Hey, Cedar, or anyone interested in FOO (Family of Origin) issues. Cedar, WHY NOW???

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
The next hard part is figuring out how to be a decent person in my own right.
Cedar, what in the world does this mean? You are a decent person in your own right. You have been working on this all along. You may, as have I, suppressed certain qualities or aspects of yourself that reminded you of your mother, but that did not take away from your developing as your own self.

You have always been decent since as a child you decided to be.

I do not understand, really, what you mean.

If you do mean this, what is it that you have in mind that you should have done, should now do that would be different than what you have done, and already are?

I mean, fill me in, please. Because I am at a loss.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Cedar, what in the world does this mean? You are a decent person in your own right. You have been working on this all along. You may, as have I, suppressed certain strengths that reminded you of your mother, but that did not take away from your developing as your own self.

You have always been decent since as a child you decided to be.

I do not understand, really, what you mean.

If you do mean this, what is it that you have in mind that you should have done, should now do that would be different than what you have done, and already are?

I mean, fill me in, please. Because I am at a loss.
Cop a, this is still my tablet. Just wanted to say I'm glad your son is there. Sometimes never letting them back is so hurtful to us that it's not worth it. It doesn't matter what the majority may do. You can only do what u can live with. From now on please take that into serious consideration. Happy for u both. Still with princess and had so much fun at baby's party. Be back home tomorrow. Type more then. I really don't like typing on the tablet. Hi cedar. Will catch up with you too.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I wanted to say a few things after reading although I hate tablet and can't quote with it.

Cedar I was not a Cinderella. Like my mother before me, I lived like a pig. My mother did little housework. Not a priority. I'm still a disorganized housekeeper. That was part of my childhood chaos...a mess everywhere. No facade of the good housewife. My mother had a messy appearance and so did me and bro. Part of the eebullying by peers, I suppose. I believe things got better that way for sis but by the time she was a teen I was married and no longer thankfully in that house.

On DNA. I don't get why it's important let alone important if you don't even like the person. Cedar, I get your sisters idea, although she may have created it to hurt you rather than for any other reason. To me my REAL sister was my dear friend who died. We did more for one another in every way than our family members had. She had a sick mother too. Maybe will explain when not on tablet. We were strong together, she and I. We had everything sisters are supposed to have. I don't think DNA is much more than often a sad accident of birth. If I felt otherwise I would have never adopted kid

Lastly. I would never give an animal to a pound or anyone I didn't know and trust. I think animals are just as precious as humans, sometimes more so. I am wearing my crazy dog lady shirt:)
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Ok...I'm on hotel computer. My tablet is dead and it's the middle of the night, but I usually get up in the middle of the night, then go back to sleep. We'll be home tomorrow after fantastic time with Princess and my precious little granddaughter.

I want to talk about your son and you, Copa. I am tired so can only do it briefly.

You have to take yourself into consideration when you handle your son. I feel your pain as we talk so much and so intimately. If you want to stick to your rules and you're ok with that, fine. If you really wanted to kick him out of bed but make him go late to help M, that would be ok too. If you want to let him sleep at your house at night and be out all day so he's not laying in bed, that's an option. You can also make him go to a shelter.

ANYTHING IS AN OPTION.

But don't kill yourself over it. Some of us need our kids near us more than others do and I think we need to take our needs into consideration too, unless our grown kids are stealing from us or violent or using hard drugs. You matter and he matters to you and you don't have a HUGE support system, like I don't. But you have less peeps than even me. You do whatever feels right and don't let anybody stop you. Your son is not as harmful to you as your mother and sister...it is different. He is mostly hurting himself, although he has his moments...it is in your hands and you have to do what you NEED to do in order to get out of bed in the morning. I care about you and don't want to see you sad and full of despair.

What works for one person may not work for another.

Big hugs and I'm going back to sleep. Will check in when I get home tomorrow.

Hope you're having fun, Cedar and everyone reading!!!!
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I'm home. Not sure anyone else is. I want to post about Goneboy and what Princess told me about him. At one time they did everything together so she knows him best, but also tells me, "I don't know him. Nobody knows him." Some interesting feedback, but want to make sure somebody is here before I do post. I wish Princess and I had had this talk long ago. We had talked on and off, but this time it was a longer talk with no interruptions.

One thing I will adress is the time he jokingly said, "You know I need a wife and we could get married. We're not biologically related."

