difficult child Threw Dad's Cellphone Down Garbage Disposal

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
I actually right now have the best insurance money cant buy...combo Medicare/medicaid. I am so thankful for it. I have lived without insurance and it was incredibly tough. My SO is uninsured because his job doesnt offer it and we cant afford it privately.
 

WSM

New Member
husband knows better, truthfully. When he was fighting for custody after his ex's problems had difficult child removed from her 6 times and put into foster care three times, he was unable to prove she was an unfit parent. HIIPA prevents the release of medical records. SHe'd been baker acted 26 times at the time of the custody fight, and he was unable to prove any of them.

husband KNOWS better.

However, the three felonies are going to be on his record FOREVER. I pull NCIC records every day and even if they are expunged, it says the crime, the conviction, and then 'expunged'. So what good is expungement?

What makes the family-killing pictures alarming to me is the fact that he has actually stabbed and slashed things (not to mention all the other destruction).

Not only that, but the picture was found two weeks before he told CPS that I had jumped on his back three times. Here he is, thinking and drawing pictures about killing his sister 1) my stabbing her and/or 2) by jumping on her. And then he 'projects' his fantansies onto me doing it to him, (dealing with them so ensure he's the victim--because he LOVES to be the victim in life, he loves people to feel sorry for him) and acts out the stabbing on his window screen, bean bag chair, and several times his mattress.

Isn't he trying to channel his unacceptable impulses into acceptable vehicles.

That's how I see it.

But NOBODY ELSE THINKS IT"S A BIG DEAL.
 

AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
WSM... You're right about "nobody else thinks it's a big deal"... It is extremely hard to get help for a violent child without them doing something to get into the system, and then it's not necessarily the help they need.

Your #1 priority should be to protect yourself, then your kids. If husband can't or won't get with the program, you should call a DV shelter. CPS will only do so much and usually nothing if the child is the problem. The courts are useless. Can you let the local PD know that they should respond to your calls ASAP? That might help, if you let him know you are serious. I'm not holding my breath. But what you can do is cover yourself.

husband needs to accept that difficult child is a problem and is menacing. Can you get him with you to a counselor? I don't know that it will help but it is worth a try.
 

WSM

New Member
It is extremely hard to get help for a violent child without them doing something to get into the system ... you should call a DV shelter. CPS will only do so much and usually nothing if the child is the problem. The courts are useless.

A DV shelter is a good idea to ask for advice.

I'm also going to take the list and the picture to our marital counselor (one of the ones who said it's not necessarily a big deal, children often have violent fantasies and this is a safe way of releasing it, blah, blah).

It's not just the picture and the list, it's also what's written on the picture:

It starts on the far left side of the page with dad hanging upside down, his arms flung out. There's an arrow pointing to him: "Dad not boss". Then there's me, with a scowling face and an arm raised like a shaking finger (I do scowl, I don't fingershake). An arrow identifies me by name. Then there's a drawing of daughter floating head level with husband's feet, my head, and the top of difficult child's neck. There's an arrow pointing to her with her name. Her face is scrunched up and she has a very dark scowl (ie, eyebrows drawn in a dark "V" over close set eyes). daughter almost NEVER gets angry. Upset, sad, worried, yes, but almost never angry.

Next in the row is difficult child. He's as tall as me (without his head) and taller than upside down dad. difficult child has drawn himself without a head, at the top of his neck is a cloud of smoke/blood, and his head is falling off to the right. difficult child is standing squarely on two feet with his arms straight down, spread out slightly from his sides. In each fist he has a large jagged edged knife with the serrated edge facing up. His arms are thicker than his legs and go down to his knees. One is pointing at the scowling, floating daughter; this one has an arrow pointing to it with the word 'knife'. Right over the cloud and his neck is the word 'explosion' and an arrow pointing down to the black swirl of blood/smoke.

His head is very small, and falling downward but still above his shoulders, it's not attached at all, and it's got an open face smile (altho it might be a scream). He is NOT scowling. Dad has a straight line for eyes (one line accross representing eyes and eyebrows), daughter and I have dots with scowling "V" eyebrows, but he has X X for eyes. Half of his neck is attached to the falling head and an arrow is pointing to it that says: "me dying from"
Then there's another arrow below that pointing to the head, and the words: "my head falloff".

Next is another picture of a female wearing a dress. The dress is a combination of the dress I am wearing in my picture but has buttons like daughter is wearing i hers. The female is small like daughter but has my hair (daughter straight, mine curly). This figure is the only one without hands, the sleeves end. And the head is completely severed and abount an inch on the paper away from the body. The head and the body both have a part of the neck attached. The head has an "O" for a mouth and "XX" eyes. There's a pool of blood between the body and the head.

