Did I do the right thing??

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Kjs, Sep 14, 2007.

  1. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    After the school meeting, the spec. ed. teacher wrote me and told me that each teacher has a copy of the IEP.

    He told me he would keep me informed on each class removal.

    The reason I have this in the IEP is because he was removed and spent so much time in the office that I wasn't aware of it could of added up to months. So, I had it added that I be notified and it be documented the amount of time he is removed from class.

    Ok. My sleep time is afternoon/evening, so I had limited time with difficult child yesterday. During that time he told me he was kicked out of Gym. it was the first day of Health(classroom) portion.
    I asked him where he went, and he said to the office.

    So, I forgot to ask him who he talked to or how long he was there. I know there is more to it than just talking. I emailed the spec. ed. teacher again today and informed him that difficult child was removed again. I was not notified. Could he please check on where he was, what the situation was, the time he was in the office and who he spoke to.

    Meanwhile, difficult child calls me. I asked him who he spoke to. It was one of the Dean's that I had requested over and over for two years he not deal with. She yells, accusses, and doesn't let you say a word. (not even parents). This causes so much anxiety and anger in difficult child he yells back and it is all down hill from there. I had instructed difficult child that he is NOT to speak with her, he can see anyone else except her. I spoke with the principal and told her the same thing. She agreed. There are two dean's this year, counselors, vp and principal. I asked Special Education teacher if gym teacher was aware of IEP. I asked him what it is I need to do to insure that this Dean has no dealings with difficult child. I told him I would rather come pick difficult child up than have him deal with this lady. (This could avoid a very bad outcome) after he yells back..she threatens to call the police..every time! So, I would rather pick him up if there is nobody available to speak to him.

    Well, I get a response from Spec. ed. teacher. Ooops..he forgot to inform the elective teachers that difficult child has an IEP. And he will look into the other issue. :grrr:

    So, did I do the right thing? Should I be going directly to the principal? Should I push it further or give them a chance since it is early in the year? Will they take it out on difficult child if I push it? I know retaliation is against the law, but they could make things awful for him.

    I am ready to go back to school.
     
  2. SnowAngel

    SnowAngel New Member

    We had communication errors at our school. If you dont feel that the teacher is informing the other teachers then go up the ladder. The principal should know what is going on so that your needs are enforced.

    I always e-mail the teacher first,get their response and decide from there what the next step is. Sometimes I have to go to the principal. I cant deal with the assistant principal as she sees him as a problem. Our principal is very understanding and makes accomidations for children with needs.

    Bottom line is if you feel it is falling on deaf ears,put everything in writting and take it to the principal. If it isnt corrected in a timely manor go to the school district.I am sure others will have advice...hang in there.
     
  3. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    Absolutely, you did the right thing. We also had communication errors at the junior high level most of all. I had to make a special request that neither difficult child nor easy child had anything to do with the junior high guidance counselor. That went fine.

    There was one teacher I also isntructed the school that difficult child was not allowed to interact with due to some rude comments he made about a t-shirt she was wearing. Most of the time it went well, but the following year guess who she got for SS?? The very same teacher I had instructed the school she not have contact with. It was just unbelievable.

    You have to do what you have to do.
     
  4. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    Problem is I met WITH the principal one on one. The principal was IN the IEP meeting last spring. The principal was IN the meeting last Tuesday. The principal is the one who had come up with a plan on where difficult child should go, and who to talk to. The goal to keep him out of the office, and be able to redirect him to class.

    So..she heard the teachers say they didn't know he had an IEP. She heard my requests about being informed of class removal, and that was on his IEP.

    I don't want to get caught up in this frustrating neverending school fight again.
     
  5. Jules71

    Jules71 Warrior Mom since 2007

    You did the right thing. Why can't these people get it together? It's a full time job keeping up with this stuff.
     
