Feel Defeated already

[susiestar]

Kjs, sending lots of hugs and support.

I can remember when all Wiz said to me was that he hated me. My husband would do almost anything to avoid conflict with him, even believing some of his wilder tales about me. husband was afraid to be the "heavy" and impose rules of any kind. If I wrote the rules down clearly WITH the consequences, husband would follow them after a while.

So Wiz decided that he hated me because I would not let him call me a female dog, would not let him hit anyone, insisted that homework be done, and also be checked, and insisted that he do minimal chores and not play/watch anything violent.

It was about the most awful time in my life. I kept reminding myself I am not here to be my children's friend, I am here to be their mother. Friends they will have a LOT of, Moms are limited to just ME.

It is totally true that your difficult child is so hard on you because he KNOWS you will ALWAYS be there for him. difficult child is nicer to dad because a.) Dad lets him do whatever he wants and b.) difficult child is probably pretty sure if he is mean to Dad, then Dad will treat him the way he treats you, or worse. Kids know these things.

In time difficult child will let you see that he loves you. It may takes years, but it will happen IF you continue to be a parent to him. My mother in law decided to be the "cool mom" when husband and his sister were out of high school. She divorced father in law and started partying. She would go out with sister in law (husband wouldn't have anything to do with her while she behaved like that) to the bars and buy the drinks, encourage sister in law to treat her like a friend, not like a mom.

To this day husband and his sister love her, but have little respect for her. husband only sees her every couple of years (her call), but it is clear that he has little respect for her because the way she has tried so hard to NOT be his mom, but to be a "friend".

Concentrate on getting healthier, setting healthy limits, and loving yourself as much as you love your son. These limits will anger difficult child a lot of the time. BUT he will learn from them and in time will come to really see that you are doing what is best for him and the family. He will also come to see that husband is out of line. Right now difficult child is dazzled by the permissiveness of husband. But the shiny layer will come off and difficult child will realize that what is just under the surface is not only not shiny and fun, but is ugly and uncaring.

I know how hard it is to work in the evenings and miss that time with your child. been there done that with several jobs. It stinks. Keep reminding yourself you are doing the best you can with what you have. In time you will find a day shift job or you will find ways to cope with the evening shift better.

Either way, your difficult child is NOT STUPID and he WILL see that your love is unwavering and you are willing to do the hard stuff if it is best for him in the long run.

Never forget that we are here for you!!!

 

[Ropefree]

