I am so very confused. My ds has a language delay and is inappropriate with other kids like shoving, etc. We had IEPER meeting and was told by the temporary psychologist that she thinks he is Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) not otherwise specified and err they did not tell me what that meant etc. All the research I did states the belief is he is on the spectrum which makes NO sense. I am not a DENIAL person my husband is a nurse and his older brother had issues which were helped immensely this year when he began taking ADHD mess. I am so concerned confused worried and do not know what to do or the ne next steps to take. I have another meeting at his school next week but I disagree with the diagnosis.and do not know what to do
Help with wild six year old who was diagnosis w sensory disorder at 3 and ADHD
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BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Hi there and welcome.
Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified is high functioning autistic spectrum disorder. With his language delays and improper behavior towards his peers, why do you think that diagnosis makes no sense? ADHD does not cause a speech delay nor does it make one that inappropriate with other kids
What is an IEPER meeting and what country do you live in? Sorry I can't help more. The more details you give us about your beloved child, the more we can steer you in some hopefully helpful directions. How does he play with toys? Does he line them up, take them apart or use them for imaginative play? Can he transition from one activity to an other without having a meltdown? Does he blurt nonesense out in class or climb under his desk or cover his ears when he hears loud noise or refuse to wear certain textures or eat certain types of food? How was he as an infant?
From the little you told me, the diagnosis. seems spot on the money, but you haven't shared much. My son was dxd. with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified at age elevin. I wish he had been dxd. earlier, but usually these kids get a wrongful ADHD diagnosis. at first and don't get the interventions that they need. Along with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified often goes sensory integration disorder, ADHD behavior, learning difficulties, rigidity (that can cause meltdowns) and an inability to appropriate interact with same age peers, and obsessive interests (to the exclusion of other interests). They tend to have great rote memories. Often the kids are quite bright, but are seen as "strange." My son is eighteen now and doing considerably better. He even has friends.
Here is an online Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) test. I chat on a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) site and the parents there feel it is very accurate if you answer the questions honestly. You may want to see a neuropsychologist if you are conflicted. They are really good diagnosticians.
http://www.childbrain.com/pddassess.html
Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified is high functioning autistic spectrum disorder. With his language delays and improper behavior towards his peers, why do you think that diagnosis makes no sense? ADHD does not cause a speech delay nor does it make one that inappropriate with other kids
What is an IEPER meeting and what country do you live in? Sorry I can't help more. The more details you give us about your beloved child, the more we can steer you in some hopefully helpful directions. How does he play with toys? Does he line them up, take them apart or use them for imaginative play? Can he transition from one activity to an other without having a meltdown? Does he blurt nonesense out in class or climb under his desk or cover his ears when he hears loud noise or refuse to wear certain textures or eat certain types of food? How was he as an infant?
From the little you told me, the diagnosis. seems spot on the money, but you haven't shared much. My son was dxd. with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified at age elevin. I wish he had been dxd. earlier, but usually these kids get a wrongful ADHD diagnosis. at first and don't get the interventions that they need. Along with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified often goes sensory integration disorder, ADHD behavior, learning difficulties, rigidity (that can cause meltdowns) and an inability to appropriate interact with same age peers, and obsessive interests (to the exclusion of other interests). They tend to have great rote memories. Often the kids are quite bright, but are seen as "strange." My son is eighteen now and doing considerably better. He even has friends.
Here is an online Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) test. I chat on a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) site and the parents there feel it is very accurate if you answer the questions honestly. You may want to see a neuropsychologist if you are conflicted. They are really good diagnosticians.
http://www.childbrain.com/pddassess.html
keista
New Member
Welcome. Firstly, you don't have a diagnosis. What you have is the opinion of school staff. However, in my experience, early dxes of sensory issues and ADHD very often = spectrum. Not knowing anything else, I'd agree with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified. The good news is that at this early age, that diagnosis opens all sorts of doors in the school system, especially if it's school staff identifying it.