I said, "Are you sure he wasn't kidding?"

She said, "I really don't think so, Mom."

He did not think of her as a sister or us as his family.

I said, "What did you say?"

She said, "Well, I was thinking yuk, but I changed the subject, but I think he was dead serious."

Interesting about him.

He was right that there would be no harm to any potential children, but Princess thinks of him as a brother and thought it was bizarre. She also said, "I try not to remember it, Mom."

I also found out that he d oesn't see ex very often either, which is why ex is so involved with BuddhaBaby and Junior. Ex LOVES grands and would do anything for ALL his grands, but he doesn't get to see Goneboys grands very often and usually friends are over when he is there too. By far Princess and her SO are the ones who come to his rescue when he needs something, although Goneboy lives just as close as she does.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Hi SWOT I am here.
"You know I need a wife and we could get married. We're not biologically related."
He must have felt very desperate to fit in somewhere. Is Princess Chinese, too?
She said, "Well, I was thinking yuk, but I changed the subject, but I think he was dead serious."
I think YUCK, also. She handled it beautifully.
Princess thinks of him as a brother and thought it was bizarre. She also said, "I try not to remember it, Mom."
She sounds extremely strong, with great instincts and very well adjusted, SWOT.
I would never give an animal to a pound or anyone I didn't know and trust.
I don't want to either. That is why I kept writing it in my posts until I got a response.

M is right, though. He thinks the reason we have not gone to the new City is because of the animals. That it is too much to travel to a new city, knowing nobody, with 3 animals, one of which is untrustworthy with his bathroom habits.

We cannot let Romy loose in the house because he will go to the bathroom. In a year plus he has learned to not go in his crate. The last time anybody trusted him, he was not trustworthy. Apparently difficult housebreaking is a characteristic of the breed.

How can we make it in a hotel like this, until we get an apartment? And how can we make it in an apartment without a yard? He cannot spend his life in a crate.

A playpen is an idea.

I will work with him over the next couple of months to see how far we get. And then there is M to consider. He has very set ideas about animals. Being from Mexico there are cultural differences.

We do want to make this trip. Our lives are important. I need to get to the next stage of my life. The animals are important but I am too.

Maybe things will work out well enough with my son, that he can live here with the animals for the first few months until we get settled. Except M has said this is not an option. But that was then.

We will see how things work out.

I will watch for your posts, SWOT. Thank you for your support around my son. It made all the difference, SWOT.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
He must have felt very desperate to fit in somewhere. Is Princess Chinese, too?
Korean. But he was very interested in his culture and she has never really been.

I have no idea what he was thinking. Neither does she. She has always maintained he is too private for anybody to know him. And I think that's true. Right before everything hit the fan he said to me, "You really think I'm nice, but I'm not nice."

I didn't know, as she wasn't sure (Princess) whether he was being serious or not, but I sensed he was being serious, at least partly.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
She sounds extremely strong, with great instincts and very well adjusted, SWOT.
Actually, she is inside. but at the time this all happened she was drug using and he never used a drug or drank in his life, but he liked to hang with her because "I'm shy and you're not so it brings me attention."
Actually, Princess was and is very shy, but not on drugs!!!!
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
We do want to make this trip. Our lives are important. I need to get to the next stage of my life. The animals are important but I am too.
Yep you are VERY important. Maybe a rescue will take the dog. They take animals with behavioral issues.
I am happy to support you. I do not see you as somebody who can live without this grown child. Some people need to work out how to fit grown children into their lives. Some can just abandon them after enough an d I get it. But I don't think I could either...I did not abandon Goneboy. He left. I never would have.

You need to feel good about what you decide to do with that relationship. As long as you are in charge of it, you'll be ok ;)
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
"You really think I'm nice, but I'm not nice."
This is concerning, SWOT.

He sounds like somebody that may have a secret life. That he has to be rigid because he fears loss of control of whatever impulses he may be suppressing.

Thank goodness that Princess is so well-balanced and sensible or you could have had a terrible problem. Imagine if she did not have such good boundaries and sense of self...and had not checked him so quickly and firmly.

Just imagine, how horrible it could have gotten.

Goneboy sounds like he needs the structure he has now. The rigid and controlling wife and the presense of a homogeneous culture, strict community that does not tolerate deviation and difference. He needs that control. He may lack it himself. And there may be scary things buried beneath the surface.

