Yup - Mania Confirmed

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Janna, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. Janna

    Janna New Member

    per therapist at partial. I was on the phone with her today because psychiatrist still, since Thursday, has not returned a phone call or email. She's about ready to get fired :angrygirl:
    therapist confirmed my thoughts - mania - rapid cycling. Racing thoughts - noisy, disruptive (although not intentional - singing, humming, tapping, unable to stop), non stop talking about really nothing. Although she's not a psychiatrist, I think the two of us together have made our own diagnosis of this issue. She also said although the obsessive compulsive thoughts (which are constantly getting worse) are symptomatic of Aspergers - they can also be tied to BiPolar (BP), but we're still not going there. We're still at Mood Disorder-not otherwise specified, which really - whatever.

    I mentioned Klonopin, because Buspar isn't working. She thought that would be good to talk about (that whole line - Ativan, Xanex, etc). Going up on Seroquel - again, still waiting on psychiatrist :badmood: She mentioned Celexa. *sigh* @ antidepressants. Ahh.

    I don't know if we'll visit MS's again. Dunno what to do. But, it's clear my baby is struggling. He's not learning at all. The partial part is OK (not great but OK) - but academics, nothing gets done.

    His interaction is all inappropriate. Everything's about a rear end (butthead, buttcrack, butt something or other) or crack something (crackhead, crackbaby). Dunno where these words (especially the crack stuff) come from, and we mostly ignore it, but do reinforce it's inappropriateness.

    therapist is concerned because if D is not getting anything from the partial, the next step is Residential Treatment Facility (RTF). The next Residential Treatment Facility (RTF) is an excellent psychiatric facility, but 2 1/2 hours away. I have been postponing and trying to delay it as long as possible. But, I'm so worried it's inevitable.

    Thanks for listening to me whine. Blah - cruddy day :not_fair:
  2. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    Oh Janna, I am sorry. I hope something helps, and I wish I could do something other than just offer support and a cyber shoulder.

    My difficult child can get innappropriate with language too, and I have found that the response you mentioned works best. Tell him in a very calm voice that it is innapropriate and then walk away.
  3. klmno

    klmno Active Member

  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Janna, from our talk, I really think he needs Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) interventions. He won't get them from a psychiatrist or an Residential Treatment Center (RTC). This poor little guy has NO social skills. It's common for Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids to just blurt out silly words they heard and not really hold a give-and-take conversation, but an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) won't help that. As for mania--is he on stimulants or antidepressants? They can make a kid look manic even if he's not. Stimulants, in particular, are speed and, trust me--I tried Ritalin--they DO NOT calm everyone down. I was FLYING...lol. That is, I flew until I crashed. This child is not getting what he needs at school and it's making him unable to learn. L. needed a lot of help with academics, focus, and organization to function in school. Now he's pretty much on his own because he was taught how to do things that other kids seem to just learn by osmosis. I'd get down and dirty and force that mediation to get him intensive Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) interventions. Psychiatrists often are completely clueless about Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) and don't help. (((Hugs))) JMO
  5. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    Janna, sorry things are so rough. Glad the Seroquel is going up, but don't these docs know that Celexa fuels mania, not treats it? Yeesh!
  6. Janna

    Janna New Member

    I don't think this psychiatrist knows what she's doing. I already told her no to all the AD's and she keeps offering this medication (Celexa). I don't know what part of N-O she doesn't understand. Just like me telling her giving D the Concerta was making him more hyper and her sending me a Ritalin script for 4 PM to add to it. Me telling her the Buspar isn't doing anything and her wanting to wait until the end of Feb. Why? He's been on it 3 months. What am I waiting for? A miracle?

    I'm telling you, SW, if the worst psychiatrists in the world could get together, they'd live in my town. My luck with docs, in general - awful.

    P, I need to call you again. Early next week. I know he needs the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) interventions, but this is something else. Why don't you fly out here LOL! :D

    Thanks for everything guys.
  7. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I'm sorry he is struggling so much. The mania is so difficult to deal with. Sounds like it is time for a new psychiatrist. Hugs.
  8. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    ugh, I am sorry you are dealing with dimwits still. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with any of it if I were in your position.
    I would just want to run. His medications sound confusing as well as his diagnosis. It seems like the Docs change things to fit their moods or what they are comfortable with!
    Sounds a lot like K before we fled our podunk town.
  9. mstang67chic

    mstang67chic Going Green


  10. jannie

    jannie trying to survive....

