It seems so SUDDEN

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Imgoingtofixthis, Jan 12, 2009.

  1. Imgoingtofixthis

    Imgoingtofixthis New Member

    Help! Anyone!

    I always knew something was not quite right, but could never get anyone to confirm it. He was language delayed and really didn't speak at all until 2 or 2.5. he was a heavy drooler and started some speech therapy at 3. He had no interest in letters at all and would really resist when we tried to get him to look at them. He is very good at math. He didn't seem to have a lot of friends, but his Montessori preschool didn't have a lot of boys in his class his age.

    We moved him to public kindergarten so that he would be force fed some phonics and letters and he would have more boys his age in his class.
    My son was progressing (fairly) well until just recently. Reading and writing was still very tough, but he did make a few more friends. Not a lot, but a few. He is a very big, physical and athletic kid and his situation is made worse by the fact that he outweighs all the kids in his class by 20 lbs. When he roughhouses, he can really hurt someone, so I am always cautioning him about this.

    First grade rolled around this year and things were a little bumpy but not bad. Reading was still a big issue, as was attitude in the class about reading. A couple of conferences with the school and we decided that a private tutor was the way to go. His reading is better, but in the last month, his behavior has taken a really bad turn. Suddenly, he has started to really defy and resist many requests. A simple request of "Brush your teeth" is met with "NO!, SHUT UP!". Lots of aggressive bumps and hitting. Like I said, he was never a perfect child, but he was never THIS. At first, we were really saddened and shocked by his behavior and now we are just OVER IT.

    I'm still stunned by the seemingly sudden onset. Has anybody else seen this? He just turned 7 in November. Is this just a phase? We have read "The Explosive Child" and "What Your Defiant Child is Trying To Tell You". Frankly, I would be exhausted by all the bucket A, B and C stuff. I'm more inclined to a firm line followed by relevant consequences and loss of priviledges, a la The Defiant Child.

    Any comments appreciated.
  2. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    I've seen the opposite in my son. He went from acting like you say your son does to an absolute angel literally overnight in January 2005. It lasted 4 months and disappeared as quickly as it appeared. We still don't know what caused either.

    Tho we have had short bouts of the "good behavior" again since, it has never been as profound or as long as that one. We may get a week here and there, more often, a day. We don't know what triggers it either way.

    We tried stern parenting with our son. It just made the issue worse. His teacher at his last school was the same way. After 18 months of stern, he was going to blows with her nearly every day and she threw him out of school.

    It was really hard adjusting to Explosive Child (Easy Child) methods, but it was our lifesaver. It really goes against the grain as far as what one typically thinks of with regard to parenting, so I understand your position. You have to find what works for you, but I encourage you to stick with one or the other for a while and back up and regroup if it isn't working for you. They all take time and patience.

    Does your son have any diagnoses?

    Ps - sorry to be so rude. Welcome to the site! That should be first, not last!
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Has this child ever been evaluated by a Neurologist?

    How are his social skills with peers? His eye contact? How are his fine and gross motor skills? Does he have any obsessive interests? Did he play with toys correctly or does he dismantle them or line them up. Does he talk very intelligently like a "Little Professor?"

    He sounds like he could be on the autism spectrum (maybe Aspergers). I would want it checked out, and you won't get that at school or from a therapist or pediatrician.

    by the way, welcome :)
  4. Imgoingtofixthis

    Imgoingtofixthis New Member

    To answer the questions, no he does not have what I would call a firm diagnosis. The pediatrician's questionairre would have him borderline ADHD and truly ODD. A year ago I probably wouldn't have listed him as either.

    Right now, from all I have read...he is truly ODD and he has not seen a neurologist. He himself will tell you he has anger issues.

    He does pretty well with his peers. Eye contact is Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) like behaviors. His ability to focus on tough tasks that require concentration and things that don't come easy is almost non existent. So I guess the ADHD is really there. We tried some medication on the advice on the Pediatrician and the Ritalin 10mg was "okay", improved impulse control, hitting, bad mouth, etc. The Focalin 10mg made him quite "strange" and the rebound effect made the ODD really, really bad.