Looking at it this way, it may be a blessing that he did not fully trust or open up in your family. You or anybody could not have dealt with what lurked below. There are birth children who hide from their family their true natures and feelings. And then, one day, they surprise everybody and do something that nobody expected or ever could expect.

I for one am grateful that that did not happen.

SWOT, Maybe Romy has reactive attachment disorder. And that is why he is peeing and pooping all over the house, whenever he gets a chance.. A joke. I just read your post on Tamlkt's thread.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Back to Goneboy.

Princess says she never knew him, an amazing comment as she did so much with him and spent time with him. He was her big brother and she adored him. Bart, not so much. He didn't pay any attention to her and they have had their problems. But Goneboy she worshipped and he took her to parties and affairs and to visit his friends and all of his girlfriends before his current wife tried very hard to get on her good side because he talked well about Princess to the point that the women felt that if she didn't like them, he would dump them. He was and still is a VERY good looking man. I know the stereotypical Asian is seen as not good looking, but that is so untrue. And Goneboy was and is extremely handsome so, shy or not, he had a few girlfriends and they played up to Princess.

Goneboy's current wife was very dominant, easy to do to him, and she wanted him to herself. She was not young...mid thirties, but she would plop herself on his lap in front of all of us and I kind of thought it was a bit inappropriate. She would hug him tightly like s he was marking him as hers. Jumper did that with her boyfriends, but she was so young. I just...I don't know. It was odd to do that in front of your future mother-in-law unless you didn't care about the impression you made. I barely knew her. He shortly thereafter asked Princess to give back the emergency key she had had to his house and talked about how things were going to change because he was getting married a nd the bible says the wife comes first. No way to argue that. It was fine. It was planning for the wedding where things got a bit touchy and he was pulling back in leaps and bounds.

Exactly why or who initiated it, him or her? Nobody knows, not Princess for sure. She would call me and cry because Goneboy wouldn't talk to her when she called. That started it. But mistakes were made on my part here. I am not sure it could have gone any differently, but we were all so puzzled that it didn't go differently as we tried to find out what was wrong and he did not want to talk to us about it or anything.

After the wedding, that was it. He didn't even talk to ex for three years. We don't know why. And ex doesn't k now why they started talking to him again, although it is on a limited basis and on his terms only. Maybe it is because they go to the same church and church is extremely important to Goneboy. But that is just a guess. Nobody will ever know. Nobody ever knew him. Princess says the young boy with the friendly smile who charmed everyone was not who he is/was. But she doesn't know who he is/was.

I asked her if they ever talked about the family. She replied that he only talked about his interests and showed her things he did or took her to places where he wanted to go. He never asked about her. He never talked about anyone except himself. I didn't know this until she told me yesterday. She did not say it in a mean way. Nothing she said was spoken in a mean way. "It was just all about him," she said, with a shrug.

Attachment problems. He did know about them because we spoke of them and he knew what they were, although he did not share what he thought about that.

I do know he wanted to become very wealthy and without him saying a nything about why that was, I know it was to show everyone that he was a worthwhile person, not an orphan. He certainly achieved extreme financial success. He has his own company, a house with underground pool, and his older child is in a very exclusive prep school. I wonder if he is a good father. His sons are young. If they rebel and refuse to be Christians, what will he do?

I can't say. I don't know him and I guess I never did. It is easy for me to give personality rundowns on my other adult children, but not him. I don't know what makes him tick. If Princess doesn't know, our family will never understand what went wrong there for sure. There was no big fight or one event that we can point to. Nothing so great that it is obvious. He was treated well as a little one a nd my ex thought he hung the moon...no emotional or physical abuse and he had friends and did well in school. No inkling. So it has to be let go.

I just assume six years old is often just too old for a kid from another country to be uprooted to people who look and talk differently from him and consider them his new family. I am sure that is a big part of this.

At any rate, those are my "Great Thoughts" for the Fourth of July. We are thinking of going to the fireworks after all. We can pretty much walk to a parking lot where you can see them well. We are not ones to want to sit by the river with the crows. Crowds bug me and bugs bug me!!! And the river is swarming w ith both! The bugs are the worst, even with insect repellent. We only went to the big fest on the river once.

