WOW, me again.

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Big Bad Kitty, Jun 5, 2008.

  1. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    And for today's trick...Tink will come out of her room in tears and tell me that she does not feel safe around me.

    Because I told her to pick up her Barbies. And when she yelled at me, I hissed through gritted teeth that it is NOT OK to talk to me like that.

    THEN she called her useless father and told HIM that she did not feel safe around me. That SOB lives ACROSS the FRIGGIN STREET from me and he would not come and get her or even come over to give a hug and tell her that it would be OK.

    She she is crying that she misses her dad, telling him "I love you more", and now I can't hold it anymore and start bawling. And I don't even know why. Because my kid has found a new way to manipulate me. Because she called her father for help and he left her hanging. And because I do not know what to do with her anymore.

    Occupational Therapist (OT) went fine today, and we spent the afternoon in the pool. We get home and she is fighting me tooth and nail because I told her to stop calling her one friend and begging her to come over. This kid is another one. She tells Tink she will call her back but then never does. So TInk calls her over & over.

    I am so angry at the world right now. I am sick of people mistreating my kid, and I am sick of my kid mistreating me.


    Oh wait, NOW she is in my bed because she is afraid of robbers.

    God help me.
  2. Star*

    Star* call 911


    HUGE HUGS. Can you send her here? I'll keep her!! You need a break. Look up the word enmeshed - and you'll see my name next to Dudes because I had no money and NO idea how to get anyone to give me a break. WE became too close and it backfires every time. Are there any summer programs that can come get her? Church VBS or something?

    Glitterlips and Sparklefanny are pathetic. How about the beefcakes Mom? Would she take Tink for a weekend? A day? Something to get your batteries recharged?

    Can you get mental health in your area to give you respite so you can have a weekend of being semi-adult? What about mentor? What about Big sisters? What about YMCA? I'm just thinking out loud here.

    I'm so sorry - do you think she has some form of attachment disorder?
    Doesn't sound like just ADD to me.

    I wish I had more - (leans over and gives hug and ice cream cone)
  3. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    It's possible that this isn't about you, it's about her useless father. Maybe she is looking for a way to make him care enough to come take an interest in her.

    Honestly, he's a grown man. I'd walk her across the street and tell them to work it out. How on earth is he going to tell her "no"?
  4. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I do think this is less about you than you think it is.

    Invest in a nice set of foam earplugs and wear them constantly. Perfect the art of pretend listening and nodding at seemingly opportune times. Or just tell her that the doctor has informed you that your hearing is going and that you cant hear things anymore in certain sound ranges...those include whiny little girl voices.

    Just ignore her. Your life wont be over if she hates your forever, your so mean to her, she wants to live at (pick your poisons) house...blah blah. She will change her tune on this verbal assault many times over the years so just get used to it. Everytime you dont buy her what she will be the meanest mom on the planet and she is going to flounce off to wage war.

    I figure if we dont give them a reason to hate us enough to need therapy as an adult, we havent done our jobs right!
  5. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    I think Janet is right. Somehow, you need to find a way to disengage. She is manipulating you left, right and center. You need to step back and not let her get to you. I know, easier said than done. been there done that.

    It really is hard to single parent girls like ours. They want, need attention 28/9 (24 hours and 7 days a week isn't enough). The more you give, the more they want.

    I used to get the I'm afraid of you garbage. I just simply said, "I'm sorry you feel that way." Nothing more. No discussion, no debate, no engagement. She was free to tell the world what a rotten, mean mother I was. She was not free to tell me because I wasn't going to listen to it.

    Make you list of stock responses and stick with them. Reply in a monotone even when you're ready to explode. Do not debate, discuss or interact. Simply acknowledge the basic statement. Give a simple yes or no where needed. Ignore the rest. Yes, she will escalate at first. Yes, it will be hard and painful and difficult and you won't always succeed. However, unless you want to spend the next 13+ years in a battle of wills, you need to find a way to stop it now. She's not going to stop. This is working quite well for her. So, it is up to you to stop.

    I am sorry you are going through all of this. It took me two years to figure out that I needed to disengage from my daughter and probably at least two more years to disengage. It really did help, though. She might scream and have her temper trantrums but I didn't fall into the trap to escalate them. She quit "winning."

    Good luck!
  6. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    I use the "I am sorry you feel that way" lots. I usually say it with as little emotion as possible. I get the "you love her more, you hate me, " you know, all those wonderful things. You have to find a way to detach some, and to regain some type of control. Maybe not much, but some.

    You do need a break, and I hope you can find some way to get one.
  7. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    I do the crazymama thing - validate the emotion an dmove on thing a lot. Like "gee, you sure are mad/upset/angry/hurt/whatever". Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Worked well with difficult child 1.


    Second the motion to find respite.
  8. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    BBK -


    You have health issues that limit you. You were recently sent reeling over the thing with K. And then school let out.

    You haven't had time to recover from the thing with K. I know that one really sent you reeling. And even though you have closure on that now, it takes time for you to rebound from all of that emotion.

    You need a break. Can she stay with your parents or with one of your boy's moms like Star suggested?