  6. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    You did the right thing. Now it's time to follow up in writing. Again. You don't have to do anything more than minute things. Like I put in another thread of yours, simply say,
    "Dear sir, this is to keep you informed of our progress in issues concerning difficult child. [then you put in your notes of what has been happening]. I am concerned that teachers still are not fully informed that difficult child has an IEP, let alone having had a chance to read it. I also want to repeat - difficult child is to have nothing to do with [Dean] and she is to have nothing to do with him. Any consequences as a result of failure to follow through on this, I will consider to be entirely the school's responsibility, as I have repeatedly requested this with good reason.

    With ongoing communication, it does seem we are slowly making progress, although I am disappointed things could not be rectified faster, especially since you have had plenty of notice of these issues.

    I look forward to more positive news in the future.

    sincerely, Kjs."

    By doing this, you're forcing the school to have records of YOUR communications. And if at any future stage this Dean takes difficult child's number and then ends up calling the police, you have the school on toast. You also, in such an event SHOULD notify the school district. In fact, if there is ANY problems with this woman AFTRER your letter has been received by the school (give them a week's grace; no more) then you should write a letter to the District complaining about both this Dean AND the Principal's failure to prevent an incident you gave fair warning about.

    Letters like this are necessary. They can also still be friendly, non-confrontational, and still achieve their purpose - which is to make the schools do what they promise and to hold them accountable when they do not. Letters also provide a paper trail to prove that you have warned the school of any problems, in writing. I have had many reasons to be grateful for my paper trails, as when either a school or some other official tries to argue that black is white and I have no written information otherwise; they get a surprise when I pull up the records.

    School officials can be bullies. This means you DON'T bully back, but you DO respond firmly and politely. It DOES bear fruit because like most bullies, they are also cowards who know to not take on someone with more clout than they have.

    Marg
     
  7. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    Well once again he was removed from class. I have his story which sounds like it was a prior to class goofing around issue.
    He told me he wasn't able to speak to anyone they sent him directly to ISS.
    Special Education teacher did inform me that he was removed. He wasn't clear. It sounded from him as if he was removed for two periods.

    I am not clear what procedures difficult child is to follow. he asked to see social worker and was told no. I am just frustrated.
    I feel bad. difficult child knows if he is removed from a class he is not allowed any evening activities..including computer. Tonight was skate night. So, I felt bad since he really has become quite a loner, I would like him to join in activities that involve other kids his age.

    Oh well. Just venting my frustration.
     
  8. Fran

    Fran Former Site Owner

    My experience is that if there is a request out of the ordinary that it is often forgotten in the rush of everyday school.
    Of course, that isn't your problem. If it is in an IEP it should be followed.

    I get the feeling that the issue isn't not being notified as much as being informed in a way that is productive for your difficult child. If he starts reacting to consequences then it is downhill. Does your difficult child realize that if he stops goofing off he doesn't have to deal with these issues and he doesn't have to be a loner?

    I understand that restricting from activities in some difficult child's is not a consequence but a set up for a life that is removed from the mainstream. It's not the appropriate consequence for some difficult child's. I would not use a blanket approach to consequence.

    Ex) many suggested to take driving priveledges away from difficult child as a consequence. In our case it's inappropriate. Driving was a big leap in his independence. He is a safe driver and it took us a long time to get him safe enough to drive. It gave him a sense of normalacy he didn't get.
    I would take driving priveledges from easy child if I needed to because it would be an appropriate consequence.

    If your son has social skills issues, then I would let him do the social things like skate night with restrictions. If he gets in trouble, he can't go next time. Work on what is appropriate behavior when going out in a peer group. We did role playing and conflict resolution before walking out the door. Some of it stuck but usually he could hold it together for those 2 or 3 hrs where we prepped him.

    I would try to work things out with Special Education teacher and your concerns. I don't see the school letting you choose who your son can talk to in regards to the vice principal. I really don't. I would have a bit of a conversation with threats of calling the police as a therapeutic behavior modification.
     
  9. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    Does he have a behavior intervention plan (BIP)?
     