We're going to invite Sonic, but he was snever a Fourth of July fan. As a young child he was terrified of the loud booms (autism) and I stayed home with him while my husband took Jumper and a few friends to see the fireworks. I was never too sad to stay home and not get bug bitten because even away from the river, well, the misquitoes are nasty here.

I am still pumped because I spent so much time with Buddha Baby. She is a miracle; a beautiful child whose parents dote on her...no daycare...so dearly loved and so loving...looking so much like her beautiful mother. I c ould eat her up.

Anyhow, BBL!!!!
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Goneboy sounds like he needs the structure he has now. The rigid and controlling wife and the presense of a homogeneous culture, strict community that does not tolerate deviation and difference. He needs that control. He may lack it himself. And there may be scary things buried beneath the surface.
Yes, Copa, you are perceptive. He may well have a dark side, even if he doesn't act on it. Yet he may. Nobody knows him. I really don't think he has acted on anything negative, really, but he is such a puzzle...we have no idea what is in his head.

Princess, even on drugs, was always very sensible and she knew what sh e was doing was dumb and self-destructive and I thank the Lord (my Higher Power) that this forcefulness inside of her allowed her to quit using drugs and even smoking cigarettes. Buddha Baby is very feisty and jolly and reminds me so much of her precious mother. I cried when I had to leave today. But I'm a crybaby...lol.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
but she would plop herself on his lap in front of all of us and I kind of thought it was a bit inappropriate. She would hug him tightly like she was marking him as hers.
This is a sign of insecurity I think. Very strange for a woman in her mid 30s. I will sometimes cling to M and I am in my 60s. But I can feel insecure, I do not deny it. Sitting on his lap does sound like behavior of a person who is out of touch with what is appropriate.

Let us hope that they both got what they were looking for, and that they have enough strength and flexibility to parent their children. It sounds, though, that they may not. But what can you do? Not one thing.
Maybe it is because they go to the same church and church is extremely important to Goneboy.
That sounds right, SWOT. Goneboy sounds like somebody to whom appearance is everything. He would resist doing something that appeared incorrect to others. Thus he had to at least go through the motions of behaving appropriately with your Ex. To keep up appearances.
Princess says the young boy with the friendly smile who charmed everyone was not who he is/was. But she doesn't know who he is/was.
SWOT, he may not know either, who he is. He may not want to know and be afraid to know. Afraid of what might be there, that would overwhelm his carefully crafted life, with all of the trappings, of what looks right. And that is just fine for him.
he only talked about his interests and showed her things he did or took her to places where he wanted to go. He never asked about her. He never talked about anyone except himself.
That makes sense, SWOT. He is out of touch even with himself. He only knows himself by what he has crafted, external to himself. As if you know your house because there is a big tree outside, and a flower bed next to the driveway. But you do not want to go inside. Or maybe it is vacant, except a bed and a table. He does not want to know more about himself. Or perhaps not much is there. He is afraid to find out.

It sounds as if this external self he has created is everything to him, because it is EVERYTHING.

If someone fears themselves, they fear knowing anybody else. They cannot know anybody else. They do not want to be touched emotionally. They do not want feelings. To care, most of all.

And I can see why he would want to not know anything at all about Princess. Especially if he had feelings of any sort about her. He would not want to let himself feel anything at all, and be careful not to know anything it all. After all I am sure he never forgets she rejected him. He may feel ashamed and exposed about it, still. Or angry, even.

No. It is all better left tapped down. So nothing can threaten to spill over. Because he knows that he could not deal with it. And maybe nobody else can, either.

His is a sad story, too. He had a chance with you guys, but it seems he could not go further with it than he has. There are birth children, too, like this, you know that.

I am remembering about the son of the woman Psychoanalyst who was my friend. Remember, the friend that liked to be the bearer of bad news. Particularly to me. She had two boys. Her eldest, Andy, would be now 50 or so. Time flies. I knew him first when he was 16.

He was the most outgoing and boisterous and warm young man. A little awkward, but likable. Had trouble finding his way as a young adult. Trying one thing, then another, and another. There is family money.

He knew a girl. It was platonic. The parents wanted to get her married off well. She was high strung and difficult and controlling. He fell into it. And never looked back.

He has never worked since. He is a house husband and his wife is an investment banker. He raised the kids, does the cooking. He is completely controlled by the wife. To the point of having limited his relationship with his mother these last 25 years, because his wife wants him to. His mother can be controlling and intense. But he loved his mother.