    So. can this ODD really appear this suddenly or was I asleep at the wheel and missing all the clues? Is the increased curriculum of 1st grade working him too hard, wrecking his self esteem and causing the ODD to surface?

    As I said, he is a little behind on the reading, although the tutoring is helping. He is quite good at math.

    Please help. Meeting with the psyhcologist tomorrow...should I be seeing a Neurologist first? What can they do?


  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Well, the majority of us here believe that ODD doesn't exist alone. It sounds like he could use an evaluation by a neuropsychologist (that's different than a psychologist or a neurologist and is really quite intensive and in my opinion very good). That's what I'd recommend. He sounds like his development was a bit atypical and if it were my kid I'd want to check it out. In general, ODD behavior seems to be due to frustration in our kids--I'd say most of our kids qualify as ODD, but that isn't the major problem. A neuropsychologist can uncover problems other professionals miss due to the nature of the testing. in my opinion it's best to look at all possibilities and see what comes up because it's easier to take care of problems when a child is young than when they get older. Trust me, been there/done that. I'd be looking for Learning Disability (LD)'s too...things beyond ADHD/ODD. My son was first diagnosed as ADHD/ODD, but stims made him mean and aggressive...that wasn't his biggest problem. I wish they'd have found it earlier, but he's doing well now. Anyhooooo others will be along with thier opinions.
  6. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Hi and Welcome! I am glad you found us but sorry you need us.

    I am going to be blunt. I think the ODD diagnosis is garbage. it describes behaviors, but does NOTHING to tell you what is causing the behaviors. Until you know the cause, you can't start to repair things. I think your son should be fully tested for neurological problems, and tested by a neuropsychologist to figure out what is really going on. He should be checked for learning disabilities and any other problem you can think of.

    MANY, if not most of us started with an adhd and odd diagnosis. And we found that when we discovered what was really going on and got whatever supports/accomodations were needed, well, the ODD behavior disappeared.

    I hope you can get full testing for your son without too much hassle, and that the testing shows what he is going through. Kids don't just suddenly have anger issues. there is a reason.

    Also, The Explosive Child seems complex at first. but it really does help, especially with aggressive children. It lets you have them help find the solutions, and that really helps. I also like the Love and Logic parenting books, you might find them helpful. you can learn more about them at .

    Again, Welcome, and I hope you stick around!
  7. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    I agree with Susie. My opinion (and it is just MY opinion) is that ODD is a catch all diagnosis most of the time. I also agree with MWM that a neuropsychology evaluation is the way to go. Can't hurt to start with the psychologist though.

    Welcome to the board, by the way. You have found a soft place to land.
  8. Imgoingtofixthis

    Imgoingtofixthis New Member

    well, as luck would have it (NOT), pick up from school today was not pleasant. First, he had to deliver a note to a playdate's parents for getting mad at them and telling them to shut up. He was very unwilling to do it but I felt that it was important that he rectify some of the damage he had done and own up to it. I'm not sure that the note did that job but I'm not sure that telling him he was wrong in speaking to an adult that way is getting through.

    Next I was summoned by the teacher. He's not doing his work, especially the reading. He refuses to do it. He also got two time outs today and was angry all day with the teacher. Up until today, he was getting good reports at school and from playdate parents but was absolutely horrible at home intermittently. Yesterday (on the playdate) and today at school that all seemed to change and now he is acting out there as well.

    I'm at my wits end. I hate to say it but I am hating my life right now. he is making my life a living hell. I'm socially isolated because I can't trust him in any social situations. He is out of control. I'll be looking into both a neuropsychologist and learnind disorders. I'd really like to hear a success story from someone who has gone that route so I can build up some hope.

  9. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator


    I'm wondering if anxiety about school and his ability to perform could be fueling your difficult child's oppositional behaviors. Anxiety can manifest as avoidance, anger, inattention and defiance. Anxiety can simmer at the surface and then explode with an event that triggers it. In your case, a learning disability in reading and increased academic demands could have triggered this bout of anxiety.