If I were you, I would accept whatever accommodations and services the school is offering and go get your own private evaluations. At the same time, read up more about the Autism Spectrum. It's not as scary as it sounds. In the "old days" Rainman (the movie) was considered what high functioning looked like. These days he's considered severely impaired. High functioning spectrum can be very easily missed in the general population. With my kids you wouldn't know it unless you spent a substantial amount of time with them and were familiar with all facets of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD).
If I were you, I would accept whatever accommodations and services the school is offering and go get your own private evaluations. At the same time, read up more about the Autism Spectrum. It's not as scary as it sounds. In the "old days" Rainman (the movie) was considered what high functioning looked like. These days he's considered severely impaired. High functioning spectrum can be very easily missed in the general population. With my kids you wouldn't know it unless you spent a substantial amount of time with them and were familiar with all facets of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD).
Don't panic, your child is not changed by any diagnosis or opinion. See the school label as an open door to services in order to help your son. If the school suggested looking into the autism spectrum it means they are wiling to do interventions and accomodation.
In order to become confortable with it, you might need to do your own research on the subject and talk to a medical diagnostician (devel. pediatrician, neuro-psychiatric, psychologist,etc.. or even start with your regular pediatrician).
Look into the therapies used to help autistic and see how it would relate to your son.
My difficult child is on the waiting list for autism testing, and to be honest with you if V had the label it would mean help for V and my family! And that would be very helpful to us, specially with Kindergarten next year.
If you give more details on his particular struggles at home, school and community, we might be able to give more practical advise.
Welcome!
In order to become confortable with it, you might need to do your own research on the subject and talk to a medical diagnostician (devel. pediatrician, neuro-psychiatric, psychologist,etc.. or even start with your regular pediatrician).
Look into the therapies used to help autistic and see how it would relate to your son.
My difficult child is on the waiting list for autism testing, and to be honest with you if V had the label it would mean help for V and my family! And that would be very helpful to us, specially with Kindergarten next year.
If you give more details on his particular struggles at home, school and community, we might be able to give more practical advise.
Welcome!
L
Liahona
Guest
You've gotten some great advice. Welcome to the board.
buddy
New Member
Hi and welcome. My son is on the spectrum, I am a Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) and knew he had brain damage from a mass, and STILL I just didn't want to say autism spectrum. I actually asked the psychiatric I liked at work (a child dev. center) to do an evaluation for behavioral issues and several of my co workers had to sit down with me and go step by step through the criteria so I could see how, even if at the time the level of a behavior may have seemed milder, it DID actually fit the criteria. WOW did my heart break. I was also afraid that it meant he would not make progress as well (even though I never thought that about other kids, lol) and that he might not be treated for the things I KNEW were issues (the brain injury). I laugh now when I think of it, but it was scary and sad at the time.
A school label is a label for educational purposes only. It is not used by the medical community as a diagnosis so most use it as a way to get services and Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) opens LOTS of doors you do not want shut. Once he has an IEP, in the future if you feel the category is wrong you can work on that, but for now...USE IT. Get all that you can get for him because it means Occupational Therapist (OT) opens up, SL services open up etc.
I assume by IEPER you mean IEP plus Evaluation Report meeting.???? (different districts call them different things). Once you get going with this, then maybe you would feel more comfortable going through a private evaluation process with a neuropsychologist to see if he really does fall on the spectrum or if he is more adhd plus sensory difficulties, plus speech/language impaired. Having a private speech/lang and occupational therapy evaluation done will also probably in your case.