I cannot imagine having lived a life like this controlled and circumscribed by the demands and limits of a mate. M wants the best for me. In all ways. He wants the best for my son. He subordinates his needs to the extent that he can and is willing, to further ours. So that our relationship works. So that we all work as a family together.

He is limitless in how much hope he has and his willingness to keep trying, to persevere. And he has no reason what so ever to have hope and faith that the right thing will happen. He has lost nearly all that he ever has had. Hope and faith to him are based upon principle. To do the right thing and to hope for the best.

In that way you and he are alike SWOT. You were not given one thing to ease your way in life, to become a good mother or wife. But you did it with grit and commitment. Based upon your character and your values. Which you, like Cedar, chose as a little girl. With nobody's help at all.

Your husband I know is like M. He may balk at one thing or another but he supports you. He wants what is best for everybody. Not just what makes him comfortable.

I know I sound naive here, but I really do not get people who take the easy way out.

That look for personal security and pleasure, only, and give up on the rest of it. The only way to understand it is weakness like the young man I have described, or fear, like Goneboy. Sorry to moralize.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
I can see why he would want to not know anything at all about Princess. Especially if he had feelings of any sort about her. And if he still remembers that she rejected him.
I agree with everything you said. Appearnces were EVERYTHING to him. Money, power, prestige...absolutely. I don't know his core self and I think he knows it better now, but did not know it for a long time. And it may be under developed since he did spent six years in an orphanage a nd that is nowhere for any child to spend six years. Your son was much younger than Goneboy when you got him and that does matter. He got out sooner. I believe you two bonded. Goneboy and most of the kids from Goneboy's country were at least six and some were ten and one was fifteen. It is hard to bond at that age.

More than anything, I think you hit the nail on t he head with Goneboy and Princess. They were nothing alike personally. They had little in common other than both were smart. But they displayed it in different ways. But Princess was extremely pretty. Boys really liked her. I'm sure his friends commented. I wonder if he rejected her because she was not willing to be his wife and he'd found somebody who was also very pretty and willing to be his wife. Because, in my heart, I think he meant what he said to Princess. And it probably would have been legal. I don't know about that though. Glad I didn't have to find out.

The church bit is different though. Yes, Goneboy liked appearances and looking good, but he truly is extremely extremely extremely religious. He belonged to that group that met in a stadium...forgot what they called themselves. All men. He believes the man rules. No divorce. No sex before marriage. Trust me, he claimed to be a virgin before marriage and she did too and I believe both, although both could be lying. I don't think so. Once Goneboy got into the Bible he was a walking Evangelist and tried to convert everyone, including me. And to him, a Catholic, a Lutheran, anyone with a denomination is NOT a christian. I'm not sure I get that, but I think it's because they don't follow the bible closely enough and do unnecessary rituals, in his opinion. He was quite devout...which means he was quite inflexible and closeminded. You can't believe the bible word-for-word and have an open mind about anything. He had a big fight with Princess when she was living with him and dating her SO. He yelled at both of them, because they were doing the deed (he didn't catch them, but he knew they were, "You think you know what love is, but you're just screwing each other! That''s not love! That's wrong." He called them both nasty names and Princess left with her SO. Although Goneboy claimed they'd break up, well, it's been eleven years. They've had ups and downs, but they're together and SO is proving to be a great father and both have grown up so much.

At any rate, that's how Goneboy thinks. You can't have sex before marriage so you most certainly can't live with somebody before marriage. And that's very strict thinking, even for a christian.If, say, you claimed to be a Christian but were living with your lover, he would tell you that you are sinning and are not a true Christian (sigh). He teaches classes at his church.

One more note that really made me think Goneboy was right when he said "I'm not really nice" is that my father had been not feeling well and he really cared about Goneboy. I told my ex to have Goneboy call his grandfather. My father had NOTHING to do with his wedding or anything that he was upset about, but ex did talk to Goneboy and even reminding Goneboy that he was old and who knows how long he'd live, Goneboy never called him. Hasn't ever called him.

Maybe he has put his entire life behind him to be Chinese? He has dropped most of his Caucasian and black friends and most are Chinese. He has visisted both China and Hong Kong more than once and has seen the orphanage he lived in, which I hope was healing.