    Are there any mental health issues (like anxiety or depression) in the family tree? Does any of this resonate with you?
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hey, here's a success story.
    My son got a neuropsychologist evaluation after years and years of trouble getting his problems nailed down. They diagnosed him as having mild autism, and the interventions began. He got Occupational Therapist (OT)/PT/social skills and an aide to teach him how to take notes. He is very literal and not good with the "big picture." He has learned how to take notes, to meld in with other kids and is pretty good at controlling his anger. This is a huge step for where he came from. He also now gets good grades, although he is classified as Learning Disability (LD) (learning disabled). He is now 15 and a more mild-mannered, compliant and beloved boy you wouldn't know. And he tantrummed and raged with the best of them. See a neuropsychologist. There is help for everything. I'm sure there is help for your precious little one. (((Hugs)))
  11. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Hi, Imgoingtofix this, welcome.
    My son's anger, in general, is much better lately. We changed his diet, and that helped a lot. He is on medications, but we have also done a lot of behavior modification. I had to change a lot of my own behaviors in the way I dealt with-him. He is so literal, that I assumed he was always being a brat, and splitting hairs to annoy me. I was wrong. He's Aspie Lite. He really has to have the last word and thinks differently than I do. Very differently.
    I agree with-others here, the ODD is a symptom, not a cause. I also agree that your son could be having some anxiety issues.
    One thing I had to learn to do was find my son doing something right. Since he was so loud, wild, crazy and rude all the time, it was like Mission Impossible, but I finally found some minor things, and that really helped change things around.
    Sometimes it would be something small like keeping his voice down. I'd reward him with some TV.
    When I used to put him in Silent Time Out in the car, I'd steam all the way home, then send him to his room, too. Now, it's just Time Out. When we get home, I'll say, "Thank you for being quiet in the car. You did a good job. Please write I AM SORRY FOR BEING RUDE, 20X on a piece of paper, and then you can play on the computer."
    I needed to reward him, and quickly. I had no idea that he really couldn't comprehend long-term punishments.
    He's 12 now, and just learning to deal with-weeks and months.

    Having your son deliver the note of apology was a good idea. I would tell him that he did the right thing and that I'm proud of him. It will hurt your teeth to say it, since he was rude to begin with, but you've got to. There's got to be an immediate cause and effect.
    There is a future. Really.
  12. Imgoingtofixthis

    Imgoingtofixthis New Member

    I definitely agree that school anxiety is triggering his problems. When he was 2.5, we had him evaluated by the public school early intervention and they found nothing to worry about other than a speech delay and his drooling. When he was 5, we had him tested for kindergarten readiness since I had concerns. They found nothing to be alarmed about. My concerns persisted and now he is speaking out loud and clear and DEMANDING HELP with his defiant behavior. In his kindergarten year he used to cry and say he doesn't learn like other kids and doesn't remember things like other kids. He KNOWS there is something different about him and he is trying to tell me.

    Today, when he started crying in his time out. I came in and asked why he was crying and he said that "everybody had problems and he has problems reading" I told him I wanted to help but he said he doesn't want any help. So he is painfully aware of his issues but absolutely resistant to letting us help or putting in the work to overcome them.

    I'll try to find a neuropsychologist. Does anybody know if they are covered under insurance?

    Thanks. :confused:
  13. maril

    maril New Member

    My heart aches for your young son, as I am sure yours does. At the very least, it is an advantage that he is able to communicate so well with you; however, I understand the challenges he faces must be very frustrating and painful for him and also for you to watch him go through.

    I have no experience with a neuropsychologist but, in retrospect, after hearing suggestions here on these boards stressing the importance of an evaluation by a neuropsychologist, I wish I would have had that route suggested to me in the past for my difficult child; maybe could have had a definitive diagnosis by now.