KJS; I hear you. I am not the type who wants to be the leader. I am not the type who wants to be the displinarian. I am not the type who wants to lord over other people. However like all those who came befor me I took on the job of reproduction and now I, like you, are in charge of raising from childhood into maturity and that involves leadership, disipline,strict supervision, and as a matter of fact it is a big job.
The fuss you recieved when you laid down the rules is reactive emotion. The objection that your son offered "why do things have to change?" sadly laments the
reguers of growing up. Disrespect will cost an adult important relationships and potentially ruin their life. As a parent we do not tolerate disrespectful language and behavior as our job is to teach our young how to go through life respectful of themselves and others in all situations. Why? Because it ruins our life right now!
In fact it ruins his life and he is just feeling that effect.
All living situations have rules. Chores are essentially each persons obligation to themselves and those with whom they live. In your house you are teaching all your children how to organise for health and to create a pleasant environment. That way when they leave your tutalage they are armed to live in this world with the diseases and pests that are more than happy to take over with the smallest chinck in the hygiene of people. Ants,cockroaches,rodents and germs to name a few.
Phone ediquete is not a small issue. #1)hang up on your mother and you loose the use of the cell phone and that means loosing any hope of going anywhere besides school and home. Plus not having a cell phone does not obsolve a child/teen from calliin home either. It futhers the habits of ediquette by requiring a child/teen to use other phones which includes asking for the use of a phone and if the child/teen fails to ask in a respectful manner they will suffer those consequences 'out in the field of life'. #2) a possitive phone manner will one day earn you money. Any contact you have on the phone with a potential employer will ether affirm your value to them, or it will jepordize your employment with them. #3) friendships and dating center on the phone and the one time it really will matter having that possitive phone manner habit will make or break the oppertunity.
Having limits and respecting limits is a life skill. It is imcumbant on parents to acclimate our youth to self regulation.
The falicy of the arguement that the parent started 'the fight'. Failure to abid by the rules is the problem. 'The fight' stops when the rules and relationships are respected.
Learning to neigotiate with others is the central lesson of adulthood. When our youth are acting out as teens we are watching them regress to the childish meathods that they had plyed successfully in the past if not to get what they wanted then to act out thier distress using behavior and not the language that they struggle to wield appropriately when upset. As parents of teens we have a bit of work to help our youths to forge the conversations and to participate meaningfully and to THINK AHEAD.
This change in the relationship is about status. As a parent you are establishing the boundaries that distinquish your expectations and those are not, as a matter of fact neigotiable. Just like in relationships that our youths will incounter outside the home family where there are non-negotiable boundaries others AND THEY THEMSELVES will hold. That is the 'new' job for you.
When I explain it for my son I start with me and then I describe how these rules play through life.
I teach you to stay home and focus on your business your respocibilities and when you leave my home there will be times when you will do this yourself. When you are in college, or working sometimes you will stay home to clean your toilet, wash your dishes, vacuum and take a time out,or do your work studying or filling out a job application or resume. Here it means you are grounded. Later it is just one useful way of spending time in your life as an adult.
ect..
I get how I think you are feeling about it is no use and you feel defeated. And the energy to turn this around will arise out of reviewing how what had been going on
"isn't working"...not for YOU and not for the other members in your family.
Once you have it clear in your mind what works for you and you have it clear in your mind what is not YOUR problem...then your teen and what are his will also not be out of pocket expenditures for you he did not earn as a priviledge, and he will be at home and under control and not elsewhere giving mommy stress and potentially liability issues.
you can get this relation 'ship' turned around and all the riders pulling their weight on board. Setting down rules in writting was thoughtfull. the conselor who talked to me pointed out that for me to write down the rules was to much work. Stop working so hard. Let the teen do it. He is the one who needs to show you what the rules are and then he is the one who has to do the jobs without you asking him even once and then he is the one who has to stay respectfull or he is grounded, not priviledges and no say in the house. In fact the quality of the food i provide my kid is at jeapardy, as are his access to any 'things' that he does not put away.
and ah,no his room is not off limits to me. He lives in my house. While he does he repects my rules and my authority. And it is a good idea to pick up what those are and to ask first because it is likely going to be a very long time befor he is able to
live in his own place and have whatever rules he choses at that time. After me there will be roommates, and landlords and all of them are not going to be related and give a wit if he does or does not live in that location.
Good luck. you can do this. yes yes you can.

 

[donna723]

Kjs, you have gotten some really, REALLY good advice here.

In my opinion, your son is taking the path of least resistance, like any kid would. You want him to do school work ... his father apparently could care less ... so he sides with his father. You represent discipine, order and structure ... with his dad it's "do as you please". Your son is picking up the way he treats you from his father - a very bad example. And if it continues, he will treat other women in his life the same way that his father treats you - that's the role model he has had all his life and he knows no different. And you also don't know what his father may have told him about what is going on. Honey, your son doesn't 'hate' you! As some of the others have said, he sees change coming, and thats as frightening to him as it is to you.

It was very much the same in our family, only the problem wasn't with my son, it was with my daughter. He treated the two of them so differently. His tactics didn't work on our son - he resented him and practically ignored him, but he catered to our daughter, always sided with her to keep her on his side. He did everything he could to alienate her from me, almost like he was punishing me somehow (he blamed everything on me) by taking her away from me, and nothing ever hurt me as much as that did! He was the 'good time guy' - I was the one with all the responsibility. She saw him as 'powerful' because he would rage till his face turned purple - they were both afraid to cross him. And she saw me as 'weak'. And it wasn't long before she was speaking to me in that same disrespectful tone that he used and relating to me the same way as he did! And Lord only knows what lies he may have told her about me! If ever there was a kid who 'hated' her mother, it was her! She was one miserable girl, and very, very fragile emotionally.