Copa, most of this is just speculation. This was somebody who was very inward. His behavior was stellar. He did not disrespect anybody. He did the right thing. Then perhaps he got tired of being so good. It doesn't make sense because that coincided with his launch into extreme christianity. However...he also has said that his family is that of Believers and that his father is Jesus. So it is impossible to know what drives him. At this point in my life, I am happy and contented and have been Oblivion with "them" for a long time so I'm doing really well. I am very happy with my husband and my four loving children and my grands and, of course, my doggies ;) I don't know how Goneboy would fit into our lives if he came back. Everyone has pretty much written him off. I don't expect him back and really don't know what would happen if he came back. I don't know him. I never did. I wish I had. I loved him with all my heart. I still love him. But I don't know him.

Make sense?

I think I'll skip the fireworks. I'm so tired I sense an early night in mly own bed. I'm always happy to get home to my own place after I've been gone, no matter how short a time.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
"You think you know what love is, but you're just screwing each other! That''s not love!
SWOT, he was jealous. He could not stand the thought that he wanted her and could not have her, and another man could. Jealousy. And need for complete control.
I told my ex to have Goneboy call his grandfather. Goneboy never called him. Hasn't ever called him.
But look at the situation of my nieces as my mother was dying. My mother diapered them, fed them, loved them their whole lives. And still she was as if nothing to them. Nobody deserves that.

They are not attachment disordered.

I cannot get over my feelings about this. I mean I almost have CPTSD about what happened around my mother's death, let alone the process of her dying.

We diapered her. We managed her feeding tube. We tended her when she was nothing but skin and bone. When she would aspirate and could not breathe, I monitored her oxygen and called the ambulance over and over. I was with her at her last breath. M washed her body. I could not. I kissed her cold face and lips.

I am totally unsuited to do what I did. Completely inadequate to have done so. But I did.

Nothing I went through is worse than the fact that my mother was rejected by her daughter and her granddaughters who she loved, as she lay dying. Betrayed after a lifetime. They were the close ones.

A daughter who felt completely at peace with herself and the world as she sought revenge on a woman who was dying. Adult young women who had sent greeting cards filled with love and kisses and I miss you. That meant nothing at all.

Looked at next to this duplicity and cruelty, the inability of Goneboy to take a step outside of his comfort zone, is not so bad.

I believe that you would be surprised to learn how very limited he is. Actually, I am limited in this way, too, now that I think about it.

I have a paternal uncle. He is 90 and the only living sibling of my father. He lives with his wife in this town where I live now.

After my parents divorced, my father's family did not do much to keep track of us. Actually nothing at all. I felt rejected by them, really.

I live now in the town where my father was born and grew up.

I lived here in this town once before in the nineties. The only thing this uncle did then was to every Christmas bring over some shortbread. We are Scots.

Of course I understood that he celebrated holidays with his family. And that we would have been fifth wheels. After all he did not really know us. Forty years of separation. My son was 5 or 6. He was hyper. I get that it would have been too much.

But I felt excluded. Again. My son and I were alone. We needed family.

If I am honest here, I would have never felt comfortable with them. We are so, so different. And there is so much water under the bridge. But another rejection hurt.

I have lived here this time for 6 years. I have been unable to go over to this uncle's house one time. I have not called him. When I see him I am loving. I hug him. I am warm. But I have not reached out to him. I have no ill will.

I have been unable to get over the feelings about my dead father. That is part of it. Or the feelings of exclusion that go back more than half of a century.

Despite the fact that I am the adult in the room, now. I do not choose to not go. But I do not choose either, to go.

And so I have felt guilty for all of these 6 years. But have not been able, still, to overcome what has held me back from doing the right thing, the correct thing. And he is 90 years now.

Sometimes hurts run so deep, that it dominates all else.

So, I guess I understand Goneboy in this situation.

Sometimes we are not big enough or strong enough to do the right thing. Even when we want to.

But my sister and her children, that was different. That was the purposeful inflicting of pain on somebody who loved you. And do do it for eternity. Without a chance for a do over. To make it so that somebody who loved you go to their eternal end without a goodbye. Without a word. Without a kiss. To me that is to torture somebody.

I wonder if she wanted to torture me. Or my mother. Or the both of us. Or if it really was that she was too weak and afraid despite her bluster and self-importance and arrogance and sense of superiority.

I will never ever understand or get over it. I have been wounded forever by it. I have Chronic PTSD because of it and a thousand other things, this is true. But this is among the worst of them.

