Estherfromjerusalem
Well-Known Member
The reason for the mispronunciation of jewelry is because in British English it is spelled "jewellery" and pronounced accordingly.
Love, Esther
Love, Esther
English buffs - need help with commas
- Thread starter slsh
- Start date
slsh: Jumping in late here! It sounds like you do medical transcription? Here's a link to a sample of the third edition of AHDI Book of Style - good resource, as you may already know. See the section regarding punctuation; specifically, commas - page 115.
https://web.archive.org/web/2010112...org/Portals/0/downloads/BOS3SampleChapter.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/2010112...org/Portals/0/downloads/BOS3SampleChapter.pdf
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Marguerite
Active Member
On mispronunciation -
Homer: It's pronounced 'nuke-you-lar'!
The rules concerning commas are in a current state of flux. In other words - we are moving to a state from more commas to fewer commas. It's perhaps a consequence of our increasingly computerised and streamlined lifestyles.
The first commas and punctuation in general to go were those used in addresses. This was due to the use of computer scanners in mail sorting. Any punctuation could scramble the machines and lead to letters being rejected for the slower and more error-prone hand sorting.
Thus an address that formerly read as "THE WILSON'S, 14 AMBERLEY ST., MILSON'S POINT" became THE WILSON FAMILY 14 AMBERLEY ST MILSONS POINT
I was still at school when abbreviations which finished with the last letter of the word, lost the full stop. words like "street" abbreviated to "st" could be the second letter of the word, but also because they COULD have the last letter, they lost the full stop. Same with "ave".
From there, other punctuation changes have crept in. Place names lost punctuation. Then came dates. No more should people write a date as "February 24th, 2008". We lose the "-th" first, then (sorry, folks) the comma. So the date becomes "February 24 2008". The main concern is to avoid ambiguity but lose what is not needed.
Editing styles - you can get books on the subject. OK, I should have written that more carefully, but I'm not fussing about proper editing styles right now. Do as I say, not as I do. If you really want a fast lesson, then get your hands on a book on editing styles.
Here there could be cultural differences, although there should be fewer cultural differences in this modern age of INternet. However, we do still have variable spelling - UK/Australian English has different spelling to US English so it is also possible that our punctuation is more streamlined than yours. In which case - view this missive form me as a message from your future.
I don't have a BA but I am a writer and also an editor. Most of the time I work as a proofreader but sometimes I am needed to help tidy up text. There are some strict rules but as a writer, I also know when to choose to break the rules. Such as never starting a sentence with a preposition - sometimes theatrically it is necessary. Splitting infinitives is something we do on many occasions, often. As with tortology, which I just demonstrated in the previous sentence.
We could get totally hidebound with rules and find outselves articstically retricted into the bargain.
Some useful rules still in existence - use commas after each multiple adjective except the final one. So you could buy a delicious, pink, large, strawberry ice cream. "Ice cream" here is a two word complex which functions as a single noun for this purpose. However you shouldn't use commas after or before a conjunction. As a rule. So if you join two sentences and choose to write effectively, you shouldn't need to have a comma anywhere near the "and". I put one in after "effectively" because I chose to, I felt it needed the comma to avoid ambiguity and confusion.
Part of the need to remove commas is a need to streamline text and make it easier to read. However, we still need commas as a form of mental "taking a breath", to let us know when to pause and know when to change mental inflection.
Just remember that careful use of punctuation can totally change the meaning.
"What is this thing called love?" can also be written as "What is this thing called, love?"
What a difference a comma can make...
Go find yourself a styles book in the writing section of your local library. In the meantime, if in doubt - ditch the comma. Streamline.
Marg
Homer: It's pronounced 'nuke-you-lar'!
The rules concerning commas are in a current state of flux. In other words - we are moving to a state from more commas to fewer commas. It's perhaps a consequence of our increasingly computerised and streamlined lifestyles.
