Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by night4now, Jun 7, 2008.

  1. night4now

    night4now New Member

    My step son is 'sexually reactve' and is constantly toughing other kids or convncing them or tricking them into touching him. He is currently in therapy, and it seems to be doing absolutely not good!
    The problem isnt jsut him. He is perping on his little brother and now his brother is dong it as well. We have punishments, becuase obviously this is not acceptable behavior and they are both aware of this. Nothing drastic, jsut a lot of time to think about how their behavior effects others. But this seems to be doing no good at all!!!!
    Is there something we should be doing? Can anyone help?
  2. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    This is a very serious situation that needs to be addressed swiftly. Not only are both your sons at risk, but I think you are at risk as well for being aware of the situation and not stopping it. I would also think therapist is possibly at risk for being aware of ongoing child abuse, which is what perpetrating is, and not reporting it.

    24/7 eyes on supervision is mandatory, in my humble opinion. Oldest boy cannot be out of an adult's line of sight, ever. It is a safety issue.

    I have questions about past abuse, diagnoses, and ages, but quite frankly, all that is secondary right now. The boys need supervision, period, 24/7. Whether it's inappropriate behavior and whether they know it, and regardless of what punishments are being enforced, none of that in my humble opinion is going to stop the behavior.

    Get the kids safe first.

    Then you need to find a therapist who specializes in sexually agressive youth and children - SACY is the term I'm familiar with from experience with my son- (how old are the boys?) as well as a psychiatrist who can do a full evaluation on them.

    But they simply *must* be supervised, constantly.
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Have you gone for any therapy? Has either child been sexually abused?
    I think you have to go beyond watching them. If either acts out on a child outside of the family, you, hub and the kids could be in serious trouble with CPS or even the law. I had an adopted child who perped on my other two and he went to juvy jail and perped there too. He was tried in court and found guilty of sexual assault of a minor (he was 13 and my other kids were 7, 6 and 3). We undid the adoption because he was dangerous. Both of your stepkids need help and they need it now.
    Sexually acting out does not change because you punish the kids. It's an impulse that they can't and won't stop. Have either been diagnosed with any disorders? What is it like in bio. moms home. We really need more info. How old are they?
  4. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Before we can help, we need a little more info. What is the history of this son? Is he in therapy? Is he on medications?
    All of this info can lead us into a better direction to help.
    We are here for you.
  5. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am so sorry.

    It is time to report this to the pediatrician and the CPS. You know the oldest is "perping" on the youngest to the point the youngest is damaged into thinking it is OK. This is serious.

    You are at risk for losing your kids AND being charged the way things stand. If you report this to CPS it will not be fun. They may or may not be helpful (depends on the caseworker) but it WILL be on record that you asked for help. And it WILL help in future interactions, which you will have with this situation.

    I hate writing this, I wish I had an easy answer. I don't hate writing to you, just that I need to tell you this is such a dangerous situation, for YOU and for the kids.

    You must NEVER EVER have them out of your site. When we went through this we had to take a child into the restroom with us. If we coudln't take the same sex child, we had the child stand in the bathtub with the curtain closed (make sure the curtain is NOT see through in ANY area).
  6. night4now

    night4now New Member

    Ok, lets get into more detail here.
    My son is 13, and has aspergers. Lived half time at my house and half at his dad, not really in this portion of the story.
    The older of my step kids, the 7 yo, purportedly was touched once by his uncle. I repeat, touched once. We went to the youth justice center, where the boy refused to implicate his uncle. Charges were dropped. This child is of no relation to either of us. My hub had a relationship with the mother from when the child was 4 months old. Bio father is gone, never in the picture. Mother dissapeared from all of our lives about 2 years ago. We have guardianship, been officially diagnosed as Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) and SR, unofficially as ODD. He is a master manipulator, and uses people at will. He is also a pathological liar.
    The younger is 4 yo and is mostly effected by his brothers behavior, but is a chronic liar. He has been perped on and is perping back, so far only on his brother.
    The 7 yo is in therapy, has been to half a dozen different doctors. We are trying to get him enrolled in ISAT. We are also trying to get him into an outpatient behavior modification program.
    DCFS has been called on me already. After looking into the background, the mothers mental issues (she claims only bi polar, but there is more) her family and lifestyle, her absence, etc. dismissed all claims. In fact, she pretty much told us that kids with Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) do thing like lieto get their parents in trouble quite often.
    We have one shrink that tells us to disipline for this behavior, and another says not to.
    The boys know this behavior is wrong, and is illegal. They have been talked to by social workers, police, etc, and they continue to do it.
  7. night4now

    night4now New Member

    Oh, and he is almost always line of sight. The family is aware he isnt to be left with any children, and the daycare woman knows as well. However, even being as vigilant as we can be, things still happen. I wish they didnt, but they do.
  8. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Night - thanks for the background info - it helps to put it in perspective. Kudos to you and husband for taking on the challenge of raising these boys, especially when you are raising an older child with special needs.