Can you explain what about that label you are not comfortable with? There are certainly kids who are not on the spectrum who can have the symptoms your child does so not saying you are wrong, just many here have to fight for services so we might view this as a road in, and feel you are lucky in some strange respect..... The current way to medically diagnose a child on the spectrum is to have an evaluation (which SHOULD be more than a single appointment with no outside data) and to put them in a category from the DSM IV (the medical books with diagnostic codes) under Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). The categories under that are autism, Aspergers Disorder, disintegrative autism, Rett's syndrome and finally there is a code for kids who may have a little bit from one of the other categories (or two) but just doesn't really meet the criteria, yet they do have similar issues which kind of affect communication and social interaction. Those kids get the diagnosis of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified(not otherwise specified). A school psychiatric can tell you that is what theythink but the truth is in schools there is ONLY one group...the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) group. (THe new diagnostic manual is changing to just Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) too). This means your child probably is doing pretty well, has a ton of potential, and given the right supports (not punished just for acting out), may be one of those kids who people barely know is on the spectrum. (yes, there are others who seem more Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) as time goes by and social demands become more challenging too). Still, It is easy for me to say that to you....that it will be ok and probably a good thing you got someone who is offering services, but I know my mommy heart didn't believe it and was sooo sad once I did start to think they were right.
I am sorry you are going through this. Give yourself time but dont worry that this label is forever. Most of us have had our kids receive different diagnosis over the years. It is all part of the process. Kids grow and change.
For now, in my humble opinion (you do what you feel is right and we will stand by you) I'd suggest waiting to see what services are being offered and focus on that. THAT is what will make the difference for you no matter what they call the bigger category.
HUGS, Dee
A school label is a label for educational purposes only. It is not used by the medical community as a diagnosis so most use it as a way to get services and Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) opens LOTS of doors you do not want shut. Once he has an IEP, in the future if you feel the category is wrong you can work on that, but for now...USE IT. Get all that you can get for him because it means Occupational Therapist (OT) opens up, SL services open up etc.
I assume by IEPER you mean IEP plus Evaluation Report meeting.???? (different districts call them different things). Once you get going with this, then maybe you would feel more comfortable going through a private evaluation process with a neuropsychologist to see if he really does fall on the spectrum or if he is more adhd plus sensory difficulties, plus speech/language impaired. Having a private speech/lang and occupational therapy evaluation done will also probably in your case.
Can you explain what about that label you are not comfortable with? There are certainly kids who are not on the spectrum who can have the symptoms your child does so not saying you are wrong, just many here have to fight for services so we might view this as a road in, and feel you are lucky in some strange respect..... The current way to medically diagnose a child on the spectrum is to have an evaluation (which SHOULD be more than a single appointment with no outside data) and to put them in a category from the DSM IV (the medical books with diagnostic codes) under Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). The categories under that are autism, Aspergers Disorder, disintegrative autism, Rett's syndrome and finally there is a code for kids who may have a little bit from one of the other categories (or two) but just doesn't really meet the criteria, yet they do have similar issues which kind of affect communication and social interaction. Those kids get the diagnosis of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified(not otherwise specified). A school psychiatric can tell you that is what theythink but the truth is in schools there is ONLY one group...the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) group. (THe new diagnostic manual is changing to just Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) too). This means your child probably is doing pretty well, has a ton of potential, and given the right supports (not punished just for acting out), may be one of those kids who people barely know is on the spectrum. (yes, there are others who seem more Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) as time goes by and social demands become more challenging too). Still, It is easy for me to say that to you....that it will be ok and probably a good thing you got someone who is offering services, but I know my mommy heart didn't believe it and was sooo sad once I did start to think they were right.
I am sorry you are going through this. Give yourself time but dont worry that this label is forever. Most of us have had our kids receive different diagnosis over the years. It is all part of the process. Kids grow and change.
For now, in my humble opinion (you do what you feel is right and we will stand by you) I'd suggest waiting to see what services are being offered and focus on that. THAT is what will make the difference for you no matter what they call the bigger category.