  10. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    Taking difficult child out of the classroom prevents him from learning. This past incident on Friday was during passing time. He and a friend were goofing around. Friend gave difficult child her sunglasses, which he put on and walked into class. Friend followed and asked for them back. Teacher said..get out, go to the office.
    Bell had not yet rung. So..am I the only one that does not see the issue here? He was sent to in school suspension because of this. I don't understand. I see kids swearing at staff members, refusing to go to class, leaving the building. I do not know what their consequenses are, but there are much worse things going on that wearing someone's sunglasses prior to the start of class.
    Things need some consistency here. If he talks he is out. (I went to school with him last year..kids get up and walk around during class and everyone talks)
    I can see if he becomes angry, raises his voice or is just too disruptive. He then needs some redirection. But this isn't happening. Before he even gets a warning he is getting kicked out. I am just worn out thinking about it. Not knowing what I should be doing...if anything.
     
  11. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    "Taking difficult child out of the classroom prevents him from learning."

    I fully agree, Kjs. The trouble is (and it's not fair) but our kids are held to higher behavioural standards, simply because they have problems.

    I'd be jumping on that one, hard. And I wouldn't be giving him any consequences for that at home, either. The one at school sounded unfair enough.

    But I would be double-checking the data, to make sure difficult child didn't leave out anything vital. Still... I agree, he shouldn't be 'rewarded' by not having work to do. I've never understood the logic of that one.

    Marg
     
  12. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Ok, something is wrong here. Either your son is not telling you what is really going on, or this school is deliberately picking on your son - or some combo of both. Your example of the sunglass incident is a great indication of this. Why would your son be asked to go to the office for walking into the classroom with sunglasses on? Was he walking in loud and goofing around and asked to quite down and came a smark comeback? Was he using inappropriate language? Was the other student insisting they got the glasses back and your difficult child was not cooperating? What really happened? If it is the truth, I would be marching up there asap!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It appears he is being removed every day. This is unacceptable! The IEP, with you being notified upon removal is not good enough! Being notified does nothing to address why he is being removed. Missing all this instructional time means he is loosing ground academically. Perhaps he feels is useless to even try anymore.

    Something has to give here. This is a totally stagnent situation. If is not fair to difficult child if he is being treated unfairly. It is not fair to you. It is not fair for the teachers who have to continually deal with difficult child or the administration that has to deal with him when he has been removed from the classroom. It is no win all around.

    Has the school done a Functional Behavor Analysis and identified behavior triggers at school or times of the day when he is most likely to be defiant or disruptive? Has his psychiatrist or therapist offered you any suggestions for his school behavior? He should certainly have a BIP (Behavior Intervention Plan) in place. If so, it appears it is not being followed. If not, request the FBA immediately.

    I'll tell you Kjs, if my difficult child (who is the same age of you and had tons and tons of classroom removals in the past) was dealing with this many issues at school, I would be questioning the school enviornment or my kids diagnosis!

    Something is not right here. You have done everything right so far. But your son is still suffering. He cannot be happy. The other kids know he is being removed. He will shortly be labled "bad" by the other students as it appears the school has already labled him such.

    Maybe, since the IEP has so recently been brought to their attention, things will settle. But the start of the school year really is important because it sets the tone.

    I wonder how difficult child feels about all these class removals. Does he cry? Does he complain? Is he sad or mad? Or does he not care.

    My gut tells me that the school is playing a significant role in all of this. That does not abolish difficult child's responsibility, but I know first hand how an unreasonable, or uninterested, or judgemental teacher can set or kids off.

    If I were you, I would begin to investigate the "services" section of the regs and look into a 1:1 which can be justifed under the LRE guidelines. It may benefit your son to have an aid or 1:1 with him. This person could step in and end or calm behaviors to difficult child can stay in the classroom which is, by definiation the most least restrictive enviornment.

    Sorry this was so long Kjs. But I just don't want your son to be negatively impacted by the school's policy of continued classroom removals. Nor do you want difficult child to give up on school.

    Sharon
     
  13. ML

    ML Guest

    I just wanted to say that I'm sorry the year is starting off on a frustrating note. Big hugs, (((KJS))). MicheleL
     
  14. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Spot on, Sharon.