Because it was evil. It is evil. And I do not understand evil. Weakness I understand. Evil no.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I wonder if he rejected her because she was not willing to be his wife
SWOT, I just read your post again and I had missed the first time the import of this comment.

Of course this is it. He rejected her absolutely because she refused him. That explains his extreme and inappropriate judgment of her with her SO. He has to reject her because he cannot tolerate his feelings that probably run the gamut: rage, desire, and shame.
Because, in my heart, I think he meant what he said to Princess.
I do too. He would have acted on it if she had allowed it. Thank G-d she did not not. He was very wrong. If he had feelings for her he should have first spoken to you or his father. It could have been a horrible disaster. I think it was a betrayal of the family. Even in this he chose for himself to the exclusion of everybody else. And he maintained this attitude and ran with it.

Still, you did a good, good job with him. He is extremely successful. He has met his goals such as they are. He got the kind of life that he thinks he needs and is maintaining it. In my extended family I am not the only adult child that chose to live apart. I have a cousin too, who separated completely from his foo for 40 or 50 years. Nobody knew where he was, even if he was alive.

If I may ask how old were they both at this time, Princess and Goneby, when he declared himself?

Goneboy sounds like a one trick pony. He may lack the capacity to have divided loyalties, to manage feelings about both his nuclear family and his family with you, at the same time. He compartmentalizes. One at a time. That is his limit.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Copa, I do think he has attachment disorder. I really do. He was six before he had a family at all and there is just no way he had no attachment issues.

He often said, "I am who I am because of me. My formative years were before I came here." He did not say it in a mean way and he is 100% right. Imagine getting your son at six rather than almost two. That's a lot of time. Ages infacy-3 are so important.

We did nothing to make him successful. HE did it all, starting very young when he saved every penny of his baby sitting money and taught himself how to build a computer. Financial success in a child does not equal success by the parents. I take no credit here a nd ex did nothing to spur on his incredible urge to achieve. The drive was in him. He was a brilliant young man and, if the social workers had been on their toes, which they weren't, would have found a more appropriate home for him. He gravitated to doctors and lawyers (and children of them) and computer wizards. He was placed into an average family with down-home values and only ex had gone to college (and he was really only average or slightly above in intelligence). I blame the system for not doing a better job of matching these older kids with families. We did not know him, however THEY did.

At the same time that Goneboy became available for adoption, from the same country (this was a new program) there was a ten year old boy who was very shy and we asked about him. We met him at a picnic for families of kids from that country. I felt an instant connection to him, but his own family said he would not open up to or talk to them. It bothered them. Goneboy was talking to them a mile a minute. The father owned a company and was telling him about it and, even at twelve, he was soooooooo interested.

Also, Bart and Goneboy had so much competition going on since they were the same age. I look back and wonder why they placed somebody our son's age with us. Even other social workers are surprised. Yes, we expressed an interest in Goneboy, on a cute picture and a short blurb in an adoption magazine, but social workers have no trouble saying "no." They got a ton of calls from all over the world about adopting him. Why didn't they match better? We would have done much better with the shy boy who was not Bart's age. He is one of the few kids from that country who really has not been a behavior problem in any way, at least the last we heard.

But there are no guarantees. Even biological children are often not a good fit in their families. Look at us...lol!

I think Goneboy kind of looked down on us and that's ok. He wanted a powerful, rich, successful family and he got just us. We were a good match for our other adopted kids, but he would have done better in a very intellectually challenging home with a harddriving father. To this day, he is a Type A personality, very driven, always at work, always wanting that extra dollar. That's who he is now and that is what he wanted and needed for a family and he got us.

I don't blame him or have the anger at him or trauma that I had with FOO. Anybody who spends six years in an orphanage and then has no control over his life as he is flown to another country and told "These are your parents" and is already a precocious six years old is going to have issues and bonding problems. WE should have thought harder and said, "Hey, this kid is the same age as our only child. It's probably not a good match." But we fell in love with his impish smile and we didn't think that. We thought "Bart will love having a brother his age. He likes to be with other kids."

It didn't work out that way.

To this day, Bart will say, and HAS said when asked, "Mom, I had a great childhood. You only made one mistake with me. Goneboy. You should have gotten a child who was not my age." He says it without rancor, but he did not like acquiring a twin.

I just don't think Goneboy could think of us as his family. Princess was with us since babyhood and definitely did and does and Goneboy was her brother, not somebody she had a romantic interest in!!!!

