Has anyone seen Sicko yet?

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by hearts and roses, Jul 22, 2007.

  1. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    It took us a while, but we finally saw it last night. It was depressing in many ways, but as usual, Moore adds some dark humor to the film so you can sit through the really uncomfortable spots that make you squirm.

    It was illuminating and upsetting to see that even the smallest little countries have better health care than the richest nation in the world.

    I suggest every voting member of the USA see this movie. H and I almost want to move to France, the UK, Canada, even Cuba. I mean it's really astounding.
     
  2. judi

    judi Active Member

    Funny you should bring this up. In IL, all the nurses were mailed ads about this movie. I work a lot and haven't had time to see it - but know from my own experience, our health care system is in BIG trouble
     
  3. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I think that "the richest nation in the world" is more and more of a myth. Sure, we are well to do, and there are more middle class people here than in most other places. But the divide between the richest and the poorest is massive, and there are less and less in the middle. We are so calloused about the "have nots". It seems that many of us are inclined to take too much glee in the thought that there is someone not as good off as we are. This movie makes it clear that other than the very few very well to do, we are all one serious illness away from utter doom.

    I feel that the current trend of belittling anyone different than us only exacerbates the problem and is something that certain powerful groups do as "entertainment" or "Infotainment" in order to pit us against each other so we won't stand up for each other. Is it realistic for insurance, drug, and health companies to think that they can continue to increase their profits every year forever? When will we say that enough is enough?

    We're all people. I hope we can all contribute to finding a way to being more "inclusive" than thinking we "exclusive", because really, we ain't all that.
     
  4. everywoman

    everywoman Active Member

    " think that "the richest nation in the world" is more and more of a myth."

    So true. Just look at what the Euro has done to the American dollar!

    The belief that we are the beacon on the hill which should light the way for the rest of the world comes from our puritan ancestors: they believed they were building the new jerusalem and that this was the promised land. Unfortunately, the only meant for it to be that way for themselves---not everyone else. In many ways we haven't changed a lot. Most people still expect more of others than they do of themselves. If we could all just learn to weed our own gardens and not worry about everyone else's, we would be much better off!
     
  5. tinamarie1

    tinamarie1 Member

    I personally think that Mr. Moore has a HUGE political agenda in all that he does. My husband is a nurse and yes there are problems with our medical system. For instance, the drug companies...they send doctors on world wind trips based on how many prescriptions they write for particular drugs. They not only send the doctor, but their whole family. Drug reps visit where my sis works (an obgyn office) several times a week, and bring them food from the most expensive restaurants...for EVERYONE in the office, and she works in a large office, I would guess that food is a couple hundred dollars in some instances.
    The hospital in Florida where my dad frequents, very few of the nurses that work there speak fluent English. Many of them are difficult to understand. After further investigation, I found out that the hospitals in the U.S. pay women in places like the Phillapines to go to school and sign a contract to work in the U.S. for so many years, and they get paid about $10 less an hour than husband. Great for those women who were probably living in poverty where they are from, but husband couldn't find a job in Florida that pays what he was making in Louisiana.
    I won't see his movie, because I don't like him as a person...but I will agree that our system needs an overhaul.
     
  6. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    Hi Tina,

    Everything you posted about is actually addressed in the movie. It's not that Moore has a political agenda, per se, he's just bringing to light a lot of things that Americans do not know and should know so we can either take action or vote appropriately. Infact, he's been around long enough to show that he has no political aspirations at all. If he did, he'd have had plenty of time to put it out there.

    I highly recommend everyone to see the movie. It's not about deciding one way or the other, it's about enlightenment. There is nothing to be afraid of except ignorance. If we don't expose ourselves to other opinions, points of views or, possibly, NEW information, how will we know what to decide for the well being of our own families?

    I'm not a huge fan of Moore's either, but I do believe in keeping our eyes and ears open so that we may make educated decisions.

