why are they diagnosising without testing ???????

[mom23gsfg]

:smile:
i dont understand this,i could accept it if they would just test him!
first off my son was dignosed with adhd and some anger issues by his reg doctor
also by a phyciatrist and they did testing to prove this they also said most of his problems where coming from where he saw his bio dad abusing me and also being verb. abusive towards him and the other kids
well his counselor left and tried to place him with a new one which he didnt like and seemed afraid of because he said "he looked like a nazi"(reminded him of some guy off of a war movie)
and started refusing to go there
so i had to start taking him to mt rogers youth center for counceling
and in order for them to help you ,you have to take the child to a one time 1 hr visit to their phyciatrist and then the counselor could see them
all he told me was he believed he was ODD
now my son is in a mental facility and the doctor there is saying he is ODD,mood disorder,and borderline mr
and giving him 250 mg depakote
the school he attends tests him every year for his iep
and they said the same thing as the phyciatrist
that through the testing they have done that he is just behind due to the adhd and pchycological reasons and he doesnt even have a learning disability (because all his scores where high except one in the attention catergory)
so how in the world can this doctor that sees him maybe once every other day correctly diagnose him?
also i found out another thing from this new hos. doctor
my son goes into like dazes so last year they ran a EEG on him for seizers
the doctor that did the testing reported that nothing showed up
and now this new hos. doctor is saying that she read the report and said "it said they thought they saw something but wasnt sure what it was because it didnt last long "WHAT????"
so she thinks he needs to have it done again
why in the world havent i been told about this before?
the only thing i have heard this doctor say that makes sense to me is she thinks he needs some nero testing but'said she would schedule that for after his release because if she done so now he would have to stay there till it was done because of the fact he cannot be released until her treatment is done
and worse i have been trying to unsuccessfully get in touch with his reg doctor to let her in on this(shes on vacation)so im stuck

 

[BusynMember]

See a neuropsychologist. They do intensive testing. I personally prefer them even to Psychiatrists. They were more right about both me and my son than any psychiatrist we've ever seen. Mine tested me for a total of six hours for three appointments and gave me every test in the book, including Learning Disability (LD) testing and the MMPI. My son was tested for TWELVE hours, on top of his interviewing me and reading over all my son's school records. The others, for some reason, just don't take the time. Since this is not an exact science you'd think the professionals would like to be as thorough as they could be before spouting a diagnosis and writing a script for medications, but they usually diagnose quickly and write the medications out even quicker, and are often wrong in their assessments. A neuropsychologist can also be wrong (mine told me there is no 100% way to be sure), but he sure nailed more truths about me and my son than anyone else and got us both on the right track. Since psychiatric/neurological issues often go together, in my opinion it's best to run every test available to at least spot the problem areas. I'm very disturbed by how fast kids are diagnosed and put on medications. They misdiagnosed my son twice before we saw a neuropsychologist. The scary part is that the Psychiatrist dug in his heels and insisted that my son had bipolar, even though he doesn't. He was not happy when I told him we were seeing a neuropsychologist. He almost acted insulted. Anyways JMO
PS-in my opinion school district testing is very superficial and often not the whole picture. They are invested in giving your kid as few supports as possible due to $$$ and often don't hire the brightest and best, as they are usually in private practice or at university or children's hospitals.
My son tested borderline MR too for a while (75). Now he tests around 100. Could be that he didn't understand the testing...who knows? I know, even then, that his IQ was higher than that.
medications an cause cognitive dulling.

 

[smallworld]

Jessica, sometimes dxes change over time as our difficult children change and grow. That's what happened with my son. That may be what is occurring with your difficult child.

Do you know the names of the specific tests the psychiatrist did when your difficult child was first diagnosed with ADHD and anger problems?
Do you know the names of the tests the school did for his IEP?

I would not trust a school to make dxes (such as ADHD and psychiatric issues) because they are in the business of educating kids and not in the mental health business. You need a qualified outside health professional to make these sorts of dxes.

If the psychiatric hospital psychiatrist is saying your difficult child has borderline MR, at some point an IQ test had to have been administered. Is that true?

Most in-patient psychiatric facilities are for the acute treatment of mental health disorders. They are generally for short-term stays to stabilize patients and set them up with appropriate outside care. Most of the testing takes time and can be accomplished on the outside. However, ongoing clinical observations in a psychiatric hospital can yield invaluable diagnosis information.

Once he's released, I would strongly recommend neuropsychological testing, which will be a thorough evaluation of his cognitive and psychological functioning.