    I would run fast and furiously from any psychiatrist who suggests punishment for sexualized behavior. I'm just a mom but that is counterintuitive in my book. Ditto with emphasizing that it's wrong and illegal - it just isn't going to matter to a kid, but *especially* to a 7- and 4-year-old.

    My son has a history of sexualized behavior at a young age (starting about 7 or 8) but it was not predatory per se. More like open to any suggestions from peers, which was especially a problem when he was in RTCs. He did go to a therapist recommended by DCFS who specialized in this kind of stuff, in fact she did training for DCFS staff. There are folks who focus on this but it takes a bit of digging to find them.

    I don't mean to be alarmist but I really think you're dealing with a situation that has the potential to get more dangerous very quickly. DCFS may have closed the first case but heaven forbid if another child in daycare or school becomes involved.

    Resources - gosh, I think I'd start with a full evaluation at a Children's or university hospital with not only a neuropsychologist but also with a specialist in child abuse and/or sexualized behavoir as well as Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). I honestly don't know a whole lot about Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) other than the kids can be very *very* resistant to treatment. And I don't mean to imply that 7-year-old was abused (though even 1 incident with an adult is abuse), but in my very limited experience, kids who are so young who are SR generally have extensive histories of abuse, so I would think a professional who works in that specialized field would be the person best qualified to start addressing these issues.

    I would very strongly recommend getting very assertive about getting them into the properly trained professionals *now*. Hysterical mom is a strategy that has worked for me and I think it's called for here - you have 2 extremely young children who are perpetrating against each other. I think the risk of it spreading to outside the family is huge.

    Does the 7-year-old have an IEP? If not, I would strongly recommend getting an evaluation started. The very first accommodation I would demand is a 1:1 aide for him because of safety issues. By requesting IEP, you are notifying school of his issues (and I would be very forthcoming about the SR). The school then bears liability for insuring safety of all the kids.

    I'm so glad you found us. I cannot imagine how difficult it is to have to face these issues in such young children.
  9. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    Still a little confused about who is who, so it would be helpful for to do a signature so we know the ages of each child, diagnosis, and medications, etc.

    Bi-polar that is severe and untreated has hyper sexuality as a major component of it. When my son was in phopsh when he was 6, there was a 5 year old that was completely hyper sexual, and it was really concerning. However once his mania was brought under control by mood stabilizer medications, the hyper sexuality stopped.

    There could really only be 2 reasons he is doing this - a chemical imbalance in his brain, that could be treated through medications - or he is repeating some abuse that happened to him - or both. The urge to repeat sexual behaviors is very, very common in kids who have been abused themselves. It can become almost a compulsion, unless they are able to work through their trauma in a healthy way - thus setting themselves up for a future pattern a sexual predator. You may not know of the abuse, many children suppress it, or refuse to tell others about.

    At this point I would say this is such a serious situation for potential future ramifications, that I would be put him in a phoshp or short term Residential Treatment Center (RTC) ASAP. I think that he immediately needs to get a full neuro-pscyh work up - therapy every day - medications if appropriate to see if you can stop this behavior in it's tracks. in my opinion, intervention should be immediate, because every day this behavior continues, it gets more ingrained in his head as a lifestyle or coping mechanism.

    Good luck, let us know what you decide, and we are here for you.
  10. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Between CPS, school, police and daycare, it seems like no one is listening. I'm surprised they let the brothers stay together if the 7 y/o is molesting the 4 y/o and the 4 y/o has become sexualized because of it.
  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Thanks for letting us know a bit more. I am sorry that these boys are so disturbed. I know it is hard for you.

    sending support and hugs,

  12. Masta

    Masta Member

    Im glad you made it here night4now. The parents here have great advice.

  13. Masta

    Masta Member

    I've know night4now for a couple of weeks now. I directed her to this board because she needs all the help she can get.

    Its confusing Steely, I will try to make sense of it for ya.

    13yr son: bio child to night4now and her ex-husband. Has aspergers.

    7yr son: night4nows husbands ex-girlfriend’s child, not biologically night4nows or hubbies. 7yr old has had a relationship with night4nows hubby since he was 4mths old. (bio father never in picture). Has Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) & SR.