    It could be a combination of things - the school being extra tough AND difficult child not telling the whole story (which IS the sort of lie an Aspie kid can tell - they CAN lie by omission, they're just not very good at inventing a total fiction and sticking to it effectively). And I do think your difficult child is Aspie, at least. Because it looks exactly like so many other Aspies I have known, including my own and all his friends.

    difficult child 1's best mate at school had the teachers terrified of him. I think it was a combination of his large size, his totally blank expression and his very dry humour. I know husband's very dry humour and complete lack of expression when cracking a joke has had some people wondering what planet he came from - so he started deliberately smiling when telling a joke, so people would know.

    husband was never diagnosed with anything, but we're fairly sure, with hindsight, he's Aspie, although if so he is remarkably adapted.

    difficult child 1's best mate - they asked him to leave school once he was old enough because they were afraid of him. He had been victimised for several years by the deputy principal, who was also picking on other kids including difficult child 1. She would seek out and hassle the kids who were 'different' - although if they had support funding, she didn't want them to leave, when it came down to it. She just wanted to assert her own authority (= bullying, in my books).

    This is what can happen with a kid who APPARENTLY defies authority (by being different) especially if they are bright (because they clearly are laughing at the teacher behind their backs = teacher is paranoid). These kids can quickly end up being victimised. And the other kids can quickly learn that difficult child is a handy scapegoat. Someone toilet-papered the staircase? Must have been difficult child... and when difficult child says, "It wasn't me," he gets lying added to his list of crimes.

    This is why I stopped punishing my kids at home, for things which happened at school. I could never be sure that things had been handled appropriately. I also found I got more honesty from my kids when they knew they had immunity at home - and frankly, honesty at home is far more important than grounding a kid for being thrown out of class again.
    When your child KNOWS that you will do nothing to him if he admits his part in something, he is far more likely to tell you. I found this - maybe it's the Aspie component. difficult child 3 will sometimes not tell everything that happens but he doesn't try (any more) to make up something else. Nor does he try any more to say, "I didn't do it." Now, if t here's an incident (such as the recent attack) we talk it through and I question him CAREFULLY (you have to avoid inventing an alternate reality yourself) to extract every scrap of truth I can get.
    With your difficult child, I would first ask him to tell me what happened, in his words. No reaction from you, no getting angry. Just impartial listening. Then ask a few SIMPLE questions. When did the bell ring? Was he still in the classroom, or was he already on his way to the principal's office? Did he have any work given to him to do while out of class? What subject was it? Which teacher was it? Which kid's sunglasses? How does he get on with that kid/that teacher/that subject?
    Then you finish with, is there anything you feel I still don't know about this? Anything you have left out in any way, accidentally or because you don't want to remember it? (Do not imply any fault at any time).

    You now have as complete a story as you will get from him, without being able to prompt his memory by telling him what other people also recall.
    If at a later stage a teacher says to you, "I bet he didn't tell you that he was making rude gestures at me as he left the room," or similar - please be aware, teachers who feel they have over-reacted (and hey, you know as well as we all do, we all have our moments when we go over the top!) will try to backpedal and make the kid look bad, or deflect your anger at them back onto the kid. Don't be deflected. A statement like that from the teacher - "Thank you for telling me this. I will take that up with him." (And even if he DID make rude gestures as he was sent from the room - I think I would have too!). Later on you could say to him, "I understand the frustration you felt when sent from the room, but rude gestures are not appropriate and didn't achieve anything." No need to punish further - your point has been made, he probably already had made the same point to himself.

    Now I only use that hypothetical teacher statement as an example, but watch for that sort of thing. When a teacher begins to throw these into the pot, where they were never listed on the original report, then the teacher knows they have overstepped the mark and done the wrong thing. it's a sign the teacher now feels guilty and is trying desperately to cover tracks. it means you have hit the mark and made your point. You often don't need to say anything - a look is enough. A look that says, "yeah, right." And let's move on to something relevant, ma'am.