Since abnormalities have been seen on an EEG, I would encourage you to follow up with another EEG (you can even have a 24- to 72-hour EEG done at home by arranging for electrodes to be hooked up to your difficult child and then have a portable monitor record his brain waves). I would also recommend an MRI if he hasn't had one yet.

Depakote treats both seizures and mood instability so the psychiatric hospital psychiatrist may be on the right track regardless of diagnosis.

Good luck.

 

[mom23gsfg]

no they have not tested him for anything since he has been there,let alone mr.

 

[tammyjh]

I also would push for the neuropsychological evaluation. You may have to become quite firm in asking for referral for this though. We had to with difficult child's pediatrician back when she was 8 1/2. It was a good evaluation once we got it though. In elem school, any testing they did wasn't very helpful but she had a psychological evaluation. through her middle school in Oct. of 2006 and we thought it quite thorough. Even the neuropsychologist that we saw in Feb. of this year thought it was pretty good and the scores she recieved with the NP, was very similar to the ones recieved from the school evaluation. Even so, I prefer the independent evaluations to the schools and to get any testing done and done in a decent time frame, we've had to be quite pushy. Good luck!!

 

[smallworld]

But what tests (with their names) have been done in the past? You said in your first post that he had been tested by a psychiatrist and the school.

 

[mom23gsfg]

it was evaluation testing,iq testing,and attention testing

 

[gcvmom]

If he is having seizures (and a negative EEG does not rule them out) it could explain a lot of his issues.

Hope you get some answers so his treatment can be accurately targeted!

 

[SRL]

Whenever you have medical testing such as EEG done, be sure and ask the doctor for a copy of the report so you can review it yourself. It's not uncommon for one doctor to interpret the report somewhat differently than another. For instance this morning I went to see a neurologist for a followup to an MRI and when the doctor took me back to see the images he said "Well, it's not as bad as I would have thought from reading the report" which was done by the radiologist. Time also changes medical testing and accuracy--the MRI I had recently was 4 times more powerful than with the last equipment that they used 4 years ago.

It's also fairly common for a doctor to request an overnight EEG in the hospital so they can get a longer reading. They're more likely to pick up events that way.

 

[smallworld]

Just to get the terminology straight -- EKG is for heart rhythm, and EEG is for brain waves.

 

[smallworld]

Jessica, is it possible the psychiatric hospital psychiatrist is basing his borderline MR diagnosis on previous IQ testing? And the other dxes on clinical observations made in the psychiatric hospital?

As the parent, you have a right to ask the psychiatric hospital psychiatrist how he arrived at his dxes.

 

[SRL]

Just to get the terminology straight -- EKG is for heart rhythm, and EEG is for brain waves.

EEK! I must need some SLEEP! I made the correction--thanks.

 

[BusynMember]

How many hours of testing did they do? When my daughter was in the p-hospital, I was really disappointed. They didn't test her much at all and came to a fast diagnosis. They didn't help her either. Since your son is there, I'd insist he see a neuropsychologist and have the full nine yards of testing for ALL disorders.
I wouldn't be shocked if that IQ test is inaccurate.

 

[Sara PA]

EEGs can rule in seizures but really can't rule them out. It is estimated that 50% of temporal lobe epilepsy does not show up on EEGs. My EEG showed "a little abnormal spiking but not enough to diagnose epilepsy" and my son's was "fine" in the words of his psychiatrist yet we both have/had temporal lobe seizures. I even had grand mal (tonic-clonic) seizures with my "slightly abnormal" EEG. And it's the temporal lobe the controls a lot of the senses and emotions. Partial seizures in the temporal lobe can cause behaviors that look nothing like the grand mal or petit mal seizures that most people think of when they think "seizure". In fact, they can cause behaviors that look very much like "mental illness".

 

[susiestar]

When my son was in a psychiatric hospital for 4 months I had to drive over an hour to attend weekly "staffings" to talk to a doctor at all. I had to repeatedly insist on testing, on not taking him home until we had testing and some report from it. it was a very long process, but did yield some positives.

Also, AFTER he was out I requested ALL records of any kind regarding his hospital stay. First they sent a 3 page report. I called and said, nope, not what I need. I want the ENTIRE chart sent to his therapist. I knew she would give it to me after reading it. We wanted to know exactly what had gone on and what hadn't. It was eye opening, but very very useful. I also learned in htis psychiatric hospital stay to get a copy of the IEP and READ the thing a month or so AFTER the IEP was approved. His school changed the IEP!!!!

This might help in the future to let you know what they did or didn't do. But you cannot request it until AFTER he is released, it can really change what they put in it.

Sending hugs,

Susie