    Sorry you're having such a tough time with D....I know how stressful that can be...sending hugs-
  11. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I'm telling you, SW, if the worst psychiatrists in the world could get together, they'd live in my town. My luck with docs, in general - awful.

    That sounds like the whole thing in a nutshell. I am so sorry for your frustration.

    You know, I"ve actually just "yessed" my way through appts, only to take the scrips and rip them up, along with-the doctor's ph #, and just start from scratch. Sometimes it's not even worth it to argue. Just move on.


    I'm sending strength.
  12. luvmyottb

    luvmyottb Guest

    Sorry you are having such a difficult time. I can't believe they psychiatrist would push for celexa if you are experiencing mania symptoms. Does psychiatrist read difficult child's chart or listen to you??

    Sending you a positive vibe and hope you get what you need for difficult child. He shouldn't have to suffer.
  13. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    the obsessive compulsive thoughts (which are constantly getting worse) are symptomatic of Aspergers - they can also be tied to BiPolar (BP),

    So, the $6 million question is, how DOES one tell the difference? We've got some OC issues here ... :(
  14. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Janna just read your other post here.
    Yep, you gotta find a new psychiatrist ASAP.
    Does the medical school there in PA have any bi-polar research going on right now? Or a psychiatrist that just graduated medication school?
    That is how I finally found one that really listened to me. She was young, fresh, and open to new ideas. The challenges that Matthew exhibited did not bore her, and bother her - but she embraced them with research and new ideas. I loved her to death. AND she called me back always within 24 hours - plus I had her cell phone for emergencies. That was what I needed to have in order to feel comfortable working with a psychiatrist. And I am sure you do to - you are just going to have to dig to find the right one. They are out there though.

    Matthew has NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) and BiPolar (BP) and that combo together, is oh so difficult. It needs a highly component psychiatrist to work with these kids.

    Whatever you do, like others have said, do not give into the ADs. Actually Buspar has a very, very low level of efficacy. It just barely touches anxiety, and it will do absolutely nothing for any of the other symptoms he is having. In fact it could be making the mania worse.

    Is there a phoshp he can stay in to get his medications back on track? He does not deserve to feel as manic as to put his head thru a window. Matthew has done that twice and both times he was hospitalized immediately because his mania just kept spiraling and spiraling.

    Thinking about you, and hoping things get resolved soon.
  15. kathryn481

    kathryn481 New Member

    may I ask what Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) is?
  16. wakeupcall

    wakeupcall Well-Known Member

    HI kathryn481, Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) is Pervasive Development Disorder!

    Welcome to our board!!
  17. Janna

    Janna New Member

    *sigh* dunno, Terry. I think this is one of my biggest issues with docs in general. And, honestly - D is so loaded up with everything, and this is why I have said, time and time again, you have to take every diagnosis at face value.

    I don't believe D has Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD). He does not have the repetitiveness that comes with it. His issue is the inability to "let it go" or to not worry about what the other person is doing ALL the time. It's a mental thing, but not with certain things LOL! I know, that makes no sense - I can't even really explain it. And really, the professionals can't either, that's what stinks.

    I had a long talk with the psychologist (psychologists really aren't my fave, but this guy is pretty cool - take that for what it's worth) that handles D's BHRS services regarding these obsessive thoughts. Initially, he didn't think it matched the Asperger criteria (the thoughts themselves, not the other issues) - however, our in home therapist, that spends 4 hrs every Saturday with D says it is very Aspie thinking, and his thoughts fit that. Then you ask therapist at partial - she says it's also typical of the Bipolar. Sooooooo.....I don't know?

    Dissociation - this has been brought up in the past. Confirmed? No. Again, in home therapist says he fits the criteria, displays it, it could be. Current half absent psychiatrist, not confirmed.