    Kjs, you have a difficult situation here and I don't see difficult child as the main problem. If he wasn't a difficult child you may still have hassles with this school - he's a bright kid, and some teachers can't cope emotionally with the thought that a student may know more than them, and also be a smart alec.

    Then again, if he IS being a smart alec, it needs to be put in perspective. He IS a difficult child, this needs to be considered and not punished automatically, as you would for a easy child. A lot of difficult children, especially Aspies, seem like smart alecs purely as a defence. It's how they interact. "I bet you didn't know that Galapagos tortoises live the longest of any animal in the world," delivered totally at random and completely irrelevantly in the middle of a class, is a typical Aspie social comment although in a easy child it would be seen as insolence. An Aspie wouldn't intend it as insolence - they're simply sharing something that delights them.

    it's a matter of changing mindset to the kid, to then help the kid change their mindset back to what is acceptable. And a lot of schools have trouble with this.

    Good luck. Put on your steel-capped boots and warrior armour. I wish I could go into that school with you.

    Marg
     
  15. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    I think you might want to consider re-doing the IEP entirely. It sounds like the teachers are using the office as a way to immediately get him out of the class before he has a chance to truly act up. That is totally unacceptable.

    I would also change the at-home policy. Unless you are given some very concrete reasons why he is removed from class and YOU feel they are good reasons, he should be allowed all after-school activities previously planned. It is not fair to him to be punished when he did no more than the average kid would have done.

    It is up to the school to insure that your son gets an education and that is not happening. If the teachers are going to remove him from class for breathing funny, then there needs to be an appropriate study hall of some sort for him to go to for that specific class rather than just sitting in the office.

    One thing that I did have in my daughter's IEP was that any in-school classwork missed or not completed was to be sent home with an email from the teacher letting me know what she needed to do. So, on top of homework, she would be required to do the missed assignments and no "fun" time until it was all completed. Of course, the teachers did not follow this too well but that was their problem -- they couldn't mark her work incomplete or not done at all if they didn't notify me. She would have to be graded on work turned in and if that was zero work and they failed to notify me that work was missing on the day it was missing, she was to be given an A for that class. As I explained to the teacher, I would happily work WITH them but they had to work with me.

    I'm truly sorry your son is being treated so shoddily by the school. He deserves a chance.
     
  16. 1905

    1905 Well-Known Member

    OOPS? First of all, if he's in a sp. ed. class he should NOT ever be removed from the classroom to sit in the office! I can understand if he needs to be removed for a few minutes until he calms down, but nothing more. There should be an aide with him. He definately has to be held to different standards. School needs to be succesful for him. He can't help how his brain is feeling. Why is he being held to the same standards as the regular ed kids? He shouldn't be. This gets me so mad!! The principal needs to make sure everyone that has contact with your child is aware of this IEP. There needs to be a better behavior plan. Sitting in the office isn't a good one.-Alyssa
     
  17. weaselqt

    weaselqt New Member

    At the school I work at, I know that there have been IEP's conducted with ALL teachers involved, including principal and any administrative staff from the school and school board office.

    I also know of teacher's who do not CARE what an IEP states and will give the student AND spec. ed. teacher a hard time. We will tell her that the IEP is a binding contract and must be followed because it is law, she seems to get angry and take it out on us. Personally, I think HER problem is that she doesn't like to have students in her class who aren't gifted. She is'nt nice to ANY student who struggles, spec. ed or not.

    Another thing I know is that school idstricts PROTECT their teachers, good or not. They don't want to admit if they have bad teachers - and there are some at every school. I get so frustrated with both my difficult child's school - it makes me sick. As well as this certain teacher who thinks it is just FINE to send a student to us to take her math test 10 minutes before recess starts, and the student can't read and we have to read the test to him. ARGH!!!!!! She has kids rushing through the test so they can go outside to play - DUH! they can't focus - they want to play.

    I think having another IEP will be needed - but find out the whole story. difficult child can tell truth without revealing it all.

    Good luck and keep us posted!
     
