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<blockquote data-quote="buddy" data-source="post: 468904" data-attributes="member: 12886"><p>Story of my life. I walk that fine line too. We want them to reach their potential and we have to try to help them if at all possible to learn that there are consequences (good and bad) for what they do or dont do. BUT when it comes to punishment that is directly related to the limits they have because of their disability I take a strong stand. My son would not participate in ANY school event, go on any trip, go to any party if I punished him by taking away those kinds of things. We have to look at the big picture and for children who can't do that at all themselves (much less many folks in their lives) we need to do it for them. I can count on my son loosing control even more when something fun like an afterschool activity or a school party is going on. I have warned school to never threaten he can't go (now, if he goes and disrupts it or is not able to be safe, he has to leave like any time his brain wont let him function well). It is just not fair. With all we have been going thru, I have done a lot of on line reading and the bottom line is if it is related to his disability, it violates his civil rights to take such things away. </p><p></p><p>I have an article saved written by a psychiatric who used to believe in the whole straight behavioral method for doing things, then she had a couple of difficult child's. she tried the sticker charts, neg. consequences (punishment), time out, etc. all her bag of tricks. She now writes about difficult child's and how these things just dont make sense. Research does not support the use of such methods for difficult child's with these kinds of issues. When people use them they are being lazy and ignorant. There are other methods to actually achieve a change in behavior if the child has a potential for change. One of the questions I ask when I hear my difficult child is going to be suspended is, what is the goal of this suspension. They often will say well they have to show that they are doing something or other kids/staff/parents will think he is getting away with something. I remind them that it is illegal to tell anyone what you are doing consequence-wise anyway so unless they are ok with breaking the law they better have a better reason. They often get so stuck in their reasoning that they just stop answering and he still gets the suspension. I remind them that if they are telling anyone that they are doing something about it, they are lying. I also remind them that IF suspension would have ever worked for my kid, I would be the FIRST one to tell them to suspend him. They will say, well he will think he can get away with things. Even if he says that to their face, he knows it is not true because he gets dozens of negative consequences per day. Doesn't get to earn what he is working for, doesn't get to go to a class becasue he is not in green zone, doesn't get to have peer time, doesn't get to go to lunch, blah blah blah. As dr. phil says, How's that working for ya?</p><p></p><p>I have no easy answer, I keep fighting the system and at the same time keep trying methods (a little bit of natural or rather logical consequences like if you wont get ready with a tv ON, then it can't be ON or if you use inappropriate language outside you can't be outside right now. ) If I have to threaten to take something he loves away because we are in a dangerous situation, like he is kicking me from the back seat while I am driving, I have learned to take away PARTS of things (again, if he has no hope and the world has ended, mine loses it like yours does...way beyond what is worth it-it is NOT a manipulative or taught behavior-it is their level of anxiety and rage issues). So I might say, you just lost one hour of NASCAR. There are times when, if he really turns it around, he can earn some of the time back by doing extra jobs, writing notes to me-works on his thoughts and writing at the same time-keeping calm for X amount of time, etc.... Just depends on the situation. </p><p>I am sure many people will disagree with lots of this, but it really depends on the child.</p><p></p><p>by the way for running away, I have told my difficult child, if he can't stay with the group or in the school boundaries then he will need someone to walk with him. If he says he wont I have said I will be the one to stay with him in school. He says that will be embarassing and no way he will do that. I have also said I can some and sit in a class if he needs help not interrupting the class. he really hates it if I say I might need to hold his hand. </p><p>Do people chase your son when he runs....our staff have learned if he threatens to take off or starts to to just turn away...he is too chicken to really run. They dont give it the attention he is seeking. He used to think it was funny and it only happened when another kid said, lets run over here.... He hasn't done it on his own during school but has done it with Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) workers. Not for over a year thank heaven. So there are ways to work on it without a suspension which does not connect directly to the behavior.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="buddy, post: 468904, member: 12886"] Story of my life. I walk that fine line too. We want them to reach their potential and we have to try to help them if at all possible to learn that there are consequences (good and bad) for what they do or dont do. BUT when it comes to punishment that is directly related to the limits they have because of their disability I take a strong stand. My son would not participate in ANY school event, go on any trip, go to any party if I punished him by taking away those kinds of things. We have to look at the big picture and for children who can't do that at all themselves (much less many folks in their lives) we need to do it for them. I can count on my son loosing control even more when something fun like an afterschool activity or a school party is going on. I have warned school to never threaten he can't go (now, if he goes and disrupts it or is not able to be safe, he has to leave like any time his brain wont let him function well). It is just not fair. With all we have been going thru, I have done a lot of on line reading and the bottom line is if it is related to his disability, it violates his civil rights to take such things away. I have an article saved written by a psychiatric who used to believe in the whole straight behavioral method for doing things, then she had a couple of difficult child's. she tried the sticker charts, neg. consequences (punishment), time out, etc. all her bag of tricks. She now writes about difficult child's and how these things just dont make sense. Research does not support the use of such methods for difficult child's with these kinds of issues. When people use them they are being lazy and ignorant. There are other methods to actually achieve a change in behavior if the child has a potential for change. One of the questions I ask when I hear my difficult child is going to be suspended is, what is the goal of this suspension. They often will say well they have to show that they are doing something or other kids/staff/parents will think he is getting away with something. I remind them that it is illegal to tell anyone what you are doing consequence-wise anyway so unless they are ok with breaking the law they better have a better reason. They often get so stuck in their reasoning that they just stop answering and he still gets the suspension. I remind them that if they are telling anyone that they are doing something about it, they are lying. I also remind them that IF suspension would have ever worked for my kid, I would be the FIRST one to tell them to suspend him. They will say, well he will think he can get away with things. Even if he says that to their face, he knows it is not true because he gets dozens of negative consequences per day. Doesn't get to earn what he is working for, doesn't get to go to a class becasue he is not in green zone, doesn't get to have peer time, doesn't get to go to lunch, blah blah blah. As dr. phil says, How's that working for ya? I have no easy answer, I keep fighting the system and at the same time keep trying methods (a little bit of natural or rather logical consequences like if you wont get ready with a tv ON, then it can't be ON or if you use inappropriate language outside you can't be outside right now. ) If I have to threaten to take something he loves away because we are in a dangerous situation, like he is kicking me from the back seat while I am driving, I have learned to take away PARTS of things (again, if he has no hope and the world has ended, mine loses it like yours does...way beyond what is worth it-it is NOT a manipulative or taught behavior-it is their level of anxiety and rage issues). So I might say, you just lost one hour of NASCAR. There are times when, if he really turns it around, he can earn some of the time back by doing extra jobs, writing notes to me-works on his thoughts and writing at the same time-keeping calm for X amount of time, etc.... Just depends on the situation. I am sure many people will disagree with lots of this, but it really depends on the child. by the way for running away, I have told my difficult child, if he can't stay with the group or in the school boundaries then he will need someone to walk with him. If he says he wont I have said I will be the one to stay with him in school. He says that will be embarassing and no way he will do that. I have also said I can some and sit in a class if he needs help not interrupting the class. he really hates it if I say I might need to hold his hand. Do people chase your son when he runs....our staff have learned if he threatens to take off or starts to to just turn away...he is too chicken to really run. They dont give it the attention he is seeking. He used to think it was funny and it only happened when another kid said, lets run over here.... He hasn't done it on his own during school but has done it with Integrated Listening Systems (ILS) workers. Not for over a year thank heaven. So there are ways to work on it without a suspension which does not connect directly to the behavior. [/QUOTE]
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