Goneboy is an angry young man inside, but it is hard to blame him for anything that he has done. I can't imagine the trauma of being shipped from one country to another at his age and being literally thrown into a family of people w ho didn't look like him that he didn't know. He cried at night at first. I was so desperate I found his birthmother for him and she wrote to us a lot at first. He kept her picture with him. Birthmother kept telling us to visit her and, trust me, we would have to calm his tears, but we did not have enough money to travel that far. After she kept asking us and we had to explain that we couldn't, she stopped writing. Probably broke her heart too.

He is in touch with her now and I'm glad. At least, he is FB friends with her and his half-biological sisters. I feel he is probably more whole today because he received some resolution. I can not blame him for not being able to bond to a family with how it occurred. The majority of the kids from his country did not do well. Most are not even doing as well as he is. I always tell people who want to adopt to adopt t he youngest child they can.

Anyhow, that's the story as far as I know it. Again, a lot of it is speculation since Goneboy doesn't share. I wonder if he talks to his wife, but that is between them. I wish him well and love him.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I was so desperate I found his birthmother for him and she wrote to us a lot at first. He kept her picture with him.
To me, SWOT, you did right by this child.

There was no way with his beginning that pain could have been avoided. That you did whatever you could do to help him through the transition speaks volumes. Supporting him to connect to his mother was kind. Who could have afforded a trip to China for the family? Not me. His birth mother dropped the ball by stopping communication. Of course the circumstances of separation were painful. Life is. That is no reason to drop the ball.

Now with my stories, again. My grandmother never saw her mother again in her life after she was 11 years old. She was sent away to be a servant to a family to St. Petersburg Russia, and with her family's help later immigrated to Canada. Her life was always unhappy. This is the life for many of us.

I had a friend whose parents were of the highest strata in China, before the Maoist Revolution. Her father worked in the royal palace. She was sent as a child to the USA for school. The revolution came and she could not return. She had nobody here except the family who sponsored her. Her parents were sent to forced labor and prison. She did not see them again until her early forties.

Life happens. Even to children. Some make it. Others don't. Goneboy made it. However much you say it had nothing to do with you guys, it did.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
He was blessed with a really high IQ. That helps. He had no disabilities. His birthmother is a working executive and his bio. siblings are college grads. I believe in DNA. Plus he was driven to show he was more than an orphan. I commend him for that. I do not take the credit.

Would we have gone to his place of birth, which, by the way, is not China? YES! I just wanted to stop his tears. He had this obsessive thought that his birthmother had been killed in a car accident and it broke my heart. I was quite willing to put aside the fear of having this chld meet his birthmother to stop his sadness. I loved him dearly. I just wanted him to be happy.

I don't think we raised him badly. I think we were a poor match and that overseas social services could have done better. He was treated well, given every c hance in life, and ate and dressed well. Our house was the house on the block that everyone hung around at. Sometimes we had kid's bikes from our walkway halfway down our block. I made our house a fun place to be for all kids and I stayed at home. I drove all the kids to and from practices.

Bart enjoyed it a lot more than Goneboy did though, although Goneboy did like it. But Goneboy would play with the kids for a few hours then take off to a friend's house. His friends were mainly sons of doctors, lawyers, business owners, andll computer wizards and he spent as much time with the parents (fathers) as the kids.

He did not get into a ny trouble. Trouble was "a waste of time" to him.

But he was cold inside, although I think he tried to be different. Princess calls him "robot" claiming he has no emotions and I see that as part of attachment disorder, as did the psychologist who only saw adoptive families. There is no way a six year old adoptee would not have attachment problems unless he was loved for six years and his parents tragically died in a car crash. An orphanage is no place for a child to grow up. They don't get the attention one-on-one that every child needs. They aren't touched enough, held enough, loved enough, given enough attention.


Goneboy did well and I hope that living in his culture and having the respect of others who are high achievers has made him happy. It is not his fault that he did not bond. And I wish him only good things. I would never turn him away...I can't after what happened to me...but I am content without him and used to the way things are now so he needn't come back to make my life complete either.

It is interesting that he also is a Hep B carrier. So many are. He is very low level and since he does not drink (against his religion) I'm sure his liver is doing well. He takes care of his health and basically lives a successful upper class suburban life so I don't have to worry about him...I know he's good.
 
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