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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 229818" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Another thought about only acting out during certian seasons - I'd be looking at ALL influences during that time, not just the weather. If it's a time of less stucture, for example (such as during summer holidays, when he is either shipped off to camp, stays with his father more, doesn't stay with his father more) that there could be any one of a number of explanations. Sometimes a kid needs routine so much that he builds it into his own day surreptitiously, and such a kid may do better at school then let it all hang out at home, lashing out at everyone. Or maybe he holds it together at home but you get cllas all the time from school - but yet when school is out he misses his friends. Maybe he behaves worse in winter because it also coincides with his dad wanting to see him over the holidays (andlack of structure form his dad alone, could be causing your son some anxiety in some way).</p><p></p><p>Read the book. I'm currently re-reading it (I never read the third edition properly, I feel I memorised the 2nd edition!) and I'm finding more thigns I have been quietly trying to live, now reinforced in the book. One thing I found in my reading this morning that I treasure is something I dared to tell a new member a few months ago, and she got so cranky with me (I think an older member did also) because I think they missed my point - and here I find it confirmed.</p><p></p><p>What I said was, "sometimes you have to change your mindset towards your child."</p><p>What I mean in this was, sometimes you need to try to turn around your thinking towards your child from "I wish he wasn't such a deliberately defiant, obstinate, infuriating person, I'm certain he's delibreately being defiant," to "somewhere in there is a kid who wants to be good but doesn't know how, because he just doesn't know how to transition form what he wants to do, to what other people want him to do."</p><p>And yes, it's perfectly OK to acknowledge that this is infuriating. But too often, the more you view your child as a creature being deliberately infuriating, deliberately defiant, this changes the way you deal with him and if he really is struggling with poor social maturity, then chances are your attitude to him (while very understandable) could be making the problem worse. When you change how you see him, you automatically change how you deal with him and this can bring immediate improvement. And because the change IN YOU was automatic, you may even wonder why he suddnely seems to be behaving so much better. Or if he is not, you may wonder why it no longer seems to bother you so much. And the more you fail to be bothered so much, the more his behaviour is likely to improve.</p><p></p><p>The trouble with what I said is, it seems like I'm blaming the parent. And I'm not. I'm also speaking form my own experience.</p><p></p><p>I had a gem of a mother. She had her faults, sometimes I tell my best friend things form my childhood and she is horrified. But at the time, what my mother did was often better than what a lot of other parents did. However, she also would have made the samew mistakes I did, because I based my parenting on her - basically firm, strict, no-nonsense and the more the child was difficult, the more I micro-managed in order to train him to do things the way I wanted them done. And the worse the behaviour became, because while my other kids were great (comparatively), difficult child 3 was getting really difficult. The most patient teacher he ever had, met me at the school gate one day and said, "You MUST get him assessed for Oppositional Defiant Disorder!"</p><p></p><p>I now understand why this was said. Because for kids like this, they quickly learn that to try to maintain SOME control over their environment (and to avoid having to transition when they have extreme difficulty doing so) they rapidly get into the pattenr of automatic refusal. YOu say black, they say white. Out of habit, out of a need to oppose because too often, you want him to do something he doesn't want to do (stop playing the games, come have dinner, go have your bath, go to bed, do your homework).</p><p></p><p>The best way to win against your child, is for your child to not know there is a contest, and for your child to want what you want. Hence - you change your mindset, because your child can't. Then as you connect with your child and help lead him in the direction he needs to go (think - recalcitrant puppy learning to walk on a leash) slowly he learns to go with you because he wants to. YOU are the parent, you already have the social maturity he lacks. That's why it is us, the parents, who have to make the change. Not because we are wrong, but because for our children, it hasn't been sufficiently RIGHT.</p><p></p><p>I think I need to get 2nd edition out of the library again, but maybe someone can tell me - is there a lot cut out of this 3rd edition? I'm finding it a much easier read than I remember (and I did devour it fast the first time). But it seems to be more a summary, less waffle. Or maybe it's you lot, you've taugt me so much over the last few years that it's making more sense to me now.</p><p></p><p>Who cares? I'm still getting a lot out of the book, even after preaching about it here to so many people in the meantime!</p><p></p><p>Just shows, I shouldn't get too smug about my own parenting... my mother taught me well, but I've had to go back and reinvent the wheel. I just wish I could call her up and talk about it with her, I know she would have been interested.</p><p></p><p>Diasbox, you have a 15 year old daughter you describe asnow doing well, this despite significant depression. That screams at me - you are a success as a parent. In many, many ways. It's just that W needs something different. The fact that you're looking for answers says a great deal more good things about you as a parent. So don't let anyone tell you you are a bad parent. But please, don't get offended with me when I suggest a change in mindset. It's not the same thing at all. (I suspect you changed your mindset to your daughter, when you realised she had a significant depression problem. That's what I'm talking about.)