Over her body is a series of statements with bullets. From top to bottom they read:

"going to mommy's house"
"telling people no"
"being boss not kid"
"watching tv alone"
"playing with others not brothers"
"having friends not brothers" (the 'not brothers' part is one phrase shared on two lines.
"jumping on <sister's name>"
"her dead"

With an arrow going from her dead to the head of the female lying on the ground.

When my husband first saw it, he said, "That's scary". I assumed he meant he saw a threat to us and that's why it was scary. Now I'm not so sure. I wonder if he meant it was scary because difficult child's head was exploding and difficult child was in danger.

It's hard to talk to him about the picture. Three professionals have dismissed it (with-o seeing it), so he thinks I'm over reacting when I bring it up.
 

WSM

New Member
It is extremely hard to get help for a violent child without them doing something to get into the system.

You are so right.

It's more than extremely hard to get help for a violent child--particularly when he's timid and bright and cries easily and weeps that all he wants is more attention from his dad and for everyone to stop treating him so badly.

He took weapons to school 4 times, and nothing happened except dad was inconvenienced with court dates and parenting classes.
 

graceupongrace

New Member
Wow! The picture is disturbing both as it pertains to threats and to how difficult child must be feeling. But with his history, it doesn't seem like something to be taken lightly.

What kind of weapon did he take to school? I'm surprised nothing happened -- our schools have a strict "zero tolerance" policy on that.

I would like to shake people on your behalf and say, "Please take this seriously!!!"
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Well, I'm a noboby, but I totally disagree with anyone who says "this is normal." There are plenty of kids who want attention from their dads, and how many express it THAT way? I've raised five kids and NEVER EVER have they slashed any pictures with knives or threatened us EVER. This child sounds like one of the most disturbed kids I've ever read about here. He sounds like he has some serious psychopathic behavior and I'd be terrified to live with him if this were me.

I worked at a home for DV. Not sure they'll do anything about a child, but SOMEBODY has to call the proper authorities to have him taken out of the home. in my opinion this kid is a real danger to everyone he lives with. Does he like fire? Who's to say he won't really lose it and set the house on fire? I ask that because we had a psychopathic foster child, and he used to threaten my kids with that, and, trust me, I think he may have done it. My other kids were so scared of him, they never ever tattled on him. Not until we found out what he was doing and he left. I will not be surprised if I see his face on the news one day for killing somebody. He already killed two dogs and who knows what else. His every day persona to adults was that of a very timid, insecure and rather mentally slow child (he was NOT slow, but nobody believed me). He acted like an angel to all adults, including us so we didn't know. He was very charming to everyone but his siblings, whom he severely terrorized and abused.
Because I lived with a dangerous child, I freak out when I hear about a kid who has these fantasies. I would not be one bit surprised if he HAS sexually abused SD and scared her into silence, like most predators. Even if he hasn't, wow...I would force husband to put him in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or leave. I would be too afraid of him to stay--and of what he could do to all of the family.

This is one sick cookie. I don't know how ANYONE can say otherwise :anxious:.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do!
 

WSM

New Member
What kind of weapon did he take to school? I'm surprised nothing happened -- our schools have a strict "zero tolerance" policy on that.

When he was 9 he took a broken airsoft bb gun.

the following year he took a largish jacknife, the kind you use for scouting.

The following year he took a paring knife, and a month later he took just a razor blade---the kind you scrape paint off a window with.

He was arrested for the bb gun. He was 9, the school resource officer put his hands behind his back and hand cuffed him and put him in the back of the squad car and drove away with him. We followed and his father bailed him out of our local community jail. Watching them put the handcuffs on little 'Opie Taylor' (remember the Andy Griffin show?), was one of the most sickening moments of my life. I cried and husband put his arms around me.

The judge foundhim guilty and sentenced him to 40 hours community service and a diversion program. The diversion program was so inaapropriate, that's where he learned about 'huffing'. We had to do the community service program ourselves since he was too little. They let him drop out of both because he was too little.

We have zero tolerance too and mandatory expulsion into a county expulsion program, but the principal just gave him 10 days suspension.