    Many hugs & peace~
     
  7. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Jo...are you saying you dont think Moore has a politically biased agenda? I really dont want to break the boards rules but CNN recently stopped advertising or talking about Moore or his movie because he made allegations that CNN was a republican political news medium. OMG! That is so far from the truth it is laughable.
     
  8. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    Hey Janet,

    When tina said he had a political agenda I was thinking she meant that he has political aspirations of becoming a senator, governor, president or something and I do not think that is the case. Do I think he's biased - yes, absolutely.

    But, sticking with the issue of health care...FOR ME, the issue of having or acquiring a national health care program in the USA should not be about anyone's political agenda...as should be about our society working together towards a common good - and to me, health care is way up there. Republican, Democrat - I couldn't care less, to me, they are all crooked on some level.

    I know that have what most would classify as really good health care coverage and I am broke from all the co-pays and RX costs in just this past month for difficult child alone. The hospital ER visit co-pay was $75 times twice - $150. The RX co-pays this month were $40 a piece times 3 equals $120 and DR visit co-pays at $25 each totalled $100. So in one month, not only did I pay my portion of the premium of $500 I also had out of pocket expenses of an additional $370. In addition to that, I have my own medical needs and that costs a total of RX $80 per month and if I see the DR, that's even more. So, in July I paid out of pocket $950 for medical/RX care for difficult child and me.

    I'm not saying that one way or the other is perfect, I'm just saying that there has got to be a better way than the way the US is doing it now.

    If anyone at all understands the hardships of health care corruption and costs and cuts, I thought it would be the people at this board. If one person (Moore) can give a different, thought provoking perspective, is that wrong? I don't think so.

    Throughout US history, thought provoking information and different perspectives have always been the impetus for change. If we don't start speaking up about what bothers us, how will we ever see changes in the health care system? Or anything else for that matter?
     
  9. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I agree there are huge problems with health care. Lord knows I have been uninsured for the past two years. My husband has never had health insurance...ever.

    I dont think there is any easy answer to fixing the health care problem because national health care really hasnt worked all that well in some other countries contrary to what it may appear. I have known people who live in places with national health care...canada, england, the netherlands...and it still isnt that easy to access care in a timely fashion or at all sometimes. Sometimes there are waiting lists for procedures or testing. It can be different in different areas.

    At least here, if worse comes to worse you can go into the ER and get seen. If you are in bad shape you will be admitted and treated. There are drug programs to help with medications and there are clinics to help people with health care. Its not good but it is there.

    Nothing is perfect and I think we need to take a good hard look before we make a change we may not really like.
     
  10. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    We do need to take a good hard look. But it seems that most people are more than happy to just stick their heads in the sand while families choose between groceries and health care, others lose their homes to medical bills, end up in bankruptcy, and are forced to forgo life-saving medical treatment simply because they cannot afford it.

    We're not only talking about the amount of co-pays we pay out every month and the incredible increase in health insurance premiums over the last few years. We are also talking of people dying simply because they can't afford to pay. by the way, that's not only for the poor. My medical bills since March are close to $200,000. Fortunately, I have insurance covering the vast majority of that expense. What if I didn't have health insurance? I probably wouldn't have gone to the hospital in March. I hesitated as it was. I was told by the doctor's in March that they don't know why I didn't have a massive heart attack resulting in death or permanent disability. Had I not gone because of lack of health insurance, I may very well be dead right now.

    It's time that people realize that health care is not a privilege, but a right; especially in a country such as ours.
     
