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The Watercooler
husband went drinking.
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 57600" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Don't try to get him to open up. Just because you know that's what he needs, doesn't help. HE has to realise it and many people (not just men, although I'm tempted to say mostly men) never do.</p><p></p><p>The behaviour that was modelled for him, was big, strong, tough. Abusive. THAT'S how to be a man. NEVER admit to weakness unless you can use it for emotional blackmail - a sort of, "Don't you complain to me, I put up with far worse than you do."</p><p></p><p>As women, we tend to talk more, we talk to resolve problems. Men are almost the opposite - to a lot of men, talking about it makes it more real and therefore more of a problem. I know this sounds sexist, I'm sorry, but there it is. There are always exceptions to the rule but the trend is there.</p><p></p><p>It's a bloke thing. husband used to do it. he'd talk to me, say he was worried about this or that, medically, and ask me to make an appointment to see the doctor. Then he would cancel because he felt better. This happened over and over. Then he would talk to me again about how tired he felt, or how much his joints hurt, or whatever. So I would say, "If you're worried, see the doctor. I'm not a doctor, what do you want me to do? You have my sympathy but I can't fix it."</p><p>So once again, I made an appointment for him to see the doctor. I made it for a Saturday morning, so husband wouldn't cancel because he was too busy at work. husband still was concerned about his health and kept the appointment. I went too. That's how I know what happened next.</p><p></p><p>We got in to see the doctor. "What seems to be the trouble?" the doctor asked.</p><p>"I don't know, nothing, really. It's just Marg who's wanted me to come and see you, I feel fine, really."</p><p>I could have killed him. As we drove home (the memory of the doctor's smug, condescending smile burning on my retina) I asked him why he had done that - why he made me look like a fool, purely for the sake of his precious ego. </p><p>husband was shamefaced. "I really don't know why I did that," he apologised. "I just don't know - I should have told him about the tiredness and the joint pain - I know we need to find out what is wrong."</p><p>I still refused to make any more appointments, though. I made sure husband made the appointment, and to ensure he did, any time husband tried to talk to me about not feeling well, I replied with, "You know what to do. Don't ask me to fix it. Don't complain, and then do nothing."</p><p></p><p>That was quite a few years ago and we still don't know what is wrong, apart from a hereditary tendency to early arthritis, but he DID 'fess up to the doctor for which I was grateful.</p><p></p><p>Since then, whenever someone repeatedly complains to me about their health but never does anything about it, I get to a point where I tell them I am not buying into their little drama. "Either stop complaining, or do something."</p><p></p><p>They can't have it both ways.</p><p></p><p>Like you, I will help out if someone has pain - want a cold compress? A hot one? But I offer no help if they're only going to use their pain as a weapon, or a competitive tool. I only care when the problem is genuine.</p><p></p><p>And on the point of comparison - I learned, back when I was doing a lot of volunteer work for a charity, that it is wrong to compare your situation with someone else's. People still do it with me - they say, "Goodness, how can you cope? And yet you do - you are disabled yourself, you are raising difficult child 3 with his autism, you've done a lot with your older son too, I feel guilty now about complaining about my aching joints."</p><p>I tell these people to complain to me all they want and not feel guilty - what I deal with is what I deal with. Would I cope with their aching joints? I have no idea. And maybe they'd cope much better with my life.</p><p></p><p>We never know. But we should NEVER compare. This is a very important lesson.</p><p></p><p>Kjs, from what you say you probably also know this. But your husband is not only using comparison, he's competing with you over it. This is, frankly, sick. It fits in with his denial at other times and determination to complain rather than do anything about it. And while you let him do this, he will keep doing it. What HE chooses to say and do, is his choice. But you don't have to take any of it on board. Don't take him a cold pack, or hot pack, unless he asks you nicely. Otherwise, ignore it. He chooses to allow these problems to continue untreated, so at some level this is what he wants. Don't take it away from him or even try to. HE must choose to put his pain down when HE is ready to. It is in our nature as women to try to nurture and mother, but don't do it with husband. You are his wife and not his mother, although I suspect a lot of his anger directed at you is the 'mother' side of you that he sees and deeply resents. So don't be his mother, in any way. Treat him as an adult, an independent person making his own choices and having to live with the consequences of them. Let him fetch his own analgesics. It will help him face up to the reality of his pain that much more quickly.</p><p></p><p>And when he complains about his pain (I include emotional pain here) then don't wear any comparison, don't buy into it at all, ignore it if you have to, but merely say to him, "You know what you have to do if it is so bad. Stop trying to be so macho and take control of your own health. Either do something about it, or stop whining."</p><p>And keep a spare set of pyjamas for yourself in your neighbour's campervan.</p><p></p><p>The only time you need to go carefully, is when he's been drinking. And I strongly suspect it's the pain that's pushing him to drink more - I've known too many people who use alcohol as an analgesic. Understandable, but foolish. There is a very good line from somewhere - "A doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient."</p><p></p><p>Concerning husband's family, if his uncle wanted him to make contact, and husband's attempts to do so were rejected, has uncle been told of this? It must have been so hurtful for husband to be rejected like this, and for this reason. The rejection may have genuinely come from his stepmother, or it could have come from a daughter being too protective (and perhaps possessive). </p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 57600, member: 1991"] Don't try to get him to open up. Just because you know that's what he needs, doesn't help. HE has to realise it and many people (not just men, although I'm tempted to say mostly men) never do. The behaviour that was modelled for him, was big, strong, tough. Abusive. THAT'S how to be a man. NEVER admit to weakness unless you can use it for emotional blackmail - a sort of, "Don't you complain to me, I put up with far worse than you do." As women, we tend to talk more, we talk to resolve problems. Men are almost the opposite - to a lot of men, talking about it makes it more real and therefore more of a problem. I know this sounds sexist, I'm sorry, but there it is. There are always exceptions to the rule but the trend is there. It's a bloke thing. husband used to do it. he'd talk to me, say he was worried about this or that, medically, and ask me to make an appointment to see the doctor. Then he would cancel because he felt better. This happened over and over. Then he would talk to me again about how tired he felt, or how much his joints hurt, or whatever. So I would say, "If you're worried, see the doctor. I'm not a doctor, what do you want me to do? You have my sympathy but I can't fix it." So once again, I made an appointment for him to see the doctor. I made it for a Saturday morning, so husband wouldn't cancel because he was too busy at work. husband still was concerned about his health and kept the appointment. I went too. That's how I know what happened next. We got in to see the doctor. "What seems to be the trouble?" the doctor asked. "I don't know, nothing, really. It's just Marg who's wanted me to come and see you, I feel fine, really." I could have killed him. As we drove home (the memory of the doctor's smug, condescending smile burning on my retina) I asked him why he had done that - why he made me look like a fool, purely for the sake of his precious ego. husband was shamefaced. "I really don't know why I did that," he apologised. "I just don't know - I should have told him about the tiredness and the joint pain - I know we need to find out what is wrong." I still refused to make any more appointments, though. I made sure husband made the appointment, and to ensure he did, any time husband tried to talk to me about not feeling well, I replied with, "You know what to do. Don't ask me to fix it. Don't complain, and then do nothing." That was quite a few years ago and we still don't know what is wrong, apart from a hereditary tendency to early arthritis, but he DID 'fess up to the doctor for which I was grateful. Since then, whenever someone repeatedly complains to me about their health but never does anything about it, I get to a point where I tell them I am not buying into their little drama. "Either stop complaining, or do something." They can't have it both ways. Like you, I will help out if someone has pain - want a cold compress? A hot one? But I offer no help if they're only going to use their pain as a weapon, or a competitive tool. I only care when the problem is genuine. And on the point of comparison - I learned, back when I was doing a lot of volunteer work for a charity, that it is wrong to compare your situation with someone else's. People still do it with me - they say, "Goodness, how can you cope? And yet you do - you are disabled yourself, you are raising difficult child 3 with his autism, you've done a lot with your older son too, I feel guilty now about complaining about my aching joints." I tell these people to complain to me all they want and not feel guilty - what I deal with is what I deal with. Would I cope with their aching joints? I have no idea. And maybe they'd cope much better with my life. We never know. But we should NEVER compare. This is a very important lesson. Kjs, from what you say you probably also know this. But your husband is not only using comparison, he's competing with you over it. This is, frankly, sick. It fits in with his denial at other times and determination to complain rather than do anything about it. And while you let him do this, he will keep doing it. What HE chooses to say and do, is his choice. But you don't have to take any of it on board. Don't take him a cold pack, or hot pack, unless he asks you nicely. Otherwise, ignore it. He chooses to allow these problems to continue untreated, so at some level this is what he wants. Don't take it away from him or even try to. HE must choose to put his pain down when HE is ready to. It is in our nature as women to try to nurture and mother, but don't do it with husband. You are his wife and not his mother, although I suspect a lot of his anger directed at you is the 'mother' side of you that he sees and deeply resents. So don't be his mother, in any way. Treat him as an adult, an independent person making his own choices and having to live with the consequences of them. Let him fetch his own analgesics. It will help him face up to the reality of his pain that much more quickly. And when he complains about his pain (I include emotional pain here) then don't wear any comparison, don't buy into it at all, ignore it if you have to, but merely say to him, "You know what you have to do if it is so bad. Stop trying to be so macho and take control of your own health. Either do something about it, or stop whining." And keep a spare set of pyjamas for yourself in your neighbour's campervan. The only time you need to go carefully, is when he's been drinking. And I strongly suspect it's the pain that's pushing him to drink more - I've known too many people who use alcohol as an analgesic. Understandable, but foolish. There is a very good line from somewhere - "A doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient." Concerning husband's family, if his uncle wanted him to make contact, and husband's attempts to do so were rejected, has uncle been told of this? It must have been so hurtful for husband to be rejected like this, and for this reason. The rejection may have genuinely come from his stepmother, or it could have come from a daughter being too protective (and perhaps possessive). Marg [/QUOTE]
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