    Steely, the problem with the BiPolar (BP) stuff is that nobody seems to want to say Bipolar at the moment. Although that doesn't really matter to me, and the "professionals" opinions are what they are, my son is very complex, and that is where the problems come up. Because, even if he *IS* Bipolar, he is also Autistic. There's no dispute with that either. So, now I'm faced with this: do I take him to the Autism specialists or do I hospitalize him and take him to the Bipolar specialists? Also, BiPolar (BP) medications - don't work. Yes, he's been on all the mood stabilizers. Either he has massive side effects (Lithium induced hypothyroidism, the Synthroid induced mania, couldn't help the thyroid, d/c Lithium - Depakote, side effects included anger, aggression, etc - Tegretol - dizzieness and nausea - I could keep going on but you get the point) or they just did not work. His medication list is so long that most professionals don't even believe me when I say he's been on that much, and what do you do when you've exhausted them all?

    psychiatric hospital isn't really appropriate for D's care. Their typical stays are 7-10 days, and he honeymooned for nearly 6 months at Residential Treatment Facility (RTF). The thing is, once his "whatever you want to call it" rage is over - he's "normal". LOL! He had a huge rage this year, beginning of school, which led him to be drug out by the police and taken to the E.R. We spent 10 HOURS in the E.R. and the nurse came in and said I had such a pleasant, polite child and thanked D for being cooperative. She took me to the side and asked me why he was there, and when I told her, she looked at me like she didn't believe me (she had come in a couple of hours after his admission, so she missed the fun I guess).

    He is OK today, but still very, very high strung. I do believe the Buspar isn't doing anything at all. psychiatrist doesn't seem to have a clue, and now I have to find another, with really nowhere to go. This psychiatric Residential Treatment Facility (RTF) sounds like our only glimmer of hope right now, and the thought of Residential Treatment Facility (RTF), again - this time 2 hrs away - bothers me. If it's what he needs, it's what he needs, but *sigh* - not again.

    Thanks for all the thoughts.
  18. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    Buspar was no good for us also.
    The thing I have found over our short time, but my long time dealing with Mental Illness.
    Is that the Doctors who specialize in each disorder are going to *think* your child *has* that disorder regardless.
    Our job as parents is to always be one step ahead of them and to make them prove what they think.
    Like the guy who was trying to diagnosis K as having a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified. All of her symptoms could also be attributed to her BiPolar (BP).
    He was merely giving her the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified diagnosis because it is easier to receive *help* with this diagnosis. I said no fricken way, she does not have a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified, so I am not going to lie.
    Most of the Autism and Mental Illness symptoms overlap. So unless you have a great psychiatrist who knows his *stuff*, they will mess it up and they will confuse it.
    I take any therapist, Psychologists, diagnosis'es with a grain of salt. They may think they know what they are seeing, they may see K perseverating, but it is not because she is Autistic. It is part of her BiPolar (BP).
    Her sensory issues are part of her sensory processing disorder (SPD). Not Because she is Autistic.
    Just like her Hyperactivity and impulsivity is part of her instability and not ADHD.

    I just think most of these Docotors have no clue what they are dealing with.

    Then when you add a kid like D, who if he is truly on the Spectrum and has a Mood-Disorder. You need an exceptional Doctor!!!

    For us we have learned that we treat the symptoms, the ones causing the biggest issues.
    Then the therapies. I firmly believe that therapies for Autism help all of our kids regardless of diagnosis.
    I just wish they were more readily available!
    For us so far Occupational Therapist (OT) and Therapeutic Horse Riding have been by far the best.

    I don't know I am kind of rambling, I feel your frustration. I just want to whack the medical field in the you know what.
  19. Janna

    Janna New Member

    I understand what you're saying, T. I think that's why diagnosis'es are so hard to nail down. In home therapist mentioned Schizophrenia today. Just another passing thought.

    Her suggestion/thought (on top of psychiatric Residential Treatment Facility (RTF)) is a long term study. She feels medication wash with EEG/MRI etc after is highly imperative right now along with strict psychiatric evaluating. This kid is just a bag full of stuff. The going from Conduct Disorder out of control cursing 18 year old to the quiet, withdrawn 4 year old in a matter of minutes is now another new concern.

    I have some research to do yet again.

  20. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I think you're all correct about treating the symptoms and the behaviors. Getting to the root of it takes yrs ...

    I'd love therapeutic horseback riding for myself ... :)