</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 229818, member: 1991"] Another thought about only acting out during certian seasons - I'd be looking at ALL influences during that time, not just the weather. If it's a time of less stucture, for example (such as during summer holidays, when he is either shipped off to camp, stays with his father more, doesn't stay with his father more) that there could be any one of a number of explanations. Sometimes a kid needs routine so much that he builds it into his own day surreptitiously, and such a kid may do better at school then let it all hang out at home, lashing out at everyone. Or maybe he holds it together at home but you get cllas all the time from school - but yet when school is out he misses his friends. Maybe he behaves worse in winter because it also coincides with his dad wanting to see him over the holidays (andlack of structure form his dad alone, could be causing your son some anxiety in some way). Read the book. I'm currently re-reading it (I never read the third edition properly, I feel I memorised the 2nd edition!) and I'm finding more thigns I have been quietly trying to live, now reinforced in the book. One thing I found in my reading this morning that I treasure is something I dared to tell a new member a few months ago, and she got so cranky with me (I think an older member did also) because I think they missed my point - and here I find it confirmed. What I said was, "sometimes you have to change your mindset towards your child." What I mean in this was, sometimes you need to try to turn around your thinking towards your child from "I wish he wasn't such a deliberately defiant, obstinate, infuriating person, I'm certain he's delibreately being defiant," to "somewhere in there is a kid who wants to be good but doesn't know how, because he just doesn't know how to transition form what he wants to do, to what other people want him to do." And yes, it's perfectly OK to acknowledge that this is infuriating. But too often, the more you view your child as a creature being deliberately infuriating, deliberately defiant, this changes the way you deal with him and if he really is struggling with poor social maturity, then chances are your attitude to him (while very understandable) could be making the problem worse. When you change how you see him, you automatically change how you deal with him and this can bring immediate improvement. And because the change IN YOU was automatic, you may even wonder why he suddnely seems to be behaving so much better. Or if he is not, you may wonder why it no longer seems to bother you so much. And the more you fail to be bothered so much, the more his behaviour is likely to improve. The trouble with what I said is, it seems like I'm blaming the parent. And I'm not. I'm also speaking form my own experience. I had a gem of a mother. She had her faults, sometimes I tell my best friend things form my childhood and she is horrified. But at the time, what my mother did was often better than what a lot of other parents did. However, she also would have made the samew mistakes I did, because I based my parenting on her - basically firm, strict, no-nonsense and the more the child was difficult, the more I micro-managed in order to train him to do things the way I wanted them done. And the worse the behaviour became, because while my other kids were great (comparatively), difficult child 3 was getting really difficult. The most patient teacher he ever had, met me at the school gate one day and said, "You MUST get him assessed for Oppositional Defiant Disorder!" I now understand why this was said. Because for kids like this, they quickly learn that to try to maintain SOME control over their environment (and to avoid having to transition when they have extreme difficulty doing so) they rapidly get into the pattenr of automatic refusal. YOu say black, they say white. Out of habit, out of a need to oppose because too often, you want him to do something he doesn't want to do (stop playing the games, come have dinner, go have your bath, go to bed, do your homework). The best way to win against your child, is for your child to not know there is a contest, and for your child to want what you want. Hence - you change your mindset, because your child can't. Then as you connect with your child and help lead him in the direction he needs to go (think - recalcitrant puppy learning to walk on a leash) slowly he learns to go with you because he wants to. YOU are the parent, you already have the social maturity he lacks. That's why it is us, the parents, who have to make the change. Not because we are wrong, but because for our children, it hasn't been sufficiently RIGHT. I think I need to get 2nd edition out of the library again, but maybe someone can tell me - is there a lot cut out of this 3rd edition? I'm finding it a much easier read than I remember (and I did devour it fast the first time). But it seems to be more a summary, less waffle. Or maybe it's you lot, you've taugt me so much over the last few years that it's making more sense to me now. Who cares? I'm still getting a lot out of the book, even after preaching about it here to so many people in the meantime! Just shows, I shouldn't get too smug about my own parenting... my mother taught me well, but I've had to go back and reinvent the wheel. I just wish I could call her up and talk about it with her, I know she would have been interested. Diasbox, you have a 15 year old daughter you describe asnow doing well, this despite significant depression. That screams at me - you are a success as a parent. In many, many ways. It's just that W needs something different. The fact that you're looking for answers says a great deal more good things about you as a parent. So don't let anyone tell you you are a bad parent. But please, don't get offended with me when I suggest a change in mindset. It's not the same thing at all. (I suspect you changed your mindset to your daughter, when you realised she had a significant depression problem. That's what I'm talking about.) Marg [/QUOTE]
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