  18. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    (((KJs)))

    You have been having the hardest time with your son & school since the day we came on this board (we arrived within days of eachother, I think).

    I see an inept school with a staff that likes to point their fingers at eachother. I also see a boy who does not like to tell you the entire story. The combination is extremely frustrating. You spend half your time making sure that the school is doing right by your son, and as soon as you think that you have all that set up, your son screws something up and then the school sends him out of the room or something. So you have to go to bat for him again. It is a neverending battle for him.

    I like the idea of redoing the IEP all over again. Did you have an advocate for the last one? Can you have his doctor attend? Something needs to change. You will slide into a horrible depression if you have another year like last year.

    Want me to come up to WI and light a match under husband?
     
  19. Kjs

    Kjs Guest

    I recieved an email from the Special Education teacher. Saying that he became angry when redirected, english teacher rang the buzzer for an escort and he ran away from the escort. When the escort finally caught up with him he was placed in ISS and asked to write a statement.

    I had a detailed conversation with difficult child.

    The information I had earlier was from a very short on the go conversation on my way out the door.

    I went through the email line by line, questioned difficult child, as did husband at a seperate time.

    He had borrowed the sunglasses earlier in the day. He had them with him (not on) for three periods. He had a pass and went to his locker. when he was on his way back to class she followed him into his class and asked for them back. He handed them over. No words exchanged. No attitude, no outbursts. the email said he "took" a students sun glasses. Nope..he borrowed them earlier. the email said he was redirected and became angry. Nope, difficult child said the teacher never asked him a question. Never said a single word. Pushed the buzzer for an escort. difficult child did not run away from the escort. He did leave and go to the office without waiting for the escort. He was found sitting in the office. He was not asked what happened. He was taken to ISS and then told to write a statement. His statement is not on the referral form, on a seperate peice of paper.
    He told them to speak to this girl to verify his story. They did not. He has to see the VP before he can return to any classes on Monday. I plan to go with. He is being punished before he is even being questioned. I know this girl. She will not lie. husband even said if I cannot go with him on Monday, he will. He never goes to school.
     
  20. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    That's even worse that I thought, Kjs. It really does sound like this teacher jumped to conclusions (based on reputation?) and didn't give him a chance, trusting that her instincts were right.

    And it happened in English - this is a subject where Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-type difficult children can struggle when the work becomes more abstract and less concrete. She could well have pre-conceived ideas based on reputation.

    I think it's fabulous husband is getting steamed about this also - about flamin' time. Although husband would rather believe there is no disorder, I can see that his devotion to his son doing no wrong has really been stung by this injustice.

    And for this to happen so soon after you met with them and they were shown to NOT have followed through - you would think the school wold be extra careful to get things right.

    I would copy what you've told us here (removing the CD side-issues) and put it into whatever you have that passes for a diary of difficult child's history, records or whatever. You need to have accurate notes to refer back to at a later stage, os if it ever becomes necessary to clear difficult child's record you can say, "On 14 September 2007 difficult child was sent out of the room for no valid reason, AFTER it had been made very clear that being sent out so often is damaging to his learning. difficult child's version of events is as follows [out it in here], with a witness who was never questioned by the school and who verifies his story. The school claimed this [put in their version in detail] which is simply not true.
    We had a number of agreements in place as part of his IEP - these have been repeatedly ignored, to the detriment of difficult child's learning and welfare."
    And so on.

    Bureaucracies function on paper warfare. You need your weapons always at the ready - good records and notes of your own are your best weapons and the best thing for difficult child's future.

    Have your notes ready when you go in on Monday. You don't have to hand them anything, but if you choose to hand them a copy of the version of events according to difficult child as backed by the other student, go ahead. I wouldn't, though. She might find herself victimised by staff and because she is not your child, you would find it much harder to support her.

    I do think it's good though - this also shows that difficult child has a friend who is still prepared to support him in the face of teacher wrath. he is capable of making and keeping friends, who clearly trust him this far, at least. She sounds like a decent person.

    Definitely warrior armour time.

    Marg
     
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