    And you need to come up with the responses like MB said. Really. It's best to be prepared in advance, otherwise we react out of emotion.

    You need to be able to disengage. If she follows you from room to room screaming and crying, let her. It's soooooo hard. I would be just cringing or seething inside. But, outside I went about my business like everything was normal. It takes a lot longer for our kiddos to realize they aren't getting a reaction - they do tend to be a stubborn lot - but they eventually do.

    I agree with MB and Janet. She will just get better at it as she gets older and the tactics will change. I remember at that age, if difficult child was doing this and I got up and walked past her she would cringe like I was going to hit her. OMG. That used to p!ss me off so bad. I never gave her any reason to fear me. It was just manipulation. Or maybe a little fear on her part that she went too far. I don't know for sure. But, I do know that I have never abused my child or given her any reason to be afraid of me. And for her to act that way towards me? It cut to the core. I know what it's like to live in fear of a parent. It crushed me when she did that. But, I walked away and didn't say a word. I probably locked myself in my room and cried. I don't remember, but it's making me cry now just thinking of it.

    If you can't disengage alone, call someone when she's doing this. Call your mom. Call a friend. Heck, call me. I'll give you my number and I'm always home. And I don't mind listening to a kid interrupting and screaming in the background and mom crying and venting get the idea. Cause I know what it's like.

    On your other thread, Linda had some really good ideas. With Wynter, I knew she was capable of entertaining herself because she did it often. I don't know if Tink does or doesn't, so I don't know if she's not capable or just wants to be entertained.

  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Darling Kitty,

    The others are right. and it IS less about you than about her. I am totally convinced of this. Some of it is just to see if her dad loves her. Can you blame her for wondering??

    He is an excrementholder. I am sorry he hurts her so often.

    the love and logic books cover this totally. Please please look up the website ( and read it. THen try the books at the library, or heck, let me know and I will send you my copy. The Parenting withLove adn Logic book is fantastic.

    I also agree that you need regular breaks from Tink NOW, not in July. I am sure she is a cutie, but she is bored and into manipulation. Is there some kindo f program maybe like Star mentioned???


  10. house of cards

    house of cards New Member

    I'm sorry you are being emotionally beat up right now but I for one think her father not helping her was the best think to happen, she would have then done this anytime things didn't go her way. I also don't think it is so bad for the kids to see the hurt and tears they cause sometimes unless they get enjoyment from it. She is old enough to start to realize Mom has feelings too. Sending hugs.
  11. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    Sounds like Tink is experimenting with how fear can get her what she wants. "If I say I am afraid, where will that take me. Will that get me what I want?"

    She was just trying to find a way to see her dad. She was looking for an excuse to get you to help her get what she wants. She didn't know enough to just ask, "Mom, can I visist Dad?" It's like she felt she had to have her reasons ready. She must have lots of feelings about her relationship with her dad.

    I notice she then used a "I am afraid" statement to get your attention at bed time. This can be a real fear for a kid her age, especially if she heard something on the news. You may want to talk to her about how to handle real fears. "When we are afraid, we are more cautious however, we need to look for ways to overcome our fears. You know I would never hurt you. You know that I will keep you safe - we have a safe home - you do not need to worry about robbers."

    The others are correct in their responses. Just look at this as another way she is trying to get her way.
  12. 4sumrzn

    4sumrzn New Member

    It looks as if have gotten some good advice & suggestions. I'm so sorry you are feeling beat down & angry. I hope you can find a way to get a need some you time. {{{hugs}}}
  13. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    BBK, so sorry that Tink has a useless father. That will make it even more tough on you (speaking from my experiences with Miss KT and her useless father). If you want a shoulder in CA, PM me...I'll give you my number.
  14. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    OMG, where's the Kitty I know?

    Listen kiddo! Find the funny. She's twisting your knickers to see how far she'll get. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS keep in mind that she does too love you and she's not afraid of you and she's saying this stuff to get a reaction.

    Next time she says it say "bummer!" to her in the most dead-pan expressionless manner that you can muster. Then walk away, or roll over if you're laying down, or glance up behind the newspaper, etc.

    difficult child 3 "The Bean" causes what I call "cranio-rectal insertion" with me (gets me so crazy that instantanially have my head up my butt). She's in my lap, next to my bed at 3 a.m., knocking on the bathroom door, seeking me out CONSTANTLY!

    That's why I ended up moving her into Special Education. She would tantrum until they called me.

    Don't cater to it. Trying to give a positive spin on the Dad issue - it's probably best that he didn't come. Otherwise she'd dance him everytime she didn't get what she wanted out of you.

    My theory: as girls age, they show their moods more. The bean went through "three-m-s" and "meno-fours" before she became the great manipulator that a 6 year old can be.

    She's just now beginning to mellow (ever so slightly!).

    Otherwise, ship her down here to NY for a week and she can goof with mine while you r & r for a while. One more to the headcount is a piece of cake (just don't move before I can return her!).

    Hugs to you!

  15. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member

    BBK. The others have given excellent advice.
    All I will add is many gentle {{{{{HUGS}}}}}

  16. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    You are all so right. I completely need to disengage.