    Good luck to you. Hugs to you and your son. Let us know how things go.
  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't rely on the school district. They didn't catch anything with my son either. I'd go to a private neuropsychologist ASAP. Something is "off" and they aren't catching it. His reading problem combined with his early drooling and speech delay could actually be significant. Please help him now, it's better than later. Good luck :)
  15. Nancy423

    Nancy423 do I have to be the mom?

    my difficult child landed in a "behavioral issue" summer camp at the psychiatric hospital. They told me she might be frustrated due to an Learning Disability (LD) and anxiety instead of just behavioral problems. It's entirely possible (but it's not my difficult child's answer). My school district also didn't find anything of significance after "testing" either. Well, I had an outside evaluation by a psychiatrist and they found anxiety and mood issues! Meanwhile she was falling more and more behind in 1st grade which is why they did all their testing.

    In second grade they put her in a transitional classroom (less kids, instruction is taylored to your child) and then finally placed in LDSC in 3rd grade until now. She did finally learn to read in 3rd grade but it was such a challenge for her.

    If the school district isn't finding anything but your insticts are screaming - go get an independent evaluation. I havne't personally been to a neuropsychologist (waiting for school to submit stuff) so I can't give you any opinions. but bringing reports in from an evaluation, asking for a meeting might steer things in the right direction.

    Welcome and good luck to you!
  16. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?


    we had to do some fighting with the ins to get the neuropsyche covered, but they finally did. And they aren't easy to find. You might start at a university hopsital.

    Also, Lost At School is another book by Ross Green I'd encourage you to check out. It gives a lot of first hand accounts of collaborative problem solving and the how and why of how it works. My mom, who couldn't always *get* the basket system, says this book makes much more sense to her.

    And like Terry, my son can't comprehend 10 minutes from now, much less any other time period.
  17. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I can't help you with insurance - we're in Australia and we can generally get a lot of help, if not all, covered under our nationally organised health insurance. We do have hoops to jump through, though, and finding the right people can be very frustrating.

    Your description of your son and his problems is very similar to our experiences with difficult child 3 (and to a lesser extent, difficult child 1). by the way, difficult child 1 is now married (Nov 08) to a lovely girl who I suspect has an Aspie mother (and hence understands him instinctively, even if she doesn't know why).

    It has been put to you bluntly at times, but I increasingly agree that the label of ODD never seems to really help, it only seems to cause more distress. And yes, I beleive that in general, there is usually found to be an underlynig disorder which has been the main problem. Deal with the main problem and a lot of the ODD issues go away. However, the longer the ODD habits continue, the longer they take to go.

    A big part of the problem for me, is the term itself - Oppositional Defiant Disorder implies that the child KNOWS they are being oppositional but are CHOOSING to be defiant, out of sheer cussedness and orneryness. And the more we see our kids this way, the more resentful and angry we feel with them and they pick up on this and will behave worse as a result. This is a negative feedback loop, aka "self-fulfilling prophecy".

    We do have a success story, but it has been a big struggle at times. School was the worst struggle, although we did have times when things worked well.

    We do use "Explosive Child" methods, but if you're having trouble with 3rd edition, go have a look through the 2nd edition. I have found that 3rd edition is quite different, although I like it some of the ideas are very new. The way I interpreted 2nd edition worked well for us, and I haven't found the exact same things in 3rd edition (although I do like 3rd as well - it's just different). Have a look at the discussion on the book in the sticky in Early Childhood. Much of that seems to me to be based on 2nd edition.

    Back to what worked.

    1) Try and get a diagnosis, and with what you describe it really does sound like Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) in some form needs to be given serious consideration. To help you here, go to and do their online Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) questionnaire. It's not officially diagnostic (not allowed to be) but you can print the results to take with you to a specialist. Do it anyway, print it anyway, even if he scores normal.