  11. tinamarie1

    tinamarie1 Member

    I know we are not supposed to discuss political stuff here, but I just wanted to clarify what I meant when I said he has a political agenda. I worked for 3 years up until recently when we moved, for a former senator and someone currently in the running for Governor of that state. I know where Mr. Moore gets his funding for movies. And its not lottery winnings..I will just put it that way.
    I personally don't think its appropriate to make movies bashing the president of the U.S....I don't care if he is dem or rep. We as Americans just should not do that, that is my feelings. And that is something Mr. Moore has made movies about. Don't believe me? Look at his biography. He also wanted communism in this country not too many years ago.
    And just a personal side note, Mr. Moore wants a health care system similar to oh say...the military. Let me just say that I have been trying to get an appointment to see the doctor for a refill on my blood pressure medications for over 3 weeks now. The military hospitals here won't even schedule me an appointment because we moved from one region of the US to another region. Now explain that will ya! It is definitely not a perfect system, I had better results when we went through a company for health care. I am having to write letters to my husbands commander to get help on this. I have said to people on the phone: "so you are telling me that my husband is active duty military and I am his spouse, and you are refusing healthcare to me?" and their answer is, they are following procedure. agggggggggg!
     
  12. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    I really just think that the movie is VERY thought provoking and before any of us start taking sides as to which country has it better or worse or whatever, it's worth seeing.

    Think what you may about Moore or any politician (democratic or republican)...but for me the bottom line is that I want to see everything from all perspectives, not just what we see on the 6 o'clock news.

    And for the record, I do not feel that this is a political discussion, this is about being able to care for our families in a feasible way that we can afford and should be able to accomplish within our means. It's not about whether or not we're rich or poor. We all pay taxes, shouldn't we be able to choose where all that money goes? We all work hard and we should be able to provide for our families without having to give up choose between groceries or health care. And don't doubt that doesn't happen, it happens every day across our country. I'm just saying that the movie is worth the $8.50 to at least see.

    Sorry if I've offended anyone - not my intention.
     
  13. Kathy813

    Kathy813 Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Jo ~ I think that you have made some very good points. Whatever people think of Michael Moore, he has started a public discourse on a subject that affects every American. Even for those who are fortunate to have insurance, many are one serious illness away from bankruptcy due to copays and maximums on payouts.

    I remember that even Christopher Reeve talked about having hit the maximum on his insurance and the financial toll it was taking on his family and he was a millionaire movie star before he was so tragically injured.

    I said this already on the insurance forum thread on this same topic but it only stands to reason that when the company that decides on your insurance coverage stands to make more money by denying your treatment then the result is a conflict of interest.

    Other countries have their own problems but why can't we, as Americans, take the best of their health care systems and then fashion an uniquely American system. But I believe that will only happen when we take our coverage out of the hands of the for profit companies.

    I also believe that at the very least every child in this country is entitled to full health coverage (and that includes mental health).

    Janet ~ the fact that people without insurance have to go to the ER for their medical care is causing a financial crisis in many hospitals as well as causing long waits to be seen. A famous hospital in Atlanta is about to close it's doors due to this very problem. Someone has to pay for that medical care. I would rather have my taxes being used to provide universal health care so that people who are uninsured (like my difficult child) could get medical care without having to resort to going to the ER.

    ~Kathy
     
  14. judi

    judi Active Member

    Hubby and I went to see Sicko last night and came up with this. Bear in mind I'm an advanced practice nurse:

    1. Yes, the health care system in the US is not the best. However, it is the responsibility of the consumer to pick and choose the healthcare as well as obtaining second opinions. In our system, the squeaky wheel often gets the grease!

    2. They didn't discuss concomittant issues like organ donation. In the US, organ donation is the highest in the world. I work in nephrology and transplants are much easier to get here in the US.

    3. Looks are deceiving. I have lived oversease in Japan (3 years), Spain (3 years), Korea (2 years). The housing is tiny compared to the US and many of the things we take for granted are not available overseas. The physician in France looked like he lived a nice lifestyle but sorry that was a tiny apartment for the money he was paying.

    4. I am constrained to what I can prescribe by the insurance companies. However, I can also (with much paperwork) obtain the appropriate medications for my patients by doing pre-authorization paperwork. It is an extra effort but one I feel is the right thing to do.

    5. Is our healthcare system perfect? Nope far from it. However, we as consumers should be talking with our congressmen, senators and those that make the decisions and lobbying for our own support.
     
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