It didn't happen overnight but once he was out of the house, once things settled down, she got a little better. When she went out on her own, when she was out from under his influence, she got A LOT better. And as age and maturity set in and as she started viewing things as an adult and not as a scared kid, her whole attitude changed! Now she sees him for exactly what he is! And now that she's very happily married herself to a wonderful guy, she can see how scr*wed up things really were at our house! Now she understands. And now, after all those years, I finally have my daughter back. And she never really 'hated' me, she was just scared and confused and very, very angry.

I see it all so much clearer now than when I was in the middle of it. And I know now that when she unloaded all her rage on me for all those years, it was because I was 'safer'. She was afraid of her father and very unsure of him - she could never do that with him (even though it was really HIM that had upset her). But she KNEW that she could vent it all out on me and she knew that, even if what she said had hurt me terribly, I would still love her, no matter what. And I did ... and I still do. Does any of this sound familiar?

 

[Kjs]

I don't know if I can live like this for years before he understands how much I love him.

When I told difficult child the rules the other day, I also wrote them down. For husband to see. I do not believe husband would read it, but it is written down.

ONE was...when you go to a friends house WE will tell you what time you will be picked up at.

Last night. He gets home from school at 3pm. Immediately goes on the computer to play his stupid game. At 5:30 I asked him if he had any other plans than to play computer games. He is snotty and yells at me about NOT having friends because he goes to this small school. I ask if he has homework..well, that was a mistake. I ask him to come out of the computer room and be with the family. I ask him if he wants to go work out at the gym, no. I ask him to show me how to play wii fit. No. Then he starts yelling at me. I calmly told him he is not to speak to me that way. I walked out, put on my shoes and told husband that I will NOT be disrespected, and I was going out for a drink. (I don't drink......yet) I drove down to the Lake and watched the waves on the ice. Went home about an hour later. Nobody home. husband comes in and I ask where difficult child is. At a friends. Homework? He is doing it there. I asked him at what time he is coming home. husband--don't know, didn't ask him. I told husband that it is NOT up to difficult child. It IS a school night, and the rules are that WE tell him what time he is to be picked up. I then went to bed.(worked the night before). I get up this morning and open difficult child's folder. One math paper done, one in another folder blank. I ask husband about the blank one. He has no idea. Said difficult child told him, showed him the paper that was complete. DAH...does he actually think difficult child will take the blank one out and show him? So, husband wakes him up and asks him. difficult child says it was a review sheet didn't need to be done. husband glares at me and goes to work.
I email the math teacher and questioned the homework. YES it DID need to be done.
So...do I mention it? Do I "start" the fight?
I asked difficult child if he would go to the gym and workout with me after school. He said he didn't want to but would. (he has put on a ton of weight). However he asks me to look at his throat, it is bright red. He wouldn't eat breakfast because his throat hurt.
I don't want to have him come home and sit at the computer. That is where he eats too. He needs exercise. What to do.

Well, I know it was our deal that husband would pay the bills, but they are still sitting there and over due. So, I must go take care of that now.
I did tell therapist the other day when difficult child went that although husband agreed to pay the bills, and it is what I want, I am afraid to show him how I do it. He cannot pay them all at once, and he cannot pay the entire amount on medical bills. It has to be spread out over the month or we would have no money to eat or get gas. If I try to show him the system I use, husband will yell and say "SEE you LOVE to do this". therapist agreed and said we will need to discuss this transition. So since husband hasn't attempted, or mentioned the bills--I must do it.

Sorry I am such a pain. I do read your posts, just that I don't have any advice. You are all so much wiser than me. If I don't post a reply it isn't that I am not thinking of you. I am. And you are all in my daily thoughts and prayers.

Kathy

 

[hearts and roses]

Kathy,

My nephew, who is now 27, has been in counseling off and on for a couple of years. He most recently admitted that he was addicted to barbituates and pain killers for the past 8 months. The way you describe your son reminds me very much of my nephew when he was in his teens. He was/is also a difficult child. My nephew can now FINALLY admit that he got too much freedom growing up, that his parents were never a united front and he used that to manipulate them any which way he could. He can now FINALLY admit that he played them all along .... IOW, he can finally admit his role in and in between their relationship, and how he can now finally take responsibility for his own actions. Granted, he's not out of the water yet, but he's working on it and that is what counts.