    2) The school district will also offer to help with diagnosis, but frankly they can only give you an approximation. Like many of us, the initial diagnosis I got from the school district was Bad Parenting - according to the school counsellor, I was a pushy parent with a mentally retarded child (difficult child 1). It took six months of my hunting around for an urgent assessment, for him to get a diagnosis of severe ADHD. Another 8 years before he got a diagnosis of Asperger's.
    Where the school can help though - is with getting support funding. This pays for an aide in class, for anything else the school may need to handle your child (such as conferences, training courses, special equipment etc). We had an aide for difficult child 3 for most of the day, four days a week.

    3) Something I strongly recommend - documentation and communication. We began a "Communnication Book" which travelled in difficult child 3's school bag. On the cover I wrote, "parents, teachers, friends and anyone else - please feel free to write in this if you see or experience anything we all need to know about."
    I wrote in it (on the computer; I would then print it out, cut it out and paste it in) and then put it in difficult child 3's bag. His teacher and/or aide were to take the book out, read anything relevant and add their own feedback. Doing this every day was important, to maintain good communication and to help us all stay on top of any emerging problems. At times the teacher tried to cut back on it, to "wean me off" as she put it, only to find problems getting out of hand. This Book replaces many of the after-school classroom-steps conferences. BUT - it should NEVER be the child's responsibility to make sure the book is in the bag, or to give the book to anyone. This may seem silly, but the book is too important to then be used as a training tool for a child who is badly organised.

    4) Chances are your son is highly anxious, made worse by a stressful environment. Knowing he is struggling with his reading isn't helping. difficult child 3 would deliberately avoid any tasks hefoundchallenging. So would difficult child 1. An example with difficult child 1 - in Australian primary (elementary) schools, swimming lessons are compulsory. Every spring, entire grades (spanning three consecutive years at least) will spend two weeks (or more) having daily, half-day swimming lessons. I remember going through this when I was in primary school; they've been going on for decades. But difficult child 1 was so good at quietly slipping to the back of the queue, that he would come home from his daily half-day lessons with his swimsuit completely dry! That takes talent and high intelligence (belying the initial "mental retardation" label he got).
    Never underestimate the lengths to which your son can go, in trying to avoid what is painful for him.

    5) We all learn in different ways. I explained to difficult child 3, that autism is like computer operating systems. Some people have Mac brains and others have easy child brains. You can't tell, when the document comes off the printer, whether it was typed up on a Mac or a easy child, but the computer instructions to each kind of computer are very different, you can't expect a Mac to function with easy child programming and vice versa.
    What I'm trying to say - your son may need to learn a different way. We certainly found with difficult child 3, that a lot of the stuff he learned in mainstream, was missed. He never took it on board, he never learned anything. Everything he learned, he learned it at home.

    difficult child 3 was hyperlexic, so in this I can't compare what you're going through. However, he didn't have the understanding he needed, that went with his early reading. It was simply symbols to him with no mental connection to meaning. He needed to learn in a way that normally wouldn't work - he needed to learn holistically.

    What works for other kids, to break the task up into little pieces and just deal with visuals, say, or just deal with sounds - disastrous for difficult child 3. He needed the whole lot, all at once, in an apparently senseless jumbpe. For example, difficult child 3 would watch DVDs with subtitles on and would pause, rewind, watch it again, then pause, rewind... over and over. Interestingly, another mildly autistic neighbour of ours did the same thing and his father said to me, "I worry about my son when he does this. It's mindless, there's nothing going on in his head, he just stares blankly."
    I explained to the dad (from my own observations of difficult child 3 when he used to do that), "Don'tworry. There is A LOT going on in that head. But he is trying to learn EVERYTHING all at once, that is why it is taking a lot longer. He has no good frame of reference for what he is learning, thanks to the language delay. Nobody can help him learn, better than he can help himself. So he is being creative and finding his own way to learn, that works for him. You have to let him do this."

    What they were doing, was reading the text, AS they listened to the sound of the text, AS they watched the action (context) and to make sure they "got it", they would rewind and watch it agian, in minute detail. Ofcourse this meant tey had it all memorised, but tey had it memorised with subtitles. I'm certain that with difficult child 3 and this friend of his, when they are spoken to they also 'see' the text in their minds, as subtitles.