The first commas and punctuation in general to go were those used in addresses. This was due to the use of computer scanners in mail sorting. Any punctuation could scramble the machines and lead to letters being rejected for the slower and more error-prone hand sorting.
Thus an address that formerly read as "THE WILSON'S, 14 AMBERLEY ST., MILSON'S POINT" became THE WILSON FAMILY 14 AMBERLEY ST MILSONS POINT
I was still at school when abbreviations which finished with the last letter of the word, lost the full stop. words like "street" abbreviated to "st" could be the second letter of the word, but also because they COULD have the last letter, they lost the full stop. Same with "ave".
From there, other punctuation changes have crept in. Place names lost punctuation. Then came dates. No more should people write a date as "February 24th, 2008". We lose the "-th" first, then (sorry, folks) the comma. So the date becomes "February 24 2008". The main concern is to avoid ambiguity but lose what is not needed.
Editing styles - you can get books on the subject. OK, I should have written that more carefully, but I'm not fussing about proper editing styles right now. Do as I say, not as I do. If you really want a fast lesson, then get your hands on a book on editing styles.
Here there could be cultural differences, although there should be fewer cultural differences in this modern age of INternet. However, we do still have variable spelling - UK/Australian English has different spelling to US English so it is also possible that our punctuation is more streamlined than yours. In which case - view this missive form me as a message from your future.
I don't have a BA but I am a writer and also an editor. Most of the time I work as a proofreader but sometimes I am needed to help tidy up text. There are some strict rules but as a writer, I also know when to choose to break the rules. Such as never starting a sentence with a preposition - sometimes theatrically it is necessary. Splitting infinitives is something we do on many occasions, often. As with tortology, which I just demonstrated in the previous sentence.
We could get totally hidebound with rules and find outselves articstically retricted into the bargain.
Some useful rules still in existence - use commas after each multiple adjective except the final one. So you could buy a delicious, pink, large, strawberry ice cream. "Ice cream" here is a two word complex which functions as a single noun for this purpose. However you shouldn't use commas after or before a conjunction. As a rule. So if you join two sentences and choose to write effectively, you shouldn't need to have a comma anywhere near the "and". I put one in after "effectively" because I chose to, I felt it needed the comma to avoid ambiguity and confusion.
Part of the need to remove commas is a need to streamline text and make it easier to read. However, we still need commas as a form of mental "taking a breath", to let us know when to pause and know when to change mental inflection.
Just remember that careful use of punctuation can totally change the meaning.
"What is this thing called love?" can also be written as "What is this thing called, love?"
What a difference a comma can make...
Go find yourself a styles book in the writing section of your local library. In the meantime, if in doubt - ditch the comma. Streamline.
Marg
Thanks, Maril. I have BOS 2, but I like the sample of 3... am going to have to get that. Nicer set up I think.
By the end of the day, I was *hating* commas, LOL. I think the only time I really goofed on the audit was when there was an "and" or "but" and two clauses that weren't independent (you know those people who say and....and....and....and.... a gazillion times and you end up with- a sentence half the page long - I put in commas just to break it up a bit), but I'm so Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) about my work that it just totally blew my concentration today. I know part of the problem is I've got one dr who dictates "comma" after every other word.
What I decided on is that in a sentence like "Testing on 01/02/2000 showed fluffy cats", there would be no comma because of how the date is transcribed per client's wishes. If client wanted it done the way it's supposed to be done, it would be "Testing on January 2, 2000, showed fluffy cats". I did decide, unilaterally since I can't get anyone in quality to agree (grrrrr), is if the sentence is "On 01/02/2000, fluffy cats were 3.27", I'm putting the comma in because there's a natural pause after the date when you're speaking.
Marg - we're still to use commas, though I hope the future is comma-less. Written out dates have commas if the year is in there, as do addresses. (ie, I love Chicago, Illinois, in the summertime.) My rule of thumb, pre-audit, was to ensure the clarity of the report. Post-audit, I'm just a mess.