For the longest time, he harbored such strong resentments towards my sister and now he's finally working through that with his counselor and can see his father's role in the way in which things went down and how they were often very skewed in their parenting and never really on the same page....thus, leaving my nephew very confused and left to do what any normal teenager would do - manipulate and conquer!

And I worry about my difficult child, 19dd. She has such resentments and anger and sometimes apparent hatred for my H, her step dad. He has been a wonderful dad to her, he's filled in so many of the gaps left by her bio dad. He took on the role of parent and father since before we were married. When she was real little, she was in love with him, trusted him and allowed him into her heart. But when things started going south and as she moved into her middle teen years, all of that changed. Because H puts his foot down and tells her like it is, because he consistently tries to hold her responsible and accountable to him, us and the family, her hackles go up everytime he opens his mouth. Except for when she wants something, she basically is just mean to him, ignores him or, when she decides to answer his questions, she's very snotty about it, rude even. My biggest fear was that she would never remember how much of a positive role he played in her upbringing and that they would never have the close loving relationship I had hoped for. And I've had to accept that there is nothing I can do about it. H is heartbroken, but because she manages to anger him all the time, he can detach from those feelings. I know that he too mourns the loss of their closeness (it was right around 15). Our last counselor told us that perhaps one day she will be able to see him with new eyes and realize that he was the parent she never thought she had. It will probably take a few years, perhaps even a lifetime or until her own kids are teens, but that in the meantime, we had to just "keep on keeping on" (yes, her words!). We had to keep doing what we were doing, detach if we had to (which is never easy), but love her from an arm's length. Without allowing her to be rude and disrespectful, we were not to try and change her mind about us - she had to come to that on her own. Well, she's 19 and I have to say, I am still disheartened by her attitude towards H, easy child, me and the town we live in (she hates it). I have to remind myself that I made the right choices and did the best I could, loved her enough, and then let it go. It's not easy, Kathy.

I know it seems like it will take forever for your son to 'get it' and understand things...but what if you do nothing to change things and he has to wait until he is in his 30's to finally try and find out why he is the way he is? In the meantime, you will have a skewed relationship with him anyway. There is no telling for certain how he will turn out or if it will all go badly or better.

All you do know right now is how you feel and how you want to feel. And the hard part is working to get where you want to be. Sending you lots of strength and warrior mom and power! Just thought I'd share part of my personal experience to help you feel less alone in this struggle with your son and H.

 

[Star*]

Here's a tip on the homework.

Call your sons teacher. Tell her that you work 2 jobs and are gone a lot, but you and your husband do have email. Would she please help you by emailing your sons necessary assignments/homework to be completed each night so there is NO doubt and NO more lies about what is to be done. Also you and dad will sign each paper that he completes.

Then you and your husband need to stand with your son sitting down and together tell him very matter of factly that starting Monday you and Dad will know all of his assignments/homework that is to be completed every night. You will be getting ALL of his necessary assignments via email.

This makes the responsiblity of HOMEWORK the responsibility of your son. If it's not done? It's not your hubby's fault - it's the kids. It eliminates an argument and feelings that you are going to "start" something. You're not starting anything - you said to your son "We know what you have to do each night, no questions", Youre telling your husband - You know what? If he does his work on this email (print it out or ask teacher to CC your hubby's email) - he's doing what the teacher said he was to do, if he does not? He fails the class and repeats the 5th grade. That's on him and should not be a war between US. It also tells your hubby that there will be no more looks or yelling over homework - it's your sons responsibility.....

You could make it a rule, with consequence and reward......but in our house we said the Rule was do your work, the consequence was - repeat that grade, the reward was - and education. My Mother NEVER stressed over my homework.....I just knew - the reality of the situation was - what it was. Flunking....and the embarassment of repeating that grade because I goofed off. If he doesn't understand the work or it's too hard? Get him an after school or in-school tutor - he could do that instead of recess each DAY! (fun huh?) Or put him in an a self containted class via an IEP, or if he needs testing? Ask the school for Learning Disability (Learning Disability (LD)) testing. But if he gets it and is goofing off? His problem. Maybe his third go-round in his grade while his friends are going to graduate two years earlier than him would say something???