    4yr son: night4nows current husband and his ex girlfriend’s child, also the mother to the 7yr. Learning from his 7yr brother.

    The 7yr and 4yr were left by their bio mom 2yrs ago. night4now and her hubby have guardianship of their 7yr old.
  14. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Masta. So are the 7 and 4 year old brothers, or half brothers? It's a shame that no one seems to be taking this problem very seriously. It sounds like a nightmare.
  15. Masta

    Masta Member

    7yr and 4yr are half brothers.

    7yr bio mother and father are not on the scene. night4nows hubby took on the 7ryr like his own.

    4yr is night4nows hubbies child to the mother of the 7yr child (she took off 2yrs ago and left both kids with night4nows hubby).

    so basically night4now and her hubby are raising a child (the 7yr old) that biologically not theirs, but they love him just the same. they got guardianship of him.
  16. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    These boys need some serious treatment- ASAP. My take on it is that something- a lot- has gone on with the 7 yo and it obviously is coming out in this way. The 4 yo, bless his heart, is just going with what he has been taught. And the parents who are raising these boys are going to end up in big trouble if they can't find someone to take it serious. I understand that there are a lot of incompetent people out there in positions where they are supposed to be helping, but I think it is time to make a billion phone calls and document each one. Contact private and public agencies and psychiatrists and tdocs. Contact local advocacy or NAMI groups. It would appear to me that the 7yo and the 4yo would need a little different type of couseling, but I am no expert on this.

    You are trying to get help- that is obvious or you wouldn't be here. I sincerely hope that you can find something- but it will take some assertiveness or I am concerned that all of you in the family will just become another statistic. Another thing- maybe try a nearby children's psychiatric hospital that is state funded- not because I think the boys need to be institutionalized, but because they end up taking in kids from abusive homes (both sexual and just plain assualt) and they might be able to point you in the right direction. If you don't live in a big city, look for one in the closest big city.

    Keep us posted and good luck- we know you are trying- just keep in mind- you are going to have to fight to get this help.
  17. night4now

    night4now New Member

    The problem I am having most is I dont know where to start. According to our shrinks we are not 'severe' enough to enroll full time in an inpatient treatment program. There are an abundance of children waiting to get in, is what they told me.
    The state did close the erronous abuse claim, but you are right. I am terrified that they are going to come take him away after one of these incidence. I love the boy, and I really want to help him, but this is killing my family at the same time, and I dont even know where to start.
    That is what I need help with most, where do I start? We are seeing two seperate therapist, once a psychiatrist, another a psychologist. Both are giving me seperate stories as well, recomendation wise anyway.
    We are no longer entangled in DCFS, but the only way to more closely monitor the boy is to quit my job and stay home, and we jsut cant afford to not have the money or the insurance, honestly.
    Someone mentioned an IEP. We dont have an IEP, as he has no learning disorder, and the school refuses to give him one. Academically he is top of his class, he has no problem in any area of school, other than peer to peer relationships.
    And i worry for the baby. This is not acceptable, not for him to endure or to think is ok. But what do I do? Just give the kid back?
    Someone please just help me know where to start. I have tried all the avenues availible to me, at least that i know of...
  18. night4now

    night4now New Member

    Thanks sooo much for getting me here Masta :hug:
  19. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Children's hospital or university teaching hospital. I'd start in neuropsychologist dept and possibly also with the social workers in the hospital. Explain the situation fully so that they are aware that there are already professionals involved (giving contradictory advice) but that the situation is continuing to go on.

    If the school district is not aware of the SR, you need to meet with them again. If they are.... sheesh. Please post over in the sped101 forum because I really feel strongly school district needs to be aware and addressing the potential problems here, but Martie and Sheila would be better to address this from an IEP and Special Education standpoint.
  20. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    It took an admit to a phosph to get people to take us seriously. It opened up testing, new doctors, new avenues. It is not a cure all, in any way, but it is a start. You can simply take him to the ER, tell them that he is endangering himself and little brother, and see where that goes. If you demand it, they will do a full psychiatric work up - they will also help determine if he needs full time inpatient - and maybe give him a medication to maybe help him stay stable.

    The shrink is wrong about him not being severe enough. You just have to keep pressing forward, and knocking on enough doorsteps, asserting you warrior mom prowess, until you get what you need for your boy. This shrink is obviously not the one - keep moving forward until you find the one.

    Don't give up!!!! Just keep fighting the good fight - until you find the right solution that will give your son some peace.