HUGS, Dee
Sorry about that, I was on I pad before. IEP meeting last week. I have been told that by having a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified diagnosis he will qualify for more services. Don't get me wrong, he needs help, believe me. But I cannot wrap my head around the fact that he was sensory disorder and now all of the sudden Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) and they didn't even explain to me what that meant. I want a diagnosis and I want the best for my son. I live in an area with a history of excellent services. I just don't understand what that means, long term, etc. My older son had similar issues to a lesser extent. The recommendation is continued speech, Occupational Therapist (OT) and assistance in the classroom. I have started him on Ritalin and he has been doing MUCH better. I am scared, and confused and my husband does not seem to agree with the diagnosis and is not concerned stating, he is getting better and will continue to get better. by the way never lines up anything, plays appropriately with toys, just very aggressive (has older brother and plays aggressive with him).
Malika
Well-Known Member
Well, people do get misdiagnosed and you are quite right to be questioning this and to want more information and understanding. Inappropriate shoving could certainly come under ADHD, I think! I "hear" that you are not making a comment about autism per se, just that you (understandably) want clarity and accuracy. Can you talk more to the psychologist and put your concerns and questions to her?
School cannot ever give a diagnosis - other than perhaps of a learning disability, that being more their area of expertise.
The diagnosis has to come from the medical community.
But... we've found schools to be very "bucket" oriented. As in, groups of services tend to go with certain labels. If your child needs A, C, and X, then your child must "be" a diagnosis of ZZZ. In reality, the combo of services could come from a wide range of dxes, and/or a mix of dxes. But, you seem to agree that he needs the services being offered. In that case, don't fight the school label directly, but do make sure that the IEP etc. are clear that this is an "educational label for the purposes of providing services, as no medical diagnosis exists", or something like that.
And then... go pursue your own medical testing etc. and get the "real" answers. Or at least as close as you can at this point in time, because often it takes multiple rounds to get the complete or accurate diagnosis(es).
The diagnosis has to come from the medical community.
But... we've found schools to be very "bucket" oriented. As in, groups of services tend to go with certain labels. If your child needs A, C, and X, then your child must "be" a diagnosis of ZZZ. In reality, the combo of services could come from a wide range of dxes, and/or a mix of dxes. But, you seem to agree that he needs the services being offered. In that case, don't fight the school label directly, but do make sure that the IEP etc. are clear that this is an "educational label for the purposes of providing services, as no medical diagnosis exists", or something like that.
And then... go pursue your own medical testing etc. and get the "real" answers. Or at least as close as you can at this point in time, because often it takes multiple rounds to get the complete or accurate diagnosis(es).
I got here a little late been a hectic couple days. It sounds like the school part of it is doing great that is half the battle, what made it so hard with me is was at war with 2 different schools and managing a severely ill sibling while trying to find answers for my youngest. School not causing problems while you get some medical answers will be helpful as not to create distractions.
The least painless way to go about the medical diagnosis is to get a full neuropsychologist evaluation or developmental pediatrician evaluation, - the treat symptoms and label a diagnosis to justify that medication method caused Angel's issues to become much more severe then they ever needed to be. I have 2 full siblings with same diagnosis but its like R has bipolar and Angel has
BIPOLAR!!! as with many illness they come in different levels of severity. Not saying your child has this illness but to demonstrate the difference in severity of diagnosis's
You mentioned started Ritalin and it is working good for him, that's great that medication helped my son a lot, my girls however not the right medication for them. You are going to want to jot some notes on the calendar regarding what time he's going to bed, general mood & energy level in the evenings, any nitemares should also be noted if he starts having niteterrors that are waking the house up with his screams might want to discontinue the Ritalin until get more answers.