Any house rules need consequences and rewards....maybe you can work on that in therapy - and some maybe like 3 chores with rewards and consequences that your son could do - we always made one chore something that was very easy, something that he may have already been doing so that he could get at least one reward.

Consequences and rewards need to be short term too - our difficult child's don't get long term goals - that's why right now graduation 2 years behind his peers is NOT a problem - He can't see that picture - He can't even fathom failing his grade, BUT he can see staying after school every day to work on homework he did not do..the day before.....with a tutor.......who has a long crooked nose and a wart, and a broom. (okay she doesn't have a broom)

As far as taking him to the gym? Great idea if there is someone there that can work with him ONE on One....ask about someone that could make HIM the center of their world for 15 -30 minutes - or mentor him regarding something HE would like to do. I abhore basketball - hate it with a passion. My dad and sis? Excellent at it....but if they always said "Hey we're going to the gym to play basketball?" OMG I would have NEVER gone.....I loved swimming and found a stress outlet in that....love to swim.....loved gymnastics....Find out what your local YMCA has and get him interested in something - let him try it all out - maybe he'd like archery or karate, or BMX racing....not walking on a treadmill. Or in my case "hoops" ugh.

Hope this helps - I really think you are starting to get organized here and that is SO fantastic! Keep up the good work......

 

[Steely]

Hey kjs........

So I have read the other posts and they have all given great advice, so I will not repeat it. I want to affirm what everyone has said.

Given that - I want to give you some homework. YOU, not husband or difficult child, you.

A) I want you to see that counselor every single week and only talk about YOU. Talk about what it feels like to be you, and live and walk in your shoes. You deserve someone to just listen to you, to be understood, to affirm you and your reality.

B) I want you, just for one week, to completely disconnect from being difficult children parent. Just for one week, do not set limits, boundaries, or directives. Do not contact the school or teachers. The only way I want you to connect with your difficult child this ONE week is through casual conversation. Period.

It will be everything you can do, to make 'B' happen, I know. Everything in you will want to step in and take over, but do not allow that to happen. Take notes on every interaction you have with difficult child, and the impact it had on you or him. Try to treat this like a science experiment - just for this one week.

Turn the radio to his favorite station - watch his favorite show with him - play video games with him - take him to his favorite fast food place. Just BE. And just be with him. For one week. And document what happens.

Hugs and support,
Steely

 

[Ropefree]

Good job...with tracking down the facts from the teacher and saying what your surly mouthed youth does need to hear.
Next link all privileges to the rules: speak courteously, homework and chores before any computer time or outings or visits.
Put a lock on the computer room with a key. No homework no chores no privileges.
Tart with mother..grounded.
Oh oh...do bare in mind that all his needs are subject to your good humor. If you are not happy then nobody is happy.
Going out after saying what you did was perfict. Take care of you first.
Next establish the consequence for failing to do homework and going out.
Grounded until futher notice.
I also have a high grades for use of the computer rule. Not average, not passing,HIGH.
HOmework on the computer, fine, Supervise it. Pull the game controlers, disconnect the internet. any work that requires the computer use can be done supervised. and limited to the work..not anything else.
he will want his privileges. So have him show you for two weeks in a row that he can behave respectfully toward you and anyone else, that he can do his chores without complaint or reminders, that he can ask for permission befor leaving the house and do so after he has completed his homework.
After two weeks let him write down the house rules, his obligations, what he did to get himself grounded and when he has done all that have him list why what he did was wrong, who he hurts when he does that and what he can do today and in the future when the same situation arises.
After he does that then let him know what the limits are for each grade he earns for computer use. A= B= C= D=0 and negates all other grades times.
Let him know how many hours per week he may max use the computer.
Let him know how many hours per day max he may use the computer.
Let him know how many minutes per session he may play a game without stopping and doing something else.
Ask him how he will keep track.
Then have him write all that down in fact have him make a sign that he can put next to his computer so that he doesn't forget ever.

Break any rule and go back to grounded.
Any questions?