    You may find he uses slabs of text from songs or from movies or form TV shows. He probably repeats pet phrases of yours or his teachers. They often go through a phase of repeating what you say, then answering. For example, "Woud you like some juice? Yes please."

    I do think the ODd label is badly getting in your way. You see your son obsessivley doing tings his way, andwhen you try to get cooperating he shouts at you to leave him alone.
    This is normal for Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), or for any kid who can't transition well. If tat kid happens to be really concentrating hard on what he's doing, he won't feel you can interrupt hi without him losing a lot of hwat he just worked on. You need to give them time to transition.

    What we found, was as difficult child 3 learned that we were going to help him transition, that we weren't going to stand there tapping our toes but instead we would wait until he saved his computer game or got to a point where he could pause it, then he became a lot more cooperaitve.

    They need to be in conrtrol. And where it's no skin off my nose, I let difficult child 3 have control. He is then more willing to give me control where it is right for me to have it.

    We need to change our parenting methods with these kids. The strict, over-controlling upbringing that most of us had, will trigger oppositional behaviour in Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) (or similar) kids. we have to get back to what our ultimate goals are - to have our children happy, productive, independent and functioning. If a kid is Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), chances are underneath it all he is intensely loyal, loving, law-abiding (as long as they are laws he understands) and above all, wants to please and wants to KNOW.

    That give us leverage, as parents. And with what we have achieved with difficult child 3, I think I can safely say we have success.

    He's far from perfect, he still needs careful handling. But it's second nature now in our house. We have problems when other family members come in and try to stick their oar in.

    difficult child 3's current school placement is Distance Education, a form of state-based correspondence. The teachers are supportive, he has an IEP, he works form home at his own pace and I supervise and support where needed. He is confident enough to pick up the phone and ring his teachers. Due to te nature of this school they do have a lot of kids with a range of needs, from other kids with autism or Asperger's, or kids who are performers or sports-minded and being professionally trained, through to kids in hospital for long-term health problems. Or kids whose parents travel. Some correspondence kids are geographically isolated, such as "School of the Air" kids. It IS a mainstream program, academically. And difficult child 3 is doing amazingly well, which we are grateful for considering how badly he did to begin with.

    With learning phonics, we bought a phonics desk from Leapfrog. It came with cards which slotted in, and the desk itself had magnetic letters which, if pressed, woud "say their name" but when placed in a card (for a particular word) and pressed, would "say their sound" in that word. Then when the letters were all placed, the whole word would be said. There were pictures on the card of the object also. Extra letters (such as spare vowels, and diphthongs (ch, or ph, or th), or "silent E" went inside the desk.

    There is hope. Lots of it. When I look back to where we were, and look at where we are now - absolutely amazing.

  18. aeroeng

    aeroeng Mom of Three

    Since my skills a knowledge on anger and behavior issues are weak, I'll chime in on where my expertise is: Reading issues.

    In third grade I could not read or spell anything. Not even simple words like "it", "at" or "the". My teacher said I was probably retarded and would be lucky if I ever made it to a forth grade level (in my life). I was given tutors, but not ones that were trained to deal with reading disorders. I had no self esteem and began the early stages of self mutalization disorder. Mom did not quit looking and fighting for me until she found a solution. Part 1) An effective reading program called Orton Gillingham. Part 2) a child physiatrist that understood the effects of having a reading issue in a public school. Today I have a BS in aerospace engineering, an MS in technology management and a job I love (I still struggle with spelling, but write well for an engineer).

    All three of my son's inherited some level of reading difficulties, but because I knew what to look for and got them early (and appropriate) training they never manifested into behavior issues that are extremely common with kids with dyslexia. Dyslexia I can deal with, I came here because Son #2 developed additional anger and behavior issues that are clearly not related to reading problems.

    Kids with learning differences can not learn to read in a traditional environment. Because everyone else does, they often become frustrated and this turns into behavior problems. I imploded in hurting myself. Many explode out. These types of behavior problems are different them most of the issue posted by group, because they are not chemical or physical. They are normal reactions to adverse pressures brought on by the school system.