Sounds like you are doing what you can and questioning things when you feel should which is great, wish I had asked more ?s. No school diagnosis holds any weight in the medical community so just as long as they are giving the services he needs
"if it ain't broke don't fix it"
The least painless way to go about the medical diagnosis is to get a full neuropsychologist evaluation or developmental pediatrician evaluation, - the treat symptoms and label a diagnosis to justify that medication method caused Angel's issues to become much more severe then they ever needed to be. I have 2 full siblings with same diagnosis but its like R has bipolar and Angel has
BIPOLAR!!! as with many illness they come in different levels of severity. Not saying your child has this illness but to demonstrate the difference in severity of diagnosis's
You mentioned started Ritalin and it is working good for him, that's great that medication helped my son a lot, my girls however not the right medication for them. You are going to want to jot some notes on the calendar regarding what time he's going to bed, general mood & energy level in the evenings, any nitemares should also be noted if he starts having niteterrors that are waking the house up with his screams might want to discontinue the Ritalin until get more answers.
Sounds like you are doing what you can and questioning things when you feel should which is great, wish I had asked more ?s. No school diagnosis holds any weight in the medical community so just as long as they are giving the services he needs
"if it ain't broke don't fix it"
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Does your son know how to play with his same age peers appropriately (his brother aside)? When you say rough do you mean boy-type rough or violent, in other words hurting him? Boys do roughhouse and are often rowdy and loud when they play. The line sort of gets crossed when a child is constantly harming others.
I work at a daycare and often have to watch the four year olds. Most of the boys LOVE rough, physical play, BUT...they do NOT like the child who causes them actual pain. They will shun that child. And they do NOT like the boy who knocks down their sand castle. And they do NOT like the boy who does not seem to understand co operative play.
If your son does not know how to play with other kids his age, along with his speech delay (even if it improves), I would think that maybe the diagnosis. is correct. The spectrum is very wide...and also it becomes a lot more apparent when the k ids get older. They may actually learn how to speak well and catch up to their peers, yet continue to be totally inappropriate with his peers, espescially as those peers expect give-and-take communication and expect social norms.
Do you know how your son interacts with his school peers because this tells you a lot. Does he like to interact or play off by himself? And if he interacts, how he know how to do it without antagonizing his little classmates?
I work at a daycare and often have to watch the four year olds. Most of the boys LOVE rough, physical play, BUT...they do NOT like the child who causes them actual pain. They will shun that child. And they do NOT like the boy who knocks down their sand castle. And they do NOT like the boy who does not seem to understand co operative play.
If your son does not know how to play with other kids his age, along with his speech delay (even if it improves), I would think that maybe the diagnosis. is correct. The spectrum is very wide...and also it becomes a lot more apparent when the k ids get older. They may actually learn how to speak well and catch up to their peers, yet continue to be totally inappropriate with his peers, espescially as those peers expect give-and-take communication and expect social norms.
Do you know how your son interacts with his school peers because this tells you a lot. Does he like to interact or play off by himself? And if he interacts, how he know how to do it without antagonizing his little classmates?
buddy
New Member
If he has no problems playing other than aggression, then, yeah....it may not be right, but if he can't play varied, novel back and forth with other kids or has other symptoms that interfere socially, he may have traits. To have the autism diagnosis. kids do not have to have a ton of the common symptoms....many do not line things up or spin or flap hands or have bad eye contact....there is such a wide range of issues so you can check out some of those check list sites and see what you think but given you dont really know what is going on fully, I'd just go ahead with the school for now then get your own independent/private evaluation to find out if it is really some other thing. The thing is in the school therapy for the sensory disorder will likely only happen with the Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) label (that isNOT how it should be but they are so connected to it because it is such a common symptom for ASDers) and Occupational Therapist (OT) is a related service that nearly always is thought of when kids have Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) (should be for more too but it is not argued about so much with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)). Once you get that "in" and get the goals on the IEP...THEN fix the label according to the private evaluation if you disagree. I'd hate to see you lose out on Occupational Therapist (OT) services. Dont release the IEP to anyone if you feel it is not right. It is confidential. Just use it for your own purposes and keep investigating. Just what I'd do....you know best, but given the little info you have shared it surely could be that in the end Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) wont be the deal...or you may think differently later.
