Worried yet again

[RN0441]

TL

My son is in rehab but is being a complete ass to his therapist. I am so disappointed and embarrassed by him right now. I know he hates being there. Is very angry but knows it's that or a homeless shelter. She called me yesterday for the first time to feel me out I think. As she reminded me, she only knows what he tells her. I let her know that we completely support their treatment and can only hope that he takes the help we are trying to give him. I don't think he's ready but I don't know what that even means anymore. Maybe he needs to go to a homeless shelter for a while to appreciate what he does have. I never thought I'd get "there" but I'm there now.

I think he has a wall up right now. His house manager said when he has suffered enough he will then begin to give up his pride and seek a new way of life. I hope that he gets there soon. I really think that HE does not want to give THEM the satisfaction of accepting the program. I really do. I told him that the other day. He's only hurting himself. What a backwards way to think.

Does he realize how much he's hurt us? I think he chooses not to think about that right now because he is too wrapped up in himself.

 

[mof]

I totally get the wrapped up in himself thing. Our son hasn't completed his 12 steps yet...so making a amends is not happening. I told him last week that humility would take him far.

I have been where u are...he did get a better attitude, but he still lies about stupid things and thinks more of himself. We are on month 6....I sometimes wonder what even a year will look like. I'm thankful he takes his medications to "feel normal" in his words.

If you think a shelter would wake him up, can it hurt. I as a mom like you still through the anger worry about hurting them more...sick I know.

Sending prayers to him and yourself.

 

[so ready to live]

Thank you SWOT. You make me feel better. I know you are right.

 

[DarkwingPsyduck]

I will let Darkwing hopefully tell all of you if I am right or wrong. This is my impression after talking to my daughter.

While actively using, our adult kids are not thinking about what they put us through. They need the drug. It comes first, second,and third. We are only in their thoughts when they want money or shelter. To make their dysfunctional behavior easier. We take their behavior personally when it is about their disease.

After they quit and if in a good program...I like NA because it forces the person ti have introspection and make amends...then they realize what they put their loved ones through. But my daughter did not utilize any orogram and still apologized once clean. They have to get clean to get their empathy back.

Darkwing, please correct me where I am wrong. Thank you, friend.

No, you're not wrong. As I have said, it is a very circular proposition. Our drug use hurts those we do love, so we use drugs to not have to deal with that. The drugs make us into pseudo-sociopaths. It appears that we are incapable of caring about the pain of others, but that isn't the case. We just bury it under the drugs and the lifestyle. We are master manipulators, and cowards.

 

[Copabanana]

Copa - I will go look at that other thread. I just got back from being away so I am very behind.

TL. I hate hearing you sad. You are not failing him. He is failing himself. Until he sees this you get roped in. And for somebody like you who always takes responsibility, is always hopeful, always sees away, it is a killing thing to feel defeating. Will almost that bad.

As long as he feels like he has got you there with him, he will not have to choose for himself. He will have to feel alone--in order to take responsibility.

I can only go by our experience. My son had to feel rejected by all, and my withdrawing to get that it was he who had to change, nobody else. And then, still, he did not get it, and I had to push him out again.

I am not as good as you are. I do not have your strength. Or energy. I wore out sooner. I had no more to give. It really takes for us to be sick and tired to stop doing for them. It is contrary to everything in us and everything we believe about ourselves.

If you need to post every day all day, do it--to focus on you and your husband--your happiness, fun, well-being, health. Let him be. Let you son realize that he is in this alone. Because he will be. We die. And he will have to do it alone. Better now with you in the wings.

He will either do it or he will not. That is when things began to change for me. My bottom was when I realized I could not keep my son alive. He has Hep C and no matter what I did I could not get him to treatment. When I realized that I could not--ever get him to treatment--and he could well die in my lifespan, I got how little control I have. It is all on him. I am a bystander. I can do nothing without his buying in. And then, very, very little.

 

[toughlovin]

Thanks for all your comments it helps. My son has not called me back and to be honest I am kind of relieved. I think he got from our conversation yesterday that I am not anxious to help him right now so hopefully he is figuring things out. I have no idea. I am not contacting him either. I hope I can stay strong when that desperate call comes. I do know we have been there and been there for him, helped him over and over and over again and it has not helped so it is time to stop doing the same old thing.

