very angry about it, very resistant because they said it made him seem too "different". I pointed out to them that he already WAS sufficiently different to be a bullying target.

    But it really works. If the 'shadow" keeps their distance, or starts up a playground game involving difficult child and with other kids, it can turn playtime into a positive, organised event. At one point difficult child 3 reported to me that the bullies were chasing him again, but this time he was able to go and tell someone who made the bullies leave him alone. He felt so pleased with himself for acting appropriately. And having the CHANCE to act appropriately was what we got, with the playground supervision.

    We were told that difficult child 3 should not have unstructured play, and yet I could only get the playground supervision for one term, because nobody requested a report from this experience and so I had no report to point to to say, "We did this; it worked."

    Teachers find it easier to blame the weird kid. difficult child 3 has difficulty being sure who did what, his face recognition is faulty. So he could always be shaken in an interrogation, as to who had attacked him. As a result, his story was never believed and the teachers took to saying he was lying. With time, we stopped trying to get action because unless we had strong proof that something had happened, we were told to forget it. That's why I never called the police for all the verbal attacks and the throwing of things at difficult child 3, in the past. I didn't know I could, or should. Instead, I waited until the little darlings drew blood, and then was horrified to hear the police say, "Since we've had no previous reports, we're treating this as an isolated incident."

    What has helped us - we have repeatedly tried to train difficult child 3 to NEVER hit back. Just because he sees other kids hitting back when they're bullied, does not mean he can do it too. And the reason is - life is not fair. He cannot live by the same rules as other kids, because he is different. Because he is always the one being blamed. Life is not fair, but he has to recognise this and work with it. If a normal kid hits back, even he loses some rights to complaint over the matter. But when a difficult child hits back, he immediately becomes the instigator and main culprit. Life is not fair. This is not fair. But that is how it works, darn it.

    An important point - if you are being hassled by other kids, even if they are hitting you, they are being bad. But if you hit back, even in self-defence - you have lost all opportunity for redress. If you refuse to hit back at all, you have every reason to take them down utterly, the PROPER way (legally). But once you hit back - all bets are off, especially if you're a difficult child. I can help my kid deal with these bullies legally, properly - unless he has hit the other kid at all. If he's touched the other kid - it removes my option to defend my child. Life definitely is not fair in this - but tat is how it is. Sorry to sound repetitive, but I had to drill this into both boys.

    So we drilled and drilled, DO NOT HIT BACK. This takes time - kids like this have impulse control and simply telling them is never enough. After the event they know they shouldn't have hit, but in their rage they forget. And BBK, the teachers are wrong and the other kids are wrong - a kid like this is far less capable of controlling himself and not hitting back and this should be considered; but it rarely is.
    So we drill it. But supervision, plus tis drill, is what works. We had enough incidents happening under OUR noses, to be able to use our own supervision to help him. At the beach some kids were taunting him. I told difficult child 3 to move away. So the other kids followed and began taunting again. So difficult child 3 moved away again. Finally husband & I decided we had to take him home - he was really being hassled. Simply moving away from the bullies is no protection at all, when they are actively seeking you out for their own amusement. You CAN'T get away, or have you forgotten your own school experiences? Sometimes lunchtime detention can be a blessing.
    So we called difficult child 3 to come home from the beach. Just then one of the little darlings must have said something and difficult child 3 snapped. He raced back, knocked the kid flat on his back and laid into him, fists pistoning like a steam train. husband was on him like a flash, I thought he was going to punish him but instead he held difficult child 3 to one side and said to the other kids, "You deserved every bit of that. I've been watching - you haven't let up on his for a minute, have you? Now get lost before I call your parents and tell them what you've been doing!"

    Those kids must have had a real guilty conscience because they turned tail and fled and we've never had problems with them since. i think they may have been visitors to the village for the summer, but I'm not sure.

    In the recent attack on difficult child 3, the kids were throwing banskia cones (like knobbly pine cones only bigger and heavier) at difficult child 3 and then finally one kid threw a large, very spiky, knobbly tree root. That is what hit difficult child 3's head and made him bleed. difficult child 3 said that he DID throw back some of "the log" when it broke after it hit his head, but he hadn't thrown anything else.
    One of the police later told me that one of the kids said that difficult child 3 had started the fight. So I asked difficult child 3, very carefully. "Well, I DID tell them to go away and leave me alone," he began doubtfully, as if already blaming himself for "starting it" by asking them to leave him alone.

    It is very sad when this sort of abuse continues to the point that a child thinks he deserved the beating, just because he asked them to stop.

    You need to train your child, but you also need to get this stopped. I would strongly recommend you urgently request supervision for all instances of unstructured play. And if they say there's no need, remind them that they think your son is dangerous, and if he really is that bad, then they must protect the other kids from him, mustn't they? Hey, you use their own words against them.

    Given the problem, his diagnosis and the history, you should be able to apply for extra funding for this, if necessary. Push for it. Don't let them talk you out of it, as difficult child 3's school did to me.

    Good luck. This needs to be fixed.

  14. Singlemommyof3

    Singlemommyof3 New Member

    Thank you all for the replies. I never excuse my sons hitting and I always take action for that. But with his ODD, its hard for him not to react that way. Its crazy because me and my ex never ever resorted to violence and it hurts me that he does. I don't know. He did have a better day yesterday and his teacher did some investigating and realized it wasn't just him. So they are working on it with me. I'm so glad. I did reward him last night and he got to go to a church function with his friends and he got to ride his bike to school this morning. I hope that helps. Plus the kids at daycare were so proud of him for having such a good day and they all complimented him which made him feel good. I'm a happy mom today :smile:
  15. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    One thing which helped us - there was so much confusion re school stuff, as to how much he really was to blame, etc that we chose to never punish him at home for things that happened at school. Of course we would talk it through and role play it with him (re school stuff at home) but no grounding or loss of privileges for school stuff unless it was something that related to home, such as his failure to do homework.

    This meant that whatever confusion and nastiness was happening at school, stayed at school. Home was a refuge from school which made it easier for home to be the more important place for him to learn socially acceptable and workable rules.

    You don't do this sort of thing at home - so where is he learning it? Only one answer for this and it's obvious - whatever bad behaviour he is learning, he is learning away from home. At school.

    I remember getting a note home from difficult child 3's teacher, saying that difficult child 3 had called some of the other kids "dumb faggot retard" and that he shouldn't be allowed to use this sort of language and where did he learn it?
    I wrote back to the teacher that she knew our family well, we had been friends and neighbours for years, she well knew that difficult child 3 would not learn language like that in our home. And if you analyse the words he used - he was using words which had been directed at him, from other kids hassling him. "Dumb" and "retard" were clearly learned at school because these were the labels the other kids threw at difficult child 3 because he WOULD seem like that to them; and the other word, implying homosexuality, was a standard insult hurled by kids who may not even know what it means (but who maybe hear it in THEIR homes - I know some of these kids and could easily guess which families used that as an insult to their sons). I told the teacher that I was surprised she thought it was MY fault, and that a little gentle deduction could have told her exactly who had taught this charming language to difficult child 3, and under the very circumstances the school denied was happening.

    This nasty stuff is what happens to our kids. Punishing them at home only makes it worse and confuses them more. Injustice really hurts these kids even more than many other kids, because they are very rigid about rules being followed (the rules they think are the REAL ones, the ones that work for everyone else) and to punish at home breaks these rules and makes it harder for the child to understand justice.

    In the same way, you might share with a teacher about a problem you're having at home with your child, but would you expect the school to put your child on detention at lunchtime, for being rude to you at breakfast time? I doubt it.

    The same applies in reverse.