Next year I wasn't there when they arrested him. He was taken downtown and husband went and got him abt 11 pm. They were very nice to him at juvvy, the ladies kept him near the desk and kept up his spirits. The judge found him guilty, more community service for dad, and dad had to go to a parenting program for 12 weeks but they let dad off early for some reason. Again the school principal (the same one) gave him 10 days suspension and kept the news out of the newspapers. It was the end of the year, and when difficult child walked into summer camp another kid said something about him getting arrested. difficult child was utterly indignant, it was supposed to be kept a secret, nobody was supposed to know, it was nobody's business.

difficult child admitted the first one, denied the second, said he had no idea how it got into his backpack. He said he was set up.

The third time, he was arrested, taken downtown and husband didn't get him until 4 am the morning. When we went to court he was given the wrong judge. So it was continued, the new judge died before he could hear the case. It was never reassigned. We never heard about it again. The principal suspended him for 10 days, ignoring the mandatory suspension regulation again. The state attorney general wrote a letter to him which was read to him by his probation officer stating if he ever broke the law again it was mandatory detention in juvvy. The probation officer explained about rape and beatings there and told difficult child 'you won't last one night, they can't watch you all the time'.

A month later difficult child took a razor blade to school. The first thing he said when it was found on him was: Oh no not again. And then he swore it was planted on him and 'someone' was trying to get him out of the house. And that's when he started with his story that the night before I had pushed him to the ground and jumped on his back 3 times, then picked him up by the hair off his feet.

Instead of calling the police, the principal called CPS. They took him to a forensic child abuse expert who immediately knew he had not been abused and asked about his psychiatric history. CPS and the school were sure he was abused. The school didn't believe the expert, nor did the CPS lady who yelled at husband for a couple hours and told him that if husband didn't leave the house with the children, or force me and my kids out of the house, she was going to put both difficult child and little sister in foster care this minute. difficult child watched ever moment of this. husband talked her down, but she made husband promise that difficult child would pretty much rule the house.

That night when I got home from work, difficult child flashed me the most triumpant and evil smile I'd ever seen. I didn't even know there'd been a problem. Then husband filled me in. (this was Feb 14, 2008).

The next 4 months were hell. The CPS lady who KNEW she had no case because of his extensive file and the expert said there was no abuse, kept in close contact with difficult child and would pass on all his requests to husband. difficult child wants to join this after school program--husband had to do it or she threatened to take both kids into foster care. And she even insisted that since husband could afford afterschool care for both daughter then 7 and difficult child then 11, that daughter could come home after school and stay alone, it was too dangerous for difficult child to be alone at home.

We were afraid the whole time because every complaint he had went to her and she would call husband and scream and threaten him. difficult child was NEVER NEVER NEVER left alone with me. CPS lady's rule. So he had to stand within 3 feet of husband for 4 months. husband was furious and wouldn't talk to him. He'd read the paper and difficult child would have to stand in front of him so husband could make sure he wasn't being abused. It was massively embarassing and inconvenient for husband (sometimes he had to take difficult child to work) and he made sure difficult child hated every moment of being watched.

After 4 months CPS lady made this huge push to wring confessions out of us and did a real bad interrogation (I am believe it or not a professional interrogator). She was clumsy and stupid and got twisted up in so many lies that she was laughable. And the whole time we KNEW she had no case, we KNEW it had been closed. The thing is, if he had been abusive parents, difficult child would have gotten his butt beat good and steady for all he put us through. And the kicker of it all? At the end of the final 'interview' with us she actually told husband that it was all right and legal for him to spank difficult child (something we don't do). I am not making this up.

At the same time we were dealing with nasty CPS lady we had an awesome probation officer. She knew a troublemaker when she saw one and it was her opinion was since he didn't act out much at school (except for the weapons) but acted out at home he was in control of it. She visited the house every other week for about 6 weeks and each time we had a list of problems he'd caused. The second time she suggested a Residential Treatment Center (RTC), the third time she filled out the paperwork and said if her supervisor approved it and she would, he'd go for 4 to 6 months.

And then we didn't hear from her again. Her phone was turned off. It seems she got a job somewhere else and all her cases were abandoned. Her supervisor just summarily closed them all without seeing any of the kids.

And now we are where we are.

Once about 4 months after the wicked CPS lady left our lives, I asked difficult child about that incident. I forget how it came up but I said, "You were pretty sure you were going be in charge of this family, didn't you. You thought that lady was going to make Daddy and me do everything you wanted, right?"

He looked at me and nodded very unhappily. I said, "Well, what do you suppose went wrong. Why didn't it work out the way you wanted?"

He looked very very sad and broke eye contact and said sadly. "I just don't know what went wrong."

"It's because you lied. People aren't as stupid as you think. It can be figured out. And you've just made life harder for yourself because if someone ever does mistreat you, you won't be believed, you'll be like the boy who cried wolf."