We'll see what the audit looks like next month. Thanks for all the input!!
By the end of the day, I was *hating* commas, LOL. I think the only time I really goofed on the audit was when there was an "and" or "but" and two clauses that weren't independent (you know those people who say and....and....and....and.... a gazillion times and you end up with- a sentence half the page long - I put in commas just to break it up a bit), but I'm so Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) about my work that it just totally blew my concentration today. I know part of the problem is I've got one dr who dictates "comma" after every other word.
What I decided on is that in a sentence like "Testing on 01/02/2000 showed fluffy cats", there would be no comma because of how the date is transcribed per client's wishes. If client wanted it done the way it's supposed to be done, it would be "Testing on January 2, 2000, showed fluffy cats". I did decide, unilaterally since I can't get anyone in quality to agree (grrrrr), is if the sentence is "On 01/02/2000, fluffy cats were 3.27", I'm putting the comma in because there's a natural pause after the date when you're speaking.
Marg - we're still to use commas, though I hope the future is comma-less. Written out dates have commas if the year is in there, as do addresses. (ie, I love Chicago, Illinois, in the summertime.) My rule of thumb, pre-audit, was to ensure the clarity of the report. Post-audit, I'm just a mess.
We'll see what the audit looks like next month. Thanks for all the input!!
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Marg's Man
Member
'Nother problem - when did they do the test. depends on where. Here in Australia or most of the rest of the world it was done on 1 February 2000. In the US it was done on 2 January 2000.
Talk about confusing - I sometimes get invoices from the Australian branch of a US company and the date formats can be mixed on the same page! I kid you not. Sometimes it's obvious 7/2/10 (at the moment) CAN'T be July 2 but when you look at an old file you cannot tell. I got cranky with them and told them either do the right way or the American way but don't mix them up.
Marg's Man
PS I'm joking about right and wrong so don't flame me
Marguerite
Active Member
Maybe in the US, but not here in Australia any more. I learned it the way you describe, putting in the comma before the year. But it began to be the custom to drop even that comma in Australia from about 25 years ago. I was publishing a journal at the time and there were a couple of professional editors working intensely with me on it, they taught me a great deal. You can bet I argued with them about it, then they convinced me. The styles books are ones I am often referred to now.
And yes, I do think this is a case of different rules in different countries.
Every so often some group or other will get together and determine what the rules are to be. Such as the international spelling of "sulfur" - you Yanks got your way.
But we won with aluminIum!
(see IUPAC)
Marg
AnnieO
Shooting from the Hip
AAAAUUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!
LOL...
You did? I missed that one. I've been spelling it "aluminum" since I can remember...
Although if we are talking about the kitchen item used to wrap food (and a lot of other things as well), it's "tin foil"... Thanks Grandma!
The one I had trouble with the other day was "plecostomus" - the catfish in my aquarium that eats algae. Actually looked it up. Don't tell!
Well, just as we never made it to metric, I doubt we'll ever make it to the "military" style of dates like the rest of the world. Can you imagine the confusion???? Egads. It would shut us down completely.
I'm curious, Marg - how would you spell sulfur? Sulphur??
LOL, Step - I wasn't going to point out that we're spelling it aluminum.... checked the box of tin foil just to be sure.
I'm curious, Marg - how would you spell sulfur? Sulphur??
LOL, Step - I wasn't going to point out that we're spelling it aluminum.... checked the box of tin foil just to be sure.
slsh: You are welcome.
Considering hourly production requirements, I find it challenging and sometimes frustrating to transcribe dictation that contains many errors; I imagine you might understand.
As far as audits go, I hope you have an opportunity to respond if you disagree with the results.
Good luck!
Considering hourly production requirements, I find it challenging and sometimes frustrating to transcribe dictation that contains many errors; I imagine you might understand.
As far as audits go, I hope you have an opportunity to respond if you disagree with the results.
Good luck!
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