RN I don't think my son would go to a shelter. He has spent time on the streets and does not like the shelters and I know a lot of homeless folks do not like shelters for various reasons. So if he ends up homeless he will probably be on the streets again. I dread that but it may be what needs to happen. I don't know.

I totally get that right now I can't give him any access to money because he will use it for drugs or alcohol and I don't want to supply his addiction. What is harder for me to know is how I will react if things get bad enough and he wants to go back into treatment. I think my response will be he has to figure it out, and there are people he can call for advice ....he made some good contacts with some very caring folks at his last treatment place. I think I need to not be involved in figuring it out..... His history is that he uses treatment to come in out of the cold.... but as he has shown that doesn't mean he is serious about recovery.... but how will I know he is serious? I don't think I can know.

 

[toughlovin]

Thanks Copa... we posted at the same time! It is a really hard realization to realize our kid may die before we do....but in our situation that is a real possibility. I think you are every bit as strong as I am by the way!! I realize though that at this point I know he does have the ability to figure it out and I just need to get out of his way. My husband is out of town tonight which of course makes all of this harder. I got nothing productive done today and my stomach is hurting. That seems to be right where my stress goes. Tomorrow however I am busy doing some fun things which is good.

 

[Copabanana]

Thanks Copa... we posted at the same time! It is a really hard realization to realize our kid may die before we do....but in our situation that is a real possibility. I think you are every bit as strong as I am by the way!! I realize though that at this point I know he does have the ability to figure it out and I just need to get out of his way. My husband is out of town tonight which of course makes all of this harder. I got nothing productive done today and my stomach is hurting. That seems to be right where my stress goes. Tomorrow however I am busy doing some fun things which is good.

Hi TL.

My quote machine is not working but I will do my best. My stomach is where I feel stress, too. You may have read about my black vomit!! I just had to share....I think the attitude you describe is a good one to adopt. He does know the whole drill now. He has contacts, and a support network should he decide to avail himself of it.

It is not so much that I think that our sons will likely die before us (although they may) it was that realization of how little anything I did or thought or wanted had any effect--unless my son wanted it. And for him to want it, I had to get out of the picture with all my wanting.

If you or your son have trouble with this new stance I would tell him the truth: I have realized I was getting in the way of your living your life the way you want to or need to. I am always here. We are always here, me and Dad. I love you and let us know what you decide and where you are.

I am tired, TL. Working long long days and I am old!!!

 

[toughlovin]

I have gotten clear for a while that only he can decide if he wants to be sober....so i have been trying just to give him loving support that a mother can give... and when he is seemingly working on sobriety that is good. But I think now he is not working on sobriety thinks he can drink or smoke pot moderately and so will totally use us to do that. He is on a very slippery slope and I don't want to help him slide down any faster. And truth is it is time for hm to support himself and not depend on us to constantly back him up and help him. And he is a master manipulator (as DarkWing says) and I need to remember that.... He has not called since the other day which says to me he got the message from my reaction that I wasn't going to give him anything so he is not asking at the moment. He knows I like to hear from him and generally will reach out to him when I haven't heard from him so I think we are playing a waiting game right now. If I reach out to him then he will see his opportunity and ask me for money. I have decided at this point that i am just going to wait it out. Hopefully in the mean time he will get more work.

 

[so ready to live]

TL- so sorry this is just plain awful.

. I think my response will be he has to figure it out, and there are people he can call for advice ..

I believe this is good, you can remind him there are people to call (and you are not these people). I do think as moms what we have proved, is that we are moms, not addiction counselors, not mental health professionals. This is way above our pay grade.

but as he has shown that doesn't mean he is serious about recovery.... but how will I know he is serious? I don't think I can know.

I know for my son, he is serious for a minute. When it gets too hard, he quits. A recovering addict said to us "well, it must still be fun. When it quits being fun, he'll do something different." The trick is for us to find peace in our lives and our relationship with them regardless of the knowing. The eastern thought of not judging everything as good or bad is so foreign to us. We just weigh events and people that way. But maybe we simply should be less sure that we know is ultimately good or bad for anyone else. Even our kids.

I have realized I was getting in the way of your living your life the way you want to or need to. I am always here. We are always here, me and Dad. I love you and let us know what you decide and where you are.

I really like this. It says it all. Thank you COPA. Prayers.

 

[BusynMember]

You will know when he is serious. His entire outlook will change. Everything you beg him yo do, he will have done on his own. He will dump any drug using friends.

I lived it. The changes you see make no room for doubt. I can't stress enough that the desire to change has to come from them, when drug using becomes, as my daughter said, "too hard." It has to be no fun. That's why enabling is bad. It makes their lives easier as they get high.

 

[toughlovin]

Well he certainly seemed serious a year ago.... and I think he was to a point. He knew he needed detox and he asked for it. He knew drinking was a problem and admitted it. He did well for a while and was proud of being sober for 3 months. He seemed to gain some insight.... and then he relapsed and started the cycle again. So I just don't know. He knows the right things to say and how to play the game so I am not really sure I will know. He seems to do well for about 3 months and then tends to lose his motivation to stay clean. I agree it needs to come from within. It is hard because he is across the country so I don't see him all the time. I know when he is doing well our interactions are different and right now they are not good... and he is not communicating with us. So I am pretty certain he is using regularly and not doing well....but the next time he wants treatment I think he might be serious but I don't know if it will last.

 

[RN0441]

Well he certainly seemed serious a year ago.... and I think he was to a point. He knew he needed detox and he asked for it. He knew drinking was a problem and admitted it. He did well for a while and was proud of being sober for 3 months. He seemed to gain some insight.... and then he relapsed and started the cycle again. So I just don't know. He knows the right things to say and how to play the game so I am not really sure I will know. He seems to do well for about 3 months and then tends to lose his motivation to stay clean. I agree it needs to come from within. It is hard because he is across the country so I don't see him all the time. I know when he is doing well our interactions are different and right now they are not good... and he is not communicating with us. So I am pretty certain he is using regularly and not doing well....but the next time he wants treatment I think he might be serious but I don't know if it will last.

TL it is the same cycle we have gone through with our son. Like Darkwing said, they aren't totally 100% wanting it so it will never work. They want a loophole or shortcut. None of which exist.

Same with us. The deterioration of our relationship with him when he is protecting the "addict" in him. It is all so really truly sad too since it is a disease. It's cruel and heartbreaking for us as parents that only want the best for our children.

 

[lovemyson1]

So so soooo sorry for what you're going through TL. It's hard to not worry and have pain when this is happening. I believe you need to try though. Try to distract yourself from what he's doing bc worrying will solve nothing, it only takes from your life. It's true what many have said here, only he can make the choice to get clean. Only he has the power to stop. We are not responsible for our Difficult Child's decisions and yet we blame ourselves, worry like crazy, cry, look for solutions... none of this is helpful. Until we let go and let them feel consequences for their actions and let them find solutions we will keep feeling this pain. I'm glad you are enjoying your husband and vacation. Enjoy your family, enjoy your life. Let your son know that you support his sobriety and then let him choose his destiny. Again, I'm sorry for your pain and wish none of us had to feel this way. God bless.

 

[mof]

I too am living this awful disease of addiction. We have to face our son tonight, this will be his last stint in our home. If he chooses recovery, the road he has been on, then fine....We will support him. But the get out of jail free cards are over.....I just feel the next call in the future will be his death......

 

[RN0441]

I too am living this awful disease of addiction. We have to face our son tonight, this will be his last stint in our home. If he chooses recovery, the road he has been on, then fine....We will support him. But the get out of jail free cards are over.....I just feel the next call in the future will be his death......

I worry about death too since mine came close to it last month. I think all of us here worry about that! How could we not?

 

[mof]

Sometimes it's hard to keep your head up.

 

[toughlovin]

I am doing better. My stomach is no longer tied up in knots although that can change with a phone call. It really helps that he has not called me back! I never thought I would be glad when he stayed out of touch and didn't call but I am relieved. He must be figuring out how to survive without help from us at least at the moment. I am getting clearer and just hope that I can stay strong when he does call us.

 

[mof]

Our son would not come home. HE moved in with friend he says is sober. Assures us he will stay clean so he can move back into his sober living house. They are giving him 7 days to prove himself, if he doesn't he will be dumped at s shelter. We would put him back I. A residential treatment. He will need more outpatient anyhow........

Dad is done....I'm broken...boy says don't worry..he's got this, had 6 months. It's so painful.

 

[mof]

Tough loving....Praying for your strength and your child's clarity....