I don't often see honest emotion in difficult child, but when he looked down and said so sadly that he didn't know what went wrong with his plan, he was honestly perplexed and bewildered.
 

graceupongrace

New Member
I am so sorry for all you have been going through -- especially for misguided CPS lady and others who attempt to blame you when you're living in the midst of a nightmare. I don't know how anyone can act like this is "normal." How would they cope with living in this situation?! Our kids need to be protected, but sometimes parents (and step-parents) need protection too.

I wish I had a solution, but I don't -- just many hugs and prayers.
 

Alttlgabby

New Member
I would get him off the Lexapro pronto.
QUOTE]


I agree. Either that or make sure he is also on a mood stabilizer. My daughter was on Lexapro for over a year and she just kept getting worse. She would scream and cry and follow me around the house asking the same question over and over. Then she voiced that if she had a knife, she would cut/kill herself. I had heard the suicide threats before, but this time I had it with the threats. Took her to the ER and they immediately admitted her. She was in the psychiatric hospital for a week and was a totally different person after she came home. So far, so good.. and that was last September. by the way.. the doctor said that the Lexapro by itself was only making her worse.
 

Alttlgabby

New Member
It's hard to talk to him about the picture. Three professionals have dismissed it (with-o seeing it), so he thinks I'm over reacting when I bring it up.


WOW!!!! I'm not even a professional and I think that those pictures MEAN something about the way this child feels, and it represents nothing good! Our MFT has the girls do picture therapy once in awhile, and EVERYTHING in their pictures represent SOMETHING! I definately would take them to your counselor and have him/her look them over. This child needs some serious help, and NOW! The way he is acting and thinking of these things is not healthy.
 

DaisyFace

Love me...Love me not
Regarding the pictures--

There is such controversy about the validity of testing and analyzing someone's drawings. I think it's hard to determine how much weight to give to such a thing.

It's the same as music--sometimes I like to listen to very "dark" sounding music (eg Nine Inch Nails, Sisters of Mercy, etc)....I just like it. Does it mean that I agree with all of the lyrics, or the views of the band...? No.

He drew it--but it is hard to say what his motivation might have been at the time. Was he trying to get attention? Push your buttons? Be grossly innappropriate and shocking?...or was he seriously doodling a plan or a map of his inner emotions? Hard to tell.

--DaisyF
 

WSM

New Member
He drew the picture for his own amusement, and hid it. My son 14 found it when he was moving furniture to mop floors.

My husband found another one about a year earlier, but without knifes, he didn't want to show me and just described people looking angry. It disappeared.

This happened before he went on lexapro. He's only been on lexapro about 3 and a half weeks.

What's troubling about his picture is it was drawn by a child who slashed his bean bag chair, his window screen, his mattress (twice) and who took knives to school even after he was arrested for it twice. He's using knives on inanimate objects--sporadically. Not even arrest, jail, court detered him from taking knives to school.

I find it troubling. :sick:
 

TerryJ2

Well-Known Member
I agree with-MWM about your husband.

In regard to this:

husband just informed me that he doesn't want difficult child on medicaid on 'those programs' because they might jeopardize his future. You know--the stigma of them.

I would respond, "with-o this program, there IS NO future for difficult child."

Plus, no one will know if you don't tell. You can send him to school with-a note that says he simply had a dr appointment. Big hairy deal.

Gosh, I'm sorry. I just don't know how your husband can be in such denial after all they're been through.
Sigh.
 

recovering doormat

Lapsed CDer
this child is savvy enough to manipulate the adults around him, particularly adults in the mental health and helping professions, many of whom I've noticed are young, fresh out of school, not married, no kids, and certainly no difficult child's at home. And I'm sure they are under pressure to make sure no kids are harmed by abusive parents, so they tend to side with the kids, even if the kids are obviously lying.

That, and the pictures, really scare me.

In my experience, CPS really comes down hard on parents if a difficult child harms other kids in the family: they won't hesitate to have you arrested if your son does something threatening towards his sister or to your kids, or a neighbor's kid. I would think you could get CPS to step in if you tell them that you are scared to death for your stepdaughter.

Or have you done that already and been ignored? I would go to the caseworker's superior and complain. THey hate that.

Whatever you choose to do, remember it's safety first, regardless of what husband thinks. He is in deep denial and the courts have been no help. You may have to give an ultimatum and follow up on it.

Is there a relative on husband's side who could step in and take your step daughter out of the house if husband won't consider Residential Treatment Center (RTC) for his son?

Good luck, I will keep you in my prayers.
 
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