    The advice below is very good. I would add to it, that if his reading issues continue consider checking out the International Dyslexia Association ( They have some really good information on how to manage reading problems. A tutor is good, but if they are not trained in one of the effective programs it won't work well and only adds to the fustration.

    The good news is that dyslexia is a whole lot easier to deal with then the behavior issue found here. There is research that shows what programs are effective. (Give me a reading problem over the ODD any day!)
  19. Janna

    Janna New Member

    I wouldn't jump to any quick diagnosis conclusions. There could be underlying issues that you really don't think of until you've seen someone that knows what they're really looking for.
    My son is Autistic, and makes eye contact. He is high functioning. He's not a tippy toe walker, a hand flapper, and he doesn't act like Rain Man. But, he has many developmental delays and inabilities that come with Autistic children. He is 12 now, but when he was younger, he displayed MANY (I mean MANY LOL) ODD type symptoms, and was diagnosis'ed with that (along with many other things).
    I wouldn't rely on a school psychologist to do testing. Yes, neuropsychs are covered under many insurances. You could start with calling your bigger hospitals or doing a search for neuropsychs in your area.
    Many times, children with underlying issues display these ODD symptoms because they are unable to comprehend or express. For example, in my son's case, if something is not going the way HE thinks it is SUPPOSED to be (his thinking is very black and white) he will become increasingly frustrated, which leads to agitation, which leads to a shut down or defiance until the issue is resolved. Many times it takes patience and dedication to process with him until he understands the situation and is able to move on.
    I am very sorry you feel so hopeless. I'd like to tell you that there are better days ahead, but unfortunately, it takes some elbow grease and alot of hard effort to get there.
    Good luck.
  20. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    I am also a dyslexic ambadextrious (oh...sp) and had a heck of a time learning to read and spell...nightmare...fortunately my Dad didn't learn what was HIS promblem untill college...he was a math wiz. Reading, nope.
    What I did with my boy was read to him for hours everyday. hours. What he learned was amazing. He learned to listen. And much of what he learned was retained.
    it is not uncommon for boys to show reading at age nine and after. One of my freinds son just started reading in a big way at ten. My son would read for his teachers at school but not for me (he did not want me to stop reading to him)
    Getting him tested for IQ...looking at how he IS learning...was a big help for my child.
    Anger is the coupling of sadness and fear. Anger is a the cry for support. It is the esteem erosion that hurts the core of our children and it is no small injury.
    Developing the social oppertunities is vital, Mom. Do not hender your boy by sheltering him from the age appropriate learning steps that are the foundation of his freindships and confidence in his school life.
    My son was rough too. Plus he was a biter. That was SOOOO terrible for me. I am laughing now, but at the time it was HUGE. Lucky one day he tangled with another boy and as I scrambled to intervene the other boys mother put her hand on my arm and said "Please do not stop him. My son does that to other children "
    We stood there together, two Mothers who had never met or spoken to each other befor completely uncomfortable while our two boys LEARNED SOMETHING FROM ONE ANOTHER. Something words alone do not do enough to teach practicably.
    And those two boys played together many times and we mothers had a unique relationship twined around these "issues" our sons brought to the picnic.
    It is tricky with children that young to know how much is environmental, developemental, and wether it is something that is going to disappear with developemental maturation.
    Providing the support so that you are giving the learner input that he can then show as evidence of how he does learn wether he is diagnosible or not with something ultimately it is the childs strengths, not weakness, that will carry him through his journey.
    have you contacted SEARCH about the testing you feel is appropriate for your child? Also you can go to the schools office and ask the principle for the form so you can request the testing. The principle may surprise you. Good educators want their students to achieve acamdemic excellance. If a trouble area is detected early in the education of a child the supplemental services to achieve that excellance is appropriate. Wether your child has a diagnosis of a disorder or is "just' having a learning issue. It is about proceeding based on evidenced testing.
    What IS the problem is the center piece to supporting the solutions.