    It is SO hard to ignore her. She is so very "in your face". Plus, this is how I have always done things~ ie, giving her the opportunity to speak her mind. I watched Copper get walked all over growing up. I watched her grieve for years because her father is a complete zero. I did not want Tink to grow up to be a pushover (like me, like her sister) and instead she is an exact carbon copy of her manipulative father. I bent over backwards to keep a relationship alive between Tink and her dad. I did not want another child to grow up thinking her father did not love her. So I eat crow. I walk on eggshells around him more now than I ever did when we were together. how sad is that? All for her sake.

    I have always been a certain way with Tink. Change is scary. I am afraid of what she will do next if I ignore her. I know I need to just do it. She and I are SO co-dependent on eachother for happiness. It is not fair to her OR me. I have never been good at drawing boundaries with ANYONE. This kid crosses the line in the sand every. single. time.

    I don't know how this monster was created. I don't mean Tink, I mean the whole situation. I did call my mother last night to vent. She has a hard time just listening because she has opinions on how I could be doing things different. Many are spot-on, most are "just crack her one". Like that helps.

    I do have a break this weekend. She goes to see her father. See, that was planned last night before she even called him. He and I talked just a couple hours before and planned that she would go to his place today after lunch ans stay the weekend. When she called him, she was looking to just get there earlier. On one hand, he knew that she was pushing my buttons and would not feed into it. And good for him. He can do that with her. She knows where the line is with him. On the other hand though, if MY kid called me saying that he/she did not feel safe where she was, I would have at LEAST asked to talk to the person in charge. He just told her she would be fine and that he would see her tomorrow. Moron. Anyways, I get a couple days respite, then she will be back worse than ever because she is always like that after seeing dad. Gaaahhh.

    Once again, thank you all for your suggestions. I will definitely get ahold of the book Love & Logic. I am waiting for the YMCA to let me know if she is qualified for a scholarship for daycamp. If she is, I may be able to get her in for the last couple weeks of June AND a few weeks in August. I really am trying to keep her structured for the summer.
  17. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Actually, I rather like that the sperm donor didn't bother talking to you. It says he trusts you and thinks Tink is full of it. As he said, she'll be fine and she was.

    And I so understand the relying on each other for happiness. It was like that between my daughter and me. It took a long time to learn that I didn't have to entertain her, that I could ignore her and she wouldn't die, that I had a right to say no. Yes, she escalated as I learned that lesson.

    She started doing real damage to the house. Her rages lasted longer. I decided I could repair the house but I couldn't help her become an independent adult by giving in to her. I could stop the rage but that wouldn't help her learn how to control herself. So long as I looked at things that by me not doing X, it would help her become the adult I hoped she would become, I found it easier to not give in, to not engage, to not try to be everything to her.

    While she is at her dad's, take Saturday and just relax. On Sunday, start writing out what you want changed and what you plan to do to start those changes. Then make a list of what you expect Tink to do to help her cope with these changes. When she comes home, sit her down and tell her this is the way it will be. Let her know nothing is up for discussion or debate. When she tries to argue, walk away, say nothing. When she escalates, just keep saying nothing or simply repeat "this is not up for discussion" in a very flat monotone. Do not engage.

    Once she has gotten over the initial shock, you can ask her what you think she can do to help make things better and write those down. Put the list of ideas where she can see them. Make up cute business cards with her ideas and simply hand her one when she forgets what she can do.

    When she does the following you around, screaming, demanding, pretend she is a pain in the neck puppy that you need to walk around even while it is nipping at your heels. You don't want to say anything to agitate the puppy, you just want to get away from it. If you can't safely get to your room, simply sit in a chair, put in some earplugs or cotton balls (let her see you putting them in) and say nothing until she has quit her haranguing and pestering.

    When you give her a choice and neither is good enough, then do nothing. Sit in that chair, plug in to some music (and ear plugs) and let her have her tantrum. You can help her clean up the mess when she's calm. Whatever you do, don't later give her the choices again -- she opted for nothing, so nothing is what she gets from you until the next day.

    As I said, I've been in your shoes and they. ain't. no. fun! It took about two years for me to learn how to not engage (and even today I blow it sometimes) but it really did make a huge difference and not just in our relationship, but her relationship with others. She learned that getting her way wasn't always worth the price. She wasn't quite as bossy. She learned that sometimes being nice was the way to go.

    She was and is still extremely manipulative. She still doesn't really "get" it when I tell her no but she accepts it more often than not. She can still argue a point into the ground but if I simply repeat my initial statement, she does get the message that the conversation is over on this end (she's free to argue until the cows come home but this mom ain't gonna ring the bell). I honestly believe if I hadn't learned to disengage, she would still be the same as she was at age 9 and that was not a likeable person by anyone's standards.
  18. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    MB, those are really good ideas.

    I already started disengaging today. She does not know what to do. She can't believe it! "MOOOM! Stop acting like that!" I have walked into my room no less than 10 times to get away from her so far today.

    OK, today I rest. Tomorrow, I brainstorm. THANKYOU.
  19. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It


    Check out as you brainstorm. It may have helpful ideas (it should).


  20. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Just sending some gentle hugs your way. I